Time to say goodby to firewood?

[tvguy]

I agree with the underlined part. Every year when fire season ends and people start burning their wood stoves and or yard debris I have to breath the stink instead of cold fresh air.



Stephen Kessler: Time to say goodbye to firewood
 
 



For most of my adult life I’ve lived in the country and heated my home with wood. In a small dwelling the primitive appeal of an open fire in a stone hearth is magnetic. To sit or stand by a fireplace on a cold night warming one’s body affords a sense of comfort and well-being unsurpassed by that of more-modern conveniences. In larger spaces a well-stoked woodstove radiates a warmth that feels more pervasive, more physically enriching than the pleasant ambient temperature of central heating.

The exercise you get from stacking wood, carrying logs, splitting kindling and other rituals of wood heat — not to mention the satisfaction taken in the everyday art of constructing the fire — are things I used to considered pleasant necessities.



That’s why, in town, if you happen to have a fireplace, it’s pleasant on a cold or rainy night to get a good fire going even if the house can be heated otherwise. The smell of oak or eucalyptus or walnut or madrone or, best of all, apple or cherry or other fruit wood, each with its distinctive aroma, is value added.

So it is with the grief of losing a great love that I realize I must say goodbye to firewood, and have recently installed a gas insert with ceramic logs in the hearth where our open fire used to be. And I feel for the residents of the San Lorenzo Valley and other smoky environments where the funky pleasures of burning wood have met the toxic realities of air pollution, respiratory illness, greenhouse gases, carbon footprints and other violations of the planet. The wood fire is going the way of the tobacco cigarette, a relic, a dirty pleasure, of a more clueless time.



Anyone who has lived in a community where most people heat with wood and where coastal breezes don’t disperse the smoke knows how stinky winter nights can be when some neighbor’s stovepipe is giving off a stench of tar; and even one’s own beloved stove can, when the wind is blowing the wrong way, back up with such corruption that you must open a window. The whole place is glazed with a fine layer of ash. You get sick and tired of breathing bad air and you begin to understand that it’s killing you.



So kiss your woodstoves goodbye, friends; it’s only a matter of time before they are banned, like the ancient incinerators of Los Angeles. It is no longer cool to perfume and pollute the public sky with woodsmoke. Those fragrant mountain nights are gone with the wind.

[cletus1]

Well if people knew how to burn wood properly there would be a lot less smoke in the air. 

I still agree with the writer and understand that wood smoke is a big part of winter air pollution. 

TVguy, do you get any smoke from your pellet stove?

[tvguy]

Well if people knew how to burn wood properly there would be a lot less smoke in the air. 

I still agree with the writer and understand that wood smoke is a big part of winter air pollution. 

TVguy, do you get any smoke from your pellet stove?

Well if people knew how to burn wood properly there would be a lot less smoke in the air.

Yes but many don't know how to burn wood properly and don't care anyway. People around me burn their trash in their stoves.
Also IMO the proper way to burn wood is not exactly what works best for the user.The clean way to burn wood that is always recommended is to burn HOT fires. But people want their wood stove to burn all night so they stuff it with wood and then choke off the air until it smolders.
Also you are supposed to burn wood that only has a certain % of moisture.Well a lot of people buy cheap ass mill ends or cut their own wood and they'll burn anything.


TVguy, do you get any smoke from your pellet stove?

Nope, none. I think it smokes at startup a little but when I'm outside and it's running you can't see any smoke whatsoever.

[GPnative]

I bought a new Pacific Energy Super 27 wood stove, the thing is amazing. Except for at the initial start up, my neighbors would have no idea I even have a fire going. It burns so clean and efficient it far surpassed my expectations. When the fire is up to temp and the secondary's have kicked in, there is zero visible smoke from the flue.  Of course, I am also burning properly seasoned wood. The design is such that you turn off the primary air to allow for the secondary burn, however it never fully chokes down as a minimal amount of fresh air is allowed for the stove to function properly, this happens independent of the primary air control.  I have done a final reload on the stove at 8pm and had enough coals at 4pm the following day to restart a fire with no paper and no match. I'd like to see someone with a 30 year old big bertha smoke generator stove pull that off.

Now, contrast that to my neighbor, I have no idea how it is even possible to generate as much smoke as they produce. Clearly they are burning green wet wood, choked all the way down and it just pumps out the thickest plume of funk I have ever seen from a 6" pipe. I can't imagine that they are generating enough heat to even make it worthwhile to burn. No joke, we had brought home our Christmas tree the previous weekend and had sitting out on the back porch until we decided to bring it in the house, which we did this weekend and right away we noticed an off odor, so we smelled the tree and did it smell like a nice fresh cut tree?? NO! it actually smells like stale wood stove smoke from our neighbors smoke stack from hell, that's how bad they pollute the area, they make a tree that is sitting outside stink! I am normally one to live and let live, but folks like that genuinely pollute the neighborhood and I think people inside city limits or urban growth boundary's should be held to a higher standard when it comes to proper burning and there should be some codes and code enforcement in place to deal with these gross offenders.  Meanwhile, it is not a matter of if but when the neighbors experience a flue fire, their flue cap looks just about plugged solid and it has visible creosote dripping down the pipe externally. I think the only reason it hasn't torched off yet is they never generate a high enough flue temp for ignition, but if that day comes where they actually produce a HOT fire, holy cow, it is a flue inferno just waiting to happen.

[Wonky3]

I bought a new Pacific Energy Super 27 wood stove, the thing is amazing. Except for at the initial start up, my neighbors would have no idea I even have a fire going. It burns so clean and efficient it far surpassed my expectations. When the fire is up to temp and the secondary's have kicked in, there is zero visible smoke from the flue.  Of course, I am also burning properly seasoned wood. The design is such that you turn off the primary air to allow for the secondary burn, however it never fully chokes down as a minimal amount of fresh air is allowed for the stove to function properly, this happens independent of the primary air control.  I have done a final reload on the stove at 8pm and had enough coals at 4pm the following day to restart a fire with no paper and no match. I'd like to see someone with a 30 year old big bertha smoke generator stove pull that off.

Now, contrast that to my neighbor, I have no idea how it is even possible to generate as much smoke as they produce. Clearly they are burning green wet wood, choked all the way down and it just pumps out the thickest plume of funk I have ever seen from a 6" pipe. I can't imagine that they are generating enough heat to even make it worthwhile to burn. No joke, we had brought home our Christmas tree the previous weekend and had sitting out on the back porch until we decided to bring it in the house, which we did this weekend and right away we noticed an off odor, so we smelled the tree and did it smell like a nice fresh cut tree?? NO! it actually smells like stale wood stove smoke from our neighbors smoke stack from hell, that's how bad they pollute the area, they make a tree that is sitting outside stink! I am normally one to live and let live, but folks like that genuinely pollute the neighborhood and I think people inside city limits or urban growth boundary's should be held to a higher standard when it comes to proper burning and there should be some codes and code enforcement in place to deal with these gross offenders.  Meanwhile, it is not a matter of if but when the neighbors experience a flue fire, their flue cap looks just about plugged solid and it has visible creosote dripping down the pipe externally. I think the only reason it hasn't torched off yet is they never generate a high enough flue temp for ignition, but if that day comes where they actually produce a HOT fire, holy cow, it is a flue inferno just waiting to happen.

Sounds like you bought a great stove. Glad it works well for you. I'm wondering...do you live where you can't get natural gas to you your house? 
The byproducts of a properly adjusted natural gas flame in a properly designed combustion chamber are: Heat, light, Carbon Dioxide, and water vapor. Nothing more. 

The following may or may not be "science" because I don't know about the site, but worth considering. (Note "myth"...as they see it). 


http://www.familiesforcleanair.org/myths/


EPA certified woodstoves are the solution.

While it is true that EPA certified wood stoves may produce less particulate air pollution than uncertified ones when new and operated according to manufacturer specifications, they produce orders of magnitude more particulate pollution than appliances that burn natural gas.
In addition, the stated performance of EPA certified wood stoves degrades with use to the point where the particulate emissions are comparable to non-certified wood stoves.
Another key issue: EPA certified wood stoves emit highly toxic dioxins at levels equal to, or even greater, than levels emitted by conventional wood burning devices.

[Valuesize]

I bought a new Pacific Energy Super 27 wood stove, the thing is amazing. Except for at the initial start up, my neighbors would have no idea I even have a fire going. It burns so clean and efficient it far surpassed my expectations. When the fire is up to temp and the secondary's have kicked in, there is zero visible smoke from the flue.  Of course, I am also burning properly seasoned wood. The design is such that you turn off the primary air to allow for the secondary burn, however it never fully chokes down as a minimal amount of fresh air is allowed for the stove to function properly, this happens independent of the primary air control.  I have done a final reload on the stove at 8pm and had enough coals at 4pm the following day to restart a fire with no paper and no match. I'd like to see someone with a 30 year old big bertha smoke generator stove pull that off.

Now, contrast that to my neighbor, I have no idea how it is even possible to generate as much smoke as they produce. Clearly they are burning green wet wood, choked all the way down and it just pumps out the thickest plume of funk I have ever seen from a 6" pipe. I can't imagine that they are generating enough heat to even make it worthwhile to burn. No joke, we had brought home our Christmas tree the previous weekend and had sitting out on the back porch until we decided to bring it in the house, which we did this weekend and right away we noticed an off odor, so we smelled the tree and did it smell like a nice fresh cut tree?? NO! it actually smells like stale wood stove smoke from our neighbors smoke stack from hell, that's how bad they pollute the area, they make a tree that is sitting outside stink! I am normally one to live and let live, but folks like that genuinely pollute the neighborhood and I think people inside city limits or urban growth boundary's should be held to a higher standard when it comes to proper burning and there should be some codes and code enforcement in place to deal with these gross offenders.  Meanwhile, it is not a matter of if but when the neighbors experience a flue fire, their flue cap looks just about plugged solid and it has visible creosote dripping down the pipe externally. I think the only reason it hasn't torched off yet is they never generate a high enough flue temp for ignition, but if that day comes where they actually produce a HOT fire, holy cow, it is a flue inferno just waiting to happen.

I've never owned a wood stove, but I may someday. The way I understand it, this is the type you would buy if you had access to a free or very cheap wood source? Or is it because it needs less tending to after initial startup?

As to the neighbor, couldn't you go down to the nearest fire station and request they avert a disaster? Anytime I've been to a station with my kids they teach being proactive as the first line of safety. As I see it, the neighbors may be unaware of the danger and may just need to be told it needs to be cleaned properly. Maybe Public Safety have a booklet they could give them on the proper, safe way to operate it, using appropriately dried wood. 

Is their home is close enough to yours to be putting you and your family at risk? I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I was worried my home and family were at risk. 

[bbqboy]

Have you forgotten what JokeO is like? His neighbor will probably summon the oath keepers to defend his right to destroy the earth, and shoot the firemen besides.

[GPnative]

I bought a new Pacific Energy Super 27 wood stove, the thing is amazing. Except for at the initial start up, my neighbors would have no idea I even have a fire going. It burns so clean and efficient it far surpassed my expectations. When the fire is up to temp and the secondary's have kicked in, there is zero visible smoke from the flue.  Of course, I am also burning properly seasoned wood. The design is such that you turn off the primary air to allow for the secondary burn, however it never fully chokes down as a minimal amount of fresh air is allowed for the stove to function properly, this happens independent of the primary air control.  I have done a final reload on the stove at 8pm and had enough coals at 4pm the following day to restart a fire with no paper and no match. I'd like to see someone with a 30 year old big bertha smoke generator stove pull that off.

Now, contrast that to my neighbor, I have no idea how it is even possible to generate as much smoke as they produce. Clearly they are burning green wet wood, choked all the way down and it just pumps out the thickest plume of funk I have ever seen from a 6" pipe. I can't imagine that they are generating enough heat to even make it worthwhile to burn. No joke, we had brought home our Christmas tree the previous weekend and had sitting out on the back porch until we decided to bring it in the house, which we did this weekend and right away we noticed an off odor, so we smelled the tree and did it smell like a nice fresh cut tree?? NO! it actually smells like stale wood stove smoke from our neighbors smoke stack from hell, that's how bad they pollute the area, they make a tree that is sitting outside stink! I am normally one to live and let live, but folks like that genuinely pollute the neighborhood and I think people inside city limits or urban growth boundary's should be held to a higher standard when it comes to proper burning and there should be some codes and code enforcement in place to deal with these gross offenders.  Meanwhile, it is not a matter of if but when the neighbors experience a flue fire, their flue cap looks just about plugged solid and it has visible creosote dripping down the pipe externally. I think the only reason it hasn't torched off yet is they never generate a high enough flue temp for ignition, but if that day comes where they actually produce a HOT fire, holy cow, it is a flue inferno just waiting to happen.

I've never owned a wood stove, but I may someday. The way I understand it, this is the type you would buy if you had access to a free or very cheap wood source? Or is it because it needs less tending to after initial startup?

As to the neighbor, couldn't you go down to the nearest fire station and request they avert a disaster? Anytime I've been to a station with my kids they teach being proactive as the first line of safety. As I see it, the neighbors may be unaware of the danger and may just need to be told it needs to be cleaned properly. Maybe Public Safety have a booklet they could give them on the proper, safe way to operate it, using appropriately dried wood. 

Is their home is close enough to yours to be putting you and your family at risk? I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I was worried my home and family were at risk. 

No, they are not close enough for any real danger to our place. I suppose I could visit the local fire station and mention it to them, however, whether it's heard on the radio, newspaper articles, common sense, etc. if you burn wood it is common knowledge to have your flue cleaned and inspected once a year, they should know this, and I am sure they probably do, they just don't care and if they don't care, why should I? Yes, I know that is not very neighborly of me, but neither is them polluting the entire neighborhoods air.

I would suggest you research what you need/want from a wood stove and go from there. A free or cheap wood source is nice to have no matter what kind of wood stove you use. All stoves require tending to various degrees, catalytic vs. non cat. stoves, etc. Lots to consider, and it was one of the hardest purchase decisions I have had to make in a long time and it is an expensive investment.
When I start up a fire I allow myself a good hour before I feel like I can walk away from it and let it do it's thing. Of course, once it reaches this point, not much is required to do until you reload, which I normally do when the stove top temp reaches about 300 degrees. Just because a stove has advertised burn times, that does not mean you will be getting any substantial heat for all those hours. For example, my final reload last night was about 8:30pm. When I went to bed at 10pm the main living room where the stove is was 80 degrees. (back of the house 68, kitchen 73) When I woke up this morning at 5am the room was down to 71 (bedrooms 64) and I had a stove top temp of 150. I could of easily rekindled the fire with some small splits, but we usually just have fires in the evening. On the coldest night last week, same burning scenario, the living room got down to 66 by morning.
 Hmmm, where was I going with all of this? I think that was a long way of saying, wood stoves will always need tending of some sort depending on the stove and house variables, etc. You will not maintain your homes heat for 10+ hours just because that is the advertised "burn time".  Wood stoves and dealing with wood, is a lot of work, but the pay off is that wonderful toasty heat on those cold winter nights. I was wearing shorts in the house last night

[tvguy]

Have you forgotten what JokeO is like? His neighbor will probably summon the oath keepers to defend his right to destroy the earth, and shoot the firemen besides.

[GPnative]

Have you forgotten what JokeO is like? His neighbor will probably summon the oath keepers to defend his right to destroy the earth, and shoot the firemen besides.

I just saw your comment, that's pretty funny right there....

[GPnative]

Another helpful tidbit for wood stove users, I was clued into building top down fires a couple years ago, a huge improvement from the standard, paper + kindling on bottom, adding more wood as you go method. Top down method is a super efficient way to start a fire and way less babysitting required, been building fires this way ever since, I love it.

This explains it well, of course it will have to be modified accordingly to suit ones firebox size:  Top Down Fires

[tvguy]

Nice GP. It sounds like you really thought this out and I like to hear all the details on the temps in separate rooms and various burn times.
You didn't say but I imagine you are burning madrone? Or maybe oak?
You have done what I wish everyone will do but I just don't believe it will ever happen. Too many of us have neighbors like yours who are ignorant or just don't care. Also where I live most of the residents wouldn't even consider a wood stove like you purchased that cost what $2500.00?
More ignorance because with the lesser amount of wood you burn at some point you will get that money back that you paid for that Nice stove.
People are selling madrone at $240 a cord NOW. who knows what it will be worth in February.


Valuesize....I've never owned a wood stove, but I may someday. The way I understand it, this is the type you would buy if you had access to a free or very cheap wood source? Or is it because it needs less tending to after initial startup?

 Free wood source? As they say, there is NO free lunch Even if you have access to free wood, just to get it cut split and hauled to your house its still going to cost money and time. Plus you need a truck, preferably a 3/4 ton a chainsaw, files, saw mix, chain oil ,chains, cables, splitting mauls. wedges
Also there aren't as many good wood cutting areas as there used to be since there isn't as much logging.

There's a saying. "Firewood will warm you twice" once when you cut it and once when you burn it Basically it's a lot of work and a lot more work for people who don't have a lot of experience.

[tvguy]

Sounds like you bought a great stove. Glad it works well for you. I'm wondering...do you live where you can't get natural gas to you your house? 

Hey Wonky I can't speak for GPnative although I doubt he has natural gas. But I will say that if I had natural gas that would be exactly what I would use to heat my house.
I haven't priced it this year but unless it went way up it would be the best way to go for me.

[tvguy]

Another helpful tidbit for wood stove users, I was clued into building top down fires a couple years ago, a huge improvement from the standard, paper + kindling on bottom, adding more wood as you go method. Top down method is a super efficient way to start a fire and way less babysitting required, been building fires this way ever since, I love it.

This explains it well, of course it will have to be modified accordingly to suit ones firebox size:  Top Down Fires

That's interesting. I kind of do that LOL. In my shop I always put some big wood in first like the the photo sequence shown. But then I put paper in and small split doug fir next.

That's only if I happen to be out of propane LOL. Because normally I just toss wood in the stove and I have a propane tank with a long hose and a weed burner that starts the fire in a jiffy

[GPnative]

Nice GP. It sounds like you really thought this out and I like to hear all the details on the temps in separate rooms and various burn times.
You didn't say but I imagine you are burning madrone? Or maybe oak?
You have done what I wish everyone will do but I just don't believe it will ever happen. Too many of us have neighbors like yours who are ignorant or just don't care. Also where I live most of the residents wouldn't even consider a wood stove like you purchased that cost what $2500.00?
More ignorance because with the lesser amount of wood you burn at some point you will get that money back that you paid for that Nice stove.
People are selling madrone at $240 a cord NOW. who knows what it will be worth in February.

Once the fire is cruising I burn Madrone. I use Fir for intial startups and rekindles.

The stove, new pipe to the ceiling, install, permit, flue braces for roof, etc, all said and done set me back about $2200, The stove was about $1800. I opted for the pro install and doing it legit with permit and inspection so God forbid if we ever have a fire I can show the insurance company it was all professional and passed inspection.

[GPnative]

Sounds like you bought a great stove. Glad it works well for you. I'm wondering...do you live where you can't get natural gas to you your house? 

Hey Wonky I can't speak for GPnative although I doubt he has natural gas. But I will say that if I had natural gas that would be exactly what I would use to heat my house.
I haven't priced it this year but unless it went way up it would be the best way to go for me.

I wish we had a natural gas option, but we dont.

[chuck white]

I'm OK with the' end of wood'
I find old tires burn with more heat anyway.