Being a Man
#41
(05-31-2014, 11:04 PM)cletus1 Wrote:
(05-31-2014, 12:44 PM)csrowan Wrote: From: http://natetlopez.com/2014/05/28/i-dont-...isogynist/

I Don’t Consider Myself a Misogynist

I used to identify myself as a maleist. That is, I believed that the rights of men were being whittled away by American women. I believed that we were raising a generation of men to be pussies. We were stamping out natural male instincts in an attempt to keep them subdued. We were telling American men that they should be ashamed of their sex and instincts.

I’m sure Fight Club had something to do with this.

I don’t identify as a maleist anymore. I find myself thinking these thoughts from time to time. I realize that they are misguided. But, they’re still lingering.

I don’t consider myself a misogynist… but…

My wife and I have an okay marriage. We’ve been together for 8 years. We don’t hate each other. We’re not madly in love anymore, but we’ve got something that is positive and works. Our kids are amazing and smart. She’s an incredible mother. I’m a suitable father. That’s life.

She gets upset with me because of my inability to be intimate.

Not the way you’re thinking. I’m always ready for sex. It’s in the way that she likes.

I shy away from physical contact and heartfelt discussions… sober anyways.

Sometimes, when I’m home, I’ll do a chore or job or make breakfast in bed or dinner for the kids or vacuum a room or clean her car and present it to her like a caveman with game. She’ll thank me and move on with her life. Later that night I’ll make a feeble attempt at sex. She’ll rebuff me and I’ll get angry.

“I DID THAT THING! FOR YOU!” I’ll say.

Then we’ll argue.

I don’t consider myself a misogynist… but…

My mother gave my brothers and I up when I was 10. We went to live with my father and his new wife. She was only 26 years old with three brand new, and heavily damaged boys to raise. I took out a lot of anger on her. I thought that she had ruined my family.

I take that back.

I wanted to believe that she had ruined my family. But she didn’t. She saved it.

I still treated her like she would give up on us at any moment. Right up to the moment I left the house for good.

I don’t consider myself a misogynist… but…

I wish I could explain everything that goes through the mind of a young man. There is SO MUCH SELF DOUBT AND ANGST!

I spent my college years in the Navy. Specifically, I spent my adult formative years on a submarine with 120 men. We used to sit out under the ocean and talk about everything. Especially women. Most of us were terrified of them. Women were such a mystery. So soft and nice and sweet and… We knew that we were good guys. We knew that if a girl got to know us, she’d like us. We knew she’d sleep with us.

Sleep with us.

Sleep with us.

Cause we were good guys.

I don’t consider myself a misogynist… but…

I work in an office. My wife doesn’t. She raises the kids and does the housework and pays the bills and runs the family.

I get the biggest piece of pizza when we order out.

If we go to a party, I assume that she’ll drive home because I’m going to be too drunk.

When I get home I’ll drop my clothes on the ground or pile them on my dresser or on the kitchen table or on the bed or anywhere but where they belong. I’ll ask “What’s for dinner?”. I’ll commandeer the TV. I’ll ignore the kids. I’ll surf the internet.

I don’t consider myself a misogynist… but…

I truly believe that my wife is better at life than I am. I respect her ability to teach our family about life.

She’s helped change me from a card carrying Republican to a bleeding heart liberal and convinced me that I did it on my own.

She’s pushed me into a side career that I can’t imagine doing without.

Hell, she dresses me for chrissakes.

And I have a hard time listening to her stories or watching her shows or reading her books or…

I don’t consider myself a misogynist… but…

I think I am.

Shit.


Rape Culture exists. As much as I have been avoiding saying it for years. It exists.

I’m not guilty of beating my wife. I’m not guilty of rape. I’m not guilty of shooting a sorority.

I am guilty of thinking in a manner that promotes one sex over the other… even during my “enlightened” years.

I will never understand the mind of a woman. I don’t know what it’s like to walk down the streets of Cambridge alone at night as a woman. I will never know what it’s like to have a drunk 230 pound man angry at me cause he’s not getting laid.

I’m sorry.

Vanessa, I’m sorry.

I don’t consider myself a misogynist…. but….

I’m trying to change.
csrowan, pardon me, but you seem to be more concerned for women than women are concerned about women. I dont know that it is overkill, but it kind of seems that way.

Ditto
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#42
(06-01-2014, 09:45 AM)csrowan Wrote: You're not hanging around the women I am.

You mean Ashland lesbot or not feminazis who hate bras or even having breasts, makeup, long hair and mostly hate men?Razz
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#43
(06-01-2014, 10:20 AM)tvguy Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 09:45 AM)csrowan Wrote: You're not hanging around the women I am.

You mean Ashland lesbot or not feminazis who hate bras or even having breasts, makeup, long hair and mostly hate men?Razz

You mean all of the above?
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#44
Scrapper isn't gay, but she cares about gay rights. I don't see Clete getting on her case about that.

I AM a feminist. So what if I'm not a woman?

A misogynist asshole went on a killing spree and left a 141 page manifesto, so the feminist Facebook pages I belong to are posting a lot of things specific to misogyny and the cultural attitudes that help to spread it.
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#45
(06-01-2014, 10:20 AM)tvguy Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 09:45 AM)csrowan Wrote: You're not hanging around the women I am.

You mean Ashland lesbot or not feminazis who hate bras or even having breasts, makeup, long hair and mostly hate men?Razz

I mean women who are actively feminist. They come in all types. Some have short hair and don't wear skirts. Some have lots of tattoos and wear retro clothing and lots of makeup. But really, they're just a cross section of the female population. In other words, women. Like my mother. Like co-workers. Like friends. Like people halfway across the country that I only know from Facebook. Most of them look "normal", whatever that means.
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#46
(06-01-2014, 03:38 PM)csrowan Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 10:20 AM)tvguy Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 09:45 AM)csrowan Wrote: You're not hanging around the women I am.

You mean Ashland lesbot or not feminazis who hate bras or even having breasts, makeup, long hair and mostly hate men?Razz

I mean women who are actively feminist. They come in all types. Some have short hair and don't wear skirts. Some have lots of tattoos and wear retro clothing and lots of makeup. But really, they're just a cross section of the female population. In other words, women. Like my mother. Like co-workers. Like friends. Like people halfway across the country that I only know from Facebook. Most of them look "normal", whatever that means.

I think TV struggles a bit with grey zones. I think he is a mostly black or white sort of guy, and hazy areas in between are less in his ken. Or he just chooses to discuss things as unambiguous.
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#47
(06-01-2014, 06:19 PM)Tiamat Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 03:38 PM)csrowan Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 10:20 AM)tvguy Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 09:45 AM)csrowan Wrote: You're not hanging around the women I am.

You mean Ashland lesbot or not feminazis who hate bras or even having breasts, makeup, long hair and mostly hate men?Razz

I mean women who are actively feminist. They come in all types. Some have short hair and don't wear skirts. Some have lots of tattoos and wear retro clothing and lots of makeup. But really, they're just a cross section of the female population. In other words, women. Like my mother. Like co-workers. Like friends. Like people halfway across the country that I only know from Facebook. Most of them look "normal", whatever that means.

I think TV struggles a bit with grey zones. I think he is a mostly black or white sort of guy, and hazy areas in between are less in his ken. Or he just chooses to discuss things as unambiguous.

I'm a common sense logic type A no BS kind of guy. I think too many people today are searching for perfection in an imperfect world.
I think all of the things people like Rowan worry about will be worked out all by themselves in time.Time will end racism, and homophobia and even how some men treat women.
I think too many people today try and figure out life via new books or Google instead of just asking gramma.Razz
I think people think with their emotions. Small School kids get shot, suddenly we HAVE to have an instant answer. People don't care or ignore the kids who die every day in crime ridden areas. The media controls where we focus.

Women have it better today than ever. Especially in THIS great country. Some idiot kid mental case claimed he did his killing because he couldn't have sex?
Suddenly we have to fix that problem, we need an instant answer.
So Rowan blames men?

Great zones are for the wishy washy fence sittersRazz
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#48
(06-01-2014, 07:01 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 06:19 PM)Tiamat Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 03:38 PM)csrowan Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 10:20 AM)tvguy Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 09:45 AM)csrowan Wrote: You're not hanging around the women I am.

You mean Ashland lesbot or not feminazis who hate bras or even having breasts, makeup, long hair and mostly hate men?Razz

I mean women who are actively feminist. They come in all types. Some have short hair and don't wear skirts. Some have lots of tattoos and wear retro clothing and lots of makeup. But really, they're just a cross section of the female population. In other words, women. Like my mother. Like co-workers. Like friends. Like people halfway across the country that I only know from Facebook. Most of them look "normal", whatever that means.

I think TV struggles a bit with grey zones. I think he is a mostly black or white sort of guy, and hazy areas in between are less in his ken. Or he just chooses to discuss things as unambiguous.

I'm a common sense logic type A no BS kind of guy. I think too many people today are searching for perfection in an imperfect world.
I think all of the things people like Rowan worry about will be worked out all by themselves in time.Time will end racism, and homophobia and even how some men treat women.
I think too many people today try and figure out life via new books or Google instead of just asking gramma.Razz
I think people think with their emotions. Small School kids get shot, suddenly we HAVE to have an instant answer. People don't care or ignore the kids who die every day in crime ridden areas. The media controls where we focus.

Women have it better today than ever. Especially in THIS great country. Some idiot kid mental case claimed he did his killing because he couldn't have sex?
Suddenly we have to fix that problem, we need an instant answer.
So Rowan blames men?

Great zones are for the wishy washy fence sittersRazz

Well, TV, I wasn't referring to the tragedy in Santa Barbara. What spurred my remark was your comment on women.
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#49
(06-01-2014, 07:01 PM)tvguy Wrote: Women have it better today than ever.

http://whenwomenrefuse.tumblr.com



Better than ever doesn't mean shit.
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#50
And it's not an instant answer that we need. The only reason women have it better today than ever is because feminists have been working so hard to make things better, bit by bit. You know, like the right to vote. Making it acceptable for women to wear trousers. To do more than be secretaries when working in law offices, and actually be lawyers. Having to fight for each and every rung on the ladder of equality.

And there's still much more to do. There's still so much more that the male dominated society does to create inequality, not just for women but also for men. It's not just about equality for women, it's about deconstructing the patriarchal attitudes that create the problems in the first place, which means equality for men and women alike.
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#51
TV, to a degree, I agree with you. People do want instant fixes. And everything gets so " politically" driven, such as PC actions and behaviors that it's hard to have an opposing opinion. I also think you are right that women have it better than ever. I would question, however, if "better" is enough? Western women fare far better than their Eastern Counterparts. And if we all just asked Gramma, we'd probably get some answers that wouldn't wash in today's modern society. But Rowan is correct also. This is an ongoing struggle. And a battle in many places. And just because it's gotten better doesn't mean that that's good enough. Do you agree it's good enough? Women's rights in this country have grown exponentially. Women have property rights, no contest divorce, employment rights, Religious freedom, birth control, the right to vote, better health care, the right to not be physically, financially, or emotionally abused. It truly is amazing. But do we just stop? So, do you agree there is room for improvement? I do. And if it isn't addressed, by whoever does it, will it be addressed? If feminazi's are the one to carry the flag into battle for the good of all womankind, then I say, more power to 'em.
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#52
(06-01-2014, 11:24 PM)csrowan Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 07:01 PM)tvguy Wrote: Women have it better today than ever.

http://whenwomenrefuse.tumblr.com



Better than ever doesn't mean shit.

Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding!
But, he'll NEVER get it.
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#53
Quote: 'Tiamat' pid='340774' dateline='1401716836']
TV, to a degree, I agree with you. People do want instant fixes. And everything gets so " politically" driven, such as PC actions and behaviors that it's hard to have an opposing opinion. I also think you are right that women have it better than ever. I would question, however, if "better" is enough?

I didn't say "better" was enough. My point is that with or without Rowan whining on a forum and burning his bra what's gonna happen is going to happen. And it IS happening which is why I said women have it a LOT better now than in the past.

And I don't have anything whatsoever against women with REAL legitimate complaints.
I was being facetious describing some of them.
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#54
(06-02-2014, 09:27 AM)Scrapper Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 11:24 PM)csrowan Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 07:01 PM)tvguy Wrote: Women have it better today than ever.

http://whenwomenrefuse.tumblr.com



Better than ever doesn't mean shit.

Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding!
But, he'll NEVER get it.

Wow you really said it, brilliant! but at least you did a little better than your typical two thumbs up post Laughing Stay off of Jeopardy.

Ding dong ding dong
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#55
(06-02-2014, 10:18 AM)tvguy Wrote:
Quote: 'Tiamat' pid='340774' dateline='1401716836']
TV, to a degree, I agree with you. People do want instant fixes. And everything gets so " politically" driven, such as PC actions and behaviors that it's hard to have an opposing opinion. I also think you are right that women have it better than ever. I would question, however, if "better" is enough?

I didn't say "better" was enough. My point is that with or without Rowan whining on a forum and burning his bra what's gonna happen is going to happen. And it IS happening which is why I said women have it a LOT better now than in the past.

And I don't have anything whatsoever against women with REAL legitimate complaints.
I was being facetious describing some of them.


I realize this about you. But it bears mentioning. I think something will NEVER change. I think women will always be victimized. Not universally, but it will always happen. At it's most basic level, you can't change the basic biology.
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#56
(06-02-2014, 07:11 PM)Tiamat Wrote:
(06-02-2014, 10:18 AM)tvguy Wrote:
Quote: 'Tiamat' pid='340774' dateline='1401716836']
TV, to a degree, I agree with you. People do want instant fixes. And everything gets so " politically" driven, such as PC actions and behaviors that it's hard to have an opposing opinion. I also think you are right that women have it better than ever. I would question, however, if "better" is enough?

I didn't say "better" was enough. My point is that with or without Rowan whining on a forum and burning his bra what's gonna happen is going to happen. And it IS happening which is why I said women have it a LOT better now than in the past.

And I don't have anything whatsoever against women with REAL legitimate complaints.
I was being facetious describing some of them.


I realize this about you. But it bears mentioning. I think something will NEVER change. I think women will always be victimized. Not universally, but it will always happen. At it's most basic level, you can't change the basic biology.

Bingo and no matter how much Fresca women drink or how many Virginia slims they smoke. Or how well they can grow a mustache.Razz
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#57
(06-02-2014, 07:16 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(06-02-2014, 07:11 PM)Tiamat Wrote:
(06-02-2014, 10:18 AM)tvguy Wrote:
Quote: 'Tiamat' pid='340774' dateline='1401716836']
TV, to a degree, I agree with you. People do want instant fixes. And everything gets so " politically" driven, such as PC actions and behaviors that it's hard to have an opposing opinion. I also think you are right that women have it better than ever. I would question, however, if "better" is enough?

I didn't say "better" was enough. My point is that with or without Rowan whining on a forum and burning his bra what's gonna happen is going to happen. And it IS happening which is why I said women have it a LOT better now than in the past.

And I don't have anything whatsoever against women with REAL legitimate complaints.
I was being facetious describing some of them.


I realize this about you. But it bears mentioning. I think something will NEVER change. I think women will always be victimized. Not universally, but it will always happen. At it's most basic level, you can't change the basic biology.

Bingo and no matter how much Fresca women drink or how many Virginia slims they smoke. Or how well they can grow a mustache.Razz


Yeah, my own is becoming just plain unmanageable. What's men's secret to controlling facial hair anyway?Razz
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#58
Razors. Or butch wax.
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#59
What is the patriarchy, and how does it affect men?

http://anti-imperialism.com/2014/03/23/u...ell-hooks/
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