Unpatriotic inmates to get bread, water

[tvguy]

I don't suppose treating ALL inmates with respect, trying to rehabilitate them, give them something to get them out of the cycle of criminal behavior might do something to relieve pressure on the overcrowded jail system?

No, that would be silly. Treat them like scum, lock up non-violent offenders right alongside repeat violent offenders, let the rich buy their way out most of the time, and let the poor rot. Then see what types of people you get going into jails. Then see what types of people you get coming OUT of jails...

You are right and you are wrong. First of all Arpaio is a sheriff and we are talking about a JAIL not a prison. I'm not too sure any JAILS are doing much rehabilitation.
These people are there to be PUNISHED there are programs for any who actually want to change their life when they are released. MOST DON'T.






Criminal in prisons ARE given opportunities. Neither Prisons or jails have the funding to be perfect.They already separate the violent prisoners from others.
Most prisons house inmates according to their behavior.

We have the best justice system in the world,the people who keep going back are indeed mostly the "scum" you mentioned.

You paint a picture that I see is coming from a "There must be a better way" logic. But a better way will cost a crap load of money. And that's fine IF it works because we would get paid back in the long run. You are not the only one who hopes and thinks there is a way to stop the Jail and prison recidivism.
There are dozens of methods being studied and used all over the country right now.

I just think you and many others think the answers are simple.

[csrowan]

I don't suppose treating ALL inmates with respect, trying to rehabilitate them, give them something to get them out of the cycle of criminal behavior might do something to relieve pressure on the overcrowded jail system?

No, that would be silly. Treat them like scum, lock up non-violent offenders right alongside repeat violent offenders, let the rich buy their way out most of the time, and let the poor rot. Then see what types of people you get going into jails. Then see what types of people you get coming OUT of jails...

You are right and you are wrong. First of all Arpaio is a sheriff and we are talking about a JAIL not a prison. I'm not too sure any JAILS are doing much rehabilitation.
These people are there to be PUNISHED there are programs for any who actually want to change their life when they are released. MOST DON'T.






Criminal in prisons ARE given opportunities. Neither Prisons or jails have the funding to be perfect.They already separate the violent prisoners from others.
Most prisons house inmates according to their behavior.

We have the best justice system in the world,the people who keep going back are indeed mostly the "scum" you mentioned.

You paint a picture that I see is coming from a "There must be a better way" logic. But a better way will cost a crap load of money. And that's fine IF it works because we would get paid back in the long run. You are not the only one who hopes and thinks there is a way to stop the Jail and prison recidivism.
There are dozens of methods being studied and used all over the country right now.

I just think you and many others think the answers are simple.

Best justice system in the world, my ass!

[tvguy]

I don't suppose treating ALL inmates with respect, trying to rehabilitate them, give them something to get them out of the cycle of criminal behavior might do something to relieve pressure on the overcrowded jail system?

No, that would be silly. Treat them like scum, lock up non-violent offenders right alongside repeat violent offenders, let the rich buy their way out most of the time, and let the poor rot. Then see what types of people you get going into jails. Then see what types of people you get coming OUT of jails...

You are right and you are wrong. First of all Arpaio is a sheriff and we are talking about a JAIL not a prison. I'm not too sure any JAILS are doing much rehabilitation.
These people are there to be PUNISHED there are programs for any who actually want to change their life when they are released. MOST DON'T.






Criminal in prisons ARE given opportunities. Neither Prisons or jails have the funding to be perfect.They already separate the violent prisoners from others.
Most prisons house inmates according to their behavior.

We have the best justice system in the world,the people who keep going back are indeed mostly the "scum" you mentioned.

You paint a picture that I see is coming from a "There must be a better way" logic. But a better way will cost a crap load of money. And that's fine IF it works because we would get paid back in the long run. You are not the only one who hopes and thinks there is a way to stop the Jail and prison recidivism.
There are dozens of methods being studied and used all over the country right now.

I just think you and many others think the answers are simple.

Best justice system in the world, my ass!

Go get locked up in some other countries before you whine about our system.You might find another country comparable to us.
You won't find another country with the sheer volume of lazy assholes who land in THEIR jails.

[csrowan]

Being number one in number of people incarcerated does NOT give me great faith in the amazing wonderfulness of our justice system. Especially when you see poor people go to jail for non violent offenses because of zero tolerance laws, while a politician caught with cocaine gets to go to rehab.

Meanwhile, the Netherlands is closing 19 prisons because they don't have anyone to put in them.

[PonderThis]

They need a few more laws on their books, don't they.

[TennisMom]

I'm not sure it is Sheriff Joe's place to teach patriotism to jail inmates. It shouldn't be his decision on what to feed prisoners. There should be a state standard somewhere to prevent this kind of abuse.

I hear lots of people talk about 'shipping them back to Mexico'. That sounds good but think of the logistics - how do we do that? Where does the money come from, and from whom? Not such an easy task, all things considered.

[csrowan]

Not only that, Mexico usually doesn't want them. It's all well and good to say "ship them back to wherever they came from", but it requires that the country of origin to say "sure, we'll take that convicted criminal off your hands." Most often, they don't want to take convicted criminals still serving sentences, no matter if they are in the US illegally or not, be they from Mexico, El Salvador, or Russia for that matter.

[PonderThis]

It's a social services nightmare for Mexico to deal with the returnees, who are apparently dumped in Tijuana no matter where they're really from, and with no way to get back there. Also, something like half of them actually have family in the U.S. (wives, kids, brothers, sisters, etc.) and being forced to leave the U.S. is also being forced to leave some of their family behind, never to see them again if they follow the law. This seems particularly draconian if you look at it from their perspective.

My opinion is people shouldn't need papers in order to exist, and we were all born on this planet equally. I think this notion of certain peoples being able to claim parts of the earth for only themselves and their own prodigy comes off as particularly piggish.

[chuck white]

Territorial rights predates humans.
So I'm not sure about giving that up.

[PonderThis]

You need some time alone in the mountains to think this through.

[chuck white]

You need some time alone in the mountains to think this through.

As long as I don't trespass on some bear's territory.

[PonderThis]

Bears are highly overrated as a danger, at least black bears are. I think you'd find they're willing to share their spaces with you.

[tvguy]

Being number one in number of people incarcerated does NOT give me great faith in the amazing wonderfulness of our justice system.
Especially when you see poor people go to jail for non violent offenses because of zero tolerance laws, while a politician caught with cocaine gets to go to rehab.

Meanwhile, the Netherlands is closing 19 prisons because they don't have anyone to put in them.

Most zero tolerance laws were implemented because people were sick and tired of judges who weren't doing their job.
They work for the most part but I will agree some people get screwed.

I have faith in out justice system because it's obvious how hard we work in this country to give people an attorney and a fair trial. And how hard we try to house criminals with out violating their rights.

What I don't do is only focus on any problems I can find and make ignorant conclusions about our justice system based on how many people we lock up.

[csrowan]

Given the disproportionate number of white people who actually are brought to trial as opposed to offered plea bargains, the disproportionate sentencing for similar crimes, even for first time offenders of different races, the for-profit prison system lobbying for harsher laws on petty crimes, I think you need to rethink who's being ignorant here.

[tvguy]

My opinion is people shouldn't need papers in order to exist, and we were all born on this planet equally. I think this notion of certain peoples being able to claim parts of the earth for only themselves and their own prodigy comes off as particularly piggish.

Your opinion is a pie in the sky fairy tale view of something you must have seen on some other planet on a Star Trek TV show.

What you wish for as far as far as needing or not needing borders STILL reminds me VERY MUCH of some young ,silly Miss America contestant


Chucks point flew by you. WE are animals. ALL animals are territorial. You would be too if you were hungry or starving because other animals showed up at YOUR territory and started eating your food.

[PonderThis]

But I'm smarter than an animal, and I've had time to think this through. We are humans more than we're Medfordites, Oregonians or Americans. And for humans to survive and prosper, we would all do better as humans to cooperate with each other freely, regardless of national borders and whatever other factors divide us. We go through these territorial games to all of our own detriments. If we could eliminate these factors, it would be like giving all of ourselves probably a doubling of income, with the same exact effort. Just think how that might propel society, and the advances we could make! That is what drives me. It isn't something I read in some book, it's something far more than that. I think it's something that come to all great minds that put in the required effort to think this through, but maybe that's just me.

[tvguy]

But I'm smarter than an animal, and I've had time to think this through. We are humans more than we're Medfordites, Oregonians or Americans. And for humans to survive and prosper, we would all do better as humans to cooperate with each other freely, regardless of national borders and whatever other factors divide us. We go through these territorial games to all of our own detriments. If we could eliminate these factors, it would be like giving all of ourselves probably a doubling of income, with the same exact effort. Just think how that might propel society, and the advances we could make! That is what drives me. It isn't something I read in some book, it's something far more than that. I think it's something that come to all great minds that put in the required effort to think this through, but maybe that's just me.

Great minds Like yours

Ponder... we would all do better as humans to cooperate with each other freely

No kidding? You figured that out and NO ONE ELSE knows this???






I could probably play guitar better if I had three arms and three hands. But that's not going to happen and I'm not ridiculous or I don't smoke enough weed to think it will ever happen.

You like to say things like people shouldn't need papers or to own land. Or we shouldn't need borders.
So F****ing what? What does some futuristic dream have to do with that thing you have such a hard time dealing with called REALITY?

[PonderThis]

Where did I say no one else knows this? Reading comprehension again, TV.

And, reality exists as I practice it.

[Scar]

But I'm smarter than an animal, and I've had time to think this through. We are humans more than we're Medfordites, Oregonians or Americans. And for humans to survive and prosper, we would all do better as humans to cooperate with each other freely, regardless of national borders and whatever other factors divide us. We go through these territorial games to all of our own detriments. If we could eliminate these factors, it would be like giving all of ourselves probably a doubling of income, with the same exact effort. Just think how that might propel society, and the advances we could make! That is what drives me. It isn't something I read in some book, it's something far more than that. I think it's something that come to all great minds that put in the required effort to think this through, but maybe that's just me.

[tvguy]

Where did I say no one else knows this? Reading comprehension again, TV.

And, reality exists as I practice it.

You continually make these Mr. obvious comments "AS IF" they never occurred to anyone else.
It doesn't take much of a "great mind" to make a conclusion that we would be much better off if we could all just get along When a crack head like Rodney King said the same.