North Dakota Considers Eliminating Property Tax

[Simon Peter]

BISMARCK, N.D. — Since Californians shrank their property taxes more than three decades ago by passing Proposition 13, people around the nation have echoed their dismay over such levies, putting forth plans to even them, simplify them, cap them, slash them. In an election here on Tuesday, residents of North Dakota will consider a measure that reaches far beyond any of that — one that abolishes the property tax entirely.

“I would like to be able to know that my home, no matter what happens to my income or my life, is not going to be taken away from me because I can’t pay a tax,” said Susan Beehler, one in a group of North Dakotans who have pressed for an amendment to the state’s Constitution to end the property tax. They argue that the tax is unpredictable, inconsistent, counter to the concept of property ownership and needless in a state that, thanks in part to wildly successful oil drilling, finds itself in the rare circumstance of carrying budget reserves.

“When,” Ms. Beehler asked, “did we come to believe that government should get rich and we should get poor?”
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/12/us/nor...y-tax.html

I'd like to see this done in Oregon, but we can start in JOCO.

[PonderThis]

58 cents is too much to pay, I agree.

[Simon Peter]

1 cent is too much to pay the king each year on something you should own outright.

[PonderThis]

How do you propose the king supply you roads, policing, jailing, firefighting, and all the other services you've come to expect from the king? Do you think the king will suddenly become benevolent and start doing all those things for you for free, paying for it out of his own pocket instead?

Kings aren't normally known for their totally altruistic nature, you know. Although I'd try to be that kind of king myself.

[PonderThis]

It probably helps if the king suddenly was rich with oil shale money though. That might help finance a lot of citizen philanthropy. And, if he's lucky, he'll be dead and gone before the citizenry becomes enraged over whatever environmental devastation is left, so it won't matter anyway.

[hillclimber]

How do you propose the king supply you roads, policing, jailing, firefighting, and all the other services you've come to expect from the king?

I don't know, but private property taxes should never be included in the kings budget.

[Willie Krash]

Hey, where did that street come from in front of my house!!

My property taxes run less than $200 a month. Actually about $150 if my memory serves me correctly. A little more than my satellite bill.

What do I get? Streets, police when I need one, a fireman, a water distribution network, parks and education for your kids. So what if we give this over to the private sector? Not a dream come through for me.

Now back to my old mantra. The worth of this country isn't Lenin paper with dead presidents on it. It is the value of our infrastructure, our public works and education to our young. An often missed value is the health of our citizenry.

The value many want with "no Tax" can be seen all over the third world. What's up with Sweden?

BTW Honeywell CEO David Cote says corporate tax rate should be 0% if we are to create jobs. He states if we do so corporate America will create jobs. Honeywell made $825M last year. That was over $100M more than 2010. Over the last four years Honeywell effective tax rate was 2% (between 2008-2010 a rate of -0.7%).
Honeywell cut 1000 jobs during that period.
H/T crooks and liars.

[bbqboy]

I say let the donut shop burn. Simon can shoot a gusher of water to put it out like Jed Clampett. Good riddance.

[Simon Peter]

Hey, where did that street come from in front of my house!!

My property taxes run less than $200 a month. Actually about $150 if my memory serves me correctly. A little more than my satellite bill.

What do I get? Streets, police when I need one, a fireman, a water distribution network, parks and education for your kids. So what if we give this over to the private sector? Not a dream come through for me.

Now back to my old mantra. The worth of this country isn't Lenin paper with dead presidents on it. It is the value of our infrastructure, our public works and education to our young. An often missed value is the health of our citizenry.

The value many want with "no Tax" can be seen all over the third world. What's up with Sweden?

BTW Honeywell CEO David Cote says corporate tax rate should be 0% if we are to create jobs. He states if we do so corporate America will create jobs. Honeywell made $825M last year. That was over $100M more than 2010. Over the last four years Honeywell effective tax rate was 2% (between 2008-2010 a rate of -0.7%).
Honeywell cut 1000 jobs during that period.
H/T crooks and liars.

Yup and all them other roads I don't need. Nothing the private sector can't provide for peeps that want or need the service. Don't use the parks and public education is a joke. Nanny nanny nanny state.

[Willie Krash]

Sure SP. Why does the state build a freeway overpass? Will the private sector? Could you get the services I described for a buck and a half a month?

So a country full of dirt roads, no public works, no airports, no mobility is the dream. The world is full of those dream countries. Drink from a river and go blind.

You can fulfill your dream with one ticket.

[bbqboy]

We'll pay for it too.

[orygunluvr]

Hey, where did that street come from in front of my house!!

My property taxes run less than $200 a month. Actually about $150 if my memory serves me correctly. A little more than my satellite bill.

What do I get? Streets, police when I need one, a fireman, a water distribution network, parks and education for your kids. So what if we give this over to the private sector? Not a dream come through for me.

Now back to my old mantra. The worth of this country isn't Lenin paper with dead presidents on it. It is the value of our infrastructure, our public works and education to our young. An often missed value is the health of our citizenry.

The value many want with "no Tax" can be seen all over the third world. What's up with Sweden?

BTW Honeywell CEO David Cote says corporate tax rate should be 0% if we are to create jobs. He states if we do so corporate America will create jobs. Honeywell made $825M last year. That was over $100M more than 2010. Over the last four years Honeywell effective tax rate was 2% (between 2008-2010 a rate of -0.7%).
Honeywell cut 1000 jobs during that period.
H/T crooks and liars.

Actually willie, some of the roads, infrastructure, parks, police, and fire stations are in master planned communities and are paid for with private money, then when a development is completed they are dedicated to the municipalities they are constructed in. Most of the roads and development in commercially zoned areas are paid for and done by the developer as well, then dedicated to the municipalities they are constructed in.

[PonderThis]

Actually willie, some of the roads, infrastructure, parks, police, and fire stations are in master planned communities and are paid for with private money, then when a development is completed they are dedicated to the municipalities they are constructed in. Most of the roads and development in commercially zoned areas are paid for and done by the developer as well, then dedicated to the municipalities they are constructed in.

...and then, the municipality agrees to maintain said improvements in perpetuity. It seems like a fair tradeoff to me.

[orygunluvr]

Actually willie, some of the roads, infrastructure, parks, police, and fire stations are in master planned communities and are paid for with private money, then when a development is completed they are dedicated to the municipalities they are constructed in. Most of the roads and development in commercially zoned areas are paid for and done by the developer as well, then dedicated to the municipalities they are constructed in.

...and then, the municipality agrees to maintain said improvements in perpetuity. It seems like a fair tradeoff to me.

Absolutely, but maintenance is always lacking, it provides for the construction to be done without prevailing wages applied, and people like willie still claim that government does it all.

[bbqboy]

What does that have to do with an Interstate overpass?
Using subdivisions as an example is disingenuous at best.

[PonderThis]

it provides for the construction to be done without prevailing wages applied

Surely you're not in favor of government forcing private companies to pay certain wages, are you? That sounds like communism to me.

[orygunluvr]

What does that have to do with an Interstate overpass?
Using subdivisions as an example is disingenuous at best.

An interstate overpass is federal, willies list is all municipal or state. North Dakota property taxes wouldn't be applied to interstates or overpasses on interstates.

[Willie Krash]

They indeed are Ol. I used a Freeway overpass quite deliberately. I must say by and large the private sector gifts the road and really don't want the headache.

You have come full circle I see and must have read my many posts that the country's success is in a large part due to gov't/business partnerships. Welcome on board. Also the private sector pays SDC's, you should applaud this.

For SP, if the private sector can do it all could you explain why we have poverty and third world countries? Africa is resource rich. India has huge poverty issues. China has 90% of it people in abject poverty. These are old cultures I might add. Why did the USA excel?

[orygunluvr]

They indeed are Ol. I used a Freeway overpass quite deliberately. I must say by and large the private sector gifts the road and really don't want the headache.

You have come full circle I see and must have read my many posts that the country's success is in a large part due to gov't/business partnerships. Welcome on board. Also the private sector pays SDC's, you should applaud this.

For SP, if the private sector can do it all could you explain why we have poverty and third world countries? Africa is resource rich. India has huge poverty issues. China has 90% of it people in abject poverty. These are old cultures I might add. Why did the USA excel?

It's not often you contradict yourself willie, especially within a few posts. If it wasn't for private sector there would be no government ANYTHING. Remember where taxes come from willie? We could have all the government in the world, but without taxes we have no funding, because simply put government is a consumer.

[Willie Krash]

What does that have to do with an Interstate overpass?
Using subdivisions as an example is disingenuous at best.

An interstate overpass is federal, willies list is all municipal or state. North Dakota property taxes wouldn't be applied to interstates or overpasses on interstates.

My point was Re SP point that the private sector will do it all. Let us not forget the state or a local subdivision does ot builds roads. The private sector does.