Is Obama Creating a Martial-law-ready Military?

[Scar]

http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/10/m...itary.html

What kind of leader wants a military more loyal to himself than to the rule of law?

And why?

These are two questions to ponder when considering the strange happenings in the armed forces since Barack Obama took office.

Let's start with a hypothetical. Let's say you were a hard-left-wing commander in chief who wanted the military firmly in your corner. You'd certainly note that our armed forces have been a bastion of conservatism and Christian faith, and you'd know that its members generally weren't very fond of you. So how would you go about changing this?

The Obama administration has given affirmative action in the military a dose of steroids, promoting minorities and women -- and, I believe, homosexuals and lesbians -- at the expense of white men. By the way, is this yet another reason why Obama wanted homosexuals to be able to serve openly? After all, you can't target them for special treatment if you don't know who they are.

But the point is this: if I were that hypothetical hard-left-wing leader, I'd know that one way to change the military's political climate is the same way you do it in the nation at large.

Demographic manipulation.

more at the link on how obama is filling the military with rot and why the men that made this country great won't be a part of it.

[Wonky]

http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/10/m...itary.html

What kind of leader wants a military more loyal to himself than to the rule of law?

And why?

These are two questions to ponder when considering the strange happenings in the armed forces since Barack Obama took office.

Let's start with a hypothetical. Let's say you were a hard-left-wing commander in chief who wanted the military firmly in your corner. You'd certainly note that our armed forces have been a bastion of conservatism and Christian faith, and you'd know that its members generally weren't very fond of you. So how would you go about changing this?

The Obama administration has given affirmative action in the military a dose of steroids, promoting minorities and women -- and, I believe, homosexuals and lesbians -- at the expense of white men. By the way, is this yet another reason why Obama wanted homosexuals to be able to serve openly? After all, you can't target them for special treatment if you don't know who they are.

But the point is this: if I were that hypothetical hard-left-wing leader, I'd know that one way to change the military's political climate is the same way you do it in the nation at large.

Demographic manipulation.

more at the link on how obama is filling the military with rot and why the men that made this country great won't be a part of it.

From "The American Thinker".
You can put lipstick on a pig, but ...
Scar, we know you well.

[cletus1]

http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/10/m...itary.html

What kind of leader wants a military more loyal to himself than to the rule of law?

And why?

These are two questions to ponder when considering the strange happenings in the armed forces since Barack Obama took office.

Let's start with a hypothetical. Let's say you were a hard-left-wing commander in chief who wanted the military firmly in your corner. You'd certainly note that our armed forces have been a bastion of conservatism and Christian faith, and you'd know that its members generally weren't very fond of you. So how would you go about changing this?

The Obama administration has given affirmative action in the military a dose of steroids, promoting minorities and women -- and, I believe, homosexuals and lesbians -- at the expense of white men. By the way, is this yet another reason why Obama wanted homosexuals to be able to serve openly? After all, you can't target them for special treatment if you don't know who they are.

But the point is this: if I were that hypothetical hard-left-wing leader, I'd know that one way to change the military's political climate is the same way you do it in the nation at large.

Demographic manipulation.

more at the link on how obama is filling the military with rot and why the men that made this country great won't be a part of it.

From "The American Thinker".
You can put lipstick on a pig, but ...
Scar, we know you well.

Which begs the question, is there anything negative about Obama or Democrats that is so outrageously ridiculous that even Scar doesn't believe it? I don't think there is.

[csrowan]

http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/10/m...itary.html

What kind of leader wants a military more loyal to himself than to the rule of law?

And why?

These are two questions to ponder when considering the strange happenings in the armed forces since Barack Obama took office.

Let's start with a hypothetical. Let's say you were a hard-left-wing commander in chief who wanted the military firmly in your corner. You'd certainly note that our armed forces have been a bastion of conservatism and Christian faith, and you'd know that its members generally weren't very fond of you. So how would you go about changing this?

The Obama administration has given affirmative action in the military a dose of steroids, promoting minorities and women -- and, I believe, homosexuals and lesbians -- at the expense of white men. By the way, is this yet another reason why Obama wanted homosexuals to be able to serve openly? After all, you can't target them for special treatment if you don't know who they are.

But the point is this: if I were that hypothetical hard-left-wing leader, I'd know that one way to change the military's political climate is the same way you do it in the nation at large.

Demographic manipulation.

more at the link on how obama is filling the military with rot and why the men that made this country great won't be a part of it.

From "The American Thinker".
You can put lipstick on a pig, but ...
Scar, we know you well.

Which begs the question, is there anything negative about Obama or Democrats that is so outrageously ridiculous that even Scar doesn't believe it? I don't think there is.

Well, he hasn't suggested that Obama is an alien lizard yet...

[chuck white]

No but McCain was

[Wonky]

No but McCain was

I'm so very thankful for our freedoms.
That said, I wonder about photo's like this that suggest something so blatantly false.
No fan of Senator McCain, I do have a great deal of respect the his brace conduct during his imprisonment at the Hanoi Hilton. This "doctored" photo makes him look life a buffoon. A man of many faults, he is not a buffoon.
In a perfect world, this would be removed.
But then, it's not a perfect world.
Not even close.

[Larry]

No, I don't believe Obama is consciously creating a need for martial law to be enacted by a stroke of his pen.

Not consciously.

It WILL take him by surprise, because he still cannot fathom that ANYONE disagrees with his socialist agenda.

But, if he keeps going the way he is, He will NEED to do it, to save his ass.

[Valuesize]

No, I don't believe Obama is consciously creating a need for martial law to be enacted by a stroke of his pen.

Not consciously.

It WILL take him by surprise, because he still cannot fathom that ANYONE disagrees with his socialist agenda.

But, if he keeps going the way he is, He will NEED to do it, to save his ass.

I don't think he's worried, last I looked they still haven't arrested GWB yet.

[Scar]

[chuck white]

No but McCain was

I'm so very thankful for our freedoms.
That said, I wonder about photo's like this that suggest something so blatantly false.
No fan of Senator McCain, I do have a great deal of respect the his brace conduct during his imprisonment at the Hanoi Hilton. This "doctored" photo makes him look life a buffoon. A man of many faults, he is not a buffoon.
In a perfect world, this would be removed.
But then, it's not a perfect world.
Not even close.

Doctored?? Do you have a link proofing this or are you in denial?

[Leonard]

No but McCain was

I'm so very thankful for our freedoms.
That said, I wonder about photo's like this that suggest something so blatantly false.
No fan of Senator McCain, I do have a great deal of respect the his brace conduct during his imprisonment at the Hanoi Hilton. This "doctored" photo makes him look life a buffoon. A man of many faults, he is not a buffoon.
In a perfect world, this would be removed.
But then, it's not a perfect world.
Not even close.

Doctored?? Do you have a link proofing this or are you in denial?

I had no idea he was vacationing in Egypt.

And for the uninformed, "bracing" is the practice of bracing one's self against the bulkhead (wall) at the position of attention as a superior officer walks by.

The following is a synopsis of a transcribed dialoge of a 5 part video interview on June 22, 2007 between retired Army Colonel Earl Hopper and Gerard Kiley of Veterans Against John McCain with a link at the bottom.

The impression that McCain and the media has attempted to portray of McCain's 5 1/2 years as a prisoner of war in North Vietnam is about as far from the truth that one could possible go. McCain, from the first moments of his capture, had behaved as a COLLABORATOR and propaganda tool for his North Vietnamese captors. McCain had engaged in no less than 30, and likely as many as 38 anti-American propaganda broadcasts for Radio Hanoi during the period of his captivity. Far from the image of a dedicated American "hero" sweating it out in a North Vietnamese prisoner's "hotbox" for 5 1/2 years, McCain was often given "special" treatment by his captors, who were fully aware of his father's and grandfather's 4 star admiral positions with the Navy.

No one has ever witnessed McCain's supposed "torture" at the hands of his jailers. The consensus opinion of other POWs in McCain's camps was that McCain was NEVER tortured by the North Vietnamese. McCain's disgraceful and wholly reprehensible conduct (along with John Kerry) during the 1991-93 Senate Committee on POW/MIAs leaves no doubt that McCain is a traitor to this country and its veterans and especially to the families of POWs and MIAs. ..Ken Adachi.

From........................ http://educate-yourself.org/cn/earlhoppe...eb08.shtml

[tvguy]

[quote='chuck white' pid='311826' dateline='1381795707']
No but McCain was

I'm so very thankful for our freedoms.
That said, I wonder about photo's like this that suggest something so blatantly false.
No fan of Senator McCain, I do have a great deal of respect the his brace conduct during his imprisonment at the Hanoi Hilton. This "doctored" photo makes him look life a buffoon. A man of many faults, he is not a buffoon.
In a perfect world, this would be removed.
But then, it's not a perfect world.
Not even close.

Doctored?? Do you have a link proofing this or are you in denial?

Hey genius! I suppose this wasn't Photoshopped either.

Anyway it figures you would dig up some garbage to smear a real American hero. There's an alternate viewpoint to every story that ever happened. And we can always count on you to choose one that reflects your bitter hatred towards.................

Well, ANYONE.

Yeah no doubt Macain was sitting in a feather bed drinking campaign the entire time he was a POW.
And no doubt all of his fellow POW's who speak so proudly of his character are just lying.

[tvguy]

[quote='chuck white' pid='311826' dateline='1381795707']
No but McCain was

I'm so very thankful for our freedoms.
That said, I wonder about photo's like this that suggest something so blatantly false.
No fan of Senator McCain, I do have a great deal of respect the his brace conduct during his imprisonment at the Hanoi Hilton. This "doctored" photo makes him look life a buffoon. A man of many faults, he is not a buffoon.
In a perfect world, this would be removed.
But then, it's not a perfect world.
Not even close.

Doctored?? Do you have a link proofing this or are you in denial?

Hey genius! I suppose this wasn't Photoshopped either.

Anyway it figures you would dig up some garbage to smear a real American hero. There's an alternate viewpoint to every story that ever happened. And we can always count on you to choose one that reflects your bitter hatred towards.................

Well, ANYONE.

Yeah no doubt Macain was sitting in a feather bed drinking campaign the entire time he was a POW.
And no doubt all of his fellow POW's who speak so proudly of his character are just lying.

[tvguy]

Hey Osama the genius! I suppose this wasn't Photoshopped either.







Anyway it figures you would dig up some garbage to smear a real American hero. There's an alternate viewpoint to every story that ever happened. And we can always count on you to choose one that reflects your bitter hatred towards.................

Well, ANYONE.

Yeah no doubt Macain was sitting in a feather bed drinking campaign the entire time he was a POW.
And no doubt all of his fellow POW's who speak so proudly of his character are just lying.

[csrowan]

No but McCain was

I'm so very thankful for our freedoms.
That said, I wonder about photo's like this that suggest something so blatantly false.
No fan of Senator McCain, I do have a great deal of respect the his brace conduct during his imprisonment at the Hanoi Hilton. This "doctored" photo makes him look life a buffoon. A man of many faults, he is not a buffoon.
In a perfect world, this would be removed.
But then, it's not a perfect world.
Not even close.

Doctored?? Do you have a link proofing this or are you in denial?

I had no idea he was vacationing in Egypt.

And for the uninformed, "bracing" is the practice of bracing one's self against the bulkhead (wall) at the position of attention as a superior officer walks by.

The following is a synopsis of a transcribed dialoge of a 5 part video interview on June 22, 2007 between retired Army Colonel Earl Hopper and Gerard Kiley of Veterans Against John McCain with a link at the bottom.

The impression that McCain and the media has attempted to portray of McCain's 5 1/2 years as a prisoner of war in North Vietnam is about as far from the truth that one could possible go. McCain, from the first moments of his capture, had behaved as a COLLABORATOR and propaganda tool for his North Vietnamese captors. McCain had engaged in no less than 30, and likely as many as 38 anti-American propaganda broadcasts for Radio Hanoi during the period of his captivity. Far from the image of a dedicated American "hero" sweating it out in a North Vietnamese prisoner's "hotbox" for 5 1/2 years, McCain was often given "special" treatment by his captors, who were fully aware of his father's and grandfather's 4 star admiral positions with the Navy.

No one has ever witnessed McCain's supposed "torture" at the hands of his jailers. The consensus opinion of other POWs in McCain's camps was that McCain was NEVER tortured by the North Vietnamese. McCain's disgraceful and wholly reprehensible conduct (along with John Kerry) during the 1991-93 Senate Committee on POW/MIAs leaves no doubt that McCain is a traitor to this country and its veterans and especially to the families of POWs and MIAs. ..Ken Adachi.

From........................ http://educate-yourself.org/cn/earlhoppe...eb08.shtml

The interview is very interesting.

Unfortunately, it's hosted on a site that also talks about chemtrails, colloidal silver, reptilians, alien abductions, the NWO, the dangers of vaccines, mind control, and dowsing, among other things.

[tvguy]

No but McCain was

I'm so very thankful for our freedoms.
That said, I wonder about photo's like this that suggest something so blatantly false.
No fan of Senator McCain, I do have a great deal of respect the his brace conduct during his imprisonment at the Hanoi Hilton. This "doctored" photo makes him look life a buffoon. A man of many faults, he is not a buffoon.
In a perfect world, this would be removed.
But then, it's not a perfect world.
Not even close.

Doctored?? Do you have a link proofing this or are you in denial?

I had no idea he was vacationing in Egypt.

And for the uninformed, "bracing" is the practice of bracing one's self against the bulkhead (wall) at the position of attention as a superior officer walks by.

The following is a synopsis of a transcribed dialoge of a 5 part video interview on June 22, 2007 between retired Army Colonel Earl Hopper and Gerard Kiley of Veterans Against John McCain with a link at the bottom.

The impression that McCain and the media has attempted to portray of McCain's 5 1/2 years as a prisoner of war in North Vietnam is about as far from the truth that one could possible go. McCain, from the first moments of his capture, had behaved as a COLLABORATOR and propaganda tool for his North Vietnamese captors. McCain had engaged in no less than 30, and likely as many as 38 anti-American propaganda broadcasts for Radio Hanoi during the period of his captivity. Far from the image of a dedicated American "hero" sweating it out in a North Vietnamese prisoner's "hotbox" for 5 1/2 years, McCain was often given "special" treatment by his captors, who were fully aware of his father's and grandfather's 4 star admiral positions with the Navy.

No one has ever witnessed McCain's supposed "torture" at the hands of his jailers. The consensus opinion of other POWs in McCain's camps was that McCain was NEVER tortured by the North Vietnamese. McCain's disgraceful and wholly reprehensible conduct (along with John Kerry) during the 1991-93 Senate Committee on POW/MIAs leaves no doubt that McCain is a traitor to this country and its veterans and especially to the families of POWs and MIAs. ..Ken Adachi.

From........................ http://educate-yourself.org/cn/earlhoppe...eb08.shtml

The interview is very interesting.

Unfortunately, it's hosted on a site that also talks about chemtrails, colloidal silver, reptilians, alien abductions, the NWO, the dangers of vaccines, mind control, and dowsing, among other things.

[Leonard]

No but McCain was

I'm so very thankful for our freedoms.
That said, I wonder about photo's like this that suggest something so blatantly false.
No fan of Senator McCain, I do have a great deal of respect the his brace conduct during his imprisonment at the Hanoi Hilton. This "doctored" photo makes him look life a buffoon. A man of many faults, he is not a buffoon.
In a perfect world, this would be removed.
But then, it's not a perfect world.
Not even close.

Doctored?? Do you have a link proofing this or are you in denial?

I had no idea he was vacationing in Egypt.

And for the uninformed, "bracing" is the practice of bracing one's self against the bulkhead (wall) at the position of attention as a superior officer walks by.

The following is a synopsis of a transcribed dialoge of a 5 part video interview on June 22, 2007 between retired Army Colonel Earl Hopper and Gerard Kiley of Veterans Against John McCain with a link at the bottom.

The impression that McCain and the media has attempted to portray of McCain's 5 1/2 years as a prisoner of war in North Vietnam is about as far from the truth that one could possible go. McCain, from the first moments of his capture, had behaved as a COLLABORATOR and propaganda tool for his North Vietnamese captors. McCain had engaged in no less than 30, and likely as many as 38 anti-American propaganda broadcasts for Radio Hanoi during the period of his captivity. Far from the image of a dedicated American "hero" sweating it out in a North Vietnamese prisoner's "hotbox" for 5 1/2 years, McCain was often given "special" treatment by his captors, who were fully aware of his father's and grandfather's 4 star admiral positions with the Navy.

No one has ever witnessed McCain's supposed "torture" at the hands of his jailers. The consensus opinion of other POWs in McCain's camps was that McCain was NEVER tortured by the North Vietnamese. McCain's disgraceful and wholly reprehensible conduct (along with John Kerry) during the 1991-93 Senate Committee on POW/MIAs leaves no doubt that McCain is a traitor to this country and its veterans and especially to the families of POWs and MIAs. ..Ken Adachi.

From........................ http://educate-yourself.org/cn/earlhoppe...eb08.shtml

The interview is very interesting.

Unfortunately, it's hosted on a site that also talks about chemtrails, colloidal silver, reptilians, alien abductions, the NWO, the dangers of vaccines, mind control, and dowsing, among other things.

Well if you don't like that particular site how about picking one from here?...... https://www.google.com/search?q=john+mcc...=firefox-a

[csrowan]

I'm so very thankful for our freedoms.
That said, I wonder about photo's like this that suggest something so blatantly false.
No fan of Senator McCain, I do have a great deal of respect the his brace conduct during his imprisonment at the Hanoi Hilton. This "doctored" photo makes him look life a buffoon. A man of many faults, he is not a buffoon.
In a perfect world, this would be removed.
But then, it's not a perfect world.
Not even close.

Doctored?? Do you have a link proofing this or are you in denial?

I had no idea he was vacationing in Egypt.

And for the uninformed, "bracing" is the practice of bracing one's self against the bulkhead (wall) at the position of attention as a superior officer walks by.

The following is a synopsis of a transcribed dialoge of a 5 part video interview on June 22, 2007 between retired Army Colonel Earl Hopper and Gerard Kiley of Veterans Against John McCain with a link at the bottom.

The impression that McCain and the media has attempted to portray of McCain's 5 1/2 years as a prisoner of war in North Vietnam is about as far from the truth that one could possible go. McCain, from the first moments of his capture, had behaved as a COLLABORATOR and propaganda tool for his North Vietnamese captors. McCain had engaged in no less than 30, and likely as many as 38 anti-American propaganda broadcasts for Radio Hanoi during the period of his captivity. Far from the image of a dedicated American "hero" sweating it out in a North Vietnamese prisoner's "hotbox" for 5 1/2 years, McCain was often given "special" treatment by his captors, who were fully aware of his father's and grandfather's 4 star admiral positions with the Navy.

No one has ever witnessed McCain's supposed "torture" at the hands of his jailers. The consensus opinion of other POWs in McCain's camps was that McCain was NEVER tortured by the North Vietnamese. McCain's disgraceful and wholly reprehensible conduct (along with John Kerry) during the 1991-93 Senate Committee on POW/MIAs leaves no doubt that McCain is a traitor to this country and its veterans and especially to the families of POWs and MIAs. ..Ken Adachi.

From........................ http://educate-yourself.org/cn/earlhoppe...eb08.shtml

The interview is very interesting.

Unfortunately, it's hosted on a site that also talks about chemtrails, colloidal silver, reptilians, alien abductions, the NWO, the dangers of vaccines, mind control, and dowsing, among other things.

Well if you don't like that particular site how about picking one from here?...... https://www.google.com/search?q=john+mcc...=firefox-a

Reasonable enough.

How about this one:

No evidence McCain was a traitor

In an echo of the attacks from the 2000 South Carolina primary that dealt a critical blow to Sen. John McCain's presidential campaign, a new flyer says the Arizona senator is a traitor.
It says that when he was a POW, McCain was a "Hanoi Hilton songbird" who collaborated with the enemy.

But it provides scant evidence to back up this claim and it is strongly contradicted by many other accounts reviewed by PolitiFact: interviews with other POWs, an author who has written a McCain biography and the senator's own accounts.

Robert Timberg, author of John McCain: An American Odyssey , who has interviewed many POWs who served with McCain, said there's no evidence that he ever collaborated with the North Vietnamese. "I've never known of any occasion in which Sen. McCain provided the North Vietnamese with anything of value," Timberg said.

The flyer was sent to about 80 media organizations in South Carolina and is posted on the group's Web site. The flyer probably would have been ignored, but the McCain campaign issued a statement calling it "a vicious attack."

The flyer has a caricature of a surly-looking McCain in a prison cell under the words, "Hanoi Hilton Songbird." The second page is headlined "FACT SHEET: Military Record of John Sidney McCain III" and it begins with some accurate biographical information.

The flyer contains 1 pages of criticisms of McCain, but only a few support the accusation that he was helping the enemy:

• That he told his captors "Okay, I'll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital."

• That the Hanoi news media reported he had given information about his flight, rescue ships and the order of U.S. attacks.

• That he broke the military code because he answered questions from a Spanish psychiatrist who had apparently been cooperating with the North Vietnamese.

There is some truth to these claims, but collectively they do not prove McCain was involved in "collaborations with the enemy," as the flyer alleges.

In his memoir Faith of My Fathers, McCain says that he initially offered the information because he was badly injured and afraid of dying. But, he wrote, "I didn't intend to keep my word."

When he was later interrogated, McCain gave his ship's name and squadron number and confirmed the target of his failed mission, he wrote. He also gave the names of the Green Bay Packers' offensive line and said they were members of his squadron.

Asked to identify future targets, he mentioned North Vietnamese cities that U.S. planes had already bombed.

George "Bud" Day and Orson Swindle, fellow POWs, told PolitiFact that POWs sometimes were forced to talk when they were tortured, but they tried to tell lies to mislead their captors.

"We were all tortured and we wrote confessions under the pressure of torture," said Swindle, who was a cellmate with McCain and is active in his campaign. "John McCain never collaborated with the enemy. He, like every one of us, submitted to severe torture. John McCain did nothing dishonorable. He was heroic."

At one point, McCain broke down and signed a confession. But Timberg, the biographer, said McCain deliberately used misspellings, grammatical errors and Communist jargon to show he was writing under duress: "I am a black criminal and I have performed the deeds of an air pirate. I almost died, and the Vietnamese people saved my life . . . "

Day, a Medal of Honor winner who also is supporting McCain's campaign, said the flyer is "the most outrageous f------ lie I've ever heard."

The man behind the flyer is Gerard "Jerry" W. Kiley, 61, of Garnerville, N.Y., who says he served in Vietnam for about a year. He describes his group as a one-man operation unaffiliated with any political party or campaign. He says he opposes McCain because of the senator's efforts to normalize relations with the Vietnamese communist government and because, in his view, McCain has helped the U.S. government keep information about POWs classified.

"John McCain has made sure the information concerning the lives of Americans we clearly abandoned after the war remain in government files 40 years later," he says.

He teamed with political activist Ted Sampley of North Carolina to distribute the fliers to South Carolina media outlets this month. Sampley did not respond to requests for comment.

Sampley also is a longtime McCain opponent. In 2000, he gained attention when he called McCain a "Manchurian candidate" on his Web site and said that he was an agent of the Vietnamese. In 1993, Sampley was convicted of misdemeanor assault and sentenced to 180 days' probation for attacking a McCain aide, according to a 2004 article in the New York Times.

McCain is not the first politician to draw the men's ire. In 2004, they formed Vietnam Veterans Against John Kerry.

Kiley has twice interrupted events featuring Vietnamese Prime Minister Phan Van Khai, forcing an American flag in his hand on one occasion and throwing red wine at him on another, according to a Secret Service agent who later arrested Kiley. He admits he threw the wine, but he was later acquitted in federal court of threatening Khai.

Kiley says he bases his most damning charges against McCain — that McCain gave information about the schedule of U.S. attacks in Vietnam in 1967, the year his plane was shot down and McCain was captured — on the word of Earl Hopper, a retired Army colonel.

In an interview, Hopper's wife, Patty, said that Hopper wasn't able to address the charges over the phone because of poor hearing. She said that Hopper has long been involved in the POW movement and that Earl Hopper's son, Earl Jr., is missing in action in Vietnam.

She cited as evidence for Hopper's charges a 1973 article by McCain that ran in U.S. News and World Report and what she said were "declassified U.S. military documents" she claimed to possess describing McCain's collaboration. Patty Hopper said she was away from her Arizona home and could not fax those documents.

But the 1973 article does not back up the charges made in the flyer. It provides the same basic account as McCain's book, corroborated by Timberg's book, which was based on interviews with many POWs.

Timberg, Day and Swindle noted that McCain, the son of a Navy admiral, was offered an early release from the prison but refused so that he could adhere to the military's code of conduct.

Timberg said he was perplexed by the allegations.

"Why do they hate him? There can be lots of issues you disagree with him about. But why try to destroy him?"

Because of the seriousness of the charge, the utter absence of evidence and the clear intention to harm McCain just days before a critical Republican primary, we find this claim to be Pants on Fire wrong.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/...a-traitor/

[Leonard]

Doctored?? Do you have a link proofing this or are you in denial?

I had no idea he was vacationing in Egypt.

And for the uninformed, "bracing" is the practice of bracing one's self against the bulkhead (wall) at the position of attention as a superior officer walks by.

The following is a synopsis of a transcribed dialoge of a 5 part video interview on June 22, 2007 between retired Army Colonel Earl Hopper and Gerard Kiley of Veterans Against John McCain with a link at the bottom.

The impression that McCain and the media has attempted to portray of McCain's 5 1/2 years as a prisoner of war in North Vietnam is about as far from the truth that one could possible go. McCain, from the first moments of his capture, had behaved as a COLLABORATOR and propaganda tool for his North Vietnamese captors. McCain had engaged in no less than 30, and likely as many as 38 anti-American propaganda broadcasts for Radio Hanoi during the period of his captivity. Far from the image of a dedicated American "hero" sweating it out in a North Vietnamese prisoner's "hotbox" for 5 1/2 years, McCain was often given "special" treatment by his captors, who were fully aware of his father's and grandfather's 4 star admiral positions with the Navy.

No one has ever witnessed McCain's supposed "torture" at the hands of his jailers. The consensus opinion of other POWs in McCain's camps was that McCain was NEVER tortured by the North Vietnamese. McCain's disgraceful and wholly reprehensible conduct (along with John Kerry) during the 1991-93 Senate Committee on POW/MIAs leaves no doubt that McCain is a traitor to this country and its veterans and especially to the families of POWs and MIAs. ..Ken Adachi.

From........................ http://educate-yourself.org/cn/earlhoppe...eb08.shtml

The interview is very interesting.

Unfortunately, it's hosted on a site that also talks about chemtrails, colloidal silver, reptilians, alien abductions, the NWO, the dangers of vaccines, mind control, and dowsing, among other things.

Well if you don't like that particular site how about picking one from here?...... https://www.google.com/search?q=john+mcc...=firefox-a

Reasonable enough.

How about this one:

No evidence McCain was a traitor

In an echo of the attacks from the 2000 South Carolina primary that dealt a critical blow to Sen. John McCain's presidential campaign, a new flyer says the Arizona senator is a traitor.
It says that when he was a POW, McCain was a "Hanoi Hilton songbird" who collaborated with the enemy.

But it provides scant evidence to back up this claim and it is strongly contradicted by many other accounts reviewed by PolitiFact: interviews with other POWs, an author who has written a McCain biography and the senator's own accounts.

Robert Timberg, author of John McCain: An American Odyssey , who has interviewed many POWs who served with McCain, said there's no evidence that he ever collaborated with the North Vietnamese. "I've never known of any occasion in which Sen. McCain provided the North Vietnamese with anything of value," Timberg said.

The flyer was sent to about 80 media organizations in South Carolina and is posted on the group's Web site. The flyer probably would have been ignored, but the McCain campaign issued a statement calling it "a vicious attack."

The flyer has a caricature of a surly-looking McCain in a prison cell under the words, "Hanoi Hilton Songbird." The second page is headlined "FACT SHEET: Military Record of John Sidney McCain III" and it begins with some accurate biographical information.

The flyer contains 1 pages of criticisms of McCain, but only a few support the accusation that he was helping the enemy:

• That he told his captors "Okay, I'll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital."

• That the Hanoi news media reported he had given information about his flight, rescue ships and the order of U.S. attacks.

• That he broke the military code because he answered questions from a Spanish psychiatrist who had apparently been cooperating with the North Vietnamese.

There is some truth to these claims, but collectively they do not prove McCain was involved in "collaborations with the enemy," as the flyer alleges.

In his memoir Faith of My Fathers, McCain says that he initially offered the information because he was badly injured and afraid of dying. But, he wrote, "I didn't intend to keep my word."

When he was later interrogated, McCain gave his ship's name and squadron number and confirmed the target of his failed mission, he wrote. He also gave the names of the Green Bay Packers' offensive line and said they were members of his squadron.

Asked to identify future targets, he mentioned North Vietnamese cities that U.S. planes had already bombed.

George "Bud" Day and Orson Swindle, fellow POWs, told PolitiFact that POWs sometimes were forced to talk when they were tortured, but they tried to tell lies to mislead their captors.

"We were all tortured and we wrote confessions under the pressure of torture," said Swindle, who was a cellmate with McCain and is active in his campaign. "John McCain never collaborated with the enemy. He, like every one of us, submitted to severe torture. John McCain did nothing dishonorable. He was heroic."

At one point, McCain broke down and signed a confession. But Timberg, the biographer, said McCain deliberately used misspellings, grammatical errors and Communist jargon to show he was writing under duress: "I am a black criminal and I have performed the deeds of an air pirate. I almost died, and the Vietnamese people saved my life . . . "

Day, a Medal of Honor winner who also is supporting McCain's campaign, said the flyer is "the most outrageous f------ lie I've ever heard."

The man behind the flyer is Gerard "Jerry" W. Kiley, 61, of Garnerville, N.Y., who says he served in Vietnam for about a year. He describes his group as a one-man operation unaffiliated with any political party or campaign. He says he opposes McCain because of the senator's efforts to normalize relations with the Vietnamese communist government and because, in his view, McCain has helped the U.S. government keep information about POWs classified.

"John McCain has made sure the information concerning the lives of Americans we clearly abandoned after the war remain in government files 40 years later," he says.

He teamed with political activist Ted Sampley of North Carolina to distribute the fliers to South Carolina media outlets this month. Sampley did not respond to requests for comment.

Sampley also is a longtime McCain opponent. In 2000, he gained attention when he called McCain a "Manchurian candidate" on his Web site and said that he was an agent of the Vietnamese. In 1993, Sampley was convicted of misdemeanor assault and sentenced to 180 days' probation for attacking a McCain aide, according to a 2004 article in the New York Times.

McCain is not the first politician to draw the men's ire. In 2004, they formed Vietnam Veterans Against John Kerry.

Kiley has twice interrupted events featuring Vietnamese Prime Minister Phan Van Khai, forcing an American flag in his hand on one occasion and throwing red wine at him on another, according to a Secret Service agent who later arrested Kiley. He admits he threw the wine, but he was later acquitted in federal court of threatening Khai.

Kiley says he bases his most damning charges against McCain — that McCain gave information about the schedule of U.S. attacks in Vietnam in 1967, the year his plane was shot down and McCain was captured — on the word of Earl Hopper, a retired Army colonel.

In an interview, Hopper's wife, Patty, said that Hopper wasn't able to address the charges over the phone because of poor hearing. She said that Hopper has long been involved in the POW movement and that Earl Hopper's son, Earl Jr., is missing in action in Vietnam.

She cited as evidence for Hopper's charges a 1973 article by McCain that ran in U.S. News and World Report and what she said were "declassified U.S. military documents" she claimed to possess describing McCain's collaboration. Patty Hopper said she was away from her Arizona home and could not fax those documents.

But the 1973 article does not back up the charges made in the flyer. It provides the same basic account as McCain's book, corroborated by Timberg's book, which was based on interviews with many POWs.

Timberg, Day and Swindle noted that McCain, the son of a Navy admiral, was offered an early release from the prison but refused so that he could adhere to the military's code of conduct.

Timberg said he was perplexed by the allegations.

"Why do they hate him? There can be lots of issues you disagree with him about. But why try to destroy him?"

Because of the seriousness of the charge, the utter absence of evidence and the clear intention to harm McCain just days before a critical Republican primary, we find this claim to be Pants on Fire wrong.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/...a-traitor/

Titting for tatting won't solve this conundrum. Personally I think it is possible that he was a coward when a captive for he certainly showed nary a trace of backbone when he ran against Bush the lesser.

[Scar]

I had no idea he was vacationing in Egypt.

And for the uninformed, "bracing" is the practice of bracing one's self against the bulkhead (wall) at the position of attention as a superior officer walks by.

The following is a synopsis of a transcribed dialoge of a 5 part video interview on June 22, 2007 between retired Army Colonel Earl Hopper and Gerard Kiley of Veterans Against John McCain with a link at the bottom.

The impression that McCain and the media has attempted to portray of McCain's 5 1/2 years as a prisoner of war in North Vietnam is about as far from the truth that one could possible go. McCain, from the first moments of his capture, had behaved as a COLLABORATOR and propaganda tool for his North Vietnamese captors. McCain had engaged in no less than 30, and likely as many as 38 anti-American propaganda broadcasts for Radio Hanoi during the period of his captivity. Far from the image of a dedicated American "hero" sweating it out in a North Vietnamese prisoner's "hotbox" for 5 1/2 years, McCain was often given "special" treatment by his captors, who were fully aware of his father's and grandfather's 4 star admiral positions with the Navy.

No one has ever witnessed McCain's supposed "torture" at the hands of his jailers. The consensus opinion of other POWs in McCain's camps was that McCain was NEVER tortured by the North Vietnamese. McCain's disgraceful and wholly reprehensible conduct (along with John Kerry) during the 1991-93 Senate Committee on POW/MIAs leaves no doubt that McCain is a traitor to this country and its veterans and especially to the families of POWs and MIAs. ..Ken Adachi.

From........................ http://educate-yourself.org/cn/earlhoppe...eb08.shtml

The interview is very interesting.

Unfortunately, it's hosted on a site that also talks about chemtrails, colloidal silver, reptilians, alien abductions, the NWO, the dangers of vaccines, mind control, and dowsing, among other things.

Well if you don't like that particular site how about picking one from here?...... https://www.google.com/search?q=john+mcc...=firefox-a

Reasonable enough.

How about this one:

No evidence McCain was a traitor

In an echo of the attacks from the 2000 South Carolina primary that dealt a critical blow to Sen. John McCain's presidential campaign, a new flyer says the Arizona senator is a traitor.
It says that when he was a POW, McCain was a "Hanoi Hilton songbird" who collaborated with the enemy.

But it provides scant evidence to back up this claim and it is strongly contradicted by many other accounts reviewed by PolitiFact: interviews with other POWs, an author who has written a McCain biography and the senator's own accounts.

Robert Timberg, author of John McCain: An American Odyssey , who has interviewed many POWs who served with McCain, said there's no evidence that he ever collaborated with the North Vietnamese. "I've never known of any occasion in which Sen. McCain provided the North Vietnamese with anything of value," Timberg said.

The flyer was sent to about 80 media organizations in South Carolina and is posted on the group's Web site. The flyer probably would have been ignored, but the McCain campaign issued a statement calling it "a vicious attack."

The flyer has a caricature of a surly-looking McCain in a prison cell under the words, "Hanoi Hilton Songbird." The second page is headlined "FACT SHEET: Military Record of John Sidney McCain III" and it begins with some accurate biographical information.

The flyer contains 1 pages of criticisms of McCain, but only a few support the accusation that he was helping the enemy:

• That he told his captors "Okay, I'll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital."

• That the Hanoi news media reported he had given information about his flight, rescue ships and the order of U.S. attacks.

• That he broke the military code because he answered questions from a Spanish psychiatrist who had apparently been cooperating with the North Vietnamese.

There is some truth to these claims, but collectively they do not prove McCain was involved in "collaborations with the enemy," as the flyer alleges.

In his memoir Faith of My Fathers, McCain says that he initially offered the information because he was badly injured and afraid of dying. But, he wrote, "I didn't intend to keep my word."

When he was later interrogated, McCain gave his ship's name and squadron number and confirmed the target of his failed mission, he wrote. He also gave the names of the Green Bay Packers' offensive line and said they were members of his squadron.

Asked to identify future targets, he mentioned North Vietnamese cities that U.S. planes had already bombed.

George "Bud" Day and Orson Swindle, fellow POWs, told PolitiFact that POWs sometimes were forced to talk when they were tortured, but they tried to tell lies to mislead their captors.

"We were all tortured and we wrote confessions under the pressure of torture," said Swindle, who was a cellmate with McCain and is active in his campaign. "John McCain never collaborated with the enemy. He, like every one of us, submitted to severe torture. John McCain did nothing dishonorable. He was heroic."

At one point, McCain broke down and signed a confession. But Timberg, the biographer, said McCain deliberately used misspellings, grammatical errors and Communist jargon to show he was writing under duress: "I am a black criminal and I have performed the deeds of an air pirate. I almost died, and the Vietnamese people saved my life . . . "

Day, a Medal of Honor winner who also is supporting McCain's campaign, said the flyer is "the most outrageous f------ lie I've ever heard."

The man behind the flyer is Gerard "Jerry" W. Kiley, 61, of Garnerville, N.Y., who says he served in Vietnam for about a year. He describes his group as a one-man operation unaffiliated with any political party or campaign. He says he opposes McCain because of the senator's efforts to normalize relations with the Vietnamese communist government and because, in his view, McCain has helped the U.S. government keep information about POWs classified.

"John McCain has made sure the information concerning the lives of Americans we clearly abandoned after the war remain in government files 40 years later," he says.

He teamed with political activist Ted Sampley of North Carolina to distribute the fliers to South Carolina media outlets this month. Sampley did not respond to requests for comment.

Sampley also is a longtime McCain opponent. In 2000, he gained attention when he called McCain a "Manchurian candidate" on his Web site and said that he was an agent of the Vietnamese. In 1993, Sampley was convicted of misdemeanor assault and sentenced to 180 days' probation for attacking a McCain aide, according to a 2004 article in the New York Times.

McCain is not the first politician to draw the men's ire. In 2004, they formed Vietnam Veterans Against John Kerry.

Kiley has twice interrupted events featuring Vietnamese Prime Minister Phan Van Khai, forcing an American flag in his hand on one occasion and throwing red wine at him on another, according to a Secret Service agent who later arrested Kiley. He admits he threw the wine, but he was later acquitted in federal court of threatening Khai.

Kiley says he bases his most damning charges against McCain — that McCain gave information about the schedule of U.S. attacks in Vietnam in 1967, the year his plane was shot down and McCain was captured — on the word of Earl Hopper, a retired Army colonel.

In an interview, Hopper's wife, Patty, said that Hopper wasn't able to address the charges over the phone because of poor hearing. She said that Hopper has long been involved in the POW movement and that Earl Hopper's son, Earl Jr., is missing in action in Vietnam.

She cited as evidence for Hopper's charges a 1973 article by McCain that ran in U.S. News and World Report and what she said were "declassified U.S. military documents" she claimed to possess describing McCain's collaboration. Patty Hopper said she was away from her Arizona home and could not fax those documents.

But the 1973 article does not back up the charges made in the flyer. It provides the same basic account as McCain's book, corroborated by Timberg's book, which was based on interviews with many POWs.

Timberg, Day and Swindle noted that McCain, the son of a Navy admiral, was offered an early release from the prison but refused so that he could adhere to the military's code of conduct.

Timberg said he was perplexed by the allegations.

"Why do they hate him? There can be lots of issues you disagree with him about. But why try to destroy him?"

Because of the seriousness of the charge, the utter absence of evidence and the clear intention to harm McCain just days before a critical Republican primary, we find this claim to be Pants on Fire wrong.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/...a-traitor/

Titting for tatting won't solve this conundrum. Personally I think it is possible that he was a coward when a captive for he certainly showed nary a trace of backbone when he ran against Bush the lesser.

If you were something other than an America hating coward what you think about our hero's might matter.