The Mess in The Ukraine.

[MarkM]

Let's not forget Obama has been widely criticized as a steely-eyed, cold-blooded drone killer.

[SFLiberal]

What's up with Hillary comparing Putin to Hitler? That's really going to help.

[SFLiberal]

Let's not forget Obama has been widely criticized as a steely-eyed, cold-blooded drone killer.

Yes, by the left. They complained so much that he stopped them completely in Pakistan and has curtained them everywhere else. The right and left have complained about him having a kill list of Americans that have not had any due process. Present evidence to a panel of judges and then kill them. Obama picks and chooses who HE wants to kill.

[orygunluvr]

Did he mean flexibility, like he can be bent over by Putin?

[SFLiberal]

[Valuesize]

Now I see why you do this, it''s fun.

[cletus1]

What's up with Hillary comparing Putin to Hitler? That's really going to help.

[Valuesize]

What's up with Hillary comparing Putin to Hitler? That's really going to help.

Another foot in her mouth. I hope the democrats can come up with someone better to run next election.

[Wonky]

It's a damn shame how these (this) topics run off the rails so soon, and so completely.
The "Mess in the Ukraine" is a real problem with world wide consequences. There is no doubt our internal politics has some relevance here but it's taking over the subject on our forum.

We all have access to various news outlets, and we might learn by sharing information from "across the board". The reactions of political leaders in the US is but one factor in this mess. We might want to lighten up on the partisan attacks and look more toward the international reactions to the problems there.

I'm really tired of the debate about Obama's leadership qualities, or what McCain (and others) might do if they were turned loose with weapons.

Below is a link to a BBC story indicating the importance of the EU. An example of "news we can use"

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26461426

[cletus1]

It's a damn shame how these (this) topics run off the rails so soon, and so completely.
The "Mess in the Ukraine" is a real problem with world wide consequences. There is no doubt our internal politics has some relevance here but it's taking over the subject on our forum.

We all have access to various news outlets, and we might learn by sharing information from "across the board". The reactions of political leaders in the US is but one factor in this mess. We might want to lighten up on the partisan attacks and look more toward the international reactions to the problems there.

I'm really tired of the debate about Obama's leadership qualities, or what McCain (and others) might do if they were turned loose with weapons.

Below is a link to a BBC story indicating the importance of the EU. An example of "news we can use"

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26461426

What about that Hitler video I posted. Am I the only one that found that Catchy tune entertaining?

[tvguy]

It's a damn shame how these (this) topics run off the rails so soon, and so completely.
The "Mess in the Ukraine" is a real problem with world wide consequences. There is no doubt our internal politics has some relevance here but it's taking over the subject on our forum.

We all have access to various news outlets, and we might learn by sharing information from "across the board". The reactions of political leaders in the US is but one factor in this mess. We might want to lighten up on the partisan attacks and look more toward the international reactions to the problems there.

I'm really tired of the debate about Obama's leadership qualities, or what McCain (and others) might do if they were turned loose with weapons.

Below is a link to a BBC story indicating the importance of the EU. An example of "news we can use"

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26461426

You aren't happy with what is being tossed around eh? Go figure. Me neither most of the time. But unlike you I know it's not about to change. Now or never.
Just ignore it dude you aren't going to get ANYONE to post what YOU want.

There are VERY bitter republicans who are and always will try and post ANYTHING to vilify Obama or any other president.
There were dems who did the same thing when we had Bush.

Whatever, it aint no thang to worry about.

[csrowan]

Some sources with a closer look at what's going on. You know, from a more personal standpoint. I recommend some of the bloggers, who were talking about what was going on in the Ukraine for a while before it suddenly became news in the US.


http://www.ukrainianjournal.com/

http://foreignnotes.blogspot.com/

http://russianreport.wordpress.com/

http://www.ukrainianweek.com/

http://www.bunews.com.ua/

http://www.brama.com/news/

http://www.kyivpost.com/

http://halldor2.blogspot.com/

[Wonky]

It's a damn shame how these (this) topics run off the rails so soon, and so completely.
The "Mess in the Ukraine" is a real problem with world wide consequences. There is no doubt our internal politics has some relevance here but it's taking over the subject on our forum.

We all have access to various news outlets, and we might learn by sharing information from "across the board". The reactions of political leaders in the US is but one factor in this mess. We might want to lighten up on the partisan attacks and look more toward the international reactions to the problems there.

I'm really tired of the debate about Obama's leadership qualities, or what McCain (and others) might do if they were turned loose with weapons.

Below is a link to a BBC story indicating the importance of the EU. An example of "news we can use"

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26461426

You aren't happy with what is being tossed around eh? Go figure. Me neither most of the time. But unlike you I know it's not about to change. Now or never.
Just ignore it dude you aren't going to get ANYONE to post what YOU want.

There are VERY bitter republicans who are and always will try and post ANYTHING to vilify Obama or any other president.
There were dems who did the same thing when we had Bush.

Whatever, it aint no thang to worry about.

Okay, it ain't no thang. Granted.
Just that we seem to have some attention deficient disorder and have trouble staying on point. If there is no point in staying on point, that's another point, just to make a point.
Above, Ashland's CS has given us all kinds of blogs to check out.
There again, not the point.
The point would be for CS to tell us about some of the stuff he has read there and offer it for discussion. THEN give us the links. (IMHO).

Alas. What's the point.

[csrowan]

Actually, I gave links to news journals and online newspapers, published in or about the Ukraine or Crimea, as well as some blogs that are by Ukraineans or have some focus on the Ukraine.

I merely suggested that if you want a better idea of what's going on, you get a better source than US or even British news, and offered some possibilities. I'd still suggest a collection of sources, though, as there are many sides to this story.

[chuck white]

My Russian friend has some interesting things to say about this. I haven't checked the facts yet, but according to him. Ukraine was part of Russia and Stalin split it off to form Ukraine. Something about getting more votes in the League of Nations. Then Stalin added Crimia which was controversial with the people who suddenly found out they were Ukrainian and no longer Russian.

The word is, if Putin can get Crimia back, all else is forgiven.

[Wonky]

Actually, I gave links to news journals and online newspapers, published in or about the Ukraine or Crimea, as well as some blogs that are by Ukraineans or have some focus on the Ukraine.

I merely suggested that if you want a better idea of what's going on, you get a better source than US or even British news, and offered some possibilities. I'd still suggest a collection of sources, though, as there are many sides to this story.

And of course you're right that blogs can be a good source of information in addition to traditional places like BBC, etc. We have to be careful of course about the stuff we find on blogs as often it's very slanted. (True of traditional news too of course, but to a much lesser degree).

My point was (and is) not that so much, but how our conversation here at the RVF continues from the information we gleam. We got bogged down in previous posts above regarding our internal politics with regard to foreign policy. It matters, without a doubt, but our shared views about The Ukraine and the mess there was the title of this thread and in my opinion more to the point.

For instance: We have learned that The Ukraine has never been one big happy region of like people, that the eastern part of the country is, for all practical purposes Russian, and the Russian Black Sea Fleet base has a historical place that is more than just a lease. We are learning the democracy is complicated by ethnic traditions and historical values and that "legitimate" governments of a "sovereign" land can be a muddied concept.

We need to take into account the history of a place that is "new" in context, and that for a very long time was Russian.

So, as the news breaks, we might discuss this kind of stuff here and share our understanding of what is happening. It could effect us directly is this thing goes south and we are mired in another conflict.

[SFLiberal]

Actually, I gave links to news journals and online newspapers, published in or about the Ukraine or Crimea, as well as some blogs that are by Ukraineans or have some focus on the Ukraine.

I merely suggested that if you want a better idea of what's going on, you get a better source than US or even British news, and offered some possibilities. I'd still suggest a collection of sources, though, as there are many sides to this story.

And of course you're right that blogs can be a good source of information in addition to traditional places like BBC, etc. We have to be careful of course about the stuff we find on blogs as often it's very slanted. (True of traditional news too of course, but to a much lesser degree).

My point was (and is) not that so much, but how our conversation here at the RVF continues from the information we gleam. We got bogged down in previous posts above regarding our internal politics with regard to foreign policy. It matters, without a doubt, but our shared views about The Ukraine and the mess there was the title of this thread and in my opinion more to the point.

For instance: We have learned that The Ukraine has never been one big happy region of like people, that the eastern part of the country is, for all practical purposes Russian, and the Russian Black Sea Fleet base has a historical place that is more than just a lease. We are learning the democracy is complicated by ethnic traditions and historical values and that "legitimate" governments of a "sovereign" land can be a muddied concept.

We need to take into account the history of a place that is "new" in context, and that for a very long time was Russian.

So, as the news breaks, we might discuss this kind of stuff here and share our understanding of what is happening. It could effect us directly is this thing goes south and we are mired in another conflict.

I wonder when Russia will ask for Alaska back?

[Wonky]

Actually, I gave links to news journals and online newspapers, published in or about the Ukraine or Crimea, as well as some blogs that are by Ukraineans or have some focus on the Ukraine.

I merely suggested that if you want a better idea of what's going on, you get a better source than US or even British news, and offered some possibilities. I'd still suggest a collection of sources, though, as there are many sides to this story.

And of course you're right that blogs can be a good source of information in addition to traditional places like BBC, etc. We have to be careful of course about the stuff we find on blogs as often it's very slanted. (True of traditional news too of course, but to a much lesser degree).

My point was (and is) not that so much, but how our conversation here at the RVF continues from the information we gleam. We got bogged down in previous posts above regarding our internal politics with regard to foreign policy. It matters, without a doubt, but our shared views about The Ukraine and the mess there was the title of this thread and in my opinion more to the point.

For instance: We have learned that The Ukraine has never been one big happy region of like people, that the eastern part of the country is, for all practical purposes Russian, and the Russian Black Sea Fleet base has a historical place that is more than just a lease. We are learning the democracy is complicated by ethnic traditions and historical values and that "legitimate" governments of a "sovereign" land can be a muddied concept.

We need to take into account the history of a place that is "new" in context, and that for a very long time was Russian.

So, as the news breaks, we might discuss this kind of stuff here and share our understanding of what is happening. It could effect us directly is this thing goes south and we are mired in another conflict.

I wonder when Russia will ask for Alaska back?

You want to screw around and be cute, or get serious about an issued that is explosive and could lead us into a regional mess?

[SFLiberal]

Actually, I gave links to news journals and online newspapers, published in or about the Ukraine or Crimea, as well as some blogs that are by Ukraineans or have some focus on the Ukraine.

I merely suggested that if you want a better idea of what's going on, you get a better source than US or even British news, and offered some possibilities. I'd still suggest a collection of sources, though, as there are many sides to this story.

And of course you're right that blogs can be a good source of information in addition to traditional places like BBC, etc. We have to be careful of course about the stuff we find on blogs as often it's very slanted. (True of traditional news too of course, but to a much lesser degree).

My point was (and is) not that so much, but how our conversation here at the RVF continues from the information we gleam. We got bogged down in previous posts above regarding our internal politics with regard to foreign policy. It matters, without a doubt, but our shared views about The Ukraine and the mess there was the title of this thread and in my opinion more to the point.

For instance: We have learned that The Ukraine has never been one big happy region of like people, that the eastern part of the country is, for all practical purposes Russian, and the Russian Black Sea Fleet base has a historical place that is more than just a lease. We are learning the democracy is complicated by ethnic traditions and historical values and that "legitimate" governments of a "sovereign" land can be a muddied concept.

We need to take into account the history of a place that is "new" in context, and that for a very long time was Russian.

So, as the news breaks, we might discuss this kind of stuff here and share our understanding of what is happening. It could effect us directly is this thing goes south and we are mired in another conflict.

I wonder when Russia will ask for Alaska back?

You want to screw around and be cute, or get serious about an issued that is explosive and could lead us into a regional mess?

But I thought we hit the reset button with Russia? It was supposed to be rainbows and unicorns after that. Obama won a Nobel Peace Prize just for getting elected president. Putin himself just got nominated for one. I guess the world apology tour didn't work. Maybe if Obama actually had a foreign policy strategy things might be different. The Arab spring that Obama supported worked out wonderfully. The Al Qauda flag now flies over Fallujah, a town where over 100 US troops died taking it from the hands of terrorists. Egypt is signing an arms deal with Russia. Iraq signed an arms deal with Iran. China just expanded its air defense zone far into the China Sea and is now claiming some islands occupied by Japan. Syria still has its chemical and biological weapons it was supposed to have given up by Jan. 1. They now say by June. Any bets? Afghanistan President Hamid Karzai angrily criticized Obama and the U.S. government for its conduct of the war in that country in an interview a few days ago. Obama and Kerry treat Israel like they are the terrorists, not the Palestinians who just got caught trying to smuggle in missiles from Syria via Iran. Russia test fires a ballistic missile the other day and is now planning a national air defense drill. Obama? He's headed to Florida for another vacation. They need to rest up before Mouchlle takes the girls on another vacation to China. Maybe if we had a president that actually had a foreign policy instead of someone who is winging it things would be different.

[csrowan]

Actually, I gave links to news journals and online newspapers, published in or about the Ukraine or Crimea, as well as some blogs that are by Ukraineans or have some focus on the Ukraine.

I merely suggested that if you want a better idea of what's going on, you get a better source than US or even British news, and offered some possibilities. I'd still suggest a collection of sources, though, as there are many sides to this story.

And of course you're right that blogs can be a good source of information in addition to traditional places like BBC, etc. We have to be careful of course about the stuff we find on blogs as often it's very slanted. (True of traditional news too of course, but to a much lesser degree).

My point was (and is) not that so much, but how our conversation here at the RVF continues from the information we gleam. We got bogged down in previous posts above regarding our internal politics with regard to foreign policy. It matters, without a doubt, but our shared views about The Ukraine and the mess there was the title of this thread and in my opinion more to the point.

For instance: We have learned that The Ukraine has never been one big happy region of like people, that the eastern part of the country is, for all practical purposes Russian, and the Russian Black Sea Fleet base has a historical place that is more than just a lease. We are learning the democracy is complicated by ethnic traditions and historical values and that "legitimate" governments of a "sovereign" land can be a muddied concept.

We need to take into account the history of a place that is "new" in context, and that for a very long time was Russian.

So, as the news breaks, we might discuss this kind of stuff here and share our understanding of what is happening. It could effect us directly is this thing goes south and we are mired in another conflict.

Quite frankly, I don't really keep up with the news. So when this became big news, and instead of learning what was going on by perusing this forum, I just got glimmers of information that had been whitewashed by various western media sources, peppered with right-wing infomercials about how Obama sucks and Putin is a bear-wrestling demi-god, I decided to track down some sources of information that you guys could use to better inform me.