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10-09-2012, 10:04 AM
(This post was last modified: 10-09-2012, 10:04 AM by Scrapper. Edited 1 time in total.)
(10-08-2012, 05:24 PM)csrowan Wrote: (10-08-2012, 05:20 PM)tvguy Wrote: (10-08-2012, 05:12 PM)csrowan Wrote: So the genocide was not deplorable, because it happened when times were different?
OK Rowan what are we gonna do about something that happened 500 freaking years ago?
People were vicious back them so I don't get why we should snivel about it. Or I mean why SOME people want to snivel about it.
Well, for starters, we could stop celebrating it.
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10-09-2012, 11:35 AM
(This post was last modified: 10-09-2012, 11:37 AM by tornado. Edited 1 time in total.)
(10-08-2012, 05:57 PM)csrowan Wrote: (10-08-2012, 05:48 PM)Larry Wrote: (10-08-2012, 05:45 PM)csrowan Wrote: (and I don't want to cancel Christmas, I just don't want it to be a federal holiday either.)
Tell us your opinion on acceptable Federal Holidays. 4th of July ok? Thanksgiving? Veterans Day? Memorial Day? Would you be in favor of a new one in the future for 9/11?
It's pretty simple. If it's a religious holiday (even if it has been commercialized and is also accepted by non-religious people), it shouldn't be a federal holiday, because that is the government tacitly endorsing a religion.
If it's to celebrate a person, that person should be worth celebrating. Otherwise, celebrate the specific event or concept and don't name it after the person.
If it's to remember something tragic, it shouldn't be about what we legislated or who we fought after the tragedy. It should be only about remembering the tragedy.
If it is to honor a group of people, it should be to honor them as individuals, and not to honor the organization to which they belonged.
Now can we get back to the topic at hand?
Christ is a person worth celebrating. Using your logic we can celebrate his birthday as long as we don't call it Christmas. How does Naked Crucified White Guy who Healed the Sick, and Walked on Water Day, sound?
When MLK day rolls around I'll just call it Black John Doe Day.
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(10-09-2012, 10:04 AM)Scrapper Wrote: (10-08-2012, 05:24 PM)csrowan Wrote: (10-08-2012, 05:20 PM)tvguy Wrote: (10-08-2012, 05:12 PM)csrowan Wrote: So the genocide was not deplorable, because it happened when times were different?
OK Rowan what are we gonna do about something that happened 500 freaking years ago?
People were vicious back them so I don't get why we should snivel about it. Or I mean why SOME people want to snivel about it.
Well, for starters, we could stop celebrating it.
No chit.
It's a frigging national holiday!
Oh well, just keep it, right?
No one really observes the occasion.
Bullshit alert!
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10-09-2012, 12:03 PM
(This post was last modified: 10-09-2012, 12:04 PM by PonderThis. Edited 1 time in total.)
(10-09-2012, 11:35 AM)tornado Wrote: Christ is a person worth celebrating. Using your logic we can celebrate his birthday as long as we don't call it Christmas. How does Naked Crucified White Guy who Healed the Sick, and Walked on Water Day, sound?
What gives you the idea Christ was a white guy?
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(10-09-2012, 12:03 PM)PonderThis Wrote: (10-09-2012, 11:35 AM)tornado Wrote: Christ is a person worth celebrating. Using your logic we can celebrate his birthday as long as we don't call it Christmas. How does Naked Crucified White Guy who Healed the Sick, and Walked on Water Day, sound?
What gives you the idea Christ was a white guy?
Perhaps Christ was a woman!
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Now that would be a tough concept for Tornado to take. 
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Quote:CHRISTOPHER COLUMBUS
By: Dr. Leroy Vaughn, MD, MBA
The original Haitians were called the Arawaks or Tainos. Christopher Columbus wrote in his log that the Arawaks were well built with good bodies and handsome features. He also reported that the Arawaks were remarkable for their hospitality and their belief in sharing. He said, "they offered to share with anyone and that when you ask for something they never say no." The Arawaks lived in village communes with a well-developed agriculture of corn, yams, and cassava. They had the ability to spin and weave, as well as being able to swim long distances. The Arawaks did not bear arms nor did they have prisons or prisoners. Columbus wrote that when the Santa Maria became shipwrecked, the Arawaks worked for hours to save the crew and cargo and that they were so honest that not one thing was missing. Arawak women were treated so well in early Haitian society that it startled the Spaniards. Columbus said that the Arawak men were of great intelligence because they could navigate all of their islands and give an amazingly precise account of everything.
The chief source, and on many matters the only source of information about what happened on the islands after Columbus arrived, was noted by a Catholic priest named Bartolome De Las Casas who lived during the time of Columbus. He transcribed Columbus's journal and wrote a multi-volume "History of the Indies." Las Casas says that Columbus returned to America on his second voyage with seventeen ships and with more than 1,200 heavily armed men with horses and attack dogs. Their aim was clearly to obtain as much gold and as many slaves as possible according to De Las Casas. Columbus went from island to island in the Caribbean, taking Arawaks as captives. He ordered everyone over the age of 14 to produce specific quantities of gold every three months, and if the Arawak could not produce this quota, Columbus then had his hands cut off; and left him to bleed to death.
If the Arawaks ever tried to escape, they were hunted down by the attack dogs and either hanged or burned alive. Within just two years, half of the three million Arawaks of Haiti died from murder, mutilation or suicide. Bishop De Las Casas reported that the Spaniards became so lazy that they refused to walk any distance; and either rode the backs of the Arawaks or were carried on hammocks by Arawaks who ran them in relays.
In other cases, the Spaniards had the Arawaks carry large leaves for their shade and had others to fan them with goose wings. Women were used as sex slaves and their children were murdered and then thrown into the sea. The Spaniards were so cruel, they thought nothing of cutting off slices of human flesh from the Arawaks just to test the sharpness of their blades. Bishop De Las Casas wrote, "My eyes have seen these acts so foreign to human nature that now I tremble as I write.
Christopher Columbus started the Trans-Atlantic slave trade by taking 500 of the healthiest men back to Spain to sell into slavery, and the proceeds from the sale helped to pay for his third voyage. The massive slave trade moving in the other direction, across the Atlantic from Africa to the Americas, was also begun in Haiti and was started by the son of Christopher Columbus in 1505 A.D. On his third voyage to Haiti, Queen Isabelle's new Governor, Francisco De Bobadilla, had Christopher Columbus and his two brothers arrested and sent back to Spain in chains as prisoners for their crimes against the Arawaks.
Would Columbus Day still be celebrated if the real history of Christopher Columbus were told from the viewpoint of his victims?
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Back east, Columbus Day has become a pseudo Italian-American Day. There are a lot of Italians in the NY/Boston area and it has become a celebration of their heritage more than Columbus and what he did. All it ever meant to me was a day off work or school.
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(10-12-2013, 03:16 PM)TennisMom Wrote: Back east, Columbus Day has become a pseudo Italian-American Day. There are a lot of Italians in the NY/Boston area and it has become a celebration of their heritage more than Columbus and what he did. All it ever meant to me was a day off work or school.
Me too and I grew up right next to Columbus, Ohio 
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A supremacist man, Stephen Miller
For alt-right beliefs is a pillar
He likes whites - but no other
A lot like another:
Columbus, a ruthless mass killer
____Mick Limerick
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(10-08-2018, 03:21 PM)Valuesize Wrote: A supremacist man, Stephen Miller
For alt-right beliefs is a pillar
He likes whites - but no other
A lot like another:
Columbus, a ruthless mass killer
____Mick Limerick
Who in the hell is Mick Limerick
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This anti Columbus day Bullshit is ridiculous.. It's as if Chris was the only bad guy back then. The only one who killed Indians or participated is slavery.
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(10-08-2018, 05:02 PM)tvguy Wrote: This anti Columbus day Bullshit is ridiculous.. It's as if Chris was the only bad guy back then. The only one who killed Indians or participated is slavery.
I kind of concur. I think it's a bit of a tempest in a teapot...I guess I just wonder what's to celebrate? It should just be "I'm Italian!" like St. Patricks and Cinco de Mayo.
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(10-08-2018, 05:24 PM)Juniper Wrote: (10-08-2018, 05:02 PM)tvguy Wrote: This anti Columbus day Bullshit is ridiculous.. It's as if Chris was the only bad guy back then. The only one who killed Indians or participated is slavery.
I kind of concur. I think it's a bit of a tempest in a teapot...I guess I just wonder what's to celebrate? It should just be "I'm Italian!" like St. Patricks and Cinco de Mayo.
Does it have anything to do with the country Columbus was from? I think it's supposed to just be about when America was discovered... and yeah Leif Ericson,, whatever.
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(10-08-2018, 05:53 PM)tvguy Wrote: (10-08-2018, 05:24 PM)Juniper Wrote: (10-08-2018, 05:02 PM)tvguy Wrote: This anti Columbus day Bullshit is ridiculous.. It's as if Chris was the only bad guy back then. The only one who killed Indians or participated is slavery.
I kind of concur. I think it's a bit of a tempest in a teapot...I guess I just wonder what's to celebrate? It should just be "I'm Italian!" like St. Patricks and Cinco de Mayo.
Does it have anything to do with the country Columbus was from? I think it's supposed to just be about when America was discovered... and yeah Leif Ericson,, whatever. Well, if you look at Tennismom's post above, it seems that that is what has become. Because what else is there really to celebrate? We know he didn't REALLY discover the Americas. Not literally. Are we celebrating Columbus as a person? Because he really is kind of despicable.
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(10-08-2018, 06:07 PM)Juniper Wrote: (10-08-2018, 05:53 PM)tvguy Wrote: (10-08-2018, 05:24 PM)Juniper Wrote: (10-08-2018, 05:02 PM)tvguy Wrote: This anti Columbus day Bullshit is ridiculous.. It's as if Chris was the only bad guy back then. The only one who killed Indians or participated is slavery.
I kind of concur. I think it's a bit of a tempest in a teapot...I guess I just wonder what's to celebrate? It should just be "I'm Italian!" like St. Patricks and Cinco de Mayo.
Does it have anything to do with the country Columbus was from? I think it's supposed to just be about when America was discovered... and yeah Leif Ericson,, whatever. Well, if you look at Tennismom's post above, it seems that that is what has become. Because what else is there really to celebrate? We know he didn't REALLY discover the Americas. Not literally. Are we celebrating Columbus as a person? Because he really is kind of despicable. Well to Italians I'm sure it does give them some pride but to most of us it's nothing to do with Italy.
Are we celebrating Columbus as a person? Because he really is kind of despicable.
Was he despicable then or was he just like any Spanish , English, or French explorers? Or Vikings?
Look what the Spanish did to South Americans? I think based on today's morals they were all despicable.
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