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09-04-2012, 06:27 AM
(This post was last modified: 09-04-2012, 06:27 AM by cletus1. Edited 1 time in total.)
2 September 2012
Pakistan 'Koran plot' imam remanded in blasphemy case
A Pakistani imam has been remanded in custody, accused of planting pages of the Koran among burnt pages in the bag of a Christian girl held for blasphemy.
The girl was detained two weeks ago near the capital Islamabad after an angry mob demanded she be punished.
Prosecutors say Imam Khalid Chishti will himself face charges of blasphemy.
The girl, named as Rimsha, is said to be about 14 and to have learning difficulties.
Imam Khalid Chishti allegedly told a witness, after tampering with the girl's bag, that this was a "way of getting rid of Christians", a prosecutor said.
The case has sparked international condemnation.
Earlier this week, a court extended Rimsha's detention at a maximum-security prison by a further two weeks.
Her father has said he fears for his daughter's life and for the safety of his family. He has called on Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari to pardon her.
Rimsha's parents have been taken into protective custody following threats, and many other Christian families have fled the neighbourhood.
Pakistan's strict blasphemy laws are often used to settle personal vendettas, correspondents say.
Last year two leading politicians were assassinated after speaking out against the legislation.
'Proven conspiracy'
Imam Chishti appeared in the Islamabad court with a white blindfold and shackled hands.
There was a large police presence as he was ushered into the building.
"The imam was arrested after his deputy Maulvi Zubair and two others told a magistrate he added pages from the Koran to the burnt pages brought to him by a witness," an investigator Munir Hussain Jaffri said.
He said Mr Zubair and some others had told the imam not to interfere, urging him to "give the evidence to the police as he got it".
According to Mr Jaffri, Imam Chishti had told them: "You know this is the only way to expel the Christians from this area."
The investigator said the cleric had been arrested at his home on Saturday under Pakistan's blasphemy law.
"By putting these pages in the ashes he also committed desecration of the Holy Koran and he is being charged with blasphemy," he said.
The girl's lawyer told AFP news agency that Rimsha "should be acquitted immediately", as it had been "fully proven that it was a conspiracy".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-19454739
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These religious freaks are all dragging us down with their irrational hatreds and beliefs. I don't know why anybody goes along with a bit of it. All I can say is, they're stupid. I'm sure they all enjoy fitting in, though, and they can all comfort each other by telling themselves the same lies too. They might even convince themselves this illiterate stuff makes them seem smarter because they believe it, too. 
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(09-04-2012, 07:03 AM)PonderThis Wrote: These religious freaks are all dragging us down with their irrational hatreds and beliefs. I don't know why anybody goes along with a bit of it. All I can say is, they're stupid. I'm sure they all enjoy fitting in, though, and they can all comfort each other by telling themselves the same lies too. They might even convince themselves this illiterate stuff makes them seem smarter because they believe it, too.
Religious people are ignorant of the ways of science and the laws of physics but the religious freaks, Mormons, Scientologists, Snake handlers, bible thumping evangelical fundamentalists and Muslims Jehadists are, and there are no two ways about it just pain evil, stupid and a hindrance to mankind's progress as a species.
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The bikers who tried to kill me, are all working for Jesus now. They handed the reins to The Angels, and went on mission?
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09-05-2012, 07:20 AM
(This post was last modified: 09-05-2012, 07:23 AM by GoCometsGo. Edited 2 times in total.)
You geniuses, (Ponder and Leonard), are so above it all. So you've escaped the bindings of organized religion. Such deep thinkers you are! Have a little sympathy for those that live in those indoctrinated worlds.
Statements like these:
These religious freaks are all dragging us down with their irrational hatreds and beliefs. I don't know why anybody goes along with a bit of it. All I can say is, they're stupid. I'm sure they all enjoy fitting in, though, and they can all comfort each other by telling themselves the same lies too. They might even convince themselves this illiterate stuff makes them seem smarter because they believe it, too.
Religious people are ignorant of the ways of science and the laws of physics but the religious freaks, Mormons, Scientologists, Snake handlers, bible thumping evangelical fundamentalists and Muslims Jehadists are, and there are no two ways about it just pain evil, stupid and a hindrance to mankind's progress as a species.
do nothing to help matters.
I detest the way that the zealots of any organized religion behave... especially when it harms innocents. But, IMHO, you cannot blame the followers. The worlds into which they were raised practically dictate these outcomes. It's not simply a matter of brain power. It is so much deeper than that.
And you know... there are those less strident than yourselves that have no desire to "progress as a species" in the same way that you two would seem to prefer. Count me amongst them. I'm all for curbing extremism.
Their brand of it AND yours.
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If our species doesn't progress, we're going to die out instead because our numbers and technology has reached that point.
And, I'm not blaming followers, I'm saying get smart here, people.
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(09-05-2012, 07:20 AM)GoCometsGo Wrote: You geniuses, (Ponder and Leonard), are so above it all. So you've escaped the bindings of organized religion. Such deep thinkers you are! Have a little sympathy for those that live in those indoctrinated worlds.
Statements like these:
These religious freaks are all dragging us down with their irrational hatreds and beliefs. I don't know why anybody goes along with a bit of it. All I can say is, they're stupid. I'm sure they all enjoy fitting in, though, and they can all comfort each other by telling themselves the same lies too. They might even convince themselves this illiterate stuff makes them seem smarter because they believe it, too.
Religious people are ignorant of the ways of science and the laws of physics but the religious freaks, Mormons, Scientologists, Snake handlers, bible thumping evangelical fundamentalists and Muslims Jehadists are, and there are no two ways about it just pain evil, stupid and a hindrance to mankind's progress as a species.
do nothing to help matters.
I detest the way that the zealots of any organized religion behave... especially when it harms innocents. But, IMHO, you cannot blame the followers. The worlds into which they were raised practically dictate these outcomes. It's not simply a matter of brain power. It is so much deeper than that.
And you know... there are those less strident than yourselves that have no desire to "progress as a species" in the same way that you two would seem to prefer. Count me amongst them. I'm all for curbing extremism.
Their brand of it AND yours.
There is nothing so extreme and in need of curbing than to place ones life in the hands of a belief system that is a totally unprovable fairytale and so unintelligently antiquated as to be pathetic and the bane of mankind.
Many people profess one belief, but practice another. This is quite typical of politicians who profess a personal religious belief and then practice atheism and the worship of “The Great God Money” in their political or personal dealings.
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09-06-2012, 06:41 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-06-2012, 08:46 PM by GoCometsGo. Edited 2 times in total.)
Even though this thread didn't go anywhere, I want to put something else out there.
Put yourselves in the place of the young girl. How terrifying it must be to live in that part of the world and also be a Christian. The fear of eternal damnation on one hand and the fear of horrific death at the hands of Muslim extremists on the other. Do you think this is all because the girl is stupid? What about the Muslim guy? Such a miserable existence he has as well. But I bet he is not stupid or crazy or anything like that. They are BOTH victims of organized religion at it's worst.
Just because I call the guy a victim does not mean that I want him to get a pass for his awful action. The world is better off without him.
My real quarrel here is with anyone that would think that someone can only be caught up in religious fervor because they are somehow intellectually inferior. That is a pompous and short-sighted way to approach this subject. It comes as no surprise to me that you two, Ponder and Leonard, are the ones that jumped onto this story. After all, you are the self-proclaimed intellectual superiors to the masses. Maybe not by directly stating so but certainly by the words that you type here.
Let me take a different tack here. My wife is extremely devout when it comes to her Christianity. She does not preach and she does not proselytize... but that does not diminish her faith. We have three kids that all consider themselves to be Christians. I am agnostic and they all know it. A part of me wants to steer my kids away from their mother's faith but I don't and I won't. Why? Because it would destroy my wife. She would live the rest of her days worried about our kids' souls. If my kids were living their lives in fear of eternal hell or whatever... THEN I might have to intervene. But that is not the case. They are good kids and I am proud of them... as well as of my wife.
The thing is this... none of them are stupid or ignorant or anything close. I am insulted on their behalf when I see the way that religious people are mocked here at the RVF.
Incidentally... some of you may wonder how my wife deals with the idea that I am not "saved"... well I guess there is some sort of "Get out of Hell Free" card for the husbands of believers.  Lucky me!
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I am insulted when I hear how religious believers expect everybody else to give them respect for believing in nonsense. Of course, it's not just intellectual deficiency that might trigger this sort of belief, probably a greater cause is mass delusion and some say there's a "God gene" at work that makes people want to believe in something, anything. Perhaps these things had usefulnesses in caveman and prehistoric days, but in todays world, with all the threats to existence we now have, the last thing we need is more things that divide people rather than unite them. Your family's religious views, unfortunately, fall in that category.
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Parting shot for you "deep thinkers":
What is so great about believing in only that which has been proven or discovered? If you really want to be open-minded... open your minds up to the "possible" and not just the "proven." There is a LOT that we don't know. Unless you can admit that... you are as close-minded as those that you mock.
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It's possible the purple flowers that flow out of my butt when I fart are the key source of enlightenment for all of mankind, too. But it doesn't seem very likely, does it?
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(09-06-2012, 06:58 PM)PonderThis Wrote: I am insulted when I hear how religious believers expect everybody else to give them respect for believing in nonsense. Of course, it's not just intellectual deficiency that might trigger this sort of belief, probably a greater cause is mass delusion and some say there's a "God gene" at work that makes people want to believe in something, anything. Perhaps these things had usefulnesses in caveman and prehistoric days, but in todays world, with all the threats to existence we now have, the last thing we need is more things that divide people rather than unite them. Your family's religious views, unfortunately, fall in that category.
My family is far more open and inclusive to the views of others than you will ever be.
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09-06-2012, 09:34 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-06-2012, 09:34 PM by PonderThis. Edited 1 time in total.)
You're protecting them from the truth to allay their fears of eternal loss of their souls. If you think that's helping them somehow I think your entire family is operating on fear. Some way to lead a family.
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09-07-2012, 04:53 AM
(This post was last modified: 09-07-2012, 04:56 AM by GoCometsGo. Edited 1 time in total.)
(09-06-2012, 09:34 PM)PonderThis Wrote: You're protecting them from the truth to allay their fears of eternal loss of their souls. If you think that's helping them somehow I think your entire family is operating on fear. Some way to lead a family.
They know what I believe.. and what I don't. They accept me for that as I accept them. They do not each hold the exact views as each other. You seem to be the one that wants everyone to believe as you do. Not going to happen... and for that we can all be thankful.
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I don't want everyone to believe as I do, I want everyone to disbelieve as intelligent, thinking people do. 
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09-07-2012, 05:36 AM
(This post was last modified: 09-07-2012, 05:37 AM by GoCometsGo. Edited 1 time in total.)
(09-07-2012, 05:04 AM)PonderThis Wrote: I don't want everyone to believe as I do, I want everyone to disbelieve as intelligent, thinking people do.
You prove BOTH of my points. One is that you want to manipulate the beliefs of others. And the other is that you feel intellectually superior to those that believe differently than you.
You can't seem to wrap that great mind of yours around the notion that the relatively tiny blip that we humans occupy in time and space leaves a hell of a lot of unanswered questions. To sit around and worry about trying to bring people around to YOUR way of viewing things is about as unintelligent as you can get.
But carry on with your quest to teach the unwashed masses. I doubt that any of them thinks as highly of you as you think of yourself.
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I'm sorry you think so little of your family you're willing to encourage believing in outright lies in order to protect them from believing they'll spend they're eternities in Hell if they don't, too.
You also don't believe in people wasting their time learning second languages, as you see no reason to encourage international discourse. These kinds of attitudes all go along with believing it's OK to go to war against fellow humans too. Your family and their convictions are an exact example of why the world's humans are fighting with each other. I hope you're proud for doing your part to perpetuate nonsense.
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09-07-2012, 06:49 AM
(This post was last modified: 09-07-2012, 07:01 AM by cletus1. Edited 2 times in total.)
I have a friend with a wife and four children that live a life almost just like GoComets. My friend’s wife and the three children that still live at home are all Christian. They go to church on Sundays from what I gather, and this year two of the kids went to a Christian summer camp. I can’t say that my friend is agnostic or atheist because he has not shared what he believes about religion with me other than to say that it is mostly a lot of “mumbo jumbo.” The one time that we did discuss religion, he said that his wife felt it was her duty to give her children a good Christian upbringing or some such and that he left all that to her.
I told him I did not believe any of that mumbo jumbo either and that I doubted that it really helped the kids. He simply responded that they will make up their own minds when they are on their own. He used both of us as examples that what kids are taught to believe when they are young does not mean it will stay with them. Like GoComets, he wants his wife to be content and have a peaceful home life so he goes along with it. I think for most Christians being a believer is just part of our culture and they believe because they think faith in God is a necessary thing. I certainly understand my friends position as I understand GoComet's.
My political views about religion in American are much more hard line. Religious people often like to play the victim. The Christian right fundamentalists are constantly talking about the war on their faith, but in reality it is they that want others to acquiesce to their belief system. They are not being persecuted by atheists; they are persecuting the atheists because the atheists are challenging the superstitious, irrational beliefs that the fundamentalists would happily press upon us all. In fact, the religious folks are the ones trying to legislate their narrow minded views into law, not the atheists. The believers in God have a long bloody history of persecuting unbelievers and forcing obedience. They once burned heretics like Giordano Bruno at the stake, now they teach his heresy in Christian colleges.
I do not respect superstitious religious beliefs because they deserve no respect in my opinion. Also, I see no problem in ridiculing those irrational beliefs for the nonsense they are. That is a far cry from disrespecting people that choose to believe or discriminating against them because of their religious beliefs. This forum is not the real world, I think people get confused by that. You would have to be an arrogant asshole to engage in the harsh style of debate we have here with a believer in person.
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09-07-2012, 07:07 AM
(This post was last modified: 09-07-2012, 07:09 AM by GoCometsGo. Edited 1 time in total.)
(09-07-2012, 06:14 AM)PonderThis Wrote: I'm sorry you think so little of your family you're willing to encourage believing in outright lies in order to protect them from believing they'll spend they're eternities in Hell if they don't, too.
You also don't believe in people wasting their time learning second languages, as you see no reason to encourage international discourse. These kinds of attitudes all go along with believing it's OK to go to war against fellow humans too. Your family and their convictions are an exact example of why the world's humans are fighting with each other. I hope you're proud for doing your part to perpetuate nonsense.
What is it with you? Do you just make this crap up as you go? I guess we've already established, ( in the "Mitt Romney "happy to have a party with black people drowning", thread), that you have no problem with a little "creative license" when it comes to what you post here.
Now that you are resorting to those tactics again... I will end my discourse with you on this subject... probably on all subjects.
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I can take the hit.
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