"if-you-remove-it-they-will-spawn"

[gapper]

A great news article concerning our Rogue River.


http://www.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll...SLETTER100

[chuck white]

So now the same fish won't be spawning else where in the river.
It's not clear to me that this increased the number of fish, it just relocated them.

[Valuesize]

So now the same fish won't be spawning else where in the river.
It's not clear to me that this increased the number of fish, it just relocated them.

They won't be spawning elsewhere either.

[PonderThis]

I wondered, what is the impact on the earth for, example, of now using electricity and pumps to do what the first dam used to do? The 2nd dam generated electricity at one time, I always wondered about retrofitting it. Also, there used to be canoe tours of the backwaters at Gold Rey (or is it Savage Rapids, I get them mixed up), and I'm sure other species lost their habitat there (which, admittedly wasn't "natural", unless you want to claim it had become that way after decades or whatever length of time it had been).

I'm sure the end result of all this is more salmon, and it seems like salmon are important to the ecosystem in recycling nutrients back from the oceans into the upper areas of waterways. But I'm certainly not a biologist, and it's beyond my abilities to know the total ramifications of this, because if there's winners then surely there's other losers too?. So, I think this is good news, but I'm not certain of it.

(I wonder how the Lampreys are liking it?)

[gapper]

So now the same fish won't be spawning else where in the river.
It's not clear to me that this increased the number of fish, it just relocated them.

Before SRD was removed, it was documented that a significant number of salmon died trying to jump the dam, as the fish ladders were not adequately designed to be the attractors they needed to be, to draw the fish to them. It was also documented that a significant number of salmon dropped their eggs below the base of the dam, onto the bedrock that had been scoured to from the spill over the dam. It was documented that fish would jump over the sides of the fish ladders and perish on the rocks. It was documented that very significant numbers of smolt were killed during their out-migration to the ocean. Some by being chewed up in the north side turbine, some by falling over the sill of the dam to their death and some by predatory birds such as cormorants and mergansers.

Given the numbers of redds being counted have grown greatly over the last three years, the likelihood that the increase in numbers is simply from relocated salmon that were spawning elsewhere, is slim at best, in my opinion.
From the article:

Samarin's redd-survey crew in the fall found 186 identifiable redds in what used to be "Savage Lake" — the stagnant pond-like water that used to be upstream of Savage Rapids Dam along Highway 99 near the town of Rogue River. That's more than twice the 91 redds counted in that same stretch three years ago.

[gapper]

(I wonder how the Lampreys are liking it?)

I expect we could see a rebound in them as well.
Dams are very bad for Lamprey as they can not traverse fish ladders well.

[tvguy]

I wondered, what is the impact on the earth for, example, of now using electricity and pumps to do what the first dam used to do? The 2nd dam generated electricity at one time, I always wondered about retrofitting it.

I doubt that the problems from burning fossil fuels outweighs the benefits of having this damn OR totally re building it to produce electricity.

Also, there used to be canoe tours of the backwaters at Gold Rey (or is it Savage Rapids, I get them mixed up), and I'm sure other species lost their habitat there (which, admittedly wasn't "natural", unless you want to claim it had become that way after decades or whatever length of time it had been).

It was built around 1900 and it's Gold RAY dam Yes there was a really nice slough above the dam , Kelly's slough.. I've been in there dozens of times. It was basically a warm water fishery, bass bluegill carp etc. and a haven for birds and who knows what else. But regardless I think it was a fish migration impediment and we have already done too much to impact what was ones a free lunch and now has to be artificially maintained by stocking.

[gapper]

I wondered, what is the impact on the earth for, example, of now using electricity and pumps to do what the first dam used to do? The 2nd dam generated electricity at one time, I always wondered about retrofitting it.

I doubt that the problems from burning fossil fuels outweighs the benefits of having this damn OR totally re building it to produce electricity.

Also, there used to be canoe tours of the backwaters at Gold Rey (or is it Savage Rapids, I get them mixed up), and I'm sure other species lost their habitat there (which, admittedly wasn't "natural", unless you want to claim it had become that way after decades or whatever length of time it had been).

It was built around 1900 and it's Gold RAY dam Yes there was a really nice slough above the dam , Kelly's slough.. I've been in there dozens of times. It was basically a warm water fishery, bass bluegill carp etc. and a haven for birds and who knows what else. But regardless I think it was a fish migration impediment and we have already done too much to impact what was ones a free lunch and now has to be artificially maintained by stocking.

I agree. I used to bass fish in Kelly's slough. There were some real toads back in there! Most all of the fish that inhabited it year round were non-native species that had been introduced. The bass also contributed to the predation of salmon smolt. In early summer during the out-migration, we would find nice bass right at the mouth of the slough, where it joined the river, keying in on baby salmon. Salmon that, as you say, for the most part, anglers pay for.

[chuck white]

Probably would be a good place to run a dredge.