Regarding the perceived "dumbing down"
(05-14-2013, 05:18 PM)Leonard Wrote:
(05-14-2013, 04:48 PM)Wonky Wrote: Well, gapper, you started a shit storm.
I liked your post, and if nothing else give you A+ for brevity in expressing a complete thought.

Leonard, I think I agree with you. I might quarrel with the word "intellectual" as you use it, but I'd probably lose the argument. Otherwise, I feel you have laid out a pretty good case for what it takes to be involved in meaningful discussion that results in exchanging views, ideas, and sometimes, ideals.

TVg, you stick to the most basic uncomplicated and obvious conclusions, and there is (I feel, at least) a lot to be said for that. But...there is always a but, ain't there...I think you are trying to find an argument, a counterpoint, a "devils advocate" case that stretches the point.

Whatever: I like that it's taking place, and if we can keep from slinging feces around we might even get some place.

We shall see what we shall see. I want to weigh in here later if things stay civil.

You have reached a conclusion it seems, one I hope is the result of intense study and serious contemplation, but you will have to take up the use and meaning of the word ''intellectual'' with the various international English dictionary's, for I am but a humble instrument of their definitions.

First Leonard, may I say what a pleasure it is to read you own prose. You are good at this stuff! At one point you made me understand your feeling that it is important to post news and opinion; I get that now. But seeing your own words is much more interesting, for me at least.

"Intellectual" does in fact have a specific definition. But, I would guess, without any real authority, that "intellectuals" come in various stripes and colors and while they meet the standards of the formal definition, in practice they can be very different it how they investigate their interests.

And so, I have a more broad view of what intellectuals bring to the table. I agree with you that they seek facts, truth reached by controlled and rigid study, and an aversion to all things "spooky". But more than that, many are investigating the possibilities of ideas not yell full formed and so not subject to scientific investigation or peer review.

And least I think that's what I mean. I recently removed my brain from my nostril to play with awhile and may have damaged it yet again. The things are SO fragile.

But, we sure I'll try to follow along. This keeps my interest, and even should my interest fizzle, I know TVg will be here to keep you honest and make you prove your points.
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(05-14-2013, 08:32 PM)Wonky Wrote: "Intellectual" does in fact have a specific definition. But, I would guess, without any real authority, that "intellectuals" come in various stripes and colors and while they meet the standards of the formal definition, in practice they can be very different it how they investigate their interests.

As my dear old Granny used to say, ''It doesn't matter how you got there, just get there''.
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(05-14-2013, 09:03 PM)Leonard Wrote:
(05-14-2013, 08:32 PM)Wonky Wrote: "Intellectual" does in fact have a specific definition. But, I would guess, without any real authority, that "intellectuals" come in various stripes and colors and while they meet the standards of the formal definition, in practice they can be very different it how they investigate their interests.

As my dear old Granny used to say, ''It doesn't matter how you got there, just get there''.

And "Dear Old Granny" was mostly right. I have a fear of "taking that road less traveled' only to discover it leads to a place I don't want to be.

I hope you will continue posting thoughts in this vein. Really interesting stuff. I find that frequent conversations about the incompetence (and more) of our institutions wears me down. (Maybe that's just me). This stuff is a breath of fresh air and I think it's important to kick it around. We mature, develop, improve and find some contentment in these kinds of searches, I believe.

I make no claim to being "intellectual". Ideas, even those somewhat abstract, interest me and while I understand my limits I enjoy the study.
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(05-14-2013, 09:18 PM)Wonky Wrote:
(05-14-2013, 09:03 PM)Leonard Wrote:
(05-14-2013, 08:32 PM)Wonky Wrote: "Intellectual" does in fact have a specific definition. But, I would guess, without any real authority, that "intellectuals" come in various stripes and colors and while they meet the standards of the formal definition, in practice they can be very different it how they investigate their interests.

As my dear old Granny used to say, ''It doesn't matter how you got there, just get there''.

And "Dear Old Granny" was mostly right. I have a fear of "taking that road less traveled' only to discover it leads to a place I don't want to be.
It takes a brave soul to take ''The Road Not Taken''.

The Road Not Taken -- by Robert Frost

TWO roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth;

Then took the other, as just as fair,
And having perhaps the better claim,
Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
Though as for that the passing there
Had worn them really about the same,

And both that morning equally lay
In leaves no step had trodden black.
Oh, I kept the first for another day!
Yet knowing how way leads on to way,
I doubted if I should ever come back.

I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference

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(05-14-2013, 09:03 PM)Leonard Wrote:
(05-14-2013, 08:32 PM)Wonky Wrote: "Intellectual" does in fact have a specific definition. But, I would guess, without any real authority, that "intellectuals" come in various stripes and colors and while they meet the standards of the formal definition, in practice they can be very different it how they investigate their interests.

As my dear old Granny used to say, ''It doesn't matter how you got there, just get there''.

Big Grin

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(05-18-2013, 04:57 AM)Valuesize Wrote:
(05-14-2013, 09:03 PM)Leonard Wrote:
(05-14-2013, 08:32 PM)Wonky Wrote: "Intellectual" does in fact have a specific definition. But, I would guess, without any real authority, that "intellectuals" come in various stripes and colors and while they meet the standards of the formal definition, in practice they can be very different it how they investigate their interests.

As my dear old Granny used to say, ''It doesn't matter how you got there, just get there''.

Big Grin

I watched all 7 minutes and 14 seconds of that video. I consider that a debt that you now owe me Valuesize. I do however get the point. Either that, or I'm enjoying my own interpretation of why you posted it in this thread. Big Grin
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(05-18-2013, 05:33 AM)cletus1 Wrote: I watched all 7 minutes and 14 seconds of that video. I consider that a debt that you now owe me Valuesize. I do however get the point. Either that, or I'm enjoying my own interpretation of why you posted it in this thread. Big Grin

Well I was awake at 4:30 this morning Rolling Eyes and watched this show on some back channel on TV in a effort to get back to sleep. It so reminded me of our fellow forum member I just had to find a clip and post it. Big Grin

I'll try to make it up to you. Would some eye-candy in the men's only section work? Eyebrows
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