Interesting Video and Perspective
#21
(08-09-2013, 05:30 AM)Prospector Wrote:
(08-08-2013, 10:22 PM)gapper Wrote:
(08-08-2013, 09:59 PM)Prospector Wrote:
(08-08-2013, 07:06 PM)gapper Wrote: Wow, a mother lode of BS.

Lead in this form does not leach into the water so really does little if any harm.

The miner says something to the effect that "every fishing hole in every stream in Oregon is like this.". That is unadulterated BS. Not every fishing hole in every stream offers salmon fishing, which clearly those larger bank sinkers were for. Steelhead are not in every stream, as some of those mid sized weights and jigs would be used for. And, as TV pointed out, Shad are found in few rivers and are targeted heavily in that stretch.. Smallmouth fishing is prevalent in that stretch as well, but few streams in Oregon have Smallmouth. These Einsteins evidently aren't smart enough to recognize that not every stream in Oregon is created equal or offer equal opportunities to fishers.

Plus, they target their dredging to areas where heavy materials tend to accumulate as that is where the gold is. More than likely much of this lead washed down in high water events and accumulated in what was first stated to be 100 yard stretch ,that turned to 50 yds. (quite a variable....) as the BS gathered steam.

Now this is a scientific opinion and proven studies based on your field of what? PhD in what?

Lead doesn't leach? Ok, based on your chemical analysis?

Come on, gives us the facts..you're always screaming for them show us your defined .lab results you've conducted.

In fact lead does leach but it depends on temperature and the water Ph. That is why they don't allow lead weights in pools or aquariums. You do realize they stop using lead beading on water pipes and lead in valves because of leaching contamination?
I thought it pretty obvious that this lead came out of the river, not a pool, an aquarium or water pipes. So, let's try to focus on the context of your video.
Here are some facts: "How does lead get into my drinking water?
The major sources of lead in drinking water are corrosion of household plumbing systems; and erosion of natural deposits. Lead enters the water (“leaches”) through contact with the plumbing. Lead leaches into water through corrosion – a dissolving or wearing away of metal caused by a chemical reaction between water and your plumbing. Lead can leach into water from pipes, solder, fixtures and faucets (brass), and fittings. The amount of lead in your water also depends on the types and amounts of minerals in the water, how long the water stays in the pipes, the amount of wear in the pipes, the water’s acidity and its temperature."..

http://water.epa.gov/drink/contaminants/...n/lead.cfm
Quote:I listen to the video and they seem pretty clear on what river and part...these guys were working and made the comment..."wonder what the other rivers in the State look like?"
Listen again, at the 3:59 mark the narrators says "Almost every fishing hole along the streams of Oregon the same way.". There is no question, there is only that statement. Further, to an open minded thinking person, the fact that this lead was allegedly dredged from the Umpqua at Tyee, one of the more popular stretches of fishing water on one of the most productive rivers in the state, the statement that this is the same way along "the streams of Oregon", should raise all sorts of red flags. And further still, given much of the fishable water in the state is not dredged at all, how in the heck would these guys know that this much lead is found in "almost every fishing hole along the streams of Oregon"? Hint: there is now way in hell they could know this.
Quote:I fish several rivers , lakes, and streams in this State and can't begin to tell you how much gear I've loss. So your statement seems far fetched to say that fisherman DON'T trash the water.
I didn't make any such statement. You are making this up. I fish a lot on many different waters and know all too well how some fishermen trash the water but, again, you are putting words in my mouth. And BTW, spending as much time on our waterways as I do, I am also very aware of the trashing some miners do on and around some of our waterways.
Quote:The problem here is when it's another opinion, in your book its always BS, but when you spill it and get called on it by another, you hit the "REPORT" button because it violate the rules of your hurt 'standard'.
Yes, you have posted opinion, but again, no fact. And speaking of no fact, no, I don't report opposing opinions, I report rules violations. You are again making things up.

Now, I have provided documentation that disputes your opinion that there is not a "shred of evidence" that dredging hurts rivers and streams. I have provided documentation that lead pollution in our water does not come from the weights shown in the video in rivers and streams. I have provided documentation found in the very video you posted, that these miners made a ridiculously hyperbolic statement concerning "Almost every fishing hole along the streams of Oregon."... So, how about you, Mr. Facts, providing some facts to support your opinion.

As it is, I stand by my statement that this video is BS and have supported that opinion with facts. Your turn. Give your facts to support the BS in the video you posted.

gee Gapper, what a beautiful deflection or BS statement as you call it! I have given citation and facts before but when the argument swings against your opinion or you didn't like it, you ignore the post, and just moved on, never owning up to your disinformation.

I don't have to defend the video because if you noticed when I posted it I stated " interesting video and perspective."

And we weren't discussing lead in drinking water. You stated that lead fishing weights don't leach? I merely used the beading and lead in valves as an example. The true video issue is DEQ prevention, harm to fish.

But that's alright your true purpose in your first post wasn't to support a educated position (note the "BS inflammation") it was to pick a fight with the thread poster as usual

It's a common trait with you that some are catching onto !

I have a suggestion, no one forces you to read anything, if you don't like it, don't say anything, and as far your statement about reporting violations, ah, yeah right!

PMs say otherwise, you're own words say otherwise

Enuf said, time to walk the beach and get coffee

Have a nice day. Smiling

As expected and as usual, you don't have any facts to back your assertions or implications, so you make it personal. You make it about me. And you even throw in the PM's thing, as if those who PM (you know, those non identified but on your side...Wink ) have a record of who reports and who doesn't.Laughing

This isn't about me. This isn't about reporting. This is about what I call a BS video you put up that tries to make hobby miners look good and fishers look bad. You put it on a public forum. I called it for what it is., as did TV. If you don't like that, take your own advice, don't read it. If you do read it but don't like what I say, take your own advice, don't say anything it. It works both ways, buddy.

If you want a place to put up BS videos and other misinformation you come up with without rebuttal, start your own forum and then you have the privilege of having your myths go unchallenged. You know, like a talk radio host. You can throw out lies and then hit the "mute" button when one attempts to disproves your false assertions.
That sounds like your preferred approach to throwing out your non-facts, Mr. Facts and figures. Smiling
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#22
http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/fs-0154-97/fs-0154-97.pdf

http://westernminingalliance.org/wp-cont...e-2012.pdf

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2012/4/prweb9379015.htm

You can use any of the citations to their research for their articles as you see fit.
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#23
(08-08-2013, 11:59 PM)PonderThis Wrote: Practically every bit of fishing line, hooks, weights, lures and other gear sold is going to end up as trash in our rivers, streams and lakes eventually. That must make everybody involved as an industry feel so proud.

You simply hate fishing so you makes this bullshit claim as if it's true? From a guy who doesn't fish??

You comment is absurd and shows how ignorant you are. I can't even remember the last time my line broke AT THE REEL so it ended up in the river.
Plus I Almost always stealhead fish with lures that I RARELY lose. Or I fish with fly and bobber which I never lose.
My friend who lives on the river has a pile of panther martin lures that he retired because they are beat to death from so much use.
Fly fishermen will also tell you they rarely if EVER lose their gear.

Plus salmon anglers in boats rarely snag up and lose their gear. It's mostly just bank anglers who get snagged.
You should stick with something you actually have knowledge about.
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#24
All you have to do is walk any river. Anyplace fishermen go, there's garbage.
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#25
(08-08-2013, 11:59 PM)PonderThis Wrote: Practically every bit of fishing line, hooks, weights, lures and other gear sold is going to end up as trash in our rivers, streams and lakes eventually. That must make everybody involved as an industry feel so proud.

I missed this in the shuffle.
Congratulations on hitting a new high in the most ridiculous, unsubstantiated, ignorant thing I've ever read in any forum.

As but one small, anecdotal example, I have bass tackle that I bought in the 80's and still use today. Industry people could only wish that every piece of tackle ends up lost in a river or lake!
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#26
(08-09-2013, 02:49 PM)PonderThis Wrote: All you have to do is walk any river. Anyplace fishermen go, there's garbage.

Yes there is. Brilliant.
But that has nothing to do with your most ignorant statement above.

BTW, walk most anyplace where people go, and there is garbage.
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#27
(08-09-2013, 01:28 PM)Prospector Wrote: http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/fs-0154-97/fs-0154-97.pdf

This is an interesting piece, although I find it of little if any relevance in terms of our situation in Oregon, as I am pretty confident we have much different soil and river bottom makeup in our rivers than those in Alaska. Also, it seems to only look at turbidity, and in a stream with limited dredge activity, compared to the many dredgers we have in certain waterways in Oregon, and the issues of beyond simply turbidity.

The other two pieces are produced by pro mining groups and hold no more validity for me than the scores of anti dredging citations I can find from environmental groups, but made a point not to share. I am very confident we are not going to find pro mining groups producing papers that say mining is bad, just as we are not going to find environmental groups that say mining is benign, or, as miners would have us believe, good for our river habitat.
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#28
(08-09-2013, 02:54 PM)gapper Wrote:
(08-09-2013, 02:49 PM)PonderThis Wrote: All you have to do is walk any river. Anyplace fishermen go, there's garbage.

Yes there is. Brilliant.
But that has nothing to do with your most ignorant statement above.

BTW, walk most anyplace where people go, and there is garbage.

Not fishing line garbage and discarded worm containers.

Besides, you're not disproving that fishermen junk up the rivers and streams.
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#29
(08-09-2013, 03:02 PM)PonderThis Wrote:
(08-09-2013, 02:54 PM)gapper Wrote:
(08-09-2013, 02:49 PM)PonderThis Wrote: All you have to do is walk any river. Anyplace fishermen go, there's garbage.

Yes there is. Brilliant.
But that has nothing to do with your most ignorant statement above.

BTW, walk most anyplace where people go, and there is garbage.

Not fishing line garbage and discarded worm containers.

Besides, you're not disproving that fishermen junk up the rivers and streams.
No, I'm not disproving that fishermen, as well as many non-fishermen junk up the rivers. I have never said they don't litter our rivers. That would be stupid, as it is so obvious they do.
That's why I always carry a garbage bag with me and take out a lot of garbage from fishers, miners, campers, tweakers, drinkers and all that litter our waterways.

Here you go: FISHER PEOPLE LITTER OUR WATERWAYS. Get it now?? I've never claimed otherwise. And it disgusts me as much or more than anyone.
Feel better now???Smiling
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#30
(08-09-2013, 03:02 PM)PonderThis Wrote:
(08-09-2013, 02:54 PM)gapper Wrote:
(08-09-2013, 02:49 PM)PonderThis Wrote: All you have to do is walk any river. Anyplace fishermen go, there's garbage.

Yes there is. Brilliant.
But that has nothing to do with your most ignorant statement above.

BTW, walk most anyplace where people go, and there is garbage.

Not fishing line garbage and discarded worm containers.

Damn, you are one sharp cookie. Not much gets by you!!!!!
Nope, we don't see a lot of worm boxes or fishing line at the ball park, the city park, along the freeways and biways or any of the other myriad places on would not expect to find discarded fishing stuff.
BRILLIANT!!!!Twitch

Laughing
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#31
[Image: ch870125.jpg]
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#32
(08-09-2013, 03:02 PM)PonderThis Wrote:
(08-09-2013, 02:54 PM)gapper Wrote:
(08-09-2013, 02:49 PM)PonderThis Wrote: All you have to do is walk any river. Anyplace fishermen go, there's garbage.

Yes there is. Brilliant.
But that has nothing to do with your most ignorant statement above.

BTW, walk most anyplace where people go, and there is garbage.

Not fishing line garbage and discarded worm containers.

Besides, you're not disproving that SOME fishermen junk up the rivers and streams.

My friend lives on the river. He fishes, his neighbors fish and lots of people stay at parks and fish. The point is that it is a place not open to the public but still heavily fished. There is NO trash.

You can go to any heavily fished part of the river and you will see trash. You go to any heavily used public place ANYWHERE and you will see trash.

BTW THIS fisherman not only NEVER leaves trash but I always pick up discarded fishing line if I see it.
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#33
Good one BOG ROCK!

Gapper been down this path before with her attempts to "inflame" a discussion and then run to the "report" button.

She ask for facts and figures, doesn't read it, or declares it doesn't fit in her little square.

Had she read the USGS article closely, it disputed her only cited Karuk argument, location not withstanding.

I swear its like dealing with a spoiled child. Somebody pleaeeese give her lolly pop back!

Similar ground different thread

http://www.roguevalleyforum.com/forum/sh...pid=279925

Off to the Newport Rogue Brewery for brews and music!
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#34
PPPPssssssttttt........ Mr. Facts. Gapper's a guy. That's been pointed out before but facts continue to escape you. (or, maybe referring to me in third person and as a "she" is another attempted belittling technique???)

You posted your links and said people can "use them as you see fit". I see them as fit to be disregard in the context of the issue of dredge mining in Oregon, but you're clearly not OK with that. Why don't you be honest for a change and say something like: "Here's a link to a study done in a completely different geological setting, on a completely different river than the Rogue, Illinois, Applegate, Umpqua or any stream in Oregon. And, two links to opinions from mining groups that have an obvious bias. If you don't take them for gospel relating to dredge mining in Oregon, I will make childish remarks about you and continue with personal attacks and attempted belittling of you, rather than offer any evidence to counter any arguments or opinion you may share.", as that is clearly what your actions support, rather than your words to do with them "as you see fit".

The good news is, you've already lost this debate, as the legislature passed the bill to reduce the number of permits, put more sensible regulations in place and better manage hobby miners. A long overdue change for the better. Smiling
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