Moral dilemma

[PonderThis]

My late model pickup has a Cummins diesel engine, with the latest of environmental technology. Unfortunately, along with that, everything is computer controlled, and it involves some fancy stuff like sending exhaust gasses back through the engine and a particulate filter in front of the catalytic filter that gets plugged up with soot and then burns extra diesel to clean the soot up. If it doesn't like the way you drive, it plugs all the way up anyway, and you have to take it to the dealer for service at risk of destroying your exhaust system, basically. (Apparently what it likes is being driven hard at highway speeds, and dislikes the back country driving at slow speeds I often do, sometimes pulling a trailer). Up till now, these problems were all covered under warranty, so it's basically been only a nuisance that takes a 100 mile trip to the dealer no matter which way I go, counting return mileage too (and that's if it only takes one trip to solve). But now the warranty is up, so now the parts and labor are on my dime too.

I've looked this problem up online and lots of people have it, and there isn't much you can do legally but sit back and take it, and the dealers love it.

But, there's an answer people rave about online, and it involves taking all that factory emissions stuff off and replacing it with aftermarket parts that eliminate all that. It costs about $1300 for parts, and increases horsepower, eliminates this filter problem, increases mileage, and everyone raves about it. Of course it's illegal and probably increases emissions too. OTOH, I'd probably never get caught and I'd be willing to take the risk since I'm that sort anyway.

The emissions part is the part that bothers me most. On the other hand, the increased mileage seems like that might almost make up for that. And, as rural as I live, any trips to the dealer become a real nuisance too, in addition to the expense.

What would you do in a case like this?

[Valuesize]

My late model pickup has a Cummins diesel engine, with the latest of environmental technology. Unfortunately, along with that, everything is computer controlled, and it involves some fancy stuff like sending exhaust gasses back through the engine and a particulate filter in front of the catalytic filter that gets plugged up with soot and then burns extra diesel to clean the soot up. If it doesn't like the way you drive, it plugs all the way up anyway, and you have to take it to the dealer for service at risk of destroying your exhaust system, basically. (Apparently what it likes is being driven hard at highway speeds, and dislikes the back country driving at slow speeds I often do, sometimes pulling a trailer). Up till now, these problems were all covered under warranty, so it's basically been only a nuisance that takes a 100 mile trip to the dealer no matter which way I go, counting return mileage too (and that's if it only takes one trip to solve). But now the warranty is up, so now the parts and labor are on my dime too.

I've looked this problem up online and lots of people have it, and there isn't much you can do legally but sit back and take it, and the dealers love it.

But, there's an answer people rave about online, and it involves taking all that factory emissions stuff off and replacing it with aftermarket parts that eliminate all that. It costs about $1300 for parts, and increases horsepower, eliminates this filter problem, increases mileage, and everyone raves about it. Of course it's illegal and probably increases emissions too. OTOH, I'd probably never get caught and I'd be willing to take the risk since I'm that sort anyway.

The emissions part is the part that bothers me most. On the other hand, the increased mileage seems like that might almost make up for that. And, as rural as I live, any trips to the dealer become a real nuisance too, in addition to the expense.

What would you do in a case like this?

More info is needed. What is the price of the repair/service and how often is it needed?

[chuck white]

Drive in a lower gear and keep the rpm higher on back roads and uphill

[PonderThis]

I've tried that before. Doesn't work. (It kind of makes you look and sound like an idiot, too.)

ValueSize, I think it's several hundred dollars, but not sure on that, or the interval - it seems like at least every 25,000 miles, but this might be only the 2nd time for this exact problem in 75,000 miles (although the light comes on much more frequently than that, and it's been to the dealer many times for these problems - perhaps 10 in its 75,000 mile life so far). EDIT: Lithia Dodge says $400-$500 but he can't seem to find the exact price any better than that - meaning, bend over.

[orygunluvr]

Are you sure it's even required on your truck? A 24 valve cummins meets epa standards without a catalytic converter.

[rainylady]

Leave it the way it is and have the repair done.

[Valuesize]

Well I was wrongly focusing on the monetary aspect anyway...

To look at its environmental aspect, despite your claims of not driving a lot, you drive way more miles than those of us that live, work and shop in the city. If the alteration produces an overall more efficient vehicle and saves money too, I'd do it. Those folks you spoke of most likely bought the truck for similar reasons as you. They probably struggled with this dilemma also, but stated their approval.

I say do it or buy something else that suits your more current ever changing life situation.

[PonderThis]

Are you sure it's even required on your truck? A 24 valve cummins meets epa standards without a catalytic converter.

This particulate filter that's plugging up is inside the exhaust pipe, and before the catalytic converter. The error faults it causes eventually causes the engine to detune itself and it barely runs until you take it to the dealer.

[orygunluvr]

Are you sure it's even required on your truck? A 24 valve cummins meets epa standards without a catalytic converter.

This particulate filter that's plugging up is inside the exhaust pipe, and before the catalytic converter. The error faults it causes eventually causes the engine to detune itself and it barely runs until you take it to the dealer.

So it just strictly filters out soot? Is there a way to have an easy access type of alteration so when it happens you can clean it yourself? I have 2 cummins and have had no problems at all, but we also drive city and highway. When we go back country it is limited so we can use our ohvs.

[PonderThis]

Yes, it catches soot, and then periodically burns extra diesel to burn the soot out. But, not enough, apparently, if you don't drive enough highway miles (and, I haven't been lately, it's all been back country driving). No, there's no do-it-yourself method of cleaning it. I see Cummins NW offers a service special for it, and it involves baking it for 12 hours or some such. They also sell rebuilt replacements.

[Valuesize]

Yes, it catches soot, and then periodically burns extra diesel to burn the soot out. But, not enough, apparently, if you don't drive enough highway miles (and, I haven't been lately, it's all been back country driving). No, there's no do-it-yourself method of cleaning it. I see Cummins NW offers a service special for it, and it involves baking it for 12 hours or some such. They also sell rebuilt replacements.

WTH is the point of capturing it to be burnt at a later time by using extra fuel or 12 hours of baking? :wacko:

[PonderThis]

Improved emissions. Not improved mileage.

BTW, I ordered the kit. It should get installed on Saturday, a mechanic is coming to do it.

[Leonard]

Improved emissions. Not improved mileage.

BTW, I ordered the kit. It should get installed on Saturday, a mechanic is coming to do it.

If you lived in Josephine County, you could remove all of that since there are no smog inspections required for registration here.

That is probably why there are so many custom and hot rods running around JoCo.

[PonderThis]

It's not really considered legal in any state to remove emissions equipment, and some say it opens you up to a potential $2500 penalty. OTOH, you're right, there's no emissions testing in these rural counties, so unless a dealer turned you in somewhere (and how much more business could they expect to get after word of that gets around?) the chances of being caught are minimal, at least as long as I own the vehicle (and, I tend to keep them until they are very high mileage).

[tvguy]

Improved emissions. Not improved mileage.

BTW, I ordered the kit. It should get installed on Saturday, a mechanic is coming to do it.

If you lived in Josephine County, you could remove all of that since there are no smog inspections required for registration here.

That is probably why there are so many custom and hot rods running around JoCo.

You don't need DEQ emission checks for vehicles over 20 years old in Jackson county. So 99% of the street rods are exempt.

Ponder... It's not really considered legal in any state to remove emissions equipment, and some say it opens you up to a potential $2500 penalty.

I was going to mention that. I have a friend who works at the DEQ station and I was telling him that I was considering removing my catalytic converter because this was the last time my 1993 car will ever be checked.
He informed me that it was still a $2500 penalty if I got caught.

[PonderThis]

Moral Dilemma: The Results

$1220 worth of parts and $450 worth of labor later, this truck has been transformed into a raging performance machine the likes of which I could scarcely imagine. The error codes are gone, it no longer has the performance-robbing emissions equipment on it, and the mileage increase is also nothing short of dramatic - it's now running 22-24 MPG, versus the 16.5 it typically got before. I talked to some guys at a trailer sales place (I'm in the market for a 20' gooseneck flatbed trailer plus 5' dovetail), and they say they hear the same things all the time.

I realize all these "improvements" are at the sake of emissions, and I can't say that I feel great about that part even though I live and mostly drive rurally, too. On the other hand, how much more could we be improving national mileage and reducing fuel use with these kinds of changes, and who knew environmental restrictions were costing us so dearly? These results, btw, are with a large 4 wheel drive truck that must weigh close to 8000 pounds. I don't know if it's true or not, but the guys were telling me today they have diesel cars in Europe that get 80 MPG, but they don't pass U.S. emissions so they can't be sold here. Also, my truck now has so much power it's frankly ridiculous (I can now break the tires loose by flooring it at 70, just for example, far more power than anyone really needs), so I could be getting by with a far smaller engine too.

I now see what everyone on the diesel internet forums have been talking about firsthand. It still remains somewhat of a moral dilemma, too.

[chuck white]

What kind of kit did you install?

[chuck white]

Moral Dilemma: The Results

$1220 worth of parts and $450 worth of labor later, this truck has been transformed into a raging performance machine the likes of which I could scarcely imagine. The error codes are gone, it no longer has the performance-robbing emissions equipment on it, and the mileage increase is also nothing short of dramatic - it's now running 22-24 MPG, versus the 16.5 it typically got before. I

At $4/gal should pay for itself in 27,000 miles or so.

[PonderThis]

I didn't order it from this place, but it was these parts: http://www.puredpfdelete.com/catalog/dod...pecial.php

They called it a "dpf delete" kit, a "cooler delete" kit, and an "egr delete" kit, plus an improved air intake with 80% increased flow. I told the mechanic I was after more mileage and not more horsepower, but he still told me he dialed me in 50 more horsepower (using their computer chip to change the instructions in my trucks computer) and increased the top speed to 112 MPH (something I haven't tried, and may never).

[hillclimber]

I wouldn't even think about it.. Done deal..