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(10-08-2018, 08:00 PM)tvguy Wrote: (10-08-2018, 06:07 PM)Juniper Wrote: (10-08-2018, 05:53 PM)tvguy Wrote: (10-08-2018, 05:24 PM)Juniper Wrote: (10-08-2018, 05:02 PM)tvguy Wrote: This anti Columbus day Bullshit is ridiculous.. It's as if Chris was the only bad guy back then. The only one who killed Indians or participated is slavery.
I kind of concur. I think it's a bit of a tempest in a teapot...I guess I just wonder what's to celebrate? It should just be "I'm Italian!" like St. Patricks and Cinco de Mayo.
Does it have anything to do with the country Columbus was from? I think it's supposed to just be about when America was discovered... and yeah Leif Ericson,, whatever. Well, if you look at Tennismom's post above, it seems that that is what has become. Because what else is there really to celebrate? We know he didn't REALLY discover the Americas. Not literally. Are we celebrating Columbus as a person? Because he really is kind of despicable. Well to Italians I'm sure it does give them some pride but to most of us it's nothing to do with Italy.
Are we celebrating Columbus as a person? Because he really is kind of despicable.
Was he despicable then or was he just like any Spanish , English, or French explorers? Or Vikings?
Look what the Spanish did to South Americans? I think based on today's morals they were all despicable.
yes he was. But he was the product of his day. I'm not saying he was MORE despicable.
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(10-08-2018, 08:00 PM)tvguy Wrote: (10-08-2018, 06:07 PM)Juniper Wrote: (10-08-2018, 05:53 PM)tvguy Wrote: (10-08-2018, 05:24 PM)Juniper Wrote: (10-08-2018, 05:02 PM)tvguy Wrote: This anti Columbus day Bullshit is ridiculous.. It's as if Chris was the only bad guy back then. The only one who killed Indians or participated is slavery.
I kind of concur. I think it's a bit of a tempest in a teapot...I guess I just wonder what's to celebrate? It should just be "I'm Italian!" like St. Patricks and Cinco de Mayo.
Does it have anything to do with the country Columbus was from? I think it's supposed to just be about when America was discovered... and yeah Leif Ericson,, whatever. Well, if you look at Tennismom's post above, it seems that that is what has become. Because what else is there really to celebrate? We know he didn't REALLY discover the Americas. Not literally. Are we celebrating Columbus as a person? Because he really is kind of despicable. Well to Italians I'm sure it does give them some pride but to most of us it's nothing to do with Italy.
Are we celebrating Columbus as a person? Because he really is kind of despicable.
Was he despicable then or was he just like any Spanish , English, or French explorers? Or Vikings?
Look what the Spanish did to South Americans? I think based on today's morals they were all despicable.
So it was OK because a lot of people thought it was at the time. Got it.
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(10-08-2018, 09:28 PM)Valuesize Wrote: (10-08-2018, 08:00 PM)tvguy Wrote: (10-08-2018, 06:07 PM)Juniper Wrote: (10-08-2018, 05:53 PM)tvguy Wrote: (10-08-2018, 05:24 PM)Juniper Wrote: I kind of concur. I think it's a bit of a tempest in a teapot...I guess I just wonder what's to celebrate? It should just be "I'm Italian!" like St. Patricks and Cinco de Mayo.
Does it have anything to do with the country Columbus was from? I think it's supposed to just be about when America was discovered... and yeah Leif Ericson,, whatever. Well, if you look at Tennismom's post above, it seems that that is what has become. Because what else is there really to celebrate? We know he didn't REALLY discover the Americas. Not literally. Are we celebrating Columbus as a person? Because he really is kind of despicable. Well to Italians I'm sure it does give them some pride but to most of us it's nothing to do with Italy.
Are we celebrating Columbus as a person? Because he really is kind of despicable.
Was he despicable then or was he just like any Spanish , English, or French explorers? Or Vikings?
Look what the Spanish did to South Americans? I think based on today's morals they were all despicable.
So it was OK because a lot of people thought it was at the time. Got it.
I'm not sure that is what TV is trying to say here. But what I don't get is what are we celebrating exactly? That's why I don't care about it if the Italian Americans want to co opt it to just make it Italian American day! PASTA!
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(10-08-2018, 09:58 PM)Juniper Wrote: I'm not sure that is what TV is trying to say here. But what I don't get is what are we celebrating exactly? That's why I don't care about it if the Italian Americans want to co opt it to just make it Italian American day! PASTA!
Not Italian.
Indigenous Peoples' Day is being observed today! It has been observed the second Monday in October since 1992.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_Peoples%27_Day
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Re-writing history is stupid.
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(10-09-2018, 05:49 AM)WSomeones Dad Wrote: Re-writing history is stupid. Columbus would have made a terrific Republican Supreme Court Justice.
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10-09-2018, 07:11 AM
(This post was last modified: 10-09-2018, 07:24 AM by GCG. Edited 1 time in total.)
I don't really understand why Columbus Day is still a "thing." But I'd bet it's because it's one of the days that government, (and other), workers get paid to to not work.
When they added Martin Luther King Jr. Day, they should have gotten rid of Columbus Day.... or they could at least call it something else.
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Italian power. Much bigger holiday back East.
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(10-09-2018, 05:49 AM)Someones Dad Wrote: Re-writing history is stupid.
I'd rather they skip wasting time teaching lies and use it in STEP courses.
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(10-09-2018, 05:49 AM)Someones Dad Wrote: Re-writing history is stupid.
Yeah, he who lies first wins.
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(10-09-2018, 10:16 AM)Cuzz Wrote: (10-09-2018, 05:49 AM)Someones Dad Wrote: Re-writing history is stupid.
Yeah, he who lies first wins.
Not exactly. But he who wins does get to write the history.
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"I love the poorly educated."
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(10-08-2018, 09:28 PM)Valuesize Wrote: (10-08-2018, 08:00 PM)tvguy Wrote: (10-08-2018, 06:07 PM)Juniper Wrote: (10-08-2018, 05:53 PM)tvguy Wrote: (10-08-2018, 05:24 PM)Juniper Wrote: I kind of concur. I think it's a bit of a tempest in a teapot...I guess I just wonder what's to celebrate? It should just be "I'm Italian!" like St. Patricks and Cinco de Mayo.
Does it have anything to do with the country Columbus was from? I think it's supposed to just be about when America was discovered... and yeah Leif Ericson,, whatever. Well, if you look at Tennismom's post above, it seems that that is what has become. Because what else is there really to celebrate? We know he didn't REALLY discover the Americas. Not literally. Are we celebrating Columbus as a person? Because he really is kind of despicable. Well to Italians I'm sure it does give them some pride but to most of us it's nothing to do with Italy.
Are we celebrating Columbus as a person? Because he really is kind of despicable.
Was he despicable then or was he just like any Spanish , English, or French explorers? Or Vikings?
Look what the Spanish did to South Americans? I think based on today's morals they were all despicable.
So it was OK because a lot of people thought it was at the time. Got it.
So it was OK because a lot of people thought it was at the time. Got it.
YES it was OK THEN!! Exactly. if you object to people who had common and widely held practices that we don't agree with today... Where do you draw the line as to who in the past we ignore or make villeins of ?
So you are one of those who wants to erase history. Got it. Columbus days is not just about Christopher himself. It's about the discovery of THE AMERICAS. It's also not just the USA that celebrates it, so do other countries in the Americas.
Who gives a shit if courageous sailors, explores and virtually every civilized country in power at the time practiced slavery or killed people when they conquered other lands?
That's the way the cookie crumbled back then.
As to indigenous people day instead of Columbus. There were hundreds of tribes. They were not all the same. some if not most fought , killed captured and kept slaves. And they tortured them.
So was that OK because a lot of people thought it was at the time. Got it. 
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Until you are able to step outside your lifelong experience as a white male in a society dominated by white males and try to view life from those dominated you and I will disagree, whether its slavery or issues related to race. 
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(10-09-2018, 02:14 PM)Valuesize Wrote: Until you are able to step outside your lifelong experience as a white male in a society dominated by white males and try to view life from those dominated you and I will disagree, whether its slavery or issues related to race.
oh FFS
you are one of those.....
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(10-09-2018, 02:14 PM)Valuesize Wrote: Until you are able to step outside your lifelong experience as a white male in a society dominated by white males and try to view life from those dominated you and I will disagree, whether its slavery or issues related to race.
You act as if I defend slavery or deny there are racists. Neither is true.
And your accusatory comment that didn't address a single fucking comment I made. Makes me feel like I totally wasted my time TRYING to explain my opinions.
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(10-09-2018, 02:50 PM)tvguy Wrote: (10-09-2018, 02:14 PM)Valuesize Wrote: Until you are able to step outside your lifelong experience as a white male in a society dominated by white males and try to view life from those dominated you and I will disagree, whether its slavery or issues related to race.
You act as if I defend slavery or deny there are racists. Neither is true.
And your accusatory comment that didn't address a single fucking comment I made. Makes me feel like I totally wasted my time TRYING to explain my opinions.
Well, sometimes I have trouble understanding just what you're trying to say.
So it was OK but you don't agree with it??
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(10-09-2018, 12:15 PM)Someones Dad Wrote: (10-09-2018, 10:16 AM)Cuzz Wrote: (10-09-2018, 05:49 AM)Someones Dad Wrote: Re-writing history is stupid.
Yeah, he who lies first wins.
Not exactly. But he who wins does get to write the history.
Now you're just quibbling. 
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(10-09-2018, 03:14 PM)Cuzz Wrote: (10-09-2018, 02:50 PM)tvguy Wrote: (10-09-2018, 02:14 PM)Valuesize Wrote: Until you are able to step outside your lifelong experience as a white male in a society dominated by white males and try to view life from those dominated you and I will disagree, whether its slavery or issues related to race.
You act as if I defend slavery or deny there are racists. Neither is true.
And your accusatory comment that didn't address a single fucking comment I made. Makes me feel like I totally wasted my time TRYING to explain my opinions.
Well, sometimes I have trouble understanding just what you're trying to say.
So it was OK but you don't agree with it?? Well I don't know how I can explain it any better, I'm an electrician not a writer. But still here are the very words I have said about slavery, conquering and killing.
I think based on today's morals they were all despicable.
YES it was OK THEN!! Exactly.
It's not about what I think. It's about was was OK . common, acceptable THEN!!!!!
It makes absolutely zero sense to judge people from the past based on what we all believe today.
And if people want to do that then at least be honest and stop acting like the natives were all freaking angels that sat around smoking peace pipes. VIOLENCE was a way of life for many.
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(10-09-2018, 04:31 PM)tvguy Wrote: I think based on today's morals they were all despicable.
YES it was OK THEN!! Exactly.
It's not about what I think. It's about was was OK . common, acceptable THEN!!!!!
It makes absolutely zero sense to judge people from the past based on what we all believe today.
And if people want to do that then at least be honest and stop acting like the natives were all freaking angels that sat around smoking peace pipes. VIOLENCE was a way of life for many.
It was not OK nor acceptable by everyone then or now.
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