Family of Jahi McMath, Teen Declared Brain Dead After Tonsillectomy
#1
http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Fam...52191.html

Quote:The family of a 13-year-old girl left brain dead after tonsil surgery says Children’s Hospital Oakland is unwilling to meet their request to keep her on life-support through the holidays.

Jahi McMath's family says they feel doctors were dismissive of their request. The family attorney, Chris Dolan, says he will now seek to file a motion Friday morning to prevent the hospital from removing Jahi from a ventilator.

Dolan says they also sent a letter Thursday to Children’s Hospital asking for several things, among them, giving the 13-year-old a nutrition tube, keeping her on the ventilator through Christmas, and giving the family 48 hours’ notice should doctors decide to ignore the family’s wishes and take her off of life-support.

The family believes the 8th grader can still recover.<snip>

I have been discussing this elsewhere and have been labeled as un-Christian, rude, and heartless.

The girl has been declared brain dead twice now. She cannot breathe on her own. There is no brain activity. She will not recover, I don't care how hard you pray. The family involved has a facebook page where they posted a quote about "what is a black life worth?"...how is this a race issue? Who is paying for this prolonging? I read the attorney's cease/desist order, and some stuff highlighted make me believe that it certainly not the family. (http://www.cbdlaw.com/Letter-to-CHO.PDF)

Anyway, thought I would see what you all have to say. Enjoy!

I say, unplug it...donate any organs/tissue that are viable.
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#2
There have been cases where inactive brains come back on. It all has to do with how the brain was shut off. Certainly a physical damaged brain would have issues. But brain cells that suffered from an oxygen loss might restart. I'd personally wouldn't want someone to pull the plug for at least a year.
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#3
Other people are waiting for that medical care. Next?

[Image: unplugged1.jpg]
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#4
(12-19-2013, 11:01 PM)PonderThis Wrote: Other people are waiting for that medical care. Next?

[Image: unplugged1.jpg]

I'm not sure I would want that care after they botched a tonsillectomy.
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#5
I've come to feel like all humans are leaves on the same tree, and there's nothing particularly great about saving any one of us as individuals, as the tree is going to keep on doing great anyway.

I think it's a much more freeing philosophy to realize none of us are particularly important as individuals go.
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#6
(12-19-2013, 10:54 PM)chuck white Wrote: There have been cases where inactive brains come back on. It all has to do with how the brain was shut off. Certainly a physical damaged brain would have issues. But brain cells that suffered from an oxygen loss might restart. I'd personally wouldn't want someone to pull the plug for at least a year.

That's not brain death.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_death
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#7
(12-19-2013, 11:28 PM)csrowan Wrote:
(12-19-2013, 10:54 PM)chuck white Wrote: There have been cases where inactive brains come back on. It all has to do with how the brain was shut off. Certainly a physical damaged brain would have issues. But brain cells that suffered from an oxygen loss might restart. I'd personally wouldn't want someone to pull the plug for at least a year.

That's not brain death.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_death

Quote:Note that brain electrical activity can stop completely, or drop to such a low level as to be undetectable with most equipment. An EEG will therefore be flat, though this is sometimes also observed during deep anesthesia or cardiac arrest.

So little we know.
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#8
Exactly. And the preceding paragraph explains why it is important to distinguish between brain death and states that may mimic brain death.

Here's the FULL context:
Quote:It is important to distinguish between brain death and states that may mimic brain death (e.g., barbiturate overdose, alcohol intoxication, sedative overdose, hypothermia, hypoglycemia, coma or chronic vegetative states). Some comatose patients can recover, and some patients with severe irreversible neurological dysfunction will nonetheless retain some lower brain functions such as spontaneous respiration, despite the losses of both cortex and brain stem functionality, such is the case with anencephaly.

Note that brain electrical activity can stop completely, or drop to such a low level as to be undetectable with most equipment. An EEG will therefore be flat, though this is sometimes also observed during deep anesthesia or cardiac arrest. Although in the United States a flat EEG test is not required to certify death, it is considered to have confirmatory value. In the UK it is not considered to be of value.[citation needed]

The diagnosis of brain death needs to be rigorous, in order to be certain that the condition is irreversible. Legal criteria vary, but in general they require neurological examinations by two independent physicians. The exams must show complete and irreversible absence of brain function (brain stem function in UK),[10] and may include two isoelectric (flat-line) EEGs 24 hours apart (less in other countries where it is accepted that if the cause of the dysfunction is a clear physical trauma there is no need to wait that long to establish irreversibility). The widely-adopted[11] Uniform Determination of Death Act in the United States attempts to standardize criteria. The patient should have a normal temperature and be free of drugs that can suppress brain activity if the diagnosis is to be made on EEG criteria.
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#9
http://www.notdeadyet.org/2008/03/brain-...racle.html

Quote:Last week, Dateline featured a story on Zack Dunlap. Dunlap, 21, had a bad accident on a 4-wheeler, causing severe head trauma. At the hospital, they declared him “brain dead” – and it really does appear that they did some thorough testing to determine this....
By all counts, Zack has made a remarkable recovery. He is mobile, alert, interactive – and he’s back home – 48 days after being declared “dead.”
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#10
I can understand the families desire to wait to unplug, that time being determined by whatever the family feels is best so that can achieve closure and not always wonder "what if". Personally an incident very close to me occurred where I think the decision to unplug was made far too soon, (people have taken longer to determine what restaurant to eat out at) based on the so called "expert opinion" of a Dr. It's always bothered me because I always wonder, what if they had just waited another 48 hours.....she was young and in great health prior to the incident and the human body is quite unique in it's ability to overcome in spite of what the Dr's charts and graphs may indicate, and frankly they are prone to rush to judgement as they have many patients to tend to.
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#11
(12-20-2013, 07:46 AM)chuck white Wrote: http://www.notdeadyet.org/2008/03/brain-...racle.html

Quote:Last week, Dateline featured a story on Zack Dunlap. Dunlap, 21, had a bad accident on a 4-wheeler, causing severe head trauma. At the hospital, they declared him “brain dead” – and it really does appear that they did some thorough testing to determine this....
By all counts, Zack has made a remarkable recovery. He is mobile, alert, interactive – and he’s back home – 48 days after being declared “dead.”


Two can play this game.
Quote:While tests can be fallible, Zack’s doctors insist the results of his were accurate, and that the hospital would have detected Zack’s renewed vital signs before any organ harvesting.

Sure, "miracles" (basically, things we don't understand) happen, but they're only "miracles" because they happen so rarely. Could the girl come out of it? Possibly. But if she's been legally brain dead for longer than it takes to run a few tests and scrape a pocketknife along the sole of your foot, she's not coming back. Not without blood flow to her brain.

Zack had zero blood flow to his brain. That was verified. Somehow the blood flow started back up, and there was no or minimal brain damage from lack of oxygen, so it couldn't have been without blood for very long. If enough time has passed in the case of Jahi McMath, it's already far too late.
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#12
http://www.surgeryencyclopedia.com/St-Wr...ctomy.html
Quote:Morbidity other than minor post-surgical infection is uncommon. About one in every 15,000 tonsillectomies ends in death, either from the anesthesia or bleeding five to seven days after the operation.
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#13
I "died" during dental surgery. My spirit floated to the top of the room and watched on with detached disinterest*. They saved me, but it would have been easy to die too.

*I realize now this is an illusion that can be replicated by lack of oxygen.
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#14
(12-19-2013, 10:09 PM)broadzilla Wrote: I say, unplug it...donate any organs/tissue that are viable.

I agree.
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#15
(12-20-2013, 10:53 AM)Scrapper Wrote:
(12-19-2013, 10:09 PM)broadzilla Wrote: I say, unplug it...donate any organs/tissue that are viable.

I agree.

Because she's black?


I love playing the race card.
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#16
Judge Orders Oakland Hospital to Keep Jahi McMath on Life Support
http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Jud...08851.html

Quote:A judge has ordered an Oakland hospital to keep a 13-year-old girl who was declared brain dead after her tonsil surgery on life support.

The family of Jahi McMath and Oakland Children's Hospital agreed at a hearing Friday to get together and choose an independent neurologist to further examine the girl and determine her condition.

Both sides will be back in court Monday, at which point the judge says he will appoint an independent doctor to examine Jahi.

The McMath family has been granted a temporary restraining order that prevents the hospital from taking Jahi off a ventilator while another opinion regarding her condition is sought. The hospital says it will comply with the judge’s ruling.
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#17
Latest update: judge okays removal from life support, gives day and time, family wants Jahi moved to nursing home before then so plug isn't pulled, hospital refuses to surgically implant feeding and air tubes into legally dead body (required for long term care of body), nursing home refuses to take Jahi when they learn of this... family desperately looking for another nursing home before time runs out, attorney trying to file restraining order to prevent hospital from removing life support (again) while this is all figured out.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/hospital-won...sing-home/
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#18
(12-19-2013, 10:09 PM)broadzilla Wrote: http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Fam...52191.html

Quote:The family of a 13-year-old girl left brain dead after tonsil surgery says Children’s Hospital Oakland is unwilling to meet their request to keep her on life-support through the holidays.

Jahi McMath's family says they feel doctors were dismissive of their request. The family attorney, Chris Dolan, says he will now seek to file a motion Friday morning to prevent the hospital from removing Jahi from a ventilator.

Dolan says they also sent a letter Thursday to Children’s Hospital asking for several things, among them, giving the 13-year-old a nutrition tube, keeping her on the ventilator through Christmas, and giving the family 48 hours’ notice should doctors decide to ignore the family’s wishes and take her off of life-support.

The family believes the 8th grader can still recover.<snip>

I have been discussing this elsewhere and have been labeled as un-Christian, rude, and heartless.

The girl has been declared brain dead twice now. She cannot breathe on her own. There is no brain activity. She will not recover, I don't care how hard you pray. The family involved has a facebook page where they posted a quote about "what is a black life worth?"...how is this a race issue? Who is paying for this prolonging? I read the attorney's cease/desist order, and some stuff highlighted make me believe that it certainly not the family. (http://www.cbdlaw.com/Letter-to-CHO.PDF)

Anyway, thought I would see what you all have to say. Enjoy!

I say, unplug it...donate any organs/tissue that are viable.


We've come a long way from Karen Ann Quinlan.
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#19
Give her some LSD, That might start her brain again.
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#20
(12-19-2013, 11:04 PM)chuck white Wrote:
(12-19-2013, 11:01 PM)PonderThis Wrote: Other people are waiting for that medical care. Next?

[Image: unplugged1.jpg]

I'm not sure I would want that care after they botched a tonsillectomy.

There are risks to any surgery, even routine ones. Shit happens.
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