T This is a standiing rock, Dakota access thread
#21
(12-01-2016, 06:22 PM)cletus1 Wrote:
(12-01-2016, 06:17 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(12-01-2016, 04:32 PM)cletus1 Wrote:
(12-01-2016, 04:06 PM)tvguy Wrote: Anyway Wonk. What's your take on the OP. I think you were in on shooting the last of the buffalo so you must have some good insight.

I have no dog in this fight, but I certainly understand the tribes concern about oil spills and the possibility of contaminating a water aquifer. Whether their protests are helpful I can't say, but spraying water on the protestors during a Dakota winter is fucking bullshit.

Well, bullshit at least. "Fucking" bullshit? Sounds creepy. 

You know what's funny? All (or allmost all, at least) drove there in F-150 pickups or the like, burning gasoline refined from crude oil. Hey, I understand they had no choice...but ya gotta admit there is some irony there. 
The oil has gotta come from someplace and thuough someones back yard. 
Just not mine.  Laughing

(Wonder if anyone here at the RFV has given up gasoline/diesel  powered vehicle)

Why so extreme? You mean you can't protest an oil pipeline if you drive?? That makes no sense to me.

It makes perfect sense.  If EVERYONE stopped oil companies from putting pipelines across rivers we would be paying a hell of a lot more for our gasoline.
Reply
#22
(12-01-2016, 07:38 PM)Cuzz Wrote: Everybody has the right to protest. It's a constitutional thing.

Intentional dousing people with water in those freezing temperatures is just wrong. So is rock throwing. They should all get a timeout.

I think the best they could realistically expect is some accommodation to protect their water supply. I think pipe line design should be better for water crossings but more spills will need to occur before that happens.

They are right about one thing. Pipe lines fail all the time. Sometimes neighborhoods get blown up.

Maybe next time they will involve themselves in the planning stage. Probably would get a better outcome.

The pipeline crossing the river is supposed to be high tech. Seems simple to me. You have flow meters on each side connected to shut a off valve. Any leak happens the difference between the flow on each side of the river closes the valve.


They are right about one thing. Pipe lines fail all the time. Sometimes neighborhoods get blown up.



The Dakota access pipeline is for crude on not natural gas. And yes river crossing have failed. But I don't know of anywhere where the water supply is ruined like the claims I keep hearing.
Reply
#23
(12-02-2016, 12:45 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(12-01-2016, 07:38 PM)Cuzz Wrote: Everybody has the right to protest. It's a constitutional thing.

Intentional dousing people with water in those freezing temperatures is just wrong. So is rock throwing. They should all get a timeout.

I think the best they could realistically expect is some accommodation to protect their water supply. I think pipe line design should be better for water crossings but more spills will need to occur before that happens.

They are right about one thing. Pipe lines fail all the time. Sometimes neighborhoods get blown up.

Maybe next time they will involve themselves in the planning stage. Probably would get a better outcome.

The pipeline crossing the river is supposed to be high tech. Seems simple to me. You have flow meters on each side connected to shut a off valve. Any leak happens the difference between the flow on each side of the river closes the valve.


They are right about one thing. Pipe lines fail all the time. Sometimes neighborhoods get blown up.



The Dakota access pipeline is for crude on not natural gas. And yes river crossing have failed. But I don't know of anywhere where the water supply is ruined like the claims I keep hearing.
What gets left out of every discussion/argument on standing rock is that the oil is right now being transported by rail car 3 times per week, warren buffet owned rail cars btw. The environmental impact of the transportation and when a derail happens is infinitely worse that a pipeline. Look up how often a rail accident happens carrying oil.
Reply
#24
(12-02-2016, 01:52 PM)orygunluvr Wrote:
(12-02-2016, 12:45 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(12-01-2016, 07:38 PM)Cuzz Wrote: Everybody has the right to protest. It's a constitutional thing.

Intentional dousing people with water in those freezing temperatures is just wrong. So is rock throwing. They should all get a timeout.

I think the best they could realistically expect is some accommodation to protect their water supply. I think pipe line design should be better for water crossings but more spills will need to occur before that happens.

They are right about one thing. Pipe lines fail all the time. Sometimes neighborhoods get blown up.

Maybe next time they will involve themselves in the planning stage. Probably would get a better outcome.

The pipeline crossing the river is supposed to be high tech. Seems simple to me. You have flow meters on each side connected to shut a off valve. Any leak happens the difference between the flow on each side of the river closes the valve.


They are right about one thing. Pipe lines fail all the time. Sometimes neighborhoods get blown up.



The Dakota access pipeline is for crude on not natural gas. And yes river crossing have failed. But I don't know of anywhere where the water supply is ruined like the claims I keep hearing.
What gets left out of every discussion/argument on standing rock is that the oil is right now being transported by rail car 3 times per week, warren buffet owned rail cars btw. The environmental impact of the transportation and when a derail happens is infinitely worse that a pipeline. Look up how often a rail accident happens carrying oil.

"The short answer is: truck worse than train worse than pipeline worse than boat (Oilprice.com). But that’s only for human death and property destruction. For the normalized amount of oil spilled, it’s truck worse than pipeline worse than rail worse than boat (Congressional Research Service). Different yet again is for environmental impact (dominated by impact to aquatic habitat), where it’s boat worse than pipeline worse than truck worse than rail."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2...a18ad95777

Not that I'm a Buffet fan.
Reply
#25
(12-02-2016, 02:16 PM)Cuzz Wrote:
(12-02-2016, 01:52 PM)orygunluvr Wrote:
(12-02-2016, 12:45 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(12-01-2016, 07:38 PM)Cuzz Wrote: Everybody has the right to protest. It's a constitutional thing.

Intentional dousing people with water in those freezing temperatures is just wrong. So is rock throwing. They should all get a timeout.

I think the best they could realistically expect is some accommodation to protect their water supply. I think pipe line design should be better for water crossings but more spills will need to occur before that happens.

They are right about one thing. Pipe lines fail all the time. Sometimes neighborhoods get blown up.

Maybe next time they will involve themselves in the planning stage. Probably would get a better outcome.

The pipeline crossing the river is supposed to be high tech. Seems simple to me. You have flow meters on each side connected to shut a off valve. Any leak happens the difference between the flow on each side of the river closes the valve.


They are right about one thing. Pipe lines fail all the time. Sometimes neighborhoods get blown up.



The Dakota access pipeline is for crude on not natural gas. And yes river crossing have failed. But I don't know of anywhere where the water supply is ruined like the claims I keep hearing.
What gets left out of every discussion/argument on standing rock is that the oil is right now being transported by rail car 3 times per week, warren buffet owned rail cars btw. The environmental impact of the transportation and when a derail happens is infinitely worse that a pipeline. Look up how often a rail accident happens carrying oil.

"The short answer is: truck worse than train worse than pipeline worse than boat (Oilprice.com). But that’s only for human death and property destruction. For the normalized amount of oil spilled, it’s truck worse than pipeline worse than rail worse than boat (Congressional Research Service). Different yet again is for environmental impact (dominated by impact to aquatic habitat), where it’s boat worse than pipeline worse than truck worse than rail."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2...a18ad95777

Not that I'm a Buffet fan.
There is no magical solution and being a paid shill for soros isn't going to make the sub zero temperatures less deadly. But the upside? Darwin awards for the protesters.
Reply
#26
(12-03-2016, 09:53 AM)orygunluvr Wrote:
(12-02-2016, 02:16 PM)Cuzz Wrote:
(12-02-2016, 01:52 PM)orygunluvr Wrote:
(12-02-2016, 12:45 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(12-01-2016, 07:38 PM)Cuzz Wrote: Everybody has the right to protest. It's a constitutional thing.

Intentional dousing people with water in those freezing temperatures is just wrong. So is rock throwing. They should all get a timeout.

I think the best they could realistically expect is some accommodation to protect their water supply. I think pipe line design should be better for water crossings but more spills will need to occur before that happens.

They are right about one thing. Pipe lines fail all the time. Sometimes neighborhoods get blown up.

Maybe next time they will involve themselves in the planning stage. Probably would get a better outcome.

The pipeline crossing the river is supposed to be high tech. Seems simple to me. You have flow meters on each side connected to shut a off valve. Any leak happens the difference between the flow on each side of the river closes the valve.


They are right about one thing. Pipe lines fail all the time. Sometimes neighborhoods get blown up.



The Dakota access pipeline is for crude on not natural gas. And yes river crossing have failed. But I don't know of anywhere where the water supply is ruined like the claims I keep hearing.
What gets left out of every discussion/argument on standing rock is that the oil is right now being transported by rail car 3 times per week, warren buffet owned rail cars btw. The environmental impact of the transportation and when a derail happens is infinitely worse that a pipeline. Look up how often a rail accident happens carrying oil.

"The short answer is: truck worse than train worse than pipeline worse than boat (Oilprice.com). But that’s only for human death and property destruction. For the normalized amount of oil spilled, it’s truck worse than pipeline worse than rail worse than boat (Congressional Research Service). Different yet again is for environmental impact (dominated by impact to aquatic habitat), where it’s boat worse than pipeline worse than truck worse than rail."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2...a18ad95777

Not that I'm a Buffet fan.
There is no magical solution and being a paid shill for soros isn't going to make the sub zero temperatures less deadly. But the upside? Darwin awards for the protesters.

The highlighted has to be the most intelligent thing I remember you saying. And I agree.

As for the rest we'll just have to see. I suspect some are well prepared, others not so much.
Reply
#27
What happens to these pipe lines 50 years from now when they are abandoned and the companies are gone belly up.
Do the future tax payer pay for the clean up again.
We never learn.
Reply
#28
(12-03-2016, 10:51 AM)chuck white Wrote: What happens to these pipe lines 50 years from now when they are abandoned and the companies are gone belly up.
Do the future tax payer pay for the clean up again.
We never learn.

Much less of an issue since they're underground, and will stay there for the duration of their life span. Mother Nature will take good care of them. Ever seen how many old decayed pipes come out during excavation for new construction? Show your solidarity and quit using oil and anything associated with it.
Reply
#29
(12-03-2016, 11:33 AM)orygunluvr Wrote:
(12-03-2016, 10:51 AM)chuck white Wrote: What happens to these pipe lines 50 years from now when they are abandoned and the companies are gone belly up.
Do the future tax payer pay for the clean up again.
We never learn.

Much less of an issue since they're underground, and will stay there for the duration of their life span. Mother Nature will take good care of them. Ever seen how many old decayed pipes come out during excavation for new construction? Show your solidarity and quit using oil and anything associated with it.

That explains all the pipeline spills that occur monthly in the US.   Dry
Reply
#30
(12-03-2016, 10:51 AM)chuck white Wrote: What happens to these pipe lines 50 years from now when they are abandoned and the companies are gone belly up.
Do the future tax payer pay for the clean up again.
We never learn.

Why would anyone need to clean up or remove empty pipelines?
Reply
#31
(12-03-2016, 01:37 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(12-03-2016, 10:51 AM)chuck white Wrote: What happens to these pipe lines 50 years from now when they are abandoned and the companies are gone belly up.
Do the future tax payer pay for the clean up again.
We never learn.

Why would anyone need to clean up or remove empty pipelines?

All that oil they pumped out of the ground will coat the pipes.
Over time it will leak out and contaminate the ground. Big Grin
Reply
#32
(12-03-2016, 11:54 AM)Cuzz Wrote:
(12-03-2016, 11:33 AM)orygunluvr Wrote:
(12-03-2016, 10:51 AM)chuck white Wrote: What happens to these pipe lines 50 years from now when they are abandoned and the companies are gone belly up.
Do the future tax payer pay for the clean up again.
We never learn.

Much less of an issue since they're underground, and will stay there for the duration of their life span. Mother Nature will take good care of them. Ever seen how many old decayed pipes come out during excavation for new construction? Show your solidarity and quit using oil and anything associated with it.

That explains all the pipeline spills that occur monthly in the US.   Dry

I'm a lot more interested in seeing what damage that was done especially what lasting damage from crude oil pipelines than lists of pipeline spills.
But good luck finding that. It seems like most info is designed to scare us all.

Right now it's the price we pay for having cars trucks rototillers snowmobiles motorcycles chainsaws lawn mowers tractors........

"Water is life"   Someone show me a river where no one can use the water because of an oil spill.
Reply
#33
(12-03-2016, 01:44 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(12-03-2016, 11:54 AM)Cuzz Wrote:
(12-03-2016, 11:33 AM)orygunluvr Wrote:
(12-03-2016, 10:51 AM)chuck white Wrote: What happens to these pipe lines 50 years from now when they are abandoned and the companies are gone belly up.
Do the future tax payer pay for the clean up again.
We never learn.

Much less of an issue since they're underground, and will stay there for the duration of their life span. Mother Nature will take good care of them. Ever seen how many old decayed pipes come out during excavation for new construction? Show your solidarity and quit using oil and anything associated with it.

That explains all the pipeline spills that occur monthly in the US.   Dry

I'm a lot more interested in seeing what damage that was done especially what lasting damage from crude oil pipelines than lists of pipeline spills.
But good luck finding that. It seems like most info is designed to scare us all.

Right now it's the price we pay for having cars trucks rototillers snowmobiles motorcycles chainsaws lawn mowers tractors........

"Water is life"   Someone show me a river where no one can use the water because of an oil spill.
Quote:
Quote:More than 300 indigenous people in communities on the Teles Pires River, a tributary of the Tapajós River, have been impacted by an oil spill of unknown origin. Investigation is ongoing.
https://news.mongabay.com/2016/11/amazon...res-river/

Big Grin
Reply
#34
(12-03-2016, 01:44 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(12-03-2016, 11:54 AM)Cuzz Wrote:
(12-03-2016, 11:33 AM)orygunluvr Wrote:
(12-03-2016, 10:51 AM)chuck white Wrote: What happens to these pipe lines 50 years from now when they are abandoned and the companies are gone belly up.
Do the future tax payer pay for the clean up again.
We never learn.

Much less of an issue since they're underground, and will stay there for the duration of their life span. Mother Nature will take good care of them. Ever seen how many old decayed pipes come out during excavation for new construction? Show your solidarity and quit using oil and anything associated with it.

That explains all the pipeline spills that occur monthly in the US.   Dry

I'm a lot more interested in seeing what damage that was done especially what lasting damage from crude oil pipelines than lists of pipeline spills.
But good luck finding that. It seems like most info is designed to scare us all.

Right now it's the price we pay for having cars trucks rototillers snowmobiles motorcycles chainsaws lawn mowers tractors........

"Water is life"   Someone show me a river where no one can use the water because of an oil spill.

I was responding to OL's weird claim that putting them underground and letting nature take care of them was somehow a solution. Crude oil spills are especially toxic and difficult to clean up. Course it's a lot different if the spill is over land or water. Still I agree there is a price to pay to use oil products. Ain't nothing for free.

What keeps concerning me is utilities and pipeline companies maintenance schedules. From what I've seen the common method is to continually reduce maintenance until failures become a big enough problem then increase it just enough. Anything like being proactive seems out of the question. I don't have any problem with making profit but sometimes I it's taken too far.

And some people still think regulations are just meant to spite them.
Reply
#35
The oil is going to be transported no matter what, earth justice just doesn't want it done by pipeline because it cuts into their profits of rail car transportation. Talk about being duped. When obozo vetoed keystone all it did was keep Warren buffets dangerous rail cars going, which they haven't slowed down a bit.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/03/09/e...crude-oil/

Exploding Trains and Crude Oil
by JON FLANDERS
On the eve of the first conference bringing together rail workers and environmentalists in Richmond, California, we’ve had one oil train after another go off the tracks and explode. The latest was in Ontario, Canada. According to a news report, “Ontario Provincial Police said the derailment happened near Gogama, Ont., around 2:45 a.m. Saturday morning, with some of the cars catching fire and others falling into the Mattagami River.”
Reply
#36
(12-03-2016, 02:56 PM)Cuzz Wrote:
(12-03-2016, 01:44 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(12-03-2016, 11:54 AM)Cuzz Wrote:
(12-03-2016, 11:33 AM)orygunluvr Wrote:
(12-03-2016, 10:51 AM)chuck white Wrote: What happens to these pipe lines 50 years from now when they are abandoned and the companies are gone belly up.
Do the future tax payer pay for the clean up again.
We never learn.

Much less of an issue since they're underground, and will stay there for the duration of their life span. Mother Nature will take good care of them. Ever seen how many old decayed pipes come out during excavation for new construction? Show your solidarity and quit using oil and anything associated with it.

That explains all the pipeline spills that occur monthly in the US.   Dry

I'm a lot more interested in seeing what damage that was done especially what lasting damage from crude oil pipelines than lists of pipeline spills.
But good luck finding that. It seems like most info is designed to scare us all.

Right now it's the price we pay for having cars trucks rototillers snowmobiles motorcycles chainsaws lawn mowers tractors........

"Water is life"   Someone show me a river where no one can use the water because of an oil spill.

I was responding to OL's weird claim that putting them underground and letting nature take care of them was somehow a solution. Crude oil spills are especially toxic and difficult to clean up. Course it's a lot different if the spill is over land or water. Still I agree there is a price to pay to use oil products. Ain't nothing for free.

What keeps concerning me is utilities and pipeline companies maintenance schedules. From what I've seen the common method is to continually reduce maintenance until failures become a big enough problem then increase it just enough. Anything like being proactive seems out of the question. I don't have any problem with making profit but sometimes I it's taken too far.

And some people still think regulations are just meant to spite them.

I would think that you could empty and flush out crude oil pipelines and then just let them rust away. Not sure though Smiling

And some people still think regulations are just meant to spite them.
I totally agree.
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)