Amazon and Predator Capitalism

[cletus1]

Does Amazon use predatory business practices to put competitors out of business? Does Jeff Bezos, Amazon's CEO treat his employees unfairly? Lots of what I have read suggests that he does.

If you buy products online like I do, you have probably noticed that no matter what you are looking for, Amazon is usually the first place you find to buy it. I buy from Amazon, but I think I am going to start treating them the way I do Walmart. I only buy from Walmart as a last resort or when I break weak and have to have some cheap thing, a very rare occurrence.

Here is an excerpt from a review of Brad Stone's book The Everything Store from the New York Times:

..."Well, Bezos is the god in Stone’s story, and definitely one of the vengeful and punishing sort, at least when it comes to those who have worked for him, those he has competed against and those who thought, mistakenly, they were in some sort of partnership with him. (That leaves his family, whom we’re told he loves dearly.)

Stone obviously admires his subject, but it’s hard to tell if he likes him. For that matter, it’s hard to tell if anybody likes him. Worth $27 billion, Bezos still makes employees pay for parking and for a time posted private ambulances outside warehouses during heat waves instead of ponying up for extra air-conditioners. It comes across loud and clear just how painful working anywhere near Bezos seems to have been over the years, despite halfhearted attempts by employees to recast a total lack of empathy as some sort of trick of leadership: one of his “gifts,” they say, is “to drive and motivate his employees without getting overly attached to them personally.” Is that a gift? It may be in actual war, but I’ll bet soldiers in the Middle East get more than free Gatorade and an extra 10 minutes of break time a day when the temperature tops 100 degrees..."

The complete review: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/03/books/...d=all&_r=0


Wonky, you like to read. I encourage you to read the two articles in the Hightower Lowdown I linked below. I have read them and find that they present a compelling argument for us to not like Bezos.

Conservatives will probably worship him. TVguy will say something like, "if the employees don't like working there they should quit," and all will be right in our little RVF world.

http://www.hightowerlowdown.org/node/3724#.VCrXJvldXn8

http://www.hightowerlowdown.org/node/3764#.VCrYnPldXn8

[tvguy]

IF employees don't like working there they should quit

I don't do Walmart either Clete. I like Amazon. I bought a remote control helicopter that didn't work.The return shipping was paid for by them plus a full refund.
I didn't read your link yet but I assume Amazon has goons that break competitors legs and they have 6 year old kids working 16 hour shifts.

[GPnative]

I order my fair share of goods from Amazon, I admit I hadn't given much thought to the "behind the scenes", I was just happy to be getting products I needed at a price I liked. The links you posted were pretty eye opening.

[Valuesize]

I usually buy at Amazon when I've been to at least two local stores looking for something I need and don't want to waste more gas and effort hunting for it.

[Wonky3]

I usually buy at Amazon when I've been to at least two local stores looking for something I need and don't want to waste more gas and effort hunting for it.

Thanks Clete.
Information is always valuable.
I don't know much about "Hightower", so can't make judgments about their "cred" but this story has made the rounds in other major publications.
No doubt Amazon is a lousy place to work.
Problem is, where is a good place to work? Retail employers over the years have been racing to the bottom in terms of how they treat their people. And WE, are largely responsible because we have all been motivated by price, not considering the conditions the employees work in.
Buy local? I like the idea. But talk with clerks in any local retail outfit and you will find conditions more deplorable than one might imagine. (I talked with a server recently who was working a double shift. The person who follows her had a sick child and could not report. The server who works the double shift gets NO premium pay and had no choice but to say or lose the job)

I'm was a 35 year Union member. I had excellent working conditions, and valued not only my job but the company I worked for. Those days are gone.

So tell me Clete, when you went in yesterday to buy that coffee maker, did you find a retail store where the employees have good working conditions? Not if you went to Freddy's as you suggested you might. "Freddy" has been fighting with the UFCW for ages, harassing it's Union reps and lowering working conditions at every opportunity.

The problem, in the main, is that WE, working people, have allowed folks like Bezos to undermine our power of collective bargaining to erode.

The Service Employee's International Union (SEIU) is gaining strength and may make changes in these areas. Let's hope so.

So Clete, until then what do you suggest we do? Where do you shop for that coffee maker and be sure that the workers are being treated well?

[cletus1]

I usually buy at Amazon when I've been to at least two local stores looking for something I need and don't want to waste more gas and effort hunting for it.

Thanks Clete.
Information is always valuable.
I don't know much about "Hightower", so can't make judgments about their "cred" but this story has made the rounds in other major publications.
No doubt Amazon is a lousy place to work.
Problem is, where is a good place to work? Retail employers over the years have been racing to the bottom in terms of how they treat their people. And WE, are largely responsible because we have all been motivated by price, not considering the conditions the employees work in.
Buy local? I like the idea. But talk with clerks in any local retail outfit and you will find conditions more deplorable than one might imagine. (I talked with a server recently who was working a double shift. The person who follows her had a sick child and could not report. The server who works the double shift gets NO premium pay and had no choice but to say or lose the job)

I'm was a 35 year Union member. I had excellent working conditions, and valued not only my job but the company I worked for. Those days are gone.

So tell me Clete, when you went in yesterday to buy that coffee maker, did you find a retail store where the employees have good working conditions? Not if you went to Freddy's as you suggested you might. "Freddy" has been fighting with the UFCW for ages, harassing it's Union reps and lowering working conditions at every opportunity.

The problem, in the main, is that WE, working people, have allowed folks like Bezos to undermine our power of collective bargaining to erode.

The Service Employee's International Union (SEIU) is gaining strength and may make changes in these areas. Let's hope so.

So Clete, until then what do you suggest we do? Where do you shop for that coffee maker and be sure that the workers are being treated well?

Did you read the Hightower articles? Look up Jim Hightower. I personally trust his reporting, but if you have doubts you can find the same information elsewhere.

When I compare Fred Meyer and other retailers to Amazon, I clearly got the feeling that those companies are very different than Amazon. So, now I am considering your view. Is it that if employees of other companies are fighting for benefits then it's all the same? Or that employees are seldom happy, so a little more or a little less fairness doesn't matter?

I found the articles compelling. Read them or whatever. It's not all good.

The attitude that if employees are unhappy they should go elsewhere lends itself to employee abuse and exploitation. Not that you think that, but I now suspect you. You will not be invited to the Power to the People Concert and Harvest Fest till you get hour mind right.

[Valuesize]

You will not be invited to the Power to the People Concert and Harvest Fest till you get hour mind right.

[Wonky3]

You will not be invited to the Power to the People Concert and Harvest Fest till you get hour mind right.

Oh sure, V/Size, laugh your butt off. Won't be so funny when he excludes YOU from the next hot event.

I DID read the Hightower thing. I mean after all the guy was some kind of Ag big shot in Texas and so ...well, whatever; He's a "progressive" and so good in my book.

And I had read an blistering article some time ago in The Atlantic and the author basically said Bezos is weird and a jerk. And yes, Amazon is among those who treat employees very badly. (But nothing like The Tyson chicken outfit treats their people).

I only attempted to expand the topic a bit and point out that we have been in a slide now for a long time in which employees in many, many, outfits are being treated less than good. So many outfits now that limit hours to less than 40 hours per week to avoid paying benefits. etc, etc, etc.

And you did not respond to my question Clete. Okay, I won't shop at Amazon. But WHERE do I shop at a place where employees are treated fairly?

And I WANT to go to the Power to the People and Concert and Harvest Fest! I do! I do! (Can I wear my tie dye shirt and my peace button?)

[Tiamat]

I read a blog once, more than a year ago, from an Amazon employee talking about how insane and impossible it was to be a floor employee at Amazon. That's all I have to contribute.

[Wonky3]

I read a blog once, more than a year ago, from an Amazon employee talking about how insane and impossible it was to be a floor employee at Amazon. That's all I have to contribute.

And a darn fine contribution it was!

[cletus1]

I order my fair share of goods from Amazon, I admit I hadn't given much thought to the "behind the scenes", I was just happy to be getting products I needed at a price I liked. The links you posted were pretty eye opening.

Me too and I'll probably end up buying something there again, but now that I know a little more about the company and the man that runs it, I can be a more conscientious shopper. All that means is if I have a choice to buy what I need elsewhere at approximately the same price, I will.

I found the articles eye opening as well. I had no idea that there were people even looking into how Amazon treats it's employees or business competitors.

[cletus1]

You will not be invited to the Power to the People Concert and Harvest Fest till you get hour mind right.

Oh sure, V/Size, laugh your butt off. Won't be so funny when he excludes YOU from the next hot event.

I DID read the Hightower thing. I mean after all the guy was some kind of Ag big shot in Texas and so ...well, whatever; He's a "progressive" and so good in my book.

And I had read an blistering article some time ago in The Atlantic and the author basically said Bezos is weird and a jerk. And yes, Amazon is among those who treat employees very badly. (But nothing like The Tyson chicken outfit treats their people).

I only attempted to expand the topic a bit and point out that we have been in a slide now for a long time in which employees in many, many, outfits are being treated less than good. So many outfits now that limit hours to less than 40 hours per week to avoid paying benefits. etc, etc, etc.

And you did not respond to my question Clete. Okay, I won't shop at Amazon. But WHERE do I shop at a place where employees are treated fairly?

And I WANT to go to the Power to the People and Concert and Harvest Fest! I do! I do! (Can I wear my tie dye shirt and my peace button?)

You shop at locally owned stores when you can, and that way you help support your community. You also shop at places where employees are treated better than they are at Amazon. "Fairly" is a subjective term as you pointed out.

Here is an example of how I shop locally in Grants Pass: There is a store called Farmers and I purchase lumber and some building materials from them occasionally. Farmers sells plywood and other products cheaper than Home Depot and my money stays local. They can't compete on many other items so I get those things at Home Depot or some other place.

If I lived in Medford I would shop for groceries at Food For Less or another one of Sherms stores or WinCo. They are cheaper and better than Walmart Safeway and Albertson's. Anyway, that's my input. Do some research and try to shop where you think you can help out locally. Shop like a progressive. It ain't rocket science.

[Wonky3]

You will not be invited to the Power to the People Concert and Harvest Fest till you get hour mind right.

Oh sure, V/Size, laugh your butt off. Won't be so funny when he excludes YOU from the next hot event.

I DID read the Hightower thing. I mean after all the guy was some kind of Ag big shot in Texas and so ...well, whatever; He's a "progressive" and so good in my book.

And I had read an blistering article some time ago in The Atlantic and the author basically said Bezos is weird and a jerk. And yes, Amazon is among those who treat employees very badly. (But nothing like The Tyson chicken outfit treats their people).

I only attempted to expand the topic a bit and point out that we have been in a slide now for a long time in which employees in many, many, outfits are being treated less than good. So many outfits now that limit hours to less than 40 hours per week to avoid paying benefits. etc, etc, etc.

And you did not respond to my question Clete. Okay, I won't shop at Amazon. But WHERE do I shop at a place where employees are treated fairly?

And I WANT to go to the Power to the People and Concert and Harvest Fest! I do! I do! (Can I wear my tie dye shirt and my peace button?)

You shop at locally owned stores when you can, and that way you help support your community. You also shop at places where employees are treated better than they are at Amazon. "Fairly" is a subjective term as you pointed out.

Here is an example of how I shop locally in Grants Pass: There is a store called Farmers and I purchase lumber and some building materials from them occasionally. Farmers sells plywood and other products cheaper than Home Depot and my money stays local. They can't compete on many other items so I get those things at Home Depot or some other place.

If I lived in Medford I would shop for groceries at Food For Less or another one of Sherms stores or WinCo. They are cheaper and better than Walmart Safeway and Albertson's. Anyway, that's my input. Do some research and try to shop where you think you can help out locally. Shop like a progressive. It ain't rocket science.

All well and good.
I'm with you 100% about shopping locally when possible. For instance, I use Hubbard's in Medford as my "go to" Hardware store. Often I have to go to Lowe's because because Hubbard's stock is not as extensive. Still, in a sense Lowe's is "local".

And still...

That's not addressing the problem you first pointed out. The conditions at Amazon stink. Agreed. But as I wanted to point out, local workers often have conditions that are lousy also!

The plywood store you mentioned: The folks there have any benefits? Do they work 40 hour work weeks to assure a decent income? Mandatory overtime at straight pay? My guess is you don't know. And, should you got the front office and inquire they will give you the "bum's rush". I've talked with some of the clerk's at Hubbard's and they only raise their eyes to the sky and "have no comment".

Working folks need to somehow "band together" and form some kind of collective power because it's clear that as individuals there is little power to change conditions. Call it "Unions" if you want: Whatever, without some kind of collective power to negotiate with employers the "working person" is at the mercy of folks like those at Amazon.
And, even some Union members have the problem. Some Unions have been so gutted by lack of support by non-members that they have little power.

But I'm glad you raised the issue. We, as consumers, are at some point going to have to be prepared to pay a bit more if those who "serve us" have better working conditions. We should be aware, and try to support our "fellow workers" whenever possible.

[cletus1]

You will not be invited to the Power to the People Concert and Harvest Fest till you get hour mind right.

Oh sure, V/Size, laugh your butt off. Won't be so funny when he excludes YOU from the next hot event.

I DID read the Hightower thing. I mean after all the guy was some kind of Ag big shot in Texas and so ...well, whatever; He's a "progressive" and so good in my book.

And I had read an blistering article some time ago in The Atlantic and the author basically said Bezos is weird and a jerk. And yes, Amazon is among those who treat employees very badly. (But nothing like The Tyson chicken outfit treats their people).

I only attempted to expand the topic a bit and point out that we have been in a slide now for a long time in which employees in many, many, outfits are being treated less than good. So many outfits now that limit hours to less than 40 hours per week to avoid paying benefits. etc, etc, etc.

And you did not respond to my question Clete. Okay, I won't shop at Amazon. But WHERE do I shop at a place where employees are treated fairly?

And I WANT to go to the Power to the People and Concert and Harvest Fest! I do! I do! (Can I wear my tie dye shirt and my peace button?)

You shop at locally owned stores when you can, and that way you help support your community. You also shop at places where employees are treated better than they are at Amazon. "Fairly" is a subjective term as you pointed out.

Here is an example of how I shop locally in Grants Pass: There is a store called Farmers and I purchase lumber and some building materials from them occasionally. Farmers sells plywood and other products cheaper than Home Depot and my money stays local. They can't compete on many other items so I get those things at Home Depot or some other place.

If I lived in Medford I would shop for groceries at Food For Less or another one of Sherms stores or WinCo. They are cheaper and better than Walmart Safeway and Albertson's. Anyway, that's my input. Do some research and try to shop where you think you can help out locally. Shop like a progressive. It ain't rocket science.

All well and good.
I'm with you 100% about shopping locally when possible. For instance, I use Hubbard's in Medford as my "go to" Hardware store. Often I have to go to Lowe's because because Hubbard's stock is not as extensive. Still, in a sense Lowe's is "local".

And still...

That's not addressing the problem you first pointed out. The conditions at Amazon stink. Agreed. But as I wanted to point out, local workers often have conditions that are lousy also!

The plywood store you mentioned: The folks there have any benefits? Do they work 40 hour work weeks to assure a decent income? Mandatory overtime at straight pay? My guess is you don't know. And, should you got the front office and inquire they will give you the "bum's rush". I've talked with some of the clerk's at Hubbard's and they only raise their eyes to the sky and "have no comment".

Working folks need to somehow "band together" and form some kind of collective power because it's clear that as individuals there is little power to change conditions. Call it "Unions" if you want: Whatever, without some kind of collective power to negotiate with employers the "working person" is at the mercy of folks like those at Amazon.
And, even some Union members have the problem. Some Unions have been so gutted by lack of support by non-members that they have little power.

But I'm glad you raised the issue. We, as consumers, are at some point going to have to be prepared to pay a bit more if those who "serve us" have better working conditions. We should be aware, and try to support our "fellow workers" whenever possible.

I agree Wonk. We can't know how every company treats its employees, but I know how many do. I have friends and relatives that have worked at local retail stores like Fred Meyers, Walmart, Home Depot etc. So, I don't have to ask employees at the store. My wife also provides me a a lot of information on the wages and benefits paid to workers. So we can know more, but not all.

[Big Rock]

Yeah, I also like to use my iPad when I write about big companies who exploit their workers:

Worker Exploitation Continues at Apple Supplier Plant
http://www.chinalaborwatch.org/newscast/392

Apple launching gold iPad this month
http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/perso.../16524899/

[Wonky3]

Yeah, I also like to use my iPad when I write about big companies who exploit their workers:

Worker Exploitation Continues at Apple Supplier Plant
http://www.chinalaborwatch.org/newscast/392

Apple launching gold iPad this month
http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/perso.../16524899/

Yep. It's global. And not getting any better anytime soon. Working people really need to look to some other option other than trusting in the outfit that hires them and hoping for the best.
There is STRENGTH IN NUMBERS.
(and having said that, the "Union Movement" in this country (and around the globe) needs some correcting too)