Happy Columbus Day

[tvguy]

I think based on today's morals they were all despicable.

YES it was OK THEN!! Exactly.

 It's not about what I think. It's about was was OK . common, acceptable THEN!!!!!
It makes absolutely zero sense to judge people from the past based on what we all believe today.
And if people want to do that then at least be honest and stop acting like the natives were all freaking angels that sat around smoking peace pipes. VIOLENCE was a way of life for many.
 

It was not OK nor acceptable by everyone then or now.

And you seriously thought I needed to know slavery and conquering and claiming other lands is not acceptable NOW?

Dude what's wrong with you?
Yeah I'm pretty sure It was definitely acceptable for many countries to conquer other countries. And I'm pretty sure those who were conquered didn't find it acceptable. So if "acceptable" is the wrong word what about when I said that was the way the cookie crumbled... meaning it was NORMAL? Because it was normal.
Just try and find a country that was not conquered by another? People were brutal in the past, disrespecting them NOW is ridiculous.?

[GCG]

In other words, "SHIT HAPPENED" And you better believe that things that we are okay with now will be considered barbaric 200 years from now.

[Juniper]

I kind of concur.  I think it's a bit of a tempest in a teapot...I guess I just wonder what's to celebrate?  It should just be "I'm Italian!"  like St. Patricks and Cinco de Mayo.

 Does it have anything to do with the country Columbus was from? I think it's supposed to just be about when America was discovered... and yeah Leif Ericson,, whatever.

Well, if you look at Tennismom's post above, it seems that that is what has become.    Because what else is there really to celebrate?  We know he didn't REALLY discover the Americas.  Not literally.  Are we celebrating Columbus as a person?  Because he really is kind of despicable.

Well to Italians I'm sure it does give them some pride but to most of us it's nothing to do with Italy.

Are we celebrating Columbus as a person?  Because he really is kind of despicable.

Was he despicable then or was he just like any Spanish , English, or French explorers? Or Vikings?
Look what the Spanish did to South Americans? I think based on today's morals they were all despicable.

So it was OK because a lot of people thought it was at the time. Got it.

Well, it WAS acceptable in that time and culture. Notice who it was ok with; those in the position of power. Even those indirectly involved with that culture thought it was "acceptable".  Of course, it wasn't acceptable at all. Especially to who were adversely affected by it.  But that argument wasn't really an acknowledged one at the time.  It's just like American slavery and the view of the white people who owned them.  It was acceptable for a really long time, in the cultural ethics of the day. Even Lincoln who opposed slavery didn't think of blacks as equal.  These things take time to unlearn and new ways of thinking to come to bear.  So, no, it was NEVER ok.  But it was accepted by mores of the time. I still don't know what there is to celebrate in Christopher Columbus. ESPECIALLY in todays standards.

[Juniper]

I'm not sure that is what TV is trying to say here.  But what I don't get is what are we celebrating exactly?  That's why I don't care about it if the Italian Americans want to co opt it to just make it Italian American day! PASTA!

Not Italian.

Indigenous Peoples' Day is being observed today! It has been observed the second Monday in October since 1992.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_Peoples%27_Day

Maybe if they didn't make it  political by laying it over Columbus day they would get more appreciation for their actual people and culture.  Unless making it political is the point.  So, is it appreciation? Or political?  I am thinking political in this case. AND I can't say I blame them...I just wonder at the wisdom of it.

By the way, when I said "PASTA!" it was a bit of a pun on the word "BASTA!" which means "That's enough!"

[tvguy]

 Does it have anything to do with the country Columbus was from? I think it's supposed to just be about when America was discovered... and yeah Leif Ericson,, whatever.

Well, if you look at Tennismom's post above, it seems that that is what has become.    Because what else is there really to celebrate?  We know he didn't REALLY discover the Americas.  Not literally.  Are we celebrating Columbus as a person?  Because he really is kind of despicable.

Well to Italians I'm sure it does give them some pride but to most of us it's nothing to do with Italy.

Are we celebrating Columbus as a person?  Because he really is kind of despicable.

Was he despicable then or was he just like any Spanish , English, or French explorers? Or Vikings?
Look what the Spanish did to South Americans? I think based on today's morals they were all despicable.

So it was OK because a lot of people thought it was at the time. Got it.

Well, it WAS acceptable in that time and culture. Notice who it was ok with; those in the position of power. Even those indirectly involved with that culture thought it was "acceptable".  Of course, it wasn't acceptable at all. Especially to who were adversely affected by it.  But that argument wasn't really an acknowledged one at the time.  It's just like American slavery and the view of the white people who owned them.  It was acceptable for a really long time, in the cultural ethics of the day. Even Lincoln who opposed slavery didn't think of blacks as equal.  These things take time to unlearn and new ways of thinking to come to bear.  So, no, it was NEVER ok.  But it was accepted by mores of the time. I still don't know what there is to celebrate in Christopher Columbus. ESPECIALLY in todays standards.

Well, it WAS acceptable in that time and culture. Notice who it was ok with; those in the position of power.

Well of course when I speak of it being OK or acceptable I'm talking about developed countries with power, weapons ships and armies.




Do you mean it was only OK with the winners? So it was not OK for the ones who had less power? People? Weapons.
Not so sure about that. In all of the Americas the natives often went to war with each other.
The peaceful Indian was mostly a myth.

I still don't know what there is to celebrate in Christopher Columbus. ESPECIALLY in todays standards.

The hell with today's standards LOL. That's my entire point. Who the hell are we to sit here and judge what people by what they did 500 years ago?
And if we do why don't we do so justly? Why are the Indians we conquered revered by so many when they were as cruel, brutal and blood thirsty as we were?

People want to get rid of Columbus day and have an indigenous people day because Columbus did the same damn  thing to the Indians as the Indians did to each other


What's to celebrate about Christopher Columbus ?

"He led the first European expeditions to the Caribbean, Central America, and South America, initiating the permanent European colonization of the Americas."
He crossed the Atlantic four times. He was definitely a great explorer and I mean by "today's standards"

[Cuzz]

Well, if you look at Tennismom's post above, it seems that that is what has become.    Because what else is there really to celebrate?  We know he didn't REALLY discover the Americas.  Not literally.  Are we celebrating Columbus as a person?  Because he really is kind of despicable.

Well to Italians I'm sure it does give them some pride but to most of us it's nothing to do with Italy.

Are we celebrating Columbus as a person?  Because he really is kind of despicable.

Was he despicable then or was he just like any Spanish , English, or French explorers? Or Vikings?
Look what the Spanish did to South Americans? I think based on today's morals they were all despicable.

So it was OK because a lot of people thought it was at the time. Got it.

Well, it WAS acceptable in that time and culture. Notice who it was ok with; those in the position of power. Even those indirectly involved with that culture thought it was "acceptable".  Of course, it wasn't acceptable at all. Especially to who were adversely affected by it.  But that argument wasn't really an acknowledged one at the time.  It's just like American slavery and the view of the white people who owned them.  It was acceptable for a really long time, in the cultural ethics of the day. Even Lincoln who opposed slavery didn't think of blacks as equal.  These things take time to unlearn and new ways of thinking to come to bear.  So, no, it was NEVER ok.  But it was accepted by mores of the time. I still don't know what there is to celebrate in Christopher Columbus. ESPECIALLY in todays standards.

Well, it WAS acceptable in that time and culture. Notice who it was ok with; those in the position of power.

Well of course when I speak of it being OK or acceptable I'm talking about developed countries with power, weapons ships and armies.




Do you mean it was only OK with the winners? So it was not OK for the ones who had less power? People? Weapons.
Not so sure about that. In all of the Americas the natives often went to war with each other.
The peaceful Indian was mostly a myth.

I still don't know what there is to celebrate in Christopher Columbus. ESPECIALLY in todays standards.

The hell with today's standards LOL. That's my entire point. Who the hell are we to sit here and judge what people by what they did 500 years ago?
And if we do why don't we do so justly? Why are the Indians we conquered revered by so many when they were as cruel, brutal and blood thirsty as we were?

People want to get rid of Columbus day and have an indigenous people day because Columbus did the same damn  thing to the Indians as the Indians did to each other


What's to celebrate about Christopher Columbus ?

"He led the first European expeditions to the Caribbean, Central America, and South America, initiating the permanent European colonization of the Americas."
He crossed the Atlantic four times. He was definitely a great explorer and I mean by "today's standards"

Big whoop. I don't really care about Columbus. He's just another in a looong line of "explorers".

[tvguy]

Well to Italians I'm sure it does give them some pride but to most of us it's nothing to do with Italy.

Are we celebrating Columbus as a person?  Because he really is kind of despicable.

Was he despicable then or was he just like any Spanish , English, or French explorers? Or Vikings?
Look what the Spanish did to South Americans? I think based on today's morals they were all despicable.

So it was OK because a lot of people thought it was at the time. Got it.

Well, it WAS acceptable in that time and culture. Notice who it was ok with; those in the position of power. Even those indirectly involved with that culture thought it was "acceptable".  Of course, it wasn't acceptable at all. Especially to who were adversely affected by it.  But that argument wasn't really an acknowledged one at the time.  It's just like American slavery and the view of the white people who owned them.  It was acceptable for a really long time, in the cultural ethics of the day. Even Lincoln who opposed slavery didn't think of blacks as equal.  These things take time to unlearn and new ways of thinking to come to bear.  So, no, it was NEVER ok.  But it was accepted by mores of the time. I still don't know what there is to celebrate in Christopher Columbus. ESPECIALLY in todays standards.

Well, it WAS acceptable in that time and culture. Notice who it was ok with; those in the position of power.

Well of course when I speak of it being OK or acceptable I'm talking about developed countries with power, weapons ships and armies.




Do you mean it was only OK with the winners? So it was not OK for the ones who had less power? People? Weapons.
Not so sure about that. In all of the Americas the natives often went to war with each other.
The peaceful Indian was mostly a myth.

I still don't know what there is to celebrate in Christopher Columbus. ESPECIALLY in todays standards.

The hell with today's standards LOL. That's my entire point. Who the hell are we to sit here and judge what people by what they did 500 years ago?
And if we do why don't we do so justly? Why are the Indians we conquered revered by so many when they were as cruel, brutal and blood thirsty as we were?

People want to get rid of Columbus day and have an indigenous people day because Columbus did the same damn  thing to the Indians as the Indians did to each other


What's to celebrate about Christopher Columbus ?

"He led the first European expeditions to the Caribbean, Central America, and South America, initiating the permanent European colonization of the Americas."
He crossed the Atlantic four times. He was definitely a great explorer and I mean by "today's standards"

Big whoop. I don't really care about Columbus. He's just another in a looong line of "explorers".

 I don't really care either I just don't see the goofy logic in beating him up because he was like everyone else at that time.

And actually I don't think he was just another explorer. No one else at that time discoverd all of those places. I think it must have been pretty damn exciting for Europeans to hear about what he found.

[Cuzz]

So it was OK because a lot of people thought it was at the time. Got it.

Well, it WAS acceptable in that time and culture. Notice who it was ok with; those in the position of power. Even those indirectly involved with that culture thought it was "acceptable".  Of course, it wasn't acceptable at all. Especially to who were adversely affected by it.  But that argument wasn't really an acknowledged one at the time.  It's just like American slavery and the view of the white people who owned them.  It was acceptable for a really long time, in the cultural ethics of the day. Even Lincoln who opposed slavery didn't think of blacks as equal.  These things take time to unlearn and new ways of thinking to come to bear.  So, no, it was NEVER ok.  But it was accepted by mores of the time. I still don't know what there is to celebrate in Christopher Columbus. ESPECIALLY in todays standards.

Well, it WAS acceptable in that time and culture. Notice who it was ok with; those in the position of power.

Well of course when I speak of it being OK or acceptable I'm talking about developed countries with power, weapons ships and armies.




Do you mean it was only OK with the winners? So it was not OK for the ones who had less power? People? Weapons.
Not so sure about that. In all of the Americas the natives often went to war with each other.
The peaceful Indian was mostly a myth.

I still don't know what there is to celebrate in Christopher Columbus. ESPECIALLY in todays standards.

The hell with today's standards LOL. That's my entire point. Who the hell are we to sit here and judge what people by what they did 500 years ago?
And if we do why don't we do so justly? Why are the Indians we conquered revered by so many when they were as cruel, brutal and blood thirsty as we were?

People want to get rid of Columbus day and have an indigenous people day because Columbus did the same damn  thing to the Indians as the Indians did to each other


What's to celebrate about Christopher Columbus ?

"He led the first European expeditions to the Caribbean, Central America, and South America, initiating the permanent European colonization of the Americas."
He crossed the Atlantic four times. He was definitely a great explorer and I mean by "today's standards"

Big whoop. I don't really care about Columbus. He's just another in a looong line of "explorers".

 I don't really care either I just don't see the goofy logic in beating him up because he was like everyone else at that time.

And actually I don't think he was just another explorer. No one else at that time discoverd all of those places. I think it must have been pretty damn exciting for Europeans to hear about what he found.

Yeah, he kind of was just another explorer. Unless you place some sort of extra importance to the Caribbean, Central America, and South America.

[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_America][/url]Actually I think I'd give the nod to Portugal for producing an impressive number of explorers during the 15 century. Columbus wan't even the first to land in N America.

[Someones Dad]

Individual accomplishments can not be tolerated. The mantra of the Socialists.

[Juniper]

Well, if you look at Tennismom's post above, it seems that that is what has become.    Because what else is there really to celebrate?  We know he didn't REALLY discover the Americas.  Not literally.  Are we celebrating Columbus as a person?  Because he really is kind of despicable.

Well to Italians I'm sure it does give them some pride but to most of us it's nothing to do with Italy.

Are we celebrating Columbus as a person?  Because he really is kind of despicable.

Was he despicable then or was he just like any Spanish , English, or French explorers? Or Vikings?
Look what the Spanish did to South Americans? I think based on today's morals they were all despicable.

So it was OK because a lot of people thought it was at the time. Got it.

Well, it WAS acceptable in that time and culture. Notice who it was ok with; those in the position of power. Even those indirectly involved with that culture thought it was "acceptable".  Of course, it wasn't acceptable at all. Especially to who were adversely affected by it.  But that argument wasn't really an acknowledged one at the time.  It's just like American slavery and the view of the white people who owned them.  It was acceptable for a really long time, in the cultural ethics of the day. Even Lincoln who opposed slavery didn't think of blacks as equal.  These things take time to unlearn and new ways of thinking to come to bear.  So, no, it was NEVER ok.  But it was accepted by mores of the time. I still don't know what there is to celebrate in Christopher Columbus. ESPECIALLY in todays standards.

Well, it WAS acceptable in that time and culture. Notice who it was ok with; those in the position of power.

Well of course when I speak of it being OK or acceptable I'm talking about developed countries with power, weapons ships and armies.




Do you mean it was only OK with the winners? So it was not OK for the ones who had less power? People? Weapons.
Not so sure about that. In all of the Americas the natives often went to war with each other.
The peaceful Indian was mostly a myth.

I still don't know what there is to celebrate in Christopher Columbus. ESPECIALLY in todays standards.

The hell with today's standards LOL. That's my entire point. Who the hell are we to sit here and judge what people by what they did 500 years ago?
And if we do why don't we do so justly? Why are the Indians we conquered revered by so many when they were as cruel, brutal and blood thirsty as we were?

People want to get rid of Columbus day and have an indigenous people day because Columbus did the same damn  thing to the Indians as the Indians did to each other


What's to celebrate about Christopher Columbus ?

"He led the first European expeditions to the Caribbean, Central America, and South America, initiating the permanent European colonization of the Americas."
He crossed the Atlantic four times. He was definitely a great explorer and I mean by "today's standards"

I'm not sure  if that's something to celebrate though.

[tvguy]

Well, it WAS acceptable in that time and culture. Notice who it was ok with; those in the position of power. Even those indirectly involved with that culture thought it was "acceptable".  Of course, it wasn't acceptable at all. Especially to who were adversely affected by it.  But that argument wasn't really an acknowledged one at the time.  It's just like American slavery and the view of the white people who owned them.  It was acceptable for a really long time, in the cultural ethics of the day. Even Lincoln who opposed slavery didn't think of blacks as equal.  These things take time to unlearn and new ways of thinking to come to bear.  So, no, it was NEVER ok.  But it was accepted by mores of the time. I still don't know what there is to celebrate in Christopher Columbus. ESPECIALLY in todays standards.

Well, it WAS acceptable in that time and culture. Notice who it was ok with; those in the position of power.

Well of course when I speak of it being OK or acceptable I'm talking about developed countries with power, weapons ships and armies.




Do you mean it was only OK with the winners? So it was not OK for the ones who had less power? People? Weapons.
Not so sure about that. In all of the Americas the natives often went to war with each other.
The peaceful Indian was mostly a myth.

I still don't know what there is to celebrate in Christopher Columbus. ESPECIALLY in todays standards.

The hell with today's standards LOL. That's my entire point. Who the hell are we to sit here and judge what people by what they did 500 years ago?
And if we do why don't we do so justly? Why are the Indians we conquered revered by so many when they were as cruel, brutal and blood thirsty as we were?

People want to get rid of Columbus day and have an indigenous people day because Columbus did the same damn  thing to the Indians as the Indians did to each other


What's to celebrate about Christopher Columbus ?

"He led the first European expeditions to the Caribbean, Central America, and South America, initiating the permanent European colonization of the Americas."
He crossed the Atlantic four times. He was definitely a great explorer and I mean by "today's standards"

Big whoop. I don't really care about Columbus. He's just another in a looong line of "explorers".

 I don't really care either I just don't see the goofy logic in beating him up because he was like everyone else at that time.

And actually I don't think he was just another explorer. No one else at that time discoverd all of those places. I think it must have been pretty damn exciting for Europeans to hear about what he found.

Yeah, he kind of was just another explorer. Unless you place some sort of extra importance to the Caribbean, Central America, and South America.

[/url]Actually I think I'd give the nod to Portugal for producing an impressive number of explorers during the 15 century. Columbus wan't even the first to land in N America.

Your link doesn't work.

Yeah, he kind of was just another explorer. Unless you place some sort of extra importance to the [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caribbean]Caribbean, Central America, and South America

Yes I do think the new world, the Americas was totally extra importantt to the Europeans. And who cares if Leif Ericson was there centuries earlier.. Obviously Europeans didn't know this.

[Juniper]

Honestly if we are going to start celebrating explorers, lets celebrate astronauts. Or scientist. How about Galileo? I just think there is a lack of relevance with Columbus.

[tvguy]

Well to Italians I'm sure it does give them some pride but to most of us it's nothing to do with Italy.

Are we celebrating Columbus as a person?  Because he really is kind of despicable.

Was he despicable then or was he just like any Spanish , English, or French explorers? Or Vikings?
Look what the Spanish did to South Americans? I think based on today's morals they were all despicable.

So it was OK because a lot of people thought it was at the time. Got it.

Well, it WAS acceptable in that time and culture. Notice who it was ok with; those in the position of power. Even those indirectly involved with that culture thought it was "acceptable".  Of course, it wasn't acceptable at all. Especially to who were adversely affected by it.  But that argument wasn't really an acknowledged one at the time.  It's just like American slavery and the view of the white people who owned them.  It was acceptable for a really long time, in the cultural ethics of the day. Even Lincoln who opposed slavery didn't think of blacks as equal.  These things take time to unlearn and new ways of thinking to come to bear.  So, no, it was NEVER ok.  But it was accepted by mores of the time. I still don't know what there is to celebrate in Christopher Columbus. ESPECIALLY in todays standards.

Well, it WAS acceptable in that time and culture. Notice who it was ok with; those in the position of power.

Well of course when I speak of it being OK or acceptable I'm talking about developed countries with power, weapons ships and armies.




Do you mean it was only OK with the winners? So it was not OK for the ones who had less power? People? Weapons.
Not so sure about that. In all of the Americas the natives often went to war with each other.
The peaceful Indian was mostly a myth.

I still don't know what there is to celebrate in Christopher Columbus. ESPECIALLY in todays standards.

The hell with today's standards LOL. That's my entire point. Who the hell are we to sit here and judge what people by what they did 500 years ago?
And if we do why don't we do so justly? Why are the Indians we conquered revered by so many when they were as cruel, brutal and blood thirsty as we were?

People want to get rid of Columbus day and have an indigenous people day because Columbus did the same damn  thing to the Indians as the Indians did to each other


What's to celebrate about Christopher Columbus ?

"He led the first European expeditions to the Caribbean, Central America, and South America, initiating the permanent European colonization of the Americas."
He crossed the Atlantic four times. He was definitely a great explorer and I mean by "today's standards"

I'm not sure  if that's something to celebrate though.

 OK so I guess Columbus would have had to turn coal in to diamonds or something similar?

Why do we celebrate Christmas? It's based on Christianity. I thought we were the great melting pot what about the other fools who believe in a different mythological religions?     Presidents day?

Why do we celebrate New years day? Thanksgiving?

I'm not sure  if that's something to celebrate though.


I kind of get that. It's been celebrated by us and other countries for like a century. I'm not sure of any logical reason to stop.

[tvguy]

Honestly if we are going to start celebrating explorers, lets celebrate astronauts.  Or scientist.  How about Galileo?  I just think there is a lack of relevance with Columbus.

If we are going to "start' celebrating explorers?

  I just think there is a lack of relevance with Columbus.


  I suppose so but what I object to is the modern day reasoning for getting rid of Columbus day

[GCG]

Honestly if we are going to start celebrating explorers, lets celebrate astronauts.  Or scientist.  How about Galileo?  I just think there is a lack of relevance with Columbus.

If we are going to "start' celebrating explorers?

  I just think there is a lack of relevance with Columbus.


  I suppose so but what I object to is the modern day reasoning for getting rid of Columbus day

I object to it being a Federal holiday. IMHO, a day honoring him does not merit that recognition. Look at the names of the others that have Federal holiday status:

George Washington, Martin Luther King Jr. and Jesus Christ. The balance of the Federal holidays are not in honor of a particular person. As I said before, it REALLY is about keeping a paid holiday intact for certain workers.

But I 100% agree with tvguy on the part about the world being different then. Hell, they used to bleed people to get rid of disease. It was accepted. It was wrong. Move on and learn from our mistakes. Were we, as humans, expected to get it right from the get go? Well we didn't. And we have a long way to go.

[Valuesize]

Well, if you look at Tennismom's post above, it seems that that is what has become.    Because what else is there really to celebrate?  We know he didn't REALLY discover the Americas.  Not literally.  Are we celebrating Columbus as a person?  Because he really is kind of despicable.

Well to Italians I'm sure it does give them some pride but to most of us it's nothing to do with Italy.

Are we celebrating Columbus as a person?  Because he really is kind of despicable.

Was he despicable then or was he just like any Spanish , English, or French explorers? Or Vikings?
Look what the Spanish did to South Americans? I think based on today's morals they were all despicable.

So it was OK because a lot of people thought it was at the time. Got it.

Well, it WAS acceptable in that time and culture. Notice who it was ok with; those in the position of power. Even those indirectly involved with that culture thought it was "acceptable".  Of course, it wasn't acceptable at all. Especially to who were adversely affected by it.  But that argument wasn't really an acknowledged one at the time.  It's just like American slavery and the view of the white people who owned them.  It was acceptable for a really long time, in the cultural ethics of the day. Even Lincoln who opposed slavery didn't think of blacks as equal.  These things take time to unlearn and new ways of thinking to come to bear.  So, no, it was NEVER ok.  But it was accepted by mores of the time. I still don't know what there is to celebrate in Christopher Columbus. ESPECIALLY in todays standards.

Well, it WAS acceptable in that time and culture. Notice who it was ok with; those in the position of power.

Well of course when I speak of it being OK or acceptable I'm talking about developed countries with power, weapons ships and armies.




Do you mean it was only OK with the winners? So it was not OK for the ones who had less power? People? Weapons.
Not so sure about that. In all of the Americas the natives often went to war with each other.
The peaceful Indian was mostly a myth.

I still don't know what there is to celebrate in Christopher Columbus. ESPECIALLY in todays standards.

The hell with today's standards LOL. That's my entire point. Who the hell are we to sit here and judge what people by what they did 500 years ago?
And if we do why don't we do so justly? Why are the Indians we conquered revered by so many when they were as cruel, brutal and blood thirsty as we were?

People want to get rid of Columbus day and have an indigenous people day because Columbus did the same damn  thing to the Indians as the Indians did to each other


What's to celebrate about Christopher Columbus ?

"He led the first European expeditions to the Caribbean, Central America, and South America, initiating the permanent European colonization of the Americas."
He crossed the Atlantic four times. He was definitely a great explorer and I mean by "today's standards"

We celebrate him because we are direct relatives to one of his (CC) brother-in-laws.  (Pedro Corriera Cunha) 

[Cuzz]

Big whoop. I don't really care about Columbus. He's just another in a looong line of "explorers".

 I don't really care either I just don't see the goofy logic in beating him up because he was like everyone else at that time.

And actually I don't think he was just another explorer. No one else at that time discoverd all of those places. I think it must have been pretty damn exciting for Europeans to hear about what he found.

Yeah, he kind of was just another explorer. Unless you place some sort of extra importance to the Caribbean, Central America, and South America.



Actually I think I'd give the nod to Portugal for producing an impressive number of explorers during the 15 century. Columbus wan't even the first to land in N America.

Your link doesn't work.

Yeah, he kind of was just another explorer. Unless you place some sort of extra importance to the Caribbean, Central America, and South America

Yes I do think the new world, the Americas was totally extra importantt to the Europeans. And who cares if Leif Ericson was there centuries earlier.. Obviously Europeans didn't know this.

Not my link, I cut and pasted from your post and it came along.  

A lot of areas were important to the Europeans. But you can believe as you wish, it's not important.

And not to put too fine a point on it but some Europeans certainly did know.

[Juniper]

Honestly if we are going to start celebrating explorers, lets celebrate astronauts.  Or scientist.  How about Galileo?  I just think there is a lack of relevance with Columbus.

If we are going to "start' celebrating explorers?

  I just think there is a lack of relevance with Columbus.


  I suppose so but what I object to is the modern day reasoning for getting rid of Columbus day

Yeah, I get it. I also think that's why making it "indigenous people's day" is not the wisest.

[Juniper]

Honestly if we are going to start celebrating explorers, lets celebrate astronauts.  Or scientist.  How about Galileo?  I just think there is a lack of relevance with Columbus.

If we are going to "start' celebrating explorers?

  I just think there is a lack of relevance with Columbus.


  I suppose so but what I object to is the modern day reasoning for getting rid of Columbus day

I object to it being a Federal holiday. IMHO, a day honoring him does not merit that recognition. Look at the names of the others that have Federal holiday status:

George Washington, Martin Luther King Jr. and Jesus Christ. The balance of the Federal holidays are not in honor of a particular person. As I said before, it REALLY is about keeping a paid holiday intact for certain workers.

But I 100% agree with tvguy on the part about the world being different then. Hell, they used to bleed people to get rid of disease. It was accepted. It was wrong. Move on and learn from our mistakes. Were we, as humans, expected to get it right from the get go? Well we didn't. And we have a long way to go.

Well MLK day USED to be Abraham Lincoln day.  Maybe they could do some kind of amalgamation day.  Of all the shit people who got us here where we are now.

[Juniper]

Honestly if we are going to start celebrating explorers, lets celebrate astronauts.  Or scientist.  How about Galileo?  I just think there is a lack of relevance with Columbus.

If we are going to "start' celebrating explorers?

  I just think there is a lack of relevance with Columbus.


  I suppose so but what I object to is the modern day reasoning for getting rid of Columbus day

I object to it being a Federal holiday. IMHO, a day honoring him does not merit that recognition. Look at the names of the others that have Federal holiday status:

George Washington, Martin Luther King Jr. and Jesus Christ. The balance of the Federal holidays are not in honor of a particular person. As I said before, it REALLY is about keeping a paid holiday intact for certain workers.

But I 100% agree with tvguy on the part about the world being different then. Hell, they used to bleed people to get rid of disease. It was accepted. It was wrong. Move on and learn from our mistakes. Were we, as humans, expected to get it right from the get go? Well we didn't. And we have a long way to go.

Yep!  And in the same time period, burn people at the stake for "witchcraft".   I think they SHOULD get rid of it so it stops being a PC platform.