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RE: Join The Resistance - Hugo - 11-19-2016

(11-19-2016, 08:07 PM)Juniper Wrote:
(11-19-2016, 07:49 PM)Valuesize Wrote:
(11-19-2016, 06:27 PM)Hugo Wrote: The biggest fantasy in this Wonky, is that you believe the NYT  and the Washington Post to be "fact based journalism".

Laughing Laughing

I've asked before without an answer. What are your top three favorite "fact based" news sources?

I recently saw a similar post on FB. Top answer:  InfoWars.  There you go!  America!

I find Infowars to be a comical site (unintentionally on their part), and I take their stories with a grain of salt.  Most have a grain of truth in them, but then they spin it into the atmosphere.


RE: Join The Resistance - cletus1 - 11-19-2016

(11-19-2016, 08:20 PM)Valuesize Wrote:
(11-19-2016, 08:07 PM)Juniper Wrote:
(11-19-2016, 07:49 PM)Valuesize Wrote:
(11-19-2016, 06:27 PM)Hugo Wrote: The biggest fantasy in this Wonky, is that you believe the NYT  and the Washington Post to be "fact based journalism".

Laughing Laughing

I've asked before without an answer. What are your top three favorite "fact based" news sources?

I recently saw a similar post on FB. Top answer:  InfoWars.  There you go!  America!

Embarrassed to say says it all.

Is there anyone here who does not know the "fact based sources" sources Hugo relies on? I think he is just to shy to tell us, but I will. His favorite is Fox News. I think Breitbart recently took the place of Glenn Beck after Glenn Beck saw Tump for what he was. Laura Ingram is in there too. 

I will speak for him until he gets over his shyness.  Big Grin


RE: Join The Resistance - Big Rock - 11-19-2016

Quote:"The Great Unraveling - Epic loss reveals retreat of working-class support
In Their Coastal Citadels, Democrats Argue Over What Went Wrong

Democrats lost the presidential contest because they ceded the economic issue to Mr. Trump. 'There was an over emphasis on Trump’s personality and not enough emphasis on what the country could be,' said New Hampshire Democratic Chairman Ray Buckley, who leads an organization of state Democratic leaders and is weighing a run to become the party’s national chairman.
Peter Hart, a veteran Democratic pollster, said the red-and-blue map of presidential election results spoke to the legacy of the party’s neglect of working-class concerns.
'You stop listening to those people, and 30 states from the Eastern Seaboard to the Western Slope go red,' said Mr. Hart, adding that Mrs. Clinton 'never had an economic message. And without an economic message, all that was left was experience which is like a pair of twos in poker: A winner until any other hand comes along.'
Though he is new to the top leadership post, Mr. Schumer, 65, is one of an array of aging Baby Boomers leading the party on Capitol Hill—an indication of how a series of heavy election losses has left the party with a thin bench of political talent.
The top three Democrats in the House are in their 70s. In the Senate, Mr. Schumer is replacing the 76-year-old Harry Reid. Even the darlings of the party’s young activists are old enough to qualify for Medicare—Mr. Sanders, 75, and Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren, 67.
A restive younger generation is rising up in the House for a possible challenge to Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi, 76.
Howard Dean, the former Democratic National Committee chairman who is seeking his old post back, said the party needs to cultivate and activate its young supporters who were apathetic in this year’s election.
'The future of the party is in 18- to 40-year olds and we need a new generation of leadership,' said Mr. Dean, who is himself 67 years old."

http://www.wsj.com/articles/in-their-coastal-citadels-democrats-argue-over-what-went-wrong-1479483070



RE: Join The Resistance - Hugo - 11-19-2016

(11-19-2016, 08:41 PM)cletus1 Wrote:
(11-19-2016, 08:20 PM)Valuesize Wrote:
(11-19-2016, 08:07 PM)Juniper Wrote:
(11-19-2016, 07:49 PM)Valuesize Wrote:
(11-19-2016, 06:27 PM)Hugo Wrote: The biggest fantasy in this Wonky, is that you believe the NYT  and the Washington Post to be "fact based journalism".

Laughing Laughing

I've asked before without an answer. What are your top three favorite "fact based" news sources?

I recently saw a similar post on FB. Top answer:  InfoWars.  There you go!  America!

Embarrassed to say says it all.

Is there anyone here who does not know the "fact based sources" sources Hugo relies on? I think he is just to shy to tell us, but I will. His favorite is Fox News. I think Breitbart recently took the place of Glenn Beck after Glenn Beck saw Tump for what he was. Laura Ingram is in there too. 

I will speak for him until he gets over his shyness.  Big Grin

I'll never be shy with you.


RE: Join The Resistance - Hugo - 11-19-2016

(11-19-2016, 08:51 PM)Big Rock Wrote:
Quote:"The Great Unraveling - Epic loss reveals retreat of working-class support
In Their Coastal Citadels, Democrats Argue Over What Went Wrong

Democrats lost the presidential contest because they ceded the economic issue to Mr. Trump. 'There was an over emphasis on Trump’s personality and not enough emphasis on what the country could be,' said New Hampshire Democratic Chairman Ray Buckley, who leads an organization of state Democratic leaders and is weighing a run to become the party’s national chairman.
Peter Hart, a veteran Democratic pollster, said the red-and-blue map of presidential election results spoke to the legacy of the party’s neglect of working-class concerns.
'You stop listening to those people, and 30 states from the Eastern Seaboard to the Western Slope go red,' said Mr. Hart, adding that Mrs. Clinton 'never had an economic message. And without an economic message, all that was left was experience which is like a pair of twos in poker: A winner until any other hand comes along.'
Though he is new to the top leadership post, Mr. Schumer, 65, is one of an array of aging Baby Boomers leading the party on Capitol Hill—an indication of how a series of heavy election losses has left the party with a thin bench of political talent.
The top three Democrats in the House are in their 70s. In the Senate, Mr. Schumer is replacing the 76-year-old Harry Reid. Even the darlings of the party’s young activists are old enough to qualify for Medicare—Mr. Sanders, 75, and Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren, 67.
A restive younger generation is rising up in the House for a possible challenge to Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi, 76.
Howard Dean, the former Democratic National Committee chairman who is seeking his old post back, said the party needs to cultivate and activate its young supporters who were apathetic in this year’s election.
'The future of the party is in 18- to 40-year olds and we need a new generation of leadership,' said Mr. Dean, who is himself 67 years old."

http://www.wsj.com/articles/in-their-coastal-citadels-democrats-argue-over-what-went-wrong-1479483070

LOL.. Deaf ears.


RE: Join The Resistance - Valuesize - 11-19-2016

People like Tulsi Gabbard and Joseph P. Kennedy III need to assert themselves and push the old guard down the road.


RE: Join The Resistance - orygunluvr - 11-19-2016

(11-19-2016, 09:46 PM)Valuesize Wrote: People like Tulsi Gabbard and Joseph P. Kennedy III need to assert themselves and push the old guard down the road.

They vote with the old guard 99.9% of the time, they need to change their idealogy first.


RE: Join The Resistance - Juniper - 11-20-2016

Back to Wonky's questions: What do you (that's a general "you)) feel are the most fact based (least least biased) news sources? LEAST BIASED. MOST FACT BASED.


RE: Join The Resistance - chuck white - 11-20-2016

(11-20-2016, 05:40 AM)Juniper Wrote: Back to Wonky's questions: What do you (that's a general "you)) feel are the most fact based (least least biased) news sources?  LEAST BIASED.  MOST FACT BASED.

The Onion.


RE: Join The Resistance - orygunluvr - 11-20-2016

(11-20-2016, 05:40 AM)Juniper Wrote: Back to Wonky's questions: What do you (that's a general "you)) feel are the most fact based (least least biased) news sources?  LEAST BIASED.  MOST FACT BASED.
Probably isn't any at this point in time. I do know a couple that think Jon Stewart is news though, both supposedly intelligent to boot.


RE: Join The Resistance - Juniper - 11-20-2016

(11-19-2016, 03:06 PM)Scrapper Wrote:
(11-18-2016, 09:47 PM)Valuesize Wrote: Pence at the Hamilton show.


Thumbs Up
 So this clip is no longer available. Hmmm...and shortly after President Elect demanded an apology from the Hamilton cast, he tweeted: "I watched parts of @nbcsnl Saturday Night Live last night. It is a totally one-sided, biased show - nothing funny at all. Equal time for us?"  Does the President Elect not realize how he sounds?  This is how it starts.


RE: Join The Resistance - Valuesize - 11-20-2016

(11-20-2016, 11:09 AM)Juniper Wrote:  So this clip is no longer available. Hmmm...and shortly after President Elect demanded an apology from the Hamilton cast, he tweeted: "I watched parts of @nbcsnl Saturday Night Live last night. It is a totally one-sided, biased show - nothing funny at all. Equal time for us?"  Does the President Elect not realize how he sounds?  This is how it starts.

Yes, isn't ironic that the Constitutional/Patriots are responsible for electing the person who only cares about himself and what his wishes are and diddly squat about the Constitution?

Make America White Again


RE: Join The Resistance - Juniper - 11-20-2016

(11-20-2016, 11:22 AM)Valuesize Wrote:
(11-20-2016, 11:09 AM)Juniper Wrote:  So this clip is no longer available. Hmmm...and shortly after President Elect demanded an apology from the Hamilton cast, he tweeted: "I watched parts of @nbcsnl Saturday Night Live last night. It is a totally one-sided, biased show - nothing funny at all. Equal time for us?"  Does the President Elect not realize how he sounds?  This is how it starts.

Yes, isn't ironic that the Constitutional/Patriots are responsible for electing the person who only cares about himself and what his wishes are and diddly squat about the Constitution?

Make America White Again

Oh, and I forgot to add:  WHINEY.  Effing Republican WHINING.


RE: Join The Resistance - tvguy - 11-20-2016

(11-19-2016, 05:22 PM)Juniper Wrote:
(11-19-2016, 03:06 PM)Scrapper Wrote:
(11-18-2016, 09:47 PM)Valuesize Wrote: Pence at the Hamilton show.


Thumbs Up
Personally I find this clip interesting. There is a very fine speech made by Brandon Victor Dixon to Pence for inclusion and yes there was some hostility towards Pence.  You really can hardly hear it on the video that is all over social media as this one is.  But more interesting and notable to me is Trump tweeting that the cast of Hamilton was rude to Pence and needed to apologize.  Another find example of Right Wing WHINING.

 Considering that Trump once said he would support the 12th article of the Constitution and here again shows his complete ignorance it's an interesting stance.  The cast of Hamilton exercised their right of the First Amendment. Trump should be applauding their capability to use it.  I wonder if Trump will continue to Tweet after he is inaugurated.
I read that it was not the cast who booed but rather the audience. Not sure. haven't seen the video. the ones above don't work.
Edit. OK I found and watched the video. I didn't hear ANYONE boo? Anyway the cast was respectful so I don't wee what Trumps problem is other that the fact that he is an ASSBAG


RE: Join The Resistance - tvguy - 11-20-2016

(11-19-2016, 05:30 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(11-19-2016, 01:14 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(11-18-2016, 10:30 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(11-18-2016, 07:00 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(11-18-2016, 06:38 PM)Wonky3 Wrote: Well, maybe not ALL. It was real AMERICANS who provided enough (elctoral) votes for Mr. Trump to be our next president and commander in chief. Milliions of Americans are pleased beyond belief at the outcome. 

And still, there is always "The Loyal Opposition" (God knows the loyal opposition gave it to Mr. Obama with both barrels)

So we wait and watch. Given what we know about president elect Trump, he will stick his foot in his mouth sooner than later. He has the capacity not only to embarrass himslelf (and the country) but the arrogance to ignore laws that could lead to his downfall. Looking at the history of his behavior it's hard to imagine he will have a "conversion". 

But come hell or high water, or the second coming of Christ, he will be our president. 

We must be attentive and alert. 

(No...I won't be watching the inaguration ceremony: I'll read about it the following day)
 
We must be attentive and alert.

I think over the years I've heard you say "we must" more than anyone else. Razz

Anyway tell me how our attentiveness or how alert we are can accomplish anything?

So don't be attentive and alert. Some will be. The "we". 

And if you don't have a clue about how being attentive and alert can accomplish change, I can't help you. 

Or you could pick up this weeks New Yorker and read George Packers "Will Our Democratic Institutions contain Trump?" A place to start at least. 

Oh...that's right: You only read Craig's List. 

Never mind.

What do you mean you can't help me? Just tell me what you good being attentive and alert will do us for the next four years?
Attentive and alert people didn't put a rude crude lying clown of a TV star in the white house.

Wonky I read the MMT every day. My time on the PC almost always leads me to googling and reading about a great many things.
You can listen to my apathy and assume I don't have the knowledge but you would be wrong.

WE just had a clown elected by low intellect Facebook and talk radio morons and there's not a damn thing we can do about the coming results of that by being alert .


PS.. I read the article you mentioned below. It does nothing to change my opinion.










[/url]

[url=http://www.newyorker.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Aftermath-Packer-1200.jpg] 

hotograph by Philip Montgomery for The New Yorker
Four decades ago, Watergate revealed the potential of the modern Presidency for abuse of power on a vast scale. It also showed that a strong democracy can overcome even the worst illness ravaging its body. When Richard Nixon used the instruments of government to destroy political opponents, hide financial misdoings, and deceive the public about the Vietnam War, he very nearly got away with it. What stopped his crime spree was democratic institutions:
the press, which pursued the story from the original break-in all the way to the Oval Office; the courts, which exposed the extent of criminality and later ruled impartially against Nixon’s claims of executive privilege; and Congress, which held revelatory hearings, and whose House Judiciary Committee voted on a bipartisan basis to impeach the President. In crucial agencies of Nixon’s own Administration, including the F.B.I. (whose deputy director, Mark Felt, turned out to be Deep Throat, the Washington Post’s key source), officials fought the infection from inside. None of these institutions could have functioned without the vitalizing power of public opinion.

Within months of reëlecting Nixon by the largest margin in history, Americans began to gather around the consensus that their President was a crook who had to go.

President Donald Trump should be given every chance to break his campaign promise to govern as an autocrat. But, until now, no one had ever won the office by pledging to ignore the rule of law and to jail his opponent.

Trump has the temperament of a leader who doesn’t distinguish between his private desires and demons and the public interest. If he’s true to his word, he’ll ignore the Constitution, by imposing a religious test on immigrants and citizens alike. He’ll go after his critics in the press, with or without the benefit of libel law. He’ll force those below him in the chain of command to violate the code of military justice, by torturing terrorist suspects and killing their next of kin. He’ll turn federal prosecutors, agents, even judges if he can, into personal tools of grievance and revenge.

All the pieces are in place for the abuse of power, and it could happen quickly. There will be precious few checks on President Trump. His party, unlike Nixon’s, will control the legislative as well as the executive branch, along with two-thirds of governorships and statehouses.

Trump’s advisers, such as Newt Gingrich, are already vowing to go after the federal employees’ union, and breaking it would give the President sweeping power to bend the bureaucracy to his will and whim. The Supreme Court will soon have a conservative majority. Although some federal courts will block flagrant violations of constitutional rights, Congress could try to impeach the most independent-minded judges, and Trump could replace them with loyalists.

But, beyond these partisan advantages, something deeper is working in Trump’s favor, something that he shrewdly read and exploited during the campaign. The democratic institutions that held Nixon to account have lost their strength since the nineteen-seventies—eroded from within by poor leaders and loss of nerve, undermined from without by popular distrust.

Bipartisan congressional action on behalf of the public good sounds as quaint as antenna TV. The press is reviled, financially desperate, and undergoing a crisis of faith about the very efficacy of gathering facts. And public opinion? Strictly speaking, it no longer exists. “All right we are two nations,” John Dos Passos wrote, in his “U.S.A.” trilogy.

Among the institutions in decline are the political parties. This, too, was both intuited and accelerated by Trump. In succession, he crushed two party establishments and ended two dynasties. The Democratic Party claims half the country, but it’s hollowed out at the core. Hillary Clinton became the sixth Democratic Presidential candidate in the past seven elections to win the popular vote; yet during Barack Obama’s Presidency the Party lost both houses of Congress, fourteen governorships, and thirty state legislatures, comprising more than nine hundred seats.

The Party’s leaders are all past the official retirement age, other than Obama, who has governed as the charismatic and enlightened head of an atrophying body. Did Democrats even notice? More than Republicans, they tend to turn out only when they’re inspired. The Party has allowed personality and demography to take the place of political organizing.

The immediate obstacle in Trump’s way will be New York’s Charles Schumer and his minority caucus of forty-eight senators. During Obama’s Presidency, Republican senators exploited ancient rules in order to put up massive resistance. Filibusters and holds became routine ways of taking budgets hostage and blocking appointments.

Democratic senators can slow, though not stop, pieces of the Republican agenda if they find the nerve to behave like their nihilistic opponents, further damaging the institution for short-term gain. It would be ugly, but the alternative seems like a sucker’s game.

In the long run, the Democratic Party faces two choices. It can continue to collapse until it’s transformed into something new, like the nineteenth-century Whigs, forerunners of the Republican Party. Or it can rebuild itself from the ground up. Not every four years but continuously; not with celebrity endorsements but on school boards and town councils; not by creating more virtual echo chambers but by learning again how to talk and listen to other Americans, especially those who elected Trump because they felt ignored and left behind. President Trump is almost certain to betray them. The country will need an opposition capable of pointing that out.
 

From the above:  "officials fought the infection from inside. None of these institutions could have functioned without the vitalizing power of public opinion" 

Vital public opinon comes from fact based journalism, where professional journailsts have time and resources to investigate and report. Social media...not so much! I too read the Mail Tribune. I think it's a fine home town paper...keeps me up to date with what local stuff is going on (for the most part) but national news is "reprinted" from national news sources and of course the MT can't reprint the whole of the NYT, Washington Post, Wall Street Jouranal, or other good national papers. 

So, we stay attentive and alert not by browsing free internet sources but supporting fact based long form journalism. The only way to support it is to subscribe to at least one. Your comment about our electing a clown because of Facebook, etc, is right on poiint. 

But, make your own choices. I posted what is my own opinion. I feel it has merit, but if you don't, deal with these issues as you see fit. 

I'll bet we can agree that keeping tabs on what Mr. Trump and company does will matter in our lives. So YOU suggest a way to stay informed. (And as Packer says above, the power of public opinon is vital) 

OK but you still haven't answered my simple question. What good is being alert going to do you?
BTW I just posted the article you paid to read and I found it for free.

Your idea that everyone should pay for the long form journalism is great. If people did that instead of relying of facebook garbage.. that'ed be great.
But it's NEVER going to happen.


RE: Join The Resistance - tvguy - 11-20-2016

(11-19-2016, 08:07 PM)Juniper Wrote:
(11-19-2016, 07:49 PM)Valuesize Wrote:
(11-19-2016, 06:27 PM)Hugo Wrote: The biggest fantasy in this Wonky, is that you believe the NYT  and the Washington Post to be "fact based journalism".

Laughing Laughing

I've asked before without an answer. What are your top three favorite "fact based" news sources?

I recently saw a similar post on FB. Top answer:  InfoWars.  There you go!  America!

For the love of God, no wonder Trump got elected.


RE: Join The Resistance - tvguy - 11-20-2016

(11-20-2016, 11:09 AM)Juniper Wrote:
(11-19-2016, 03:06 PM)Scrapper Wrote:
(11-18-2016, 09:47 PM)Valuesize Wrote: Pence at the Hamilton show.


Thumbs Up
 So this clip is no longer available. Hmmm...and shortly after President Elect demanded an apology from the Hamilton cast, he tweeted: "I watched parts of @nbcsnl Saturday Night Live last night. It is a totally one-sided, biased show - nothing funny at all. Equal time for us?"  Does the President Elect not realize how he sounds?  This is how it starts.

 So this clip is no longer available. Hmmm

  It is available. I just watched it.


RE: Join The Resistance - Juniper - 11-20-2016

(11-20-2016, 01:44 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(11-19-2016, 05:22 PM)Juniper Wrote:
(11-19-2016, 03:06 PM)Scrapper Wrote:
(11-18-2016, 09:47 PM)Valuesize Wrote: Pence at the Hamilton show.


Thumbs Up
Personally I find this clip interesting. There is a very fine speech made by Brandon Victor Dixon to Pence for inclusion and yes there was some hostility towards Pence.  You really can hardly hear it on the video that is all over social media as this one is.  But more interesting and notable to me is Trump tweeting that the cast of Hamilton was rude to Pence and needed to apologize.  Another find example of Right Wing WHINING.

 Considering that Trump once said he would support the 12th article of the Constitution and here again shows his complete ignorance it's an interesting stance.  The cast of Hamilton exercised their right of the First Amendment. Trump should be applauding their capability to use it.  I wonder if Trump will continue to Tweet after he is inaugurated.
I read that it was not the cast who booed but rather the audience. Not sure. haven't seen the video. the ones above don't work.
Edit. OK I found and watched the video. I didn't hear ANYONE boo? Anyway the cast was respectful so I don't wee what Trumps problem is other that the fact that he is an ASSBAG
Well, if they did boo, it's not on that famously touted video, because I couldn't hear it either and the cast seemed polite.   At least Pence has issued the most politically correct and I mean CORRECT response:  That that's "what freedom sounds like." In this case, Trump could use some schooling from his VP.


RE: Join The Resistance - Valuesize - 11-20-2016

(11-20-2016, 02:01 PM)tvguy Wrote:
 So this clip is no longer available. Hmmm

  It is available. I just watched it.

Correct. It is just the video I selected from the particular YT account holder that deleted his/her account.


RE: Join The Resistance - Wonky3 - 11-20-2016

(11-20-2016, 01:56 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(11-19-2016, 05:30 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(11-19-2016, 01:14 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(11-18-2016, 10:30 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(11-18-2016, 07:00 PM)tvguy Wrote:  
We must be attentive and alert.

I think over the years I've heard you say "we must" more than anyone else. Razz

Anyway tell me how our attentiveness or how alert we are can accomplish anything?

So don't be attentive and alert. Some will be. The "we". 

And if you don't have a clue about how being attentive and alert can accomplish change, I can't help you. 

Or you could pick up this weeks New Yorker and read George Packers "Will Our Democratic Institutions contain Trump?" A place to start at least. 

Oh...that's right: You only read Craig's List. 

Never mind.
OK but you still haven't answered my simple question. What good is being alert going to do you?
BTW I just posted the article you paid to read and I found it for free.

Your idea that everyone should pay for the long form journalism is great. If people did that instead of relying of facebook garbage.. that'ed be great.
But it's NEVER going to happen.

<Snipped the long and already publsihed part of this no one wants to read again>

So...you said above:" BTW I just posted the article you paid to read and I found it for free."

As you well know there is no free lunch. You know, of course, the author gets paid, the publication has expenses, and it's on th WEB free for a limited number of views per month in the hopes that those who find value in it will pay. So, in a sense, you get to read it on my nickle. 

This publication is just one that I feel adds to my ability (however limited) to be informed and alert. Armed with facts, rather than biased opinion, I hope I can make better decisions about the people I vote for and the social interactions I have. 

Long form newspapers and periodicals are suffering because our population feels that free sources on the NET provides sufficient information. Trump's election may well be a prime example of folks getting what they think is good information from the WEB and especially social media. 

Whatever. I read both, and feel strongly that information from subscriber based sources are superior. 

But that's just me. Do as you will, but remember please that those of us who pay for subscriptions make it possible for you to view part of the content for free. 

PS: I do understand there are a few good sources on the NET that are not subscription based. Some seem to balance the books with advertising only. (Slate is a site I enoy and is free...unless one wants added content with "Slate Plus", for which there is a charge).