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Not Murder - tvguy - 05-11-2020

Everyone is screaming murder in the case of the poor black man who by a white and was shot just because he was a black man jogging Rolling Eyes
The headlines said he was "jogging" But actually 911 was called because he was seen running away from a house he had entered illegally. And there were other videos of him doing the same thing before.
And Travis McMichael and his father



Well as usual when the facts come in things don't seem quite the same as many want to believe. First of all the encounter with Ahmaud Arbery and Travis McMichael looks to me that clearly they were fighting over the gun when it went off. How is that murder? Murder requires premeditation. IMO the father and son upon hearing that a possible burglar was running down the street armed themselves and went after him.
Should they have?? No not in my opinion. But when I see the video it really looks to me like Arbery tried to take the shotgun away from Travis McMichael and that is why he ended up shot to death.
  

 https://abcnews.go.com/US/authorities-investigate-video-showing-ahmaud-arbery-prior-shooting/story?id=70600564


RE: Not Murder - GPnative - 05-11-2020

(05-11-2020, 03:31 PM)tvguy Wrote: Everyone is screaming murder in the case of the poor black man who by a white and was shot just because he was a black man jogging Rolling Eyes
The headlines said he was "jogging" But actually 911 was called because he was seen running away from a house he had entered illegally. And there were other videos of him doing the same thing before.
And Travis McMichael and his father



Well as usual when the facts come in things don't seem quite the same as many want to believe. First of all the encounter with Ahmaud Arbery and Travis McMichael looks to me that clearly they were fighting over the gun when it went off. How is that murder? Murder requires premeditation. IMO the father and son upon hearing that a possible burglar was running down the street armed themselves and went after him.
Should they have?? No not in my opinion. But when I see the video it really looks to me like Arbery tried to take the shotgun away from Travis McMichael and that is why he ended up shot to death.
  

 https://abcnews.go.com/US/authorities-investigate-video-showing-ahmaud-arbery-prior-shooting/story?id=70600564

Yes, i love how the story in all references refer to him as a jogger, not even daring to question it. When security footage shows otherwise. As a runner, show me his strava, or garmin, fitbit, etc, or if not even using a tracker, show me his social media speaking of his running exploits, i say it does not exist. In this day and age and in his age demographic, he would be posting his run info.
I do not agree with what the redneck hicks did by going after him, but a runner, errr jogger, he is not. Not to mention, no runners say jogging or jogger anymore only the media would pull out an outdated verb.


RE: Not Murder - Cuzz - 05-11-2020

You guys crack me up..   Laughing


RE: Not Murder - tvguy - 05-11-2020

(05-11-2020, 05:28 PM)GPnative Wrote:
(05-11-2020, 03:31 PM)tvguy Wrote: Everyone is screaming murder in the case of the poor black man who by a white and was shot just because he was a black man jogging Rolling Eyes
The headlines said he was "jogging" But actually 911 was called because he was seen running away from a house he had entered illegally. And there were other videos of him doing the same thing before.
And Travis McMichael and his father



Well as usual when the facts come in things don't seem quite the same as many want to believe. First of all the encounter with Ahmaud Arbery and Travis McMichael looks to me that clearly they were fighting over the gun when it went off. How is that murder? Murder requires premeditation. IMO the father and son upon hearing that a possible burglar was running down the street armed themselves and went after him.
Should they have?? No not in my opinion. But when I see the video it really looks to me like Arbery tried to take the shotgun away from Travis McMichael and that is why he ended up shot to death.
  

 https://abcnews.go.com/US/authorities-investigate-video-showing-ahmaud-arbery-prior-shooting/story?id=70600564

Yes, i love how the story in all references refer to him as a jogger, not even daring to question it. When security footage shows otherwise. As a runner, show me his strava, or garmin, fitbit, etc, or if not even using a tracker, show me his social media speaking of his running exploits, i say it does not exist. In this day and age and in his age demographic, he would be posting his run info.
I do not agree with what the redneck hicks did by going after him, but a runner, errr jogger, he is not. Not to mention, no runners say jogging or jogger anymore only the media would pull out an outdated verb.
Exactly


RE: Not Murder - tvguy - 05-11-2020

(05-11-2020, 06:25 PM)Cuzz Wrote: You guys crack me up..   Laughing
Well is it that hard to say why?


RE: Not Murder - tvguy - 05-11-2020

The reason no charges were files until much later after the shooting were because  One...Form the video it REALLY looks like the victim initiated the struggle over the gun.
And two the laws says no one HAS to back down in a situation like that.

What kind of your everyday innocent jogger refuses to stop and ask what the two men wanted? And what kind of a
innocent jogger tries to take the shotgun away from someone??
What kind of an innocent jogger decides to trespass and go in to someones house that is under construction to snoop around?


RE: Not Murder - Scrapper - 05-11-2020

What kind of your everyday innocent jogger refuses to stop and ask what the two men wanted? 

A black innocent jogger... up against 2 armed hillbillies.

And what kind of a innocent jogger tries to take the shotgun away from someone??

A threatened black innocent jogger afraid for his life.

What kind of an innocent jogger decides to trespass and go in to someones house that is under construction to snoop around?

Actually... the hubby and I have on a couple of different occasions. We weren't on a jog... we were on a walk. We didn't break and enter... the building process hadn't gotten that far. But we did walk through and look around... figuring out which room would be what (living, dining, bed, bath, etc.). But it seems that was okay... because we're white folk.


RE: Not Murder - chuck white - 05-11-2020

(05-11-2020, 07:58 PM)Scrapper Wrote: What kind of your everyday innocent jogger refuses to stop and ask what the two men wanted? 

A black innocent jogger... up against 2 armed hillbillies.

And what kind of a innocent jogger tries to take the shotgun away from someone??

A threatened black innocent jogger afraid for his life.

What kind of an innocent jogger decides to trespass and go in to someones house that is under construction to snoop around?

Actually... the hubby and I have on a couple of different occasions. We weren't on a jog... we were on a walk. We didn't break and enter... the building process hadn't gotten that far. But we did walk through and look around... figuring out which room would be what (living, dining, bed, bath, etc.). But it seems that was okay... because we're white folk.


I agree I too have looked at construction sites that one could just walk up to.
I have learned a few things, studying construction.


RE: Not Murder - Cuzz - 05-11-2020

(05-11-2020, 07:31 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(05-11-2020, 06:25 PM)Cuzz Wrote: You guys crack me up..   Laughing
Well is it that hard to say why?

Because I don't think either of you have any evidence to back up the stories you've constructed around this. A video that appears to show a struggle over a shotgun presents no evidence of how or why the struggle may have started. And he couldn't possibly be a jogger because he doesn't appear to have a gadget? Really?

I don't claim to know what occurred, I just don't think either of you know either.


RE: Not Murder - Cuzz - 05-11-2020

(05-11-2020, 08:37 PM)chuck white Wrote:
(05-11-2020, 07:58 PM)Scrapper Wrote: What kind of your everyday innocent jogger refuses to stop and ask what the two men wanted? 

A black innocent jogger... up against 2 armed hillbillies.

And what kind of a innocent jogger tries to take the shotgun away from someone??

A threatened black innocent jogger afraid for his life.

What kind of an innocent jogger decides to trespass and go in to someones house that is under construction to snoop around?

Actually... the hubby and I have on a couple of different occasions. We weren't on a jog... we were on a walk. We didn't break and enter... the building process hadn't gotten that far. But we did walk through and look around... figuring out which room would be what (living, dining, bed, bath, etc.). But it seems that was okay... because we're white folk.


I agree I too have looked at construction sites that one could just walk up to.
I have learned a few things, studying construction.

Yep, more then once I've been in houses under construction. Nothing nefarious about that.


RE: Not Murder - GPnative - 05-12-2020

(05-11-2020, 08:41 PM)Cuzz Wrote:
(05-11-2020, 07:31 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(05-11-2020, 06:25 PM)Cuzz Wrote: You guys crack me up..   Laughing
Well is it that hard to say why?

Because I don't think either of you have any evidence to back up the stories you've constructed around this. A video that appears to show a struggle over a shotgun presents no evidence of how or why the struggle may have started. And he couldn't possibly be a jogger because he doesn't appear to have a gadget? Really?

I don't claim to know what occurred, I just don't think either of you know either.

I have somewhere in the neighborhood of 300 miles logged this year, tracking every route I've taken. If he was an active "jogger" he'd have some sort of similar digital foot print to prove his run history, likely even routes through that same neighborhood. From the footage we have seen, his only crime is, Like you other folks here who have done the same, is trespassing.
I'm saying, The narrative began as he was an innocent jogger who was confronted and shot. I'm saying there is no evidence he was out for a jog at all. I see someone running away from people pursuing him for his recent trespass.


RE: Not Murder - Cuzz - 05-12-2020

(05-12-2020, 08:16 AM)GPnative Wrote:
(05-11-2020, 08:41 PM)Cuzz Wrote:
(05-11-2020, 07:31 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(05-11-2020, 06:25 PM)Cuzz Wrote: You guys crack me up..   Laughing
Well is it that hard to say why?

Because I don't think either of you have any evidence to back up the stories you've constructed around this. A video that appears to show a struggle over a shotgun presents no evidence of how or why the struggle may have started. And he couldn't possibly be a jogger because he doesn't appear to have a gadget? Really?

I don't claim to know what occurred, I just don't think either of you know either.

I have somewhere in the neighborhood of 300 miles logged this year, tracking every route I've taken. If he was an active "jogger" he'd have some sort of similar digital foot print to prove his run history, likely even routes through that same neighborhood. From the footage we have seen, his only crime is, Like you other folks here who have done the same, is trespassing.
I'm saying, The narrative began as he was an innocent jogger who was confronted and shot. I'm saying there is no evidence he was out for a jog at all. I see someone running away from people pursuing him for his recent trespass.

I see someone in running togs, jogging down the street towards an intersection with a truck parked there, not away from anybody. I'm not aware of any evidence those ol' boys even knew if the jogger had been in or at the construction site.

And you don't get to define how everyone else goes jogging.

I think you guys are being sucked into group think by your social media crowd.


RE: Not Murder - GPnative - 05-12-2020

(05-12-2020, 08:47 AM)Cuzz Wrote:
(05-12-2020, 08:16 AM)GPnative Wrote:
(05-11-2020, 08:41 PM)Cuzz Wrote:
(05-11-2020, 07:31 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(05-11-2020, 06:25 PM)Cuzz Wrote: You guys crack me up..   Laughing
Well is it that hard to say why?

Because I don't think either of you have any evidence to back up the stories you've constructed around this. A video that appears to show a struggle over a shotgun presents no evidence of how or why the struggle may have started. And he couldn't possibly be a jogger because he doesn't appear to have a gadget? Really?

I don't claim to know what occurred, I just don't think either of you know either.

I have somewhere in the neighborhood of 300 miles logged this year, tracking every route I've taken. If he was an active "jogger" he'd have some sort of similar digital foot print to prove his run history, likely even routes through that same neighborhood. From the footage we have seen, his only crime is, Like you other folks here who have done the same, is trespassing.
I'm saying, The narrative began as he was an innocent jogger who was confronted and shot. I'm saying there is no evidence he was out for a jog at all. I see someone running away from people pursuing him for his recent trespass.

I see someone in running togs, jogging down the street towards an intersection with a truck parked there, not away from anybody. I'm not aware of any evidence those ol' boys even knew if the jogger had been in or at the construction site.

And you don't get to define how everyone else goes jogging.

I think you guys are being sucked into group think by your social media crowd.

Neither does the media


RE: Not Murder - Cuzz - 05-12-2020

(05-12-2020, 09:37 AM)GPnative Wrote:
(05-12-2020, 08:47 AM)Cuzz Wrote:
(05-12-2020, 08:16 AM)GPnative Wrote:
(05-11-2020, 08:41 PM)Cuzz Wrote:
(05-11-2020, 07:31 PM)tvguy Wrote: Well is it that hard to say why?

Because I don't think either of you have any evidence to back up the stories you've constructed around this. A video that appears to show a struggle over a shotgun presents no evidence of how or why the struggle may have started. And he couldn't possibly be a jogger because he doesn't appear to have a gadget? Really?

I don't claim to know what occurred, I just don't think either of you know either.

I have somewhere in the neighborhood of 300 miles logged this year, tracking every route I've taken. If he was an active "jogger" he'd have some sort of similar digital foot print to prove his run history, likely even routes through that same neighborhood. From the footage we have seen, his only crime is, Like you other folks here who have done the same, is trespassing.
I'm saying, The narrative began as he was an innocent jogger who was confronted and shot. I'm saying there is no evidence he was out for a jog at all. I see someone running away from people pursuing him for his recent trespass.

I see someone in running togs, jogging down the street towards an intersection with a truck parked there, not away from anybody. I'm not aware of any evidence those ol' boys even knew if the jogger had been in or at the construction site.

And you don't get to define how everyone else goes jogging.

I think you guys are being sucked into group think by your social media crowd.

Neither does the media

I'm not sure they did.


RE: Not Murder - tvguy - 05-12-2020

(05-11-2020, 07:58 PM)Scrapper Wrote: What kind of your everyday innocent jogger refuses to stop and ask what the two men wanted? 

A black innocent jogger... up against 2 armed hillbillies.

And what kind of a innocent jogger tries to take the shotgun away from someone??

A threatened black innocent jogger afraid for his life.

What kind of an innocent jogger decides to trespass and go in to someones house that is under construction to snoop around?

Actually... the hubby and I have on a couple of different occasions. We weren't on a jog... we were on a walk. We didn't break and enter... the building process hadn't gotten that far. But we did walk through and look around... figuring out which room would be what (living, dining, bed, bath, etc.). But it seems that was okay... because we're white folk.

You really think the best course of action when someone has a gun is to instant try and take it away? That would be the last thing I would do.
As far as you  walking in to a house under construction how many times did you go in and snoop around? Because 
this dude went in several times.
I mentioned this mainly because he ran out of that house and that's why 911 was called.

But it seems that was okay... because we're white folk.


Really LOL and the fact that you two were older adults means nothing? What if your husband went in to a house when he was a white teenager and then a neighbor saw him running from the house?


RE: Not Murder - tvguy - 05-12-2020

(05-11-2020, 08:43 PM)Cuzz Wrote:
(05-11-2020, 08:37 PM)chuck white Wrote:
(05-11-2020, 07:58 PM)Scrapper Wrote: What kind of your everyday innocent jogger refuses to stop and ask what the two men wanted? 

A black innocent jogger... up against 2 armed hillbillies.

And what kind of a innocent jogger tries to take the shotgun away from someone??

A threatened black innocent jogger afraid for his life.

What kind of an innocent jogger decides to trespass and go in to someones house that is under construction to snoop around?

Actually... the hubby and I have on a couple of different occasions. We weren't on a jog... we were on a walk. We didn't break and enter... the building process hadn't gotten that far. But we did walk through and look around... figuring out which room would be what (living, dining, bed, bath, etc.). But it seems that was okay... because we're white folk.


I agree I too have looked at construction sites that one could just walk up to.
I have learned a few things, studying construction.

Yep, more then once I've been in houses under construction. Nothing nefarious about that.
Well yes I guess YOU would know that. Did you RUN when you left?


RE: Not Murder - tvguy - 05-12-2020

(05-12-2020, 08:16 AM)GPnative Wrote:
(05-11-2020, 08:41 PM)Cuzz Wrote:
(05-11-2020, 07:31 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(05-11-2020, 06:25 PM)Cuzz Wrote: You guys crack me up..   Laughing
Well is it that hard to say why?

Because I don't think either of you have any evidence to back up the stories you've constructed around this. A video that appears to show a struggle over a shotgun presents no evidence of how or why the struggle may have started. And he couldn't possibly be a jogger because he doesn't appear to have a gadget? Really?

I don't claim to know what occurred, I just don't think either of you know either.

I have somewhere in the neighborhood of 300 miles logged this year, tracking every route I've taken. If he was an active "jogger" he'd have some sort of similar digital foot print to prove his run history, likely even routes through that same neighborhood. From the footage we have seen, his only crime is, Like you other folks here who have done the same, is trespassing.
I'm saying, The narrative began as he was an innocent jogger who was confronted and shot. I'm saying there is no evidence he was out for a jog at all. I see someone running away from people pursuing him for his recent trespass.
From the footage we have seen, his only crime is, Like you other folks here who have done the same, is trespassing.
No argument there.


RE: Not Murder - tvguy - 05-12-2020

(05-12-2020, 08:47 AM)Cuzz Wrote:
(05-12-2020, 08:16 AM)GPnative Wrote:
(05-11-2020, 08:41 PM)Cuzz Wrote:
(05-11-2020, 07:31 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(05-11-2020, 06:25 PM)Cuzz Wrote: You guys crack me up..   Laughing
Well is it that hard to say why?

Because I don't think either of you have any evidence to back up the stories you've constructed around this. A video that appears to show a struggle over a shotgun presents no evidence of how or why the struggle may have started. And he couldn't possibly be a jogger because he doesn't appear to have a gadget? Really?

I don't claim to know what occurred, I just don't think either of you know either.

I have somewhere in the neighborhood of 300 miles logged this year, tracking every route I've taken. If he was an active "jogger" he'd have some sort of similar digital foot print to prove his run history, likely even routes through that same neighborhood. From the footage we have seen, his only crime is, Like you other folks here who have done the same, is trespassing.
I'm saying, The narrative began as he was an innocent jogger who was confronted and shot. I'm saying there is no evidence he was out for a jog at all. I see someone running away from people pursuing him for his recent trespass.

I see someone in running togs, jogging down the street towards an intersection with a truck parked there, not away from anybody. I'm not aware of any evidence those ol' boys even knew if the jogger had been in or at the construction site.

And you don't get to define how everyone else goes jogging.

I think you guys are being sucked into group think by your social media crowd.

I see someone in running togs, jogging down the street towards an intersection with a truck parked there, not away from anybody. I'm not aware of any evidence those ol' boys even knew if the jogger had been in or at the construction site.
They are not releasing much info but I read that the video in the house showed the Arbery inide the house several times.
The impression I got from what I have read is that the two men had seen the video and that's why they thought Arbery was the same guy.
I also wonder if they had a police scanner and that how they were able to find and intercept Arbery.


RE: Not Murder - tvguy - 05-12-2020

If those two guys were the police they would not be charged with anything. Arbery initiated the fight over the gun.
That doesn't excuse the two men. They had no right whatsoever to act like the police.
My issue is how can ANYONE simply decide what happened was because Arbery was black?

Also by definition unless I'm mistaken to murder means you have to plan to murder.


RE: Not Murder - tvguy - 05-12-2020

(05-11-2020, 08:41 PM)Cuzz Wrote:
(05-11-2020, 07:31 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(05-11-2020, 06:25 PM)Cuzz Wrote: You guys crack me up..   Laughing
Well is it that hard to say why?

Because I don't think either of you have any evidence to back up the stories you've constructed around this. A video that appears to show a struggle over a shotgun presents no evidence of how or why the struggle may have started. And he couldn't possibly be a jogger because he doesn't appear to have a gadget? Really?

I don't claim to know what occurred, I just don't think either of you know either.
 
A video that appears to show a struggle over a shotgun presents no evidence of how or why the struggle may have started.
Appears? So what you don't believe your own eyes?

And he couldn't possibly be a jogger because he doesn't appear to have a gadget? Really?
And you don't even consider that fact that he ran out of a strangers house? I'm not saying there is no possibility that he was only jogging. I don't see why that matters.

Especially when it's possible the two men had seen the video of Arbery in that house several times.If so it's not like they single out just any old jogger