What do you do on an average work day?

[Scrapper]

I want to know what the 9 minutes of "Other" is all about!

[illcommandante]

It's ninety miles to the huckleberries (And, not all the best road). I'll be having my coffee, while I wait for it to get light enough to pick. Then, for fourteen hours, I'll pick non stop. And hope I get down the mountain with seven gallons. And, it's two hours back down. For a hundred and sixty four slices of pie. And, a day later, I have to do it all over again. And a day later, I have to do it all over again. Does it get any better than this? Plus, I get the hornet stings.

[Clone]

It's ninety miles to the huckleberries (And, not all the best road). I'll be having my coffee, while I wait for it to get light enough to pick. Then, for fourteen hours, I'll pick non stop. And hope I get down the mountain with seven gallons. And, it's two hours back down. For a hundred and sixty four slices of pie. And, a day later, I have to do it all over again. And a day later, I have to do it all over again. Does it get any better than this? Plus, I get the hornet stings.

If I'm ever lucky enough to get a slice of that pie I know I will taste all the effort that went into making it.
That's some special pie you make, illcommandante!

[Larry]

You couldn't deal with my day.

[Larry]

It's ninety miles to the huckleberries (And, not all the best road). I'll be having my coffee, while I wait for it to get light enough to pick. Then, for fourteen hours, I'll pick non stop. And hope I get down the mountain with seven gallons. And, it's two hours back down. For a hundred and sixty four slices of pie. And, a day later, I have to do it all over again. And a day later, I have to do it all over again. Does it get any better than this? Plus, I get the hornet stings.

Huh. I was there today. Did I see you?

[Crazylace]

You couldn't deal with my day.

I hear ya, Larry.

[PonderThis]

You couldn't deal with my day.

Even in a work environment I imagine others get tired of being told fuck you. I doubt it works very well.

[Willie Krash]

Even in a work environment I imagine others get tired of being told fuck you. I doubt it works very well.

I searched f*ck you here. A lot of them out there, most single source.
I really don't mind a good F**K you. It comes in handy once in a while. It typically isn't a line for all occasions.
I don't like liver and onions, F**K you.
Now back to work,
I don't want to get paid what I'm worth, I don't work that cheap.
Oh and F**K me. Saves time that way.

[Tiamat]

You couldn't deal with my day.

And likewise here.

[Wonky]

I know it's become an awful cliche, but "been there, done that"

But I worked back in the day when things made sense and they paid us a decent day's pay for a good day's work. Things now are like some kind of Lewis Carroll life.

Many here on our forum are opposed to collective bargaining. Unions have often been shady, corrupt, and too powerful. But that is a different argument for a different day. As Union membership started to drop in the early 70's, wages began to stagnate. Of course there are many factors to consider here, but it simply can't be ignored that collective bargaining drove wages to a fair place for 50 years.

So we allowed other societies to provide cheap goods and our workers no longer could compete. And guess what those countries could offer to make all this possible? A lack of collective bargaining in the work force: Therefore, cheap labor. THERE ARE ONLY TWO REASONS WE OUTSOURCE OUR BUSINESS: CHEAP LABOR AND LACK OF ENVIRONMENTAL STANDARDS!

There is a point where return on capital changes from good profits to pure greed. There is NO disputing the fact that there is now more capital for investment that anytime in the history of the world. And, it's hoarded by only a very few.

So, what is the "average worker" (wage earner) worth? I don't know, and neither do you because greed has unbalanced the labor market so much that it no longer makes sense.

What do you do on an average work day? I hope you give your employer a good days work and I hope your employer respects your labor enough to ignore greed and pay you for the contribution you make to the profit.

So, it's time we see the working people in China, Vietnam, and other places paying near slave labor prices, as our brothers and sisters, laboring people who are being exploited. In a perfect world, Organized Labor would be sending thousands of people to help organize these workers. China does not have enough police to keep us out if we really are dedicated. Our history in the U.S. proves the point.

Don't like Unions? Fine, expect that at least one of your adult children might very well be moving in with you. Even the kid who graduated with that four year degree in whatever.

There is a balance. It's now tipped out of whack.

On this, Labor Day, I'm suggesting we work to tip it back our way. If you feel that the conservative thinking of "right to work" is the answer, go with it. Then, maybe think about moving to Sweden or anyplace that offers social options.

"Fairness" is okay to demand. Let's do it. Sooner than later.

[GoCometsGo]

I know it's become an awful cliche, but "been there, done that"

But I worked back in the day when things made sense and they paid us a decent day's pay for a good day's work. Things now are like some kind of Lewis Carroll life.

Many here on our forum are opposed to collective bargaining. Unions have often been shady, corrupt, and too powerful. But that is a different argument for a different day. As Union membership started to drop in the early 70's, wages began to stagnate. Of course there are many factors to consider here, but it simply can't be ignored that collective bargaining drove wages to a fair place for 50 years.

So we allowed other societies to provide cheap goods and our workers no longer could compete. And guess what those countries could offer to make all this possible? A lack of collective bargaining in the work force: Therefore, cheap labor. THERE ARE ONLY TWO REASONS WE OUTSOURCE OUR BUSINESS: CHEAP LABOR AND LACK OF ENVIRONMENTAL STANDARDS!

There is a point where return on capital changes from good profits to pure greed. There is NO disputing the fact that there is now more capital for investment that anytime in the history of the world. And, it's hoarded by only a very few.

So, what is the "average worker" (wage earner) worth? I don't know, and neither do you because greed has unbalanced the labor market so much that it no longer makes sense.

What do you do on an average work day? I hope you give your employer a good days work and I hope your employer respects your labor enough to ignore greed and pay you for the contribution you make to the profit.

So, it's time we see the working people in China, Vietnam, and other places paying near slave labor prices, as our brothers and sisters, laboring people who are being exploited. In a perfect world, Organized Labor would be sending thousands of people to help organize these workers. China does not have enough police to keep us out if we really are dedicated. Our history in the U.S. proves the point.

Don't like Unions? Fine, expect that at least one of your adult children might very well be moving in with you. Even the kid who graduated with that four year degree in whatever.

There is a balance. It's now tipped out of whack.

On this, Labor Day, I'm suggesting we work to tip it back our way. If you feel that the conservative thinking of "right to work" is the answer, go with it. Then, maybe think about moving to Sweden or anyplace that offers social options.

"Fairness" is okay to demand. Let's do it. Sooner than later.

One reason that collective bargaining has gone out of fashion is because the unions have made a bad name for themselves. Unsustainable pensions, excessive time off and sick days, promotions based on seniority rather than performance. Talk about greed! The unions are NOT immune to greed. Greed is what ruined them.

I will agree with you that there should be some middle ground. But you might consider the unions' culpability in forcing businesses to look elsewhere for labor. It's a shame that THAT ever happened. However, the blame does not lie solely on the backs of ownership.

[PonderThis]

According to this chart, there are only 3 countries with a lower percentage of their workforce union than the U.S. Are you ready for this? Estonia, Korea, and Turkey. Is that anything to really be proud of?

I have to say I was shocked by this statistic as well. http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DatasetCode=UN_DEN

[Wonky]

I know it's become an awful cliche, but "been there, done that"

But I worked back in the day when things made sense and they paid us a decent day's pay for a good day's work. Things now are like some kind of Lewis Carroll life.

Many here on our forum are opposed to collective bargaining. Unions have often been shady, corrupt, and too powerful. But that is a different argument for a different day. As Union membership started to drop in the early 70's, wages began to stagnate. Of course there are many factors to consider here, but it simply can't be ignored that collective bargaining drove wages to a fair place for 50 years.

So we allowed other societies to provide cheap goods and our workers no longer could compete. And guess what those countries could offer to make all this possible? A lack of collective bargaining in the work force: Therefore, cheap labor. THERE ARE ONLY TWO REASONS WE OUTSOURCE OUR BUSINESS: CHEAP LABOR AND LACK OF ENVIRONMENTAL STANDARDS!

There is a point where return on capital changes from good profits to pure greed. There is NO disputing the fact that there is now more capital for investment that anytime in the history of the world. And, it's hoarded by only a very few.

So, what is the "average worker" (wage earner) worth? I don't know, and neither do you because greed has unbalanced the labor market so much that it no longer makes sense.

What do you do on an average work day? I hope you give your employer a good days work and I hope your employer respects your labor enough to ignore greed and pay you for the contribution you make to the profit.

So, it's time we see the working people in China, Vietnam, and other places paying near slave labor prices, as our brothers and sisters, laboring people who are being exploited. In a perfect world, Organized Labor would be sending thousands of people to help organize these workers. China does not have enough police to keep us out if we really are dedicated. Our history in the U.S. proves the point.

Don't like Unions? Fine, expect that at least one of your adult children might very well be moving in with you. Even the kid who graduated with that four year degree in whatever.

There is a balance. It's now tipped out of whack.

On this, Labor Day, I'm suggesting we work to tip it back our way. If you feel that the conservative thinking of "right to work" is the answer, go with it. Then, maybe think about moving to Sweden or anyplace that offers social options.

"Fairness" is okay to demand. Let's do it. Sooner than later.

One reason that collective bargaining has gone out of fashion is because the unions have made a bad name for themselves. Unsustainable pensions, excessive time off and sick days, promotions based on seniority rather than performance. Talk about greed! The unions are NOT immune to greed. Greed is what ruined them.

I will agree with you that there should be some middle ground. But you might consider the unions' culpability in forcing businesses to look elsewhere for labor. It's a shame that THAT ever happened. However, the blame does not lie solely on the backs of ownership.

You are wrong.
Yea, Unions have a soiled history. I pointed to that already.
But to suggest that unions drove industry to cheap labor is absurd and just wrong.
Profit margins drove production to cheap (slave like) labor. Once done, others had to follow to complete.
If your comments were true, then clean and upstanding Unions would bring production back home. Really? God help us all if you really believe that.
Greed rules.
It's those with great wealth who want more and fear losing what they have.
Only an equal force can balance the scales.

So tell me again that Apple will bring labor home if only unions are honest and upstanding. Wish in one hand, take a dump in the other, and see which fills up the fastest.

When labor is priced about the same the world over, production will race to the place most productive. That's us. U.S.

[GoCometsGo]

I know it's become an awful cliche, but "been there, done that"

But I worked back in the day when things made sense and they paid us a decent day's pay for a good day's work. Things now are like some kind of Lewis Carroll life.

Many here on our forum are opposed to collective bargaining. Unions have often been shady, corrupt, and too powerful. But that is a different argument for a different day. As Union membership started to drop in the early 70's, wages began to stagnate. Of course there are many factors to consider here, but it simply can't be ignored that collective bargaining drove wages to a fair place for 50 years.

So we allowed other societies to provide cheap goods and our workers no longer could compete. And guess what those countries could offer to make all this possible? A lack of collective bargaining in the work force: Therefore, cheap labor. THERE ARE ONLY TWO REASONS WE OUTSOURCE OUR BUSINESS: CHEAP LABOR AND LACK OF ENVIRONMENTAL STANDARDS!

There is a point where return on capital changes from good profits to pure greed. There is NO disputing the fact that there is now more capital for investment that anytime in the history of the world. And, it's hoarded by only a very few.

So, what is the "average worker" (wage earner) worth? I don't know, and neither do you because greed has unbalanced the labor market so much that it no longer makes sense.

What do you do on an average work day? I hope you give your employer a good days work and I hope your employer respects your labor enough to ignore greed and pay you for the contribution you make to the profit.

So, it's time we see the working people in China, Vietnam, and other places paying near slave labor prices, as our brothers and sisters, laboring people who are being exploited. In a perfect world, Organized Labor would be sending thousands of people to help organize these workers. China does not have enough police to keep us out if we really are dedicated. Our history in the U.S. proves the point.

Don't like Unions? Fine, expect that at least one of your adult children might very well be moving in with you. Even the kid who graduated with that four year degree in whatever.

There is a balance. It's now tipped out of whack.

On this, Labor Day, I'm suggesting we work to tip it back our way. If you feel that the conservative thinking of "right to work" is the answer, go with it. Then, maybe think about moving to Sweden or anyplace that offers social options.

"Fairness" is okay to demand. Let's do it. Sooner than later.

One reason that collective bargaining has gone out of fashion is because the unions have made a bad name for themselves. Unsustainable pensions, excessive time off and sick days, promotions based on seniority rather than performance. Talk about greed! The unions are NOT immune to greed. Greed is what ruined them.

I will agree with you that there should be some middle ground. But you might consider the unions' culpability in forcing businesses to look elsewhere for labor. It's a shame that THAT ever happened. However, the blame does not lie solely on the backs of ownership.

You are wrong.
Yea, Unions have a soiled history. I pointed to that already.
But to suggest that unions drove industry to cheap labor is absurd and just wrong.
Profit margins drove production to cheap (slave like) labor. Once done, others had to follow to complete.
If your comments were true, then clean and upstanding Unions would bring production back home. Really? God help us all if you really believe that.
Greed rules.
It's those with great wealth who want more and fear losing what they have.
Only an equal force can balance the scales.

So tell me again that Apple will bring labor home if only unions are honest and upstanding. Wish in one hand, take a dump in the other, and see which fills up the fastest.

When labor is priced about the same the world over, production will race to the place most productive. That's us. U.S.

Are you suggesting that unions did not affect profit margins? There has to be a profit or else no one would risk their capital on a business. If a union organizes an operation and that operation has to compete against a non-organized operation... then THAT organization MUST look elsewhere for labor. If the unions had kept the demands reasonable then they might not find themselves in the position that they are now in.

You would like to suggest that the union motive was to just get a fair shake for the workers. In the beginning, that was probably true. But as they gained power THEY GOT GREEDY. That was their undoing.

I'm not saying that no work would have ever been outsourced but I am saying that union behavior gave business the excuse to do so. Otherwise, the American public would not have been so willing to watch it happen.

[Clone]

And why don't German companies use offshore labor?
The unions don't allow it!
And who has one of the most productive, one of the very best economies?
Germany!
Where 85% of their workforce is UNION.

[Wonky]

And why don't German companies use offshore labor?
The unions don't allow it!
And who has one of the most productive, one of the very best economies?
Germany!
Where 85% of their workforce is UNION.

I stand with you.
In all fairness, I don't think those numbers hold up well. Germany (and other northern European societies) are struggling trying to fend off the scourge of slave like labor around the world. Union membership is still strong, but I wonder about 85% of ALL workers.
And above all, Northern European corporations have been far more willing to reward labor while still realizing competitive profit margins. And still, Germany assembles cars here in the SOUTHERN U.S. where Unions are historically not trusted.

So, it's a tangled mess in so many ways. I will continue to hold the point that "together we have power, as individuals we are at risk". That is so basic that to argue against it is to ignore fact.

[PonderThis]

And why don't German companies use offshore labor?
The unions don't allow it!
And who has one of the most productive, one of the very best economies?
Germany!
Where 85% of their workforce is UNION.

Uh, Clone, are you sure of this figure? According to the chart I posted earlier, Germany's workforce is only 18.5% union. Still higher than the 11.3% U.S. rate. http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DatasetCode=UN_DEN

I looked this up special because I knew someone on the forum was saying this high 85% figure. Maybe you mean heavy manufacturing employees or some such subset???

P.S. Finland was 70%, and Sweden was 68%.

[Wonky]

I know it's become an awful cliche, but "been there, done that"

But I worked back in the day when things made sense and they paid us a decent day's pay for a good day's work. Things now are like some kind of Lewis Carroll life.

Many here on our forum are opposed to collective bargaining. Unions have often been shady, corrupt, and too powerful. But that is a different argument for a different day. As Union membership started to drop in the early 70's, wages began to stagnate. Of course there are many factors to consider here, but it simply can't be ignored that collective bargaining drove wages to a fair place for 50 years.

So we allowed other societies to provide cheap goods and our workers no longer could compete. And guess what those countries could offer to make all this possible? A lack of collective bargaining in the work force: Therefore, cheap labor. THERE ARE ONLY TWO REASONS WE OUTSOURCE OUR BUSINESS: CHEAP LABOR AND LACK OF ENVIRONMENTAL STANDARDS!

There is a point where return on capital changes from good profits to pure greed. There is NO disputing the fact that there is now more capital for investment that anytime in the history of the world. And, it's hoarded by only a very few.

So, what is the "average worker" (wage earner) worth? I don't know, and neither do you because greed has unbalanced the labor market so much that it no longer makes sense.

What do you do on an average work day? I hope you give your employer a good days work and I hope your employer respects your labor enough to ignore greed and pay you for the contribution you make to the profit.

So, it's time we see the working people in China, Vietnam, and other places paying near slave labor prices, as our brothers and sisters, laboring people who are being exploited. In a perfect world, Organized Labor would be sending thousands of people to help organize these workers. China does not have enough police to keep us out if we really are dedicated. Our history in the U.S. proves the point.

Don't like Unions? Fine, expect that at least one of your adult children might very well be moving in with you. Even the kid who graduated with that four year degree in whatever.

There is a balance. It's now tipped out of whack.

On this, Labor Day, I'm suggesting we work to tip it back our way. If you feel that the conservative thinking of "right to work" is the answer, go with it. Then, maybe think about moving to Sweden or anyplace that offers social options.

"Fairness" is okay to demand. Let's do it. Sooner than later.

One reason that collective bargaining has gone out of fashion is because the unions have made a bad name for themselves. Unsustainable pensions, excessive time off and sick days, promotions based on seniority rather than performance. Talk about greed! The unions are NOT immune to greed. Greed is what ruined them.

I will agree with you that there should be some middle ground. But you might consider the unions' culpability in forcing businesses to look elsewhere for labor. It's a shame that THAT ever happened. However, the blame does not lie solely on the backs of ownership.

You are wrong.
Yea, Unions have a soiled history. I pointed to that already.
But to suggest that unions drove industry to cheap labor is absurd and just wrong.
Profit margins drove production to cheap (slave like) labor. Once done, others had to follow to complete.
If your comments were true, then clean and upstanding Unions would bring production back home. Really? God help us all if you really believe that.
Greed rules.
It's those with great wealth who want more and fear losing what they have.
Only an equal force can balance the scales.

So tell me again that Apple will bring labor home if only unions are honest and upstanding. Wish in one hand, take a dump in the other, and see which fills up the fastest.

When labor is priced about the same the world over, production will race to the place most productive. That's us. U.S.

Are you suggesting that unions did not affect profit margins? There has to be a profit or else no one would risk their capital on a business. If a union organizes an operation and that operation has to compete against a non-organized operation... then THAT organization MUST look elsewhere for labor. If the unions had kept the demands reasonable then they might not find themselves in the position that they are now in.

You would like to suggest that the union motive was to just get a fair shake for the workers. In the beginning, that was probably true. But as they gained power THEY GOT GREEDY. That was their undoing.

I'm not saying that no work would have ever been outsourced but I am saying that union behavior gave business the excuse to do so. Otherwise, the American public would not have been so willing to watch it happen.

So glad to see you here again!

In this case, I don't think we have room for debate. I made my case as clearly as I could earlier, and I'll stick to that unless I see real evidence that what I have witnessed in 50 years as a wage earner and Union member is clearly not true.

One final thought for you however. I'm a avid capitalist! I will never be an investor who risks all to start a business. I will continue to feel that those who start, and grow, business are due wealth, and sometimes great wealth. I never want to get in the way of that success, because that success provides me with a living wage. Remember, I, at some point, made peace with being a wage earning person during my productive life. I want a fair return on my labor. What is fair? We don't know until bargaining is complete. Without greed, this is a win-win relationship.

[Clone]

Uh, Clone, are you sure of this figure? According to the chart I posted earlier, Germany's workforce is only 18.5% union. Still higher than the 11.3% U.S. rate. http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DatasetCode=UN_DEN

I looked this up special because I knew someone on the forum was saying this high 85% figure. Maybe you mean heavy manufacturing employees or some such subset???

P.S. Finland was 70%, and Sweden was 68%.

I'm not sure where I got it. Sorry!
But let it be understood, Germany is a very robust economy...and their workers, their citizens have healthcare, paid sick leave, retirement pensions, etc.

[tvguy]

Other than the fact that you get the day off today is just another freaking day. GCG can talk anti Union and Wonk can be pro union. People will post stats on both sides and prove some point to no one but themselves.

At the end of this day like every other day nothing will have changed.

happy happy Joy Joy, now lets talk about Guns ,birth certificates, politics, the homeless, drugs, rogue cops. evolution, Climate change.... and last but not least lets all agree what a pile of shit this country has become and how ignorant and stupid all of it's inhabitants are. Except of course who ever is talking.

At the end of this day like every other day nothing will have changed.