Vaccination law 'is really unfair'
#1
Not my words. The words of the person in this article about Oregon standards for immunizations.

I don't really have a problem with people choosing not to have them, but it doesn't seem unfair for the State to at least require that they receive other information than the source they may have used to come to their decision not to immunize. Like hearing it word of mouth.


http://www.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll.../401100314

Quote:In Jackson County, 8.5 percent of kindergartners claimed a religious exemption in 2013, with religion classified as "any system of beliefs, practices or ethical values."

In Ashland, the numbers are even higher, with about 1 in 4 children in public schools claiming a religious exemption.
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#2
The reality is that most folks who choose not to vaccinate have already done their homework when making their decision. They are far more informed then the roll up your sleeve because the government says so crowd.
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#3
(01-10-2014, 10:09 AM)GPnative Wrote: The reality is that most folks who choose not to vaccinate have already done their homework when making their decision. They are far more informed then the roll up your sleeve because the government says so crowd.

I think that's true to a degree, but not as true to another degree. People always have a tendency to follow their gurus or other leaders without question.
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#4
It's always nice to get other people to prevent the diseases that plague us humans than ourselves, too. Let them take the risks, and we'll still get the benefits as long as enough of them stay vaccinated.
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#5
(01-10-2014, 10:23 AM)Tiamat Wrote:
(01-10-2014, 10:09 AM)GPnative Wrote: The reality is that most folks who choose not to vaccinate have already done their homework when making their decision. They are far more informed then the roll up your sleeve because the government says so crowd.

I think that's true to a degree, but not as true to another degree. People always have a tendency to follow their gurus or other leaders without question.

Agreed, so to be fair if it was really about people being allowed to make informed decisions I guess people who choose to vaccinate should also be required to meet with someone or watch a video presenting the other side of the issue. Getting vaccinated because that's what the vaccine sponsored CDC says to do is not being informed.
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#6
(01-10-2014, 10:24 AM)PonderThis Wrote: It's always nice to get other people to prevent the diseases that plague us humans than ourselves, too. Let them take the risks, and we'll still get the benefits as long as enough of them stay vaccinated.

flawed logic, if vaccines worked then people who ARE vaccinated would have no reason to worry, the "herd" mentality is bunk science, pure and simple
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#7
I'd like to hear what some others have to say on that. Medical knowledge is not my strong point, but I'm pretty sure some diseases have been nearly or completely wiped out by maintaining immunization in a substantial portion of the populace, from which everyone benefits, even the ones who chose not to join in. Sure, there's a small individual risk involved, and those that avoided vaccination skated on that. They and their progeny still benefitted.

At least, that's what I'm thinking. That's why I'd like to hear some others chime in here.
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#8
Lots of swearing, but what do you expect from Penn?
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#9
A graph and a lot more information from the CDC, including an explanation of why you end up with more vaccinated people sick than unvaccinated people. (It's really simple. It's because we've got so many vaccinated people, and the vaccines aren't quite 100% effective, so by the time the tiny number of unvaccinated people have gotten sick, there aren't any more unvaccinated people to get sick.)

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/6mishome.htm

[Image: measles_incidence.gif]
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#10
(01-10-2014, 10:43 AM)PonderThis Wrote: I'd like to hear what some others have to say on that. Medical knowledge is not my strong point, but I'm pretty sure some diseases have been nearly or completely wiped out by maintaining immunization in a substantial portion of the populace, from which everyone benefits, even the ones who chose not to join in. Sure, there's a small individual risk involved, and those that avoided vaccination skated on that. They and their progeny still benefitted.

At least, that's what I'm thinking. That's why I'd like to hear some others chime in here.

Statistically speaking most diseases were already in decline well before they were being vaccinated for.

I realize this is one of those touchy subjects with very strong feelings on both sides. My own experience I went into with an open mind looking for facts and info in order to make an informed decision. I met with primary care Drs, I went to seminars and I read many a publication and at the end of the day I could not in good conscience let a perfectly healthy newborn being only minutes old be jabbed with a chemical brew. No one, not even Dr's can tell you it's perfectly safe, because it's not all they can give you is stats saying complications are rare, but people do die and people do experience life altering outcomes.

Speaking of my meeting with primary care Drs, the real eye opening experience was how ill informed they were to answer my questions. Outside of their canned marketing lines they really know very little about it, which was a red flag to me.

After my experience and study it came down to this, would I (me personally) take any of those vaccines and the answer was a confident NO, so If I am not willing to put it in my blood stream I am certainly not putting it in the blood stream of my children.

It really annoys me that now my parental rights are being usurped and I need to spend the money on a co-pay to get my little dr's note even though I could school the Dr in vaccination details, that or I will be forced to watch a propaganda video.

And regarding the Penn & Teller vid, I don't take life and death medical advice from Vegas magicians, in my definition, that would be bullshit.
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#11
(01-10-2014, 10:09 AM)GPnative Wrote: The reality is that most folks who choose not to vaccinate have already done their homework when making their decision. They are far more informed then the roll up your sleeve because the government says so crowd.

Really , Are you saying that just because you believe them?

I personally think it's the same "far more informed crowd" who refuse to face facts.

You say...I never considered getting a vaccination for my children just because the "Government" says so.
I guess by government you mean the center for disease control and prevention?? or the American medical association? Or the The American Academy of Pediatrics.

I respect YOUR opinion but I think there's an anti government anti conform attitude is some places that's based on everything BUT being informed.
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#12
(01-10-2014, 11:17 AM)GPnative Wrote: And regarding the Penn & Teller vid, I don't take life and death medical advice from Vegas magicians, in my definition, that would be bullshit.

Who cares WHO presented the video. pretty sure they didn't just make all those facts up.You are shooting the messenger.
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#13
(01-10-2014, 12:15 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(01-10-2014, 10:09 AM)GPnative Wrote: The reality is that most folks who choose not to vaccinate have already done their homework when making their decision. They are far more informed then the roll up your sleeve because the government says so crowd.

Really , Are you saying that just because you believe them?

I personally think it's the same "far more informed crowd" who refuse to face facts.

You say...I never considered getting a vaccination for my children just because the "Government" says so.
I guess by government you mean the center for disease control and prevention?? or the American medical association? Or the The American Academy of Pediatrics.

precisely, those groups and more, heavily lobbied by the vaccine manufactures, who incidentally are fully protected against lawsuits when their product kills your child.
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#14
And when their product saves countless lives?
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#15
(01-10-2014, 12:42 PM)GPnative Wrote:
(01-10-2014, 12:15 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(01-10-2014, 10:09 AM)GPnative Wrote: The reality is that most folks who choose not to vaccinate have already done their homework when making their decision. They are far more informed then the roll up your sleeve because the government says so crowd.

Really , Are you saying that just because you believe them?

I personally think it's the same "far more informed crowd" who refuse to face facts.

You say...I never considered getting a vaccination for my children just because the "Government" says so.
I guess by government you mean the center for disease control and prevention?? or the American medical association? Or the The American Academy of Pediatrics.

precisely, those groups and more, heavily lobbied by the vaccine manufactures, who incidentally are fully protected against lawsuits when their product kills your child.

What about the tens of thousands of physicians in the USA who recommend vaccinations for children?
Who is buttering their bread? Who is coercing them to break their Hippocratic Oath to do no harm?
What percent of physicians tell parents to refuse vaccinations?
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#16
Danger Zones of Parental Vaccine Refusal
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/dang...e-refusal/
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#17
I guess I have to ask the question, what eradicated the diseases we did have years ago?

Did time eliminate them? I'm thinking of smallpox, polio, yellow fever, diphtheria, etc.

Every year I hear of whooping cough cases on the rise? Is this because of the lack of immunization?

I understand there is a immunization risk but also understand the risk of a pandemic.
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#18
(01-10-2014, 01:04 PM)Prospector Wrote: Every year I hear of whooping cough cases on the rise? Is this because of the lack of immunization?

I think so, plus I think it comes from immigrants who don't have the vaccinations in their counties.
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#19
Of course it's immigrants. It couldn't be us traveling to their countries. Smiling
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#20
How lower vaccination rates lowers herd immunity and leads to outbreaks: real world example

http://justthevax.blogspot.com/2013/06/m...h.html?m=1
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