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07-26-2013, 06:09 PM
(This post was last modified: 07-26-2013, 06:10 PM by csrowan. Edited 1 time in total.)
(07-26-2013, 06:04 PM)Tiamat Wrote: So, is this thread about using female gender to insult men or about women's hormonal whatevers or lack of them? Just so I can be relevant.
I like to make my thread names open-ended. I'm sure there's plenty of posts that could go into the "being a woman" thread. I started with what I think is one of the more important quotes showing how society subconsciously (or even consciously in some cases) views women:
Quote:“What’s the worst possible thing you can call a woman? Don’t hold back, now.
You’re probably thinking of words like slut, whore, bitch, cunt (I told you not to hold back!), skank.
Okay, now, what are the worst things you can call a guy? Fag, girl, bitch, pussy. I’ve even heard the term “mangina.”
Notice anything? The worst thing you can call a girl is a girl. The worst thing you can call a guy is a girl. Being a woman is the ultimate insult. Now tell me that’s not royally fucked up.”
? Jessica Valenti, Full Frontal Feminism: A Young Woman's Guide to Why Feminism Matters
I also pointed out that PMS mood swings, according to recent studies, are a myth.
The rest of the thread is TV trying to argue that scientific studies are wrong because I googled them and they don't match what people who haven't studied it think.
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(07-26-2013, 06:04 PM)Tiamat Wrote: So, is this thread about using female gender to insult men or about women's hormonal whatevers or lack of them? Just so I can be relevant.
You have to ask Rowen. It's a trend of his when ever I disagree with him and he can't get me to say uncle . He runs to start a new thread.
All I can tell you is what I said had NOTHING to do with insulting women. And everything to do with a FACT. That many women are indeed affected by PMS and can be cranky is no freaking myth.
And the other fact is you can't live a life by trying to Google one.
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(07-26-2013, 06:10 PM)tvguy Wrote: (07-26-2013, 06:04 PM)Tiamat Wrote: So, is this thread about using female gender to insult men or about women's hormonal whatevers or lack of them? Just so I can be relevant.
You have to ask Rowen. It's a trend of his when ever I disagree with him and he can't get me to say uncle . He runs to start a new thread.
All I can tell you is what I said had NOTHING to do with insulting women. And everything to do with a FACT. That many women are indeed affected by PMS and can be cranky is no freaking myth.
And the other fact is you can't live a life by trying to Google one.
Actually, TV, your jabs to Rowen in this thread and in the state sandwich thread are perfect examples of the OP. We may have diverged but I'm on the OP in this.
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(07-26-2013, 06:09 PM)csrowan Wrote: (07-26-2013, 06:04 PM)Tiamat Wrote: So, is this thread about using female gender to insult men or about women's hormonal whatevers or lack of them? Just so I can be relevant.
I like to make my thread names open-ended. I'm sure there's plenty of posts that could go into the "being a woman" thread. I started with what I think is one of the more important quotes showing how society subconsciously (or even consciously in some cases) views women:
Quote:“What’s the worst possible thing you can call a woman? Don’t hold back, now.
You’re probably thinking of words like slut, whore, bitch, cunt (I told you not to hold back!), skank.
Okay, now, what are the worst things you can call a guy? Fag, girl, bitch, pussy. I’ve even heard the term “mangina.”
Notice anything? The worst thing you can call a girl is a girl. The worst thing you can call a guy is a girl. Being a woman is the ultimate insult. Now tell me that’s not royally fucked up.”
? Jessica Valenti, Full Frontal Feminism: A Young Woman's Guide to Why Feminism Matters
I also pointed out that PMS mood swings, according to recent studies, are a myth.
The rest of the thread is TV trying to argue that scientific studies are wrong because I googled them and they don't match what people who haven't studied it think.
YOU GOOGLED THE WORD "MYTH" ALONG WITH PMS SO WHAT THE FUCK DID YOU EXPECT TO FIND!!!!
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(07-26-2013, 06:10 PM)tvguy Wrote: (07-26-2013, 06:04 PM)Tiamat Wrote: So, is this thread about using female gender to insult men or about women's hormonal whatevers or lack of them? Just so I can be relevant.
You have to ask Rowen. It's a trend of his when ever I disagree with him and he can't get me to say uncle . He runs to start a new thread.
All I can tell you is what I said had NOTHING to do with insulting women. And everything to do with a FACT. That many women are indeed affected by PMS and can be cranky is no freaking myth.
And the other fact is you can't live a life by trying to Google one.
You mean, its a trend to start a new thread so the old one doesn't get sucked off topic? So be it.
And I still don't understand why you take such issue with my using a search engine as a research tool, reviewing multiple findings for reliability, then using that to make an informed decision. As opposed to... what? Having an opinion without trying to see if you're right? Having an opinion and plugging your ears any time someone tells you something that might prove you wrong?
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(07-26-2013, 06:12 PM)Tiamat Wrote: (07-26-2013, 06:10 PM)tvguy Wrote: (07-26-2013, 06:04 PM)Tiamat Wrote: So, is this thread about using female gender to insult men or about women's hormonal whatevers or lack of them? Just so I can be relevant.
You have to ask Rowen. It's a trend of his when ever I disagree with him and he can't get me to say uncle . He runs to start a new thread.
All I can tell you is what I said had NOTHING to do with insulting women. And everything to do with a FACT. That many women are indeed affected by PMS and can be cranky is no freaking myth.
And the other fact is you can't live a life by trying to Google one.
Actually, TV, your jabs to Rowen in this thread and in the state sandwich thread are perfect examples of the OP. We may have diverged but I'm on the OP in this.
OK fine you two ladies have it your way . They were "jabs" at Rowan . No one else.
If a woman can't admit she is physically weaker than a man without feeling inferior then I feel sorry for her.
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(07-26-2013, 06:13 PM)tvguy Wrote: (07-26-2013, 06:09 PM)csrowan Wrote: (07-26-2013, 06:04 PM)Tiamat Wrote: So, is this thread about using female gender to insult men or about women's hormonal whatevers or lack of them? Just so I can be relevant.
I like to make my thread names open-ended. I'm sure there's plenty of posts that could go into the "being a woman" thread. I started with what I think is one of the more important quotes showing how society subconsciously (or even consciously in some cases) views women:
Quote:“What’s the worst possible thing you can call a woman? Don’t hold back, now.
You’re probably thinking of words like slut, whore, bitch, cunt (I told you not to hold back!), skank.
Okay, now, what are the worst things you can call a guy? Fag, girl, bitch, pussy. I’ve even heard the term “mangina.”
Notice anything? The worst thing you can call a girl is a girl. The worst thing you can call a guy is a girl. Being a woman is the ultimate insult. Now tell me that’s not royally fucked up.”
? Jessica Valenti, Full Frontal Feminism: A Young Woman's Guide to Why Feminism Matters
I also pointed out that PMS mood swings, according to recent studies, are a myth.
The rest of the thread is TV trying to argue that scientific studies are wrong because I googled them and they don't match what people who haven't studied it think.
YOU GOOGLED THE WORD "MYTH" ALONG WITH PMS SO WHAT THE FUCK DID YOU EXPECT TO FIND!!!!
Well, that's a point. The thing is about the articles, is that there are tons of googled articles that oppose this viewpoint.
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(07-26-2013, 06:13 PM)tvguy Wrote: (07-26-2013, 06:09 PM)csrowan Wrote: (07-26-2013, 06:04 PM)Tiamat Wrote: So, is this thread about using female gender to insult men or about women's hormonal whatevers or lack of them? Just so I can be relevant.
I like to make my thread names open-ended. I'm sure there's plenty of posts that could go into the "being a woman" thread. I started with what I think is one of the more important quotes showing how society subconsciously (or even consciously in some cases) views women:
Quote:“What’s the worst possible thing you can call a woman? Don’t hold back, now.
You’re probably thinking of words like slut, whore, bitch, cunt (I told you not to hold back!), skank.
Okay, now, what are the worst things you can call a guy? Fag, girl, bitch, pussy. I’ve even heard the term “mangina.”
Notice anything? The worst thing you can call a girl is a girl. The worst thing you can call a guy is a girl. Being a woman is the ultimate insult. Now tell me that’s not royally fucked up.”
? Jessica Valenti, Full Frontal Feminism: A Young Woman's Guide to Why Feminism Matters
I also pointed out that PMS mood swings, according to recent studies, are a myth.
The rest of the thread is TV trying to argue that scientific studies are wrong because I googled them and they don't match what people who haven't studied it think.
YOU GOOGLED THE WORD "MYTH" ALONG WITH PMS SO WHAT THE FUCK DID YOU EXPECT TO FIND!!!!
Ah, yes. I did that AFTER I posted a study that you ignored. So I chose search terms that would specifically bring up results discussing either whether PMS is a myth, or why it is, or why it isn't. And then people can click on them, read them, and determine whether the articles themselves are trustworthy, science based, or insane.
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(07-26-2013, 06:16 PM)tvguy Wrote: (07-26-2013, 06:12 PM)Tiamat Wrote: (07-26-2013, 06:10 PM)tvguy Wrote: (07-26-2013, 06:04 PM)Tiamat Wrote: So, is this thread about using female gender to insult men or about women's hormonal whatevers or lack of them? Just so I can be relevant.
You have to ask Rowen. It's a trend of his when ever I disagree with him and he can't get me to say uncle . He runs to start a new thread.
All I can tell you is what I said had NOTHING to do with insulting women. And everything to do with a FACT. That many women are indeed affected by PMS and can be cranky is no freaking myth.
And the other fact is you can't live a life by trying to Google one.
Actually, TV, your jabs to Rowen in this thread and in the state sandwich thread are perfect examples of the OP. We may have diverged but I'm on the OP in this.
OK fine you two ladies have it your way. They were "jabs" at Rowan . No one else.
If a woman can't admit she is physically weaker than a man without feeling inferior then I feel sorry for her.
TV, are you intentionally dense? This has nothing to do with being weaker.
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(07-26-2013, 06:15 PM)csrowan Wrote: (07-26-2013, 06:10 PM)tvguy Wrote: (07-26-2013, 06:04 PM)Tiamat Wrote: So, is this thread about using female gender to insult men or about women's hormonal whatevers or lack of them? Just so I can be relevant.
You have to ask Rowen. It's a trend of his when ever I disagree with him and he can't get me to say uncle . He runs to start a new thread.
All I can tell you is what I said had NOTHING to do with insulting women. And everything to do with a FACT. That many women are indeed affected by PMS and can be cranky is no freaking myth.
And the other fact is you can't live a life by trying to Google one.
You mean, its a trend to start a new thread so the old one doesn't get sucked off topic? So be it.
And I still don't understand why you take such issue with my using a search engine as a research tool, reviewing multiple findings for reliability, then using that to make an informed decision. As opposed to... what? Having an opinion without trying to see if you're right? Having an opinion and plugging your ears any time someone tells you something that might prove you wrong?
By by I'm wiping my ass with a Hoola Hoop AGAIN There aint no end to it I say tomato you say tomato.
I say "it's your time of month" because you acted cranky and you say it's a myth that women aren't really affected by PMS And that it's a myth because you Googled the word MYTH and the word PMS TOGETHER.
The end.. done Fini
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(07-26-2013, 06:17 PM)Tiamat Wrote: (07-26-2013, 06:16 PM)tvguy Wrote: (07-26-2013, 06:12 PM)Tiamat Wrote: (07-26-2013, 06:10 PM)tvguy Wrote: (07-26-2013, 06:04 PM)Tiamat Wrote: So, is this thread about using female gender to insult men or about women's hormonal whatevers or lack of them? Just so I can be relevant.
You have to ask Rowen. It's a trend of his when ever I disagree with him and he can't get me to say uncle . He runs to start a new thread.
All I can tell you is what I said had NOTHING to do with insulting women. And everything to do with a FACT. That many women are indeed affected by PMS and can be cranky is no freaking myth.
And the other fact is you can't live a life by trying to Google one.
Actually, TV, your jabs to Rowen in this thread and in the state sandwich thread are perfect examples of the OP. We may have diverged but I'm on the OP in this.
OK fine you two ladies have it your way. They were "jabs" at Rowan . No one else.
If a woman can't admit she is physically weaker than a man without feeling inferior then I feel sorry for her.
TV, are you intentionally dense? This has nothing to do with being weaker.
"This"???
No I'm not dense , see my last post because what you think is "THIS" is explained.
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07-26-2013, 06:24 PM
(This post was last modified: 07-26-2013, 06:25 PM by csrowan. Edited 1 time in total.)
(07-26-2013, 06:20 PM)tvguy Wrote: By by I'm wiping my ass with a Hoola Hoop AGAIN There aint no end to it I say tomato you say tomato.
I say "it's your time of month" because you acted cranky and you say it's a myth that women aren't really affected by PMS And that it's a myth because you Googled the word MYTH and the word PMS TOGETHER.
The end.. done Fini
You seem to be mistaking Google for my source of information, as opposed to the modern day equivalent of a card file where I can find pertinent results.
My second post in this thread was of a scientific study showing no link between PMS and mood swings.
I also posted 3 other articles you've ignored.
You wanted to see a woman who agreed with me. I showed you Scrapper and two of the three articles, which were about studies done by women.
But, no. You complain because of a link I posted that you refused to even click on BEFORE you knew what it was.
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07-26-2013, 06:31 PM
(This post was last modified: 07-26-2013, 06:31 PM by Scrapper.)
I am in an air conditioned sports bar drinking adult beverages with my husband.... The gentleman! I'm not hot. I'm not a pussy. IMHO, Men that share TVGuy's opinion of women are the real pussies!
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07-26-2013, 06:40 PM
(This post was last modified: 07-26-2013, 06:42 PM by csrowan. Edited 1 time in total.)
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I used to have PMS. It stopped when my equipment was removed.
I've know many women who suffer or have suffered from true pre mentrual syndrome.
I've also know several women who have nothing that even resembles a mood swing at specific times.
I also used to work with several doctors, and never did I hear any one of them agree with your article.
I have known a few women who 'played up' such symptoms. For whatever reason. Faking, if you will. You will find those with any condition.
And I always will go by my true life experiences over any number of articles someone else may show me. Articles can be found that say anything you want.
If you had experienced a woman with true PMS, you would not doubt it, I'm quite sure.
And I don't know what the worst thing to call a woman would be.
I don't call people names.
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Well if PMS mood swings are a myth...then those women must actually have PMDD.
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07-26-2013, 07:21 PM
(This post was last modified: 07-26-2013, 07:22 PM by csrowan. Edited 2 times in total.)
I did used to believe it. And I had anecdotal evidence to support it. However, based on these studies, including the one with results that suggest the emotional symptoms of PMS are worse in people who more strongly believe in premenstrual distress, the worse they're likely to rate their PMS symptoms during their last period, I have come to change my belief.
There's a thing called "cognitive bias", which, along with the placebo (or rather nocebo) effect, can easily explain why people who are exposed practically from birth to the notion that women get moody and irritable around their periods... end up getting moody and irritable around their periods. The more they believe it, the worse it is (or is perceived to be).
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07-26-2013, 07:22 PM
(This post was last modified: 07-26-2013, 07:23 PM by broadzilla. Edited 2 times in total.)
PMS is real and denying its existence harms women
http://theconversation.com/pms-is-real-a...omen-11714
Quote:A recent opinion piece in the Fairfax papers – based on a Conversation article – discussed “the theory that (PMS) is all in women’s minds as opposed to their endocrinology …” Why is this debate from the 1970s about whether or not PMS is “just an excuse” that women use for their anger resurfacing now?
Premenstrual syndrome (PMS) is a broad term used to describe the physical and psychological symptoms experienced by some women prior to menstruation. The term was first coined by British doctor Katharina Dalton in 1957, and her clinic successfully treated many women over 40 years.
The issue has resurfaced because of a recent study conducted by researchers at the University of Toronto. The authors did a meta-analysis of 41 studies, concluding
Taken together, these studies failed to provide clear evidence in support of the existence of a specific premenstrual negative mood syndrome in the general population. This puzzlingly widespread belief needs challenging, as it perpetuates negative concepts linking female reproduction with negative emotionality.
So, why has this study taken us all the way back to a debate that should have finished ages ago?
There are two main reasons. First, many opinions about the existence of PMS are fuelled by personal philosophy and politics, rather than by reason and good research.
Over the centuries, women have had to cope with dismissive views about their anger, depression or capabilities, and being labelled as “irrational” during “that time of the month”. In the 1970s, feminists fought hard against the concept of hormone influences on women’s behaviour in their struggle to achieve equality for women. It was important back then to dismiss women’s biology as the only determining factor of her life.
Today, we don’t have to take the view that women’s biology, including their hormone profiles, are unimportant. We can reclaim biology and integrate it with the psychological plus social contexts to see that PMS does exist and does cause real suffering for many women.
Second, a vast body of neuroscience work is being ignored. The evidence (from many studies) about the integration of hormones with mental processes is now well established.
Recent brain research has demonstrated the powerful influence that hormones such as estrogen, progesterone and testosterone have on brain chemistry, which underpins emotion, mood and behaviour. It is uninformed to write off these potent brain hormones as only “reproductive”, since they have many roles in brain development and ongoing mental function.
The Canadian study assumes that all women universally respond to cyclical hormone changes in the same way, and at the same time of each cycle. There are vast differences in individuals’ mental health changes in response to shifts in the complex array of hormones. Some women are very mentally sensitive to hormone changes, while others are not.
Some women suffer from physical and mental disorders that become worse cyclically – migraines and epilepsy are well-accepted examples. Every disorder has a biological, psychological and social context. It is just that with many physical illnesses, there’s the capacity to actually see the tissue damage, or measure markers of the illness, while mental disorders are difficult to measure or visualise in the same way.
This leaves debates about the existence of certain conditions, such as PMS, open to ideologically-motivated opinions rather than evidence-based realities.
In addition to a lack of neuroscientific understanding, the current PMS debate is defined by a lack of consideration for social context. The argument by Jane Ussher in this publication in her article about the study (and quoted in the Fairfax opinion piece) that PMS is a “Western” woman’s disorder fails to take into account that mental health disorders are not given a priority in some cultures where there are many other battles to contend with.
The recent spate of stories about the difficulties in reporting rape in India is testimony to the level of gender inequality in certain parts of the world. So it’s not surprising that non-life-threatening conditions, such as PMS, are given little consideration in some non-Western countries.
Rejecting the existence of PMS leads to increased hardship for women. Added to her burden of distressing symptoms is the frustration and pain of invalidation, and pejorative comments of disbelief about her cyclical mood or other symptoms. Women with severe PMS want and deserve validation and understanding of their condition.
One argument put up by those wishing to deny the existence of PMS is that medicalising PMS leads to harm and stigma. This erroneous belief is based on the supposition that medicalisation means that (male) doctors will force harmful, ineffective treatments upon passive, uninformed, powerless women.
Patient empowerment through knowledge is a major part of health care, and there are many sources of information about PMS available to women. There are also many different treatments, including combinations of hormone treatments (both natural and synthetic types), healthy lifestyle approaches and psychological interventions. Good PMS management involves comprehensive collaboration between the woman and her doctor, and an integrated treatment approach.
Happily, we are approaching an era of individualised medicine, where each person’s biological, psychological and social context can be taken into consideration. With rapidly accumulating scientific knowledge about the role of hormones in the brain and on behaviour, we are in a better place to listen to and discuss their concerns and issues with women, while taking the role of cyclical hormone changes into account.
Let’s leave the tired old debates of the 1970s in the past and aim for better integration of biology with psychology and the social context. Because that’s where real help and hope lies for many women.
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(07-26-2013, 07:19 PM)broadzilla Wrote: Well if PMS mood swings are a myth...then those women must actually have PMDD.
For those with particularly severe mood swings that aren't psychosomatic, and are actually biologically related to their cycles, yes.
I don't have any arguments against the existence of PMDD and its accompanying symptoms.
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