Opinions on new 62 by-pass
#1
I'm less than impressed by the design of the new by-pass. Specifically the positioning of the beginning and ending of it. Before they began construction, the primary bottlenecks were located at these locations: intersection at Poplar, (Fred Meyer), intersection at Delta Waters, (Olive Garden) and the intersection of 140. Once past 140 it remains busy until you get past the dom. 

Only the intersection at Delta Waters will get relief. Arguably the busiest spot is Poplar which will become even worse if new traffic is drawn to the by-pass that might otherwsie have gone up to exit 33.

Worse yet will be the back up at the new light that will merge the north end of the bypass with 62 just BEFORE where all the traffic used to get backed up previously.

They should have figured out a way to have the by-pass traffic flow directly off of I-5 with no lights or stops. And it should have proceeded all the way until the north end of the dom. with exits at say Delta Waters, Vilas and Antelope. Done and done. Maybe that is what the by-pass will look like eventually... but I've never seen any plans indicating it. What I do see is a bunch of money spent on something that will not solve the hwy 62 traffic problems.

Do any of you see it differently?
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#2
To be honest, I haven't really payed much attention to that project. I avoid Hwy 62 from 99 out to about Coker Butte Rd. like it has the plague. Unless I have to go to a particular business in that area for a specific reason and I can't sneak in from a back way, I just don't drive that road. Ever.
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#3
That’s why the freeway should have gone down North Phoenix and Foothill. There was nothing there and it would have avoided destroying Medford with the viaduct. Way too late now to ever fix.
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#4
(12-29-2018, 09:21 AM)GCG Wrote: I'm less than impressed by the design of the new by-pass. Specifically the positioning of the beginning and ending of it. Before they began construction, the primary bottlenecks were located at these locations: intersection at Poplar, (Fred Meyer), intersection at Delta Waters, (Olive Garden) and the intersection of 140. Once past 140 it remains busy until you get past the dom. 

Only the intersection at Delta Waters will get relief. Arguably the busiest spot is Poplar which will become even worse if new traffic is drawn to the by-pass that might otherwsie have gone up to exit 33.

Worse yet will be the back up at the new light that will merge the north end of the bypass with 62 just BEFORE where all the traffic used to get backed up previously.

They should have figured out a way to have the by-pass traffic flow directly off of I-5 with no lights or stops. And it should have proceeded all the way until the north end of the dom. with exits at say Delta Waters, Vilas and Antelope. Done and done. Maybe that is what the by-pass will look like eventually... but I've never seen any plans indicating it. What I do see is a bunch of money spent on something that will not solve the hwy 62 traffic problems.

Do any of you see it differently?

Well it won't be long before we will be able to see for ourselves how well it will work. Maybe I'm naive but I think the people who studied this did so with more knowledge and information than any of us have.
And your ideas seem good to me but probably a lot more, maybe twice as expensive to build.


Also the original plan was to have the bypass go to Dutton rd which in more inline with your thinking.
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#5
(12-29-2018, 12:29 PM)bbqboy Wrote: That’s why the freeway should have gone down North Phoenix and Foothill. There was nothing there and it would have avoided destroying Medford with the viaduct. Way too late now to ever fix.

North Phoenix - Foothill is going to be the emergency I5 "bypass". It'll be for if the viaduct falls down during the Big One. I5 traffic will be rerouted at Phoenix north to Hwy 140. It'll take them 20 years or so to complete but that's the plan. The next section to be widened is Hillcrest to Lone Pine supposedly next year(?). They've been surveying for it already.
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#6
Funny, now that I'm in a new place I'm on this stretch of town a lot. I used to NEVER go near Crater Lake Hwy. Now it's a bit hard to avoid, but I do my best to avoid it anyway. In general I am appalled at road design now. Everything seems to be designed to prevent access and regress directly off the main roads. This is everywhere I go I notice. But, if you don't know precisely where you are and what lane and what access to be at, you miss it entirely and often have to go a half a mile out of your way to correct your mistake. There's no way out. All accesses are denied. It's maddening
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#7
(12-29-2018, 12:44 PM)Juniper Wrote: Funny, now that I'm in a new place I'm on this stretch of town a lot. I used to NEVER go near Crater Lake Hwy. Now it's a bit hard to avoid, but I do my best to avoid it anyway. In general I am appalled at road design now. Everything seems to be designed to prevent access and regress directly off the main roads.  This is everywhere I go I notice. But, if you don't know precisely where you are and what lane and what access to be at, you miss it entirely and often have to go a half a mile out of your way to correct your mistake. There's no way out.  All accesses are denied.  It's maddening

Everything seems to be designed to prevent access and regress directly off the main roads


Of course you know that's on purpose right LOL. The less intersections the better the traffic flow. I guess you are talking about 62? If so once you get used to it and know where you need to go it's better now. And more safe.
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#8
(12-29-2018, 12:38 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(12-29-2018, 09:21 AM)GCG Wrote: I'm less than impressed by the design of the new by-pass. Specifically the positioning of the beginning and ending of it. Before they began construction, the primary bottlenecks were located at these locations: intersection at Poplar, (Fred Meyer), intersection at Delta Waters, (Olive Garden) and the intersection of 140. Once past 140 it remains busy until you get past the dom. 

Only the intersection at Delta Waters will get relief. Arguably the busiest spot is Poplar which will become even worse if new traffic is drawn to the by-pass that might otherwsie have gone up to exit 33.

Worse yet will be the back up at the new light that will merge the north end of the bypass with 62 just BEFORE where all the traffic used to get backed up previously.

They should have figured out a way to have the by-pass traffic flow directly off of I-5 with no lights or stops. And it should have proceeded all the way until the north end of the dom. with exits at say Delta Waters, Vilas and Antelope. Done and done. Maybe that is what the by-pass will look like eventually... but I've never seen any plans indicating it. What I do see is a bunch of money spent on something that will not solve the hwy 62 traffic problems.

Do any of you see it differently?

Well it won't be long before we will be able to see for ourselves how well it will work. Maybe I'm naive but I think the people who studied this did so with more knowledge and information than any of us have.
And your ideas seem good to me but probably a lot more, maybe twice as expensive to build.


Also the original plan was to have the bypass go to Dutton rd which in more inline with your thinking.

It would have certainly been more expensive and maybe even damn near impossible considering the colossal cluster fuck that is already in place at exit 30, what with the Biddle undercrossing etc... My point was that I have my doubts that they've solved anything with what they did do. Hwy 62 and Poplar will still be backed up and take 2 or 3 lights cycles to get through. And the north end will dump right into the south end of the next problem area... making it worse if anything. 

We can't seem to get it right on any major road project. The exit 27 interchange cost a fortune and it STILL backs up onto the freeway every morning. Anyone that has seen the exit 24 interchange knows what a mess that is. We spent a fortune on widening Vilas Rd and all we got out of it was bike lanes that you could drive a truck down... and no bikes to be seen.

The obvious answer is right in front of you... they need to ask ME how to do this shit right.
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#9
We lack frontage roads and exits all along I-5. Should have been one at south stage.
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#10
(12-29-2018, 04:37 PM)GCG Wrote:
(12-29-2018, 12:38 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(12-29-2018, 09:21 AM)GCG Wrote: I'm less than impressed by the design of the new by-pass. Specifically the positioning of the beginning and ending of it. Before they began construction, the primary bottlenecks were located at these locations: intersection at Poplar, (Fred Meyer), intersection at Delta Waters, (Olive Garden) and the intersection of 140. Once past 140 it remains busy until you get past the dom. 

Only the intersection at Delta Waters will get relief. Arguably the busiest spot is Poplar which will become even worse if new traffic is drawn to the by-pass that might otherwsie have gone up to exit 33.

Worse yet will be the back up at the new light that will merge the north end of the bypass with 62 just BEFORE where all the traffic used to get backed up previously.

They should have figured out a way to have the by-pass traffic flow directly off of I-5 with no lights or stops. And it should have proceeded all the way until the north end of the dom. with exits at say Delta Waters, Vilas and Antelope. Done and done. Maybe that is what the by-pass will look like eventually... but I've never seen any plans indicating it. What I do see is a bunch of money spent on something that will not solve the hwy 62 traffic problems.

Do any of you see it differently?

Well it won't be long before we will be able to see for ourselves how well it will work. Maybe I'm naive but I think the people who studied this did so with more knowledge and information than any of us have.
And your ideas seem good to me but probably a lot more, maybe twice as expensive to build.


Also the original plan was to have the bypass go to Dutton rd which in more inline with your thinking.

It would have certainly been more expensive and maybe even damn near impossible considering the colossal cluster fuck that is already in place at exit 30, what with the Biddle undercrossing etc... My point was that I have my doubts that they've solved anything with what they did do. Hwy 62 and Poplar will still be backed up and take 2 or 3 lights cycles to get through. And the north end will dump right into the south end of the next problem area... making it worse if anything. 

We can't seem to get it right on any major road project. The exit 27 interchange cost a fortune and it STILL backs up onto the freeway every morning. Anyone that has seen the exit 24 interchange knows what a mess that is. We spent a fortune on widening Vilas Rd and all we got out of it was bike lanes that you could drive a truck down... and no bikes to be seen.

The obvious answer is right in front of you... they need to ask ME how to do this shit right.
Laughing Laughing
I think the expected result was saving 7 or 8 minutes if you use the bypass. And those who don't won't have to deal with as much traffic.

Anyone coming from 140 and heading to I-5 to go south will be able to and probably be very happy with this bypass.
The same people heading north on I-5 I assume already take Kirkland to Blackwell.

All of those coming for anywhere North on 62 heading to I-5 will be out of the way. I don't see how this bypass can't help a lot.
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#11
(12-29-2018, 05:19 PM)bbqboy Wrote: We lack frontage roads and exits all along I-5. Should have been one at south stage.

On 99 at South stage if you look at the road that heads towards Bear creek you can see that they did plan to have a freeway exit there.
Maybe some day.
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#12
(12-29-2018, 06:10 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(12-29-2018, 04:37 PM)GCG Wrote:
(12-29-2018, 12:38 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(12-29-2018, 09:21 AM)GCG Wrote: I'm less than impressed by the design of the new by-pass. Specifically the positioning of the beginning and ending of it. Before they began construction, the primary bottlenecks were located at these locations: intersection at Poplar, (Fred Meyer), intersection at Delta Waters, (Olive Garden) and the intersection of 140. Once past 140 it remains busy until you get past the dom. 

Only the intersection at Delta Waters will get relief. Arguably the busiest spot is Poplar which will become even worse if new traffic is drawn to the by-pass that might otherwsie have gone up to exit 33.

Worse yet will be the back up at the new light that will merge the north end of the bypass with 62 just BEFORE where all the traffic used to get backed up previously.

They should have figured out a way to have the by-pass traffic flow directly off of I-5 with no lights or stops. And it should have proceeded all the way until the north end of the dom. with exits at say Delta Waters, Vilas and Antelope. Done and done. Maybe that is what the by-pass will look like eventually... but I've never seen any plans indicating it. What I do see is a bunch of money spent on something that will not solve the hwy 62 traffic problems.

Do any of you see it differently?

Well it won't be long before we will be able to see for ourselves how well it will work. Maybe I'm naive but I think the people who studied this did so with more knowledge and information than any of us have.
And your ideas seem good to me but probably a lot more, maybe twice as expensive to build.


Also the original plan was to have the bypass go to Dutton rd which in more inline with your thinking.

It would have certainly been more expensive and maybe even damn near impossible considering the colossal cluster fuck that is already in place at exit 30, what with the Biddle undercrossing etc... My point was that I have my doubts that they've solved anything with what they did do. Hwy 62 and Poplar will still be backed up and take 2 or 3 lights cycles to get through. And the north end will dump right into the south end of the next problem area... making it worse if anything. 

We can't seem to get it right on any major road project. The exit 27 interchange cost a fortune and it STILL backs up onto the freeway every morning. Anyone that has seen the exit 24 interchange knows what a mess that is. We spent a fortune on widening Vilas Rd and all we got out of it was bike lanes that you could drive a truck down... and no bikes to be seen.

The obvious answer is right in front of you... they need to ask ME how to do this shit right.
Laughing Laughing
I think the expected result was saving 7 or 8 minutes if you use the bypass. And those who don't won't have to deal with as much traffic.

Anyone coming from 140 and heading to I-5 to go south will be able to and probably be very happy with this bypass.
The same people heading north on I-5 I assume already take Kirkland to Blackwell.

All of those coming for anywhere North on 62 heading to I-5 will be out of the way. I don't see how this bypass can't help a lot.

I agree that traffic coming from 140 and heading to SB I-5 will benefit. But that is not the source of the congestion. Besides, those Klamath Falls assholes can just go down 97 to get on I-5 south. Unless they are coming to Medford to shop... in which case the bypass bypasses all of the shopping!  Laughing
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#13
(12-29-2018, 06:13 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(12-29-2018, 05:19 PM)bbqboy Wrote: We lack frontage roads and exits all along I-5. Should have been one at south stage.

On 99 at South stage if you look at the road that heads towards Bear creek you can see that they did plan to have a freeway exit there.
Maybe some day.

I have heard of a plan for an interchange there. I know there's been some preliminary discussion but who knows when.
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#14
The Manor and Centennial Golf course used their Medford good old boy connection to put the kibosh on it. Wouldn't have had to rebuild exit 24 and exit 27 if they'd have allowed it to be built.
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#15
(12-29-2018, 01:05 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(12-29-2018, 12:44 PM)Juniper Wrote: Funny, now that I'm in a new place I'm on this stretch of town a lot. I used to NEVER go near Crater Lake Hwy. Now it's a bit hard to avoid, but I do my best to avoid it anyway. In general I am appalled at road design now. Everything seems to be designed to prevent access and regress directly off the main roads.  This is everywhere I go I notice. But, if you don't know precisely where you are and what lane and what access to be at, you miss it entirely and often have to go a half a mile out of your way to correct your mistake. There's no way out.  All accesses are denied.  It's maddening

Everything seems to be designed to prevent access and regress directly off the main roads


Of course you know that's on purpose right LOL. The less intersections the better the traffic flow. I guess you are talking about 62? If so once you get used to it and know where you need to go it's better now. And more safe.

Yes, I do know. But it drives me crazy anyway. For instance the only way to turn West onto 62 from east side is Delta Waters or Poplar.  There are solid island barriers that keep you from getting onto the hwy otherwise. And not just 62, all over. Every natural point of access is cut off and you have to do some kind of fancy dance and know EXACTLY where to go in order to get in or out. For instance the MOD pizza over by the South Fred Meyers.  I was supposed to meet someone there, but wasn't exactly sure where it was.  I drove right by it. And by then it was so complicated to get back to it, I just said "Screw it" and drove on home.  Or the other day on 62 I wanted to go to lunch with my visiting son with at the Regency.  Now, I never go there, so I didn't really know where the entrance was. Well, don't miss it or you have to do a big loop to come back to it and get in.  It's just over the top fussy to get in and out of places.
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#16
(12-30-2018, 11:41 AM)Juniper Wrote:
(12-29-2018, 01:05 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(12-29-2018, 12:44 PM)Juniper Wrote: Funny, now that I'm in a new place I'm on this stretch of town a lot. I used to NEVER go near Crater Lake Hwy. Now it's a bit hard to avoid, but I do my best to avoid it anyway. In general I am appalled at road design now. Everything seems to be designed to prevent access and regress directly off the main roads.  This is everywhere I go I notice. But, if you don't know precisely where you are and what lane and what access to be at, you miss it entirely and often have to go a half a mile out of your way to correct your mistake. There's no way out.  All accesses are denied.  It's maddening

Everything seems to be designed to prevent access and regress directly off the main roads


Of course you know that's on purpose right LOL. The less intersections the better the traffic flow. I guess you are talking about 62? If so once you get used to it and know where you need to go it's better now. And more safe.

Yes, I do know. But it drives me crazy anyway. For instance the only way to turn West onto 62 from east side is Delta Waters or Poplar.  There are solid island barriers that keep you from getting onto the hwy otherwise. And not just 62, all over. Every natural point of access is cut off and you have to do some kind of fancy dance and know EXACTLY where to go in order to get in or out.  For instance the MOD pizza over by the South Fred Meyers.  I was supposed to meet someone there, but wasn't exactly sure where it was.  I drove right by it. And by then it was so complicated to get back to it, I just said "Screw it" and drove on home.  Or the other day on 62 I wanted to go to lunch with my visiting son with at the Regency.  Now, I never go there, so I didn't really know where the entrance was. Well, don't miss it or you have to do a big loop to come back to it and get in.  It's just over the top fussy to get in and out of places.

GPS?
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#17
(12-30-2018, 11:41 AM)Juniper Wrote:
(12-29-2018, 01:05 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(12-29-2018, 12:44 PM)Juniper Wrote: Funny, now that I'm in a new place I'm on this stretch of town a lot. I used to NEVER go near Crater Lake Hwy. Now it's a bit hard to avoid, but I do my best to avoid it anyway. In general I am appalled at road design now. Everything seems to be designed to prevent access and regress directly off the main roads.  This is everywhere I go I notice. But, if you don't know precisely where you are and what lane and what access to be at, you miss it entirely and often have to go a half a mile out of your way to correct your mistake. There's no way out.  All accesses are denied.  It's maddening

Everything seems to be designed to prevent access and regress directly off the main roads


Of course you know that's on purpose right LOL. The less intersections the better the traffic flow. I guess you are talking about 62? If so once you get used to it and know where you need to go it's better now. And more safe.

Yes, I do know. But it drives me crazy anyway. For instance the only way to turn West onto 62 from east side is Delta Waters or Poplar.  There are solid island barriers that keep you from getting onto the hwy otherwise. And not just 62, all over. Every natural point of access is cut off and you have to do some kind of fancy dance and know EXACTLY where to go in order to get in or out.  For instance the MOD pizza over by the South Fred Meyers.  I was supposed to meet someone there, but wasn't exactly sure where it was.  I drove right by it. And by then it was so complicated to get back to it, I just said "Screw it" and drove on home.  Or the other day on 62 I wanted to go to lunch with my visiting son with at the Regency.  Now, I never go there, so I didn't really know where the entrance was. Well, don't miss it or you have to do a big loop to come back to it and get in.  It's just over the top fussy to get in and out of places.

I'm 100% with you on this. Those businesses are terrible to naviagte in and out... Witham's, The Regency, The Ramada, Sherm's and everything else in that little area got royally screwed when they put that cloverleaf from hell in. And I'll tell you all what else... it all stems from the airport being in the middle of town. Look at Google maps and it becomes very apparent why it's impossible to get around.
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#18
(12-30-2018, 01:25 PM)GCG Wrote:
(12-30-2018, 11:41 AM)Juniper Wrote:
(12-29-2018, 01:05 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(12-29-2018, 12:44 PM)Juniper Wrote: Funny, now that I'm in a new place I'm on this stretch of town a lot. I used to NEVER go near Crater Lake Hwy. Now it's a bit hard to avoid, but I do my best to avoid it anyway. In general I am appalled at road design now. Everything seems to be designed to prevent access and regress directly off the main roads.  This is everywhere I go I notice. But, if you don't know precisely where you are and what lane and what access to be at, you miss it entirely and often have to go a half a mile out of your way to correct your mistake. There's no way out.  All accesses are denied.  It's maddening

Everything seems to be designed to prevent access and regress directly off the main roads


Of course you know that's on purpose right LOL. The less intersections the better the traffic flow. I guess you are talking about 62? If so once you get used to it and know where you need to go it's better now. And more safe.

Yes, I do know. But it drives me crazy anyway. For instance the only way to turn West onto 62 from east side is Delta Waters or Poplar.  There are solid island barriers that keep you from getting onto the hwy otherwise. And not just 62, all over. Every natural point of access is cut off and you have to do some kind of fancy dance and know EXACTLY where to go in order to get in or out.  For instance the MOD pizza over by the South Fred Meyers.  I was supposed to meet someone there, but wasn't exactly sure where it was.  I drove right by it. And by then it was so complicated to get back to it, I just said "Screw it" and drove on home.  Or the other day on 62 I wanted to go to lunch with my visiting son with at the Regency.  Now, I never go there, so I didn't really know where the entrance was. Well, don't miss it or you have to do a big loop to come back to it and get in.  It's just over the top fussy to get in and out of places.

I'm 100% with you on this. Those businesses are terrible to naviagte in and out... Witham's, The Regency, The Ramada, Sherm's and everything else in that little area got royally screwed when they put that cloverleaf from hell in. And I'll tell you all what else... it all stems from the airport being in the middle of town. Look at Google maps and it becomes very apparent why it's impossible to get around.

"cloverleaf from hell"   Laughing Laughing   But the airport wasn't always in the middle of town. Medford does seem to have growing pains. The freeway through downtown killed it, and the expanding communities to the North and East the shopping centers are making the airport side of town a real crunch area. And much of the surround land is airport land and property and can't be utilized.  I think my problem is that I'm very slow to adapt to changes. Everytime I drive by the new improvements and can't use them in the old ways I'm surprised, yet again! Laughing Embarrassed
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#19
(12-30-2018, 01:01 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(12-30-2018, 11:41 AM)Juniper Wrote:
(12-29-2018, 01:05 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(12-29-2018, 12:44 PM)Juniper Wrote: Funny, now that I'm in a new place I'm on this stretch of town a lot. I used to NEVER go near Crater Lake Hwy. Now it's a bit hard to avoid, but I do my best to avoid it anyway. In general I am appalled at road design now. Everything seems to be designed to prevent access and regress directly off the main roads.  This is everywhere I go I notice. But, if you don't know precisely where you are and what lane and what access to be at, you miss it entirely and often have to go a half a mile out of your way to correct your mistake. There's no way out.  All accesses are denied.  It's maddening

Everything seems to be designed to prevent access and regress directly off the main roads


Of course you know that's on purpose right LOL. The less intersections the better the traffic flow. I guess you are talking about 62? If so once you get used to it and know where you need to go it's better now. And more safe.

Yes, I do know. But it drives me crazy anyway. For instance the only way to turn West onto 62 from east side is Delta Waters or Poplar.  There are solid island barriers that keep you from getting onto the hwy otherwise. And not just 62, all over. Every natural point of access is cut off and you have to do some kind of fancy dance and know EXACTLY where to go in order to get in or out.  For instance the MOD pizza over by the South Fred Meyers.  I was supposed to meet someone there, but wasn't exactly sure where it was.  I drove right by it. And by then it was so complicated to get back to it, I just said "Screw it" and drove on home.  Or the other day on 62 I wanted to go to lunch with my visiting son with at the Regency.  Now, I never go there, so I didn't really know where the entrance was. Well, don't miss it or you have to do a big loop to come back to it and get in.  It's just over the top fussy to get in and out of places.

GPS?

Nope. Probably end up on Bear Camp Road in January. Then we'd have one less on RVF.   Sad
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#20
(12-30-2018, 01:47 PM)Juniper Wrote:
(12-30-2018, 01:25 PM)GCG Wrote:
(12-30-2018, 11:41 AM)Juniper Wrote:
(12-29-2018, 01:05 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(12-29-2018, 12:44 PM)Juniper Wrote: Funny, now that I'm in a new place I'm on this stretch of town a lot. I used to NEVER go near Crater Lake Hwy. Now it's a bit hard to avoid, but I do my best to avoid it anyway. In general I am appalled at road design now. Everything seems to be designed to prevent access and regress directly off the main roads.  This is everywhere I go I notice. But, if you don't know precisely where you are and what lane and what access to be at, you miss it entirely and often have to go a half a mile out of your way to correct your mistake. There's no way out.  All accesses are denied.  It's maddening

Everything seems to be designed to prevent access and regress directly off the main roads


Of course you know that's on purpose right LOL. The less intersections the better the traffic flow. I guess you are talking about 62? If so once you get used to it and know where you need to go it's better now. And more safe.

Yes, I do know. But it drives me crazy anyway. For instance the only way to turn West onto 62 from east side is Delta Waters or Poplar.  There are solid island barriers that keep you from getting onto the hwy otherwise. And not just 62, all over. Every natural point of access is cut off and you have to do some kind of fancy dance and know EXACTLY where to go in order to get in or out.  For instance the MOD pizza over by the South Fred Meyers.  I was supposed to meet someone there, but wasn't exactly sure where it was.  I drove right by it. And by then it was so complicated to get back to it, I just said "Screw it" and drove on home.  Or the other day on 62 I wanted to go to lunch with my visiting son with at the Regency.  Now, I never go there, so I didn't really know where the entrance was. Well, don't miss it or you have to do a big loop to come back to it and get in.  It's just over the top fussy to get in and out of places.

I'm 100% with you on this. Those businesses are terrible to naviagte in and out... Witham's, The Regency, The Ramada, Sherm's and everything else in that little area got royally screwed when they put that cloverleaf from hell in. And I'll tell you all what else... it all stems from the airport being in the middle of town. Look at Google maps and it becomes very apparent why it's impossible to get around.

"cloverleaf from hell"   Laughing Laughing   But the airport wasn't always in the middle of town. Medford does seem to have growing pains. The freeway through downtown killed it, and the expanding communities to the North and East the shopping centers are making the airport side of town a real crunch area. And much of the surround land is airport land and property and can't be utilized.  I think my problem is that I'm very slow to adapt to changes. Everytime I drive by the new improvements and can't use them in the old ways I'm surprised, yet again! Laughing Embarrassed

"I think my problem is that I'm very slow to adapt to changes"

I was thinking the same but it would have been different had I said it Razz
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