Time To Revisit The Death Penalty
#21
(05-03-2014, 04:13 PM)Wonky2 Wrote:
(05-03-2014, 04:04 PM)csrowan Wrote: "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

Wow. Heavy man. Like you know, far out.


That was Gandhi.
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#22
Sorry for my bad attitude. I'll try to be nicer and if I can't pull it off, I'll ban myself until my attitude improves. Smiling
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#23
(05-04-2014, 07:09 AM)cletus1 Wrote: Sorry for my bad attitude. I'll try to be nicer and if I can't pull it off, I'll ban myself until my attitude improves. Smiling

We all have days (periods) where our attitudes slide off into some kind of negative place.
Your reflection about the awareness of that attitude is grist for the mill in our ongoing efforts to build a community where exchanging views and sharing "just plain fun" is important to the survival of this place.
By being attentive we can learn from one another the skills necessary to advance the "rules" that make this forum work.

You will never need to ban yourself Clete. And you will never be even close to being banned.

Your insight is valuable and I react to it by subjecting my own attitudes to your awareness.

We can each fill in our our own homilies here to agree, or not, about this view. Reactions will differ.

We've all been here at one time of the other. What we learn from the experience seems to be the important thing about it.
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#24
(05-03-2014, 03:32 PM)cletus1 Wrote:
(05-03-2014, 11:25 AM)tvguy Wrote: They should have "botched it even more. F*** him and the horse he rode in on.

OK torture boy. Last time here you were the rule of law boy. What happened?

You realize that the only reason that there is a controversy is that the 8th amendment to the constitution prohibits cruel and unusual punishment, but you seem to relish the idea. The death penalty carried out by lethal injection was ruled constitutional because it is a relatively painless death. So it was determined to not be cruel and unusual. So much for we're better that those animals huh TV?

Actually you are just a vindictive prick who likes to see people get what's coming to them. Only what's coming to them isn't yours to decide thank fucking god.

I don't actually believe in torture at all in any situation. But this was an accident and if there is something to be done to prevent this in the future then I'm all for it. You should take what I say with a grain of sand. My real meaning was that for this particular murderer I have zero compassion.
But lately something I said has made you get ugly, Like right now.
BTW as far as the insults? I see you as a pissed off man that wants to blame the system for his own failures in life. An addict to one drug or another for how long Cletus? Did you lose your job because of that or not?
You can't or won't admit drugs fucked up part of your life. I've never heard that from you at all.
Instead you continually bitch about the system or the police who usually are just doing their job.
All I hear is complaining about the laws we have and the people who WILLINGLY break those laws and who are FULLY aware of those laws. And all I see are crocodile tears from you for the poor poor persecuted people who get busted.
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#25
BTW I gave reasons why the death penalty can have benefits to society.

Who else did? No one, that's who
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#26
(05-04-2014, 04:49 PM)tvguy Wrote: BTW I gave reasons why the death penalty can have benefits to society.

Who else did? No one, that's who

Quote:Ask the district attorneys all over the country about the advantage they have in dealing with murders when the death is on the table and that possibility is removed.
Ask the families who were able to find their murdered loves ones body and have some closure because a DA made a deal with some murderer for life in prison instead of death.
There's also the fact that if a criminal knows he will get life in prison regardless if he murders one or twenty what's to stop him?

The first two reasons are about using the death penalty as a bargaining chip in the justice system, which doesn't necessarily equate to a benefit to society. Torture might serve just as well, especially for the second.

The third would mostly affect mass murders such as the various school shootings, which often end with the perpetrator's suicide.
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#27
(05-04-2014, 05:18 PM)Prospero Wrote:
(05-04-2014, 04:49 PM)tvguy Wrote: BTW I gave reasons why the death penalty can have benefits to society.

Who else did? No one, that's who

Quote:Ask the district attorneys all over the country about the advantage they have in dealing with murders when the death is on the table and that possibility is removed.
Ask the families who were able to find their murdered loves ones body and have some closure because a DA made a deal with some murderer for life in prison instead of death.
There's also the fact that if a criminal knows he will get life in prison regardless if he murders one or twenty what's to stop him?

The first two reasons are about using the death penalty as a bargaining chip in the justice system, which doesn't necessarily equate to a benefit to society. Torture might serve just as well, especially for the second.

The third would mostly affect mass murders such as the various school shootings, which often end with the perpetrator's suicide.

The families of murder victims are indeed part of our society. They very often are able to find out where their loved ones body is because DA's use the death penalty to bargain.
Retrieving the body is immensely important to these people.
Also it's common for killers to confess to a murder or murders when the family had no idea if the person was actually dead or kidnapped or what.

And anyone who's life is spared by a murderer because a killer fearing the death penalty let them go is also a part of society.

Anyway my own feeling is that no one should be put to death by a jury who has found them guilty belong a reasonable doubt.
IMO the finality of a death sentence requires the jury to find be sure beyond a shadow of doubt.
Also it cost too much money for lawyers to file appeal after appeal for people on death row.
Life imprisonment is cheaper.Rolling Eyes
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#28
(05-04-2014, 04:44 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(05-03-2014, 03:32 PM)cletus1 Wrote:
(05-03-2014, 11:25 AM)tvguy Wrote: They should have "botched it even more. F*** him and the horse he rode in on.

OK torture boy. Last time here you were the rule of law boy. What happened?

You realize that the only reason that there is a controversy is that the 8th amendment to the constitution prohibits cruel and unusual punishment, but you seem to relish the idea. The death penalty carried out by lethal injection was ruled constitutional because it is a relatively painless death. So it was determined to not be cruel and unusual. So much for we're better that those animals huh TV?

Actually you are just a vindictive prick who likes to see people get what's coming to them. Only what's coming to them isn't yours to decide thank fucking god.

I don't actually believe in torture at all in any situation. But this was an accident and if there is something to be done to prevent this in the future then I'm all for it. You should take what I say with a grain of sand. My real meaning was that for this particular murderer I have zero compassion.
But lately something I said has made you get ugly, Like right now.
BTW as far as the insults? I see you as a pissed off man that wants to blame the system for his own failures in life. An addict to one drug or another for how long Cletus? Did you lose your job because of that or not?
You can't or won't admit drugs fucked up part of your life. I've never heard that from you at all.
Instead you continually bitch about the system or the police who usually are just doing their job.
All I hear is complaining about the laws we have and the people who WILLINGLY break those laws and who are FULLY aware of those laws. And all I see are crocodile tears from you for the poor poor persecuted people who get busted.
Anyone that used drugs and guit did so because drugs were causing problems or why would hey quit. My life is not fucked up and I am just another one of millions of people that did drugs and then quit. I keep a photo of Keith Richards on my altar to remind me of the life. Although, I still have some fond memories of the LSD trips I took in the early 1970s.

Now what does that have to do with the death penalty of revenge? Oh that's right you were playing psychologist and telling me why I get pissed off. Maybe I was just drunk and your attitude annoyed me.

Do you know what the mental disorders are in all the other people here that poked you for some of your arrogant comments?
Reply
#29
(05-04-2014, 06:32 PM)cletus1 Wrote:
(05-04-2014, 04:44 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(05-03-2014, 03:32 PM)cletus1 Wrote:
(05-03-2014, 11:25 AM)tvguy Wrote: They should have "botched it even more. F*** him and the horse he rode in on.

OK torture boy. Last time here you were the rule of law boy. What happened?

You realize that the only reason that there is a controversy is that the 8th amendment to the constitution prohibits cruel and unusual punishment, but you seem to relish the idea. The death penalty carried out by lethal injection was ruled constitutional because it is a relatively painless death. So it was determined to not be cruel and unusual. So much for we're better that those animals huh TV?

Actually you are just a vindictive prick who likes to see people get what's coming to them. Only what's coming to them isn't yours to decide thank fucking god.

I don't actually believe in torture at all in any situation. But this was an accident and if there is something to be done to prevent this in the future then I'm all for it. You should take what I say with a grain of sand. My real meaning was that for this particular murderer I have zero compassion.
But lately something I said has made you get ugly, Like right now.
BTW as far as the insults? I see you as a pissed off man that wants to blame the system for his own failures in life. An addict to one drug or another for how long Cletus? Did you lose your job because of that or not?
You can't or won't admit drugs fucked up part of your life. I've never heard that from you at all.
Instead you continually bitch about the system or the police who usually are just doing their job.
All I hear is complaining about the laws we have and the people who WILLINGLY break those laws and who are FULLY aware of those laws. And all I see are crocodile tears from you for the poor poor persecuted people who get busted.
Anyone that used drugs and guit did so because drugs were causing problems or why would hey quit. My life is not fucked up and I am just another one of millions of people that did drugs and then quit. I keep a photo of Keith Richards on my altar to remind me of the life. Although, I still have some fond memories of the LSD trips I took in the early 1970s.


Or they just stopped being fun.
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#30
(05-04-2014, 06:42 PM)Tiamat Wrote:
(05-04-2014, 06:32 PM)cletus1 Wrote:
(05-04-2014, 04:44 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(05-03-2014, 03:32 PM)cletus1 Wrote:
(05-03-2014, 11:25 AM)tvguy Wrote: They should have "botched it even more. F*** him and the horse he rode in on.

OK torture boy. Last time here you were the rule of law boy. What happened?

You realize that the only reason that there is a controversy is that the 8th amendment to the constitution prohibits cruel and unusual punishment, but you seem to relish the idea. The death penalty carried out by lethal injection was ruled constitutional because it is a relatively painless death. So it was determined to not be cruel and unusual. So much for we're better that those animals huh TV?

Actually you are just a vindictive prick who likes to see people get what's coming to them. Only what's coming to them isn't yours to decide thank fucking god.

I don't actually believe in torture at all in any situation. But this was an accident and if there is something to be done to prevent this in the future then I'm all for it. You should take what I say with a grain of sand. My real meaning was that for this particular murderer I have zero compassion.
But lately something I said has made you get ugly, Like right now.
BTW as far as the insults? I see you as a pissed off man that wants to blame the system for his own failures in life. An addict to one drug or another for how long Cletus? Did you lose your job because of that or not?
You can't or won't admit drugs fucked up part of your life. I've never heard that from you at all.
Instead you continually bitch about the system or the police who usually are just doing their job.
All I hear is complaining about the laws we have and the people who WILLINGLY break those laws and who are FULLY aware of those laws. And all I see are crocodile tears from you for the poor poor persecuted people who get busted.
Anyone that used drugs and guit did so because drugs were causing problems or why would hey quit. My life is not fucked up and I am just another one of millions of people that did drugs and then quit. I keep a photo of Keith Richards on my altar to remind me of the life. Although, I still have some fond memories of the LSD trips I took in the early 1970s.


Or they just stopped being fun.

Yeah I agree. I know plenty of people that just grew out of them without major problems.

I wonder if I should put a photo of Steve Jobs on my altar. I sure like this new iPad Air. Big Grin
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#31
I have a picture of Cletus on my mantle
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#32
(05-04-2014, 06:32 PM)cletus1 Wrote:
(05-04-2014, 04:44 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(05-03-2014, 03:32 PM)cletus1 Wrote:
(05-03-2014, 11:25 AM)tvguy Wrote: They should have "botched it even more. F*** him and the horse he rode in on.

OK torture boy. Last time here you were the rule of law boy. What happened?

You realize that the only reason that there is a controversy is that the 8th amendment to the constitution prohibits cruel and unusual punishment, but you seem to relish the idea. The death penalty carried out by lethal injection was ruled constitutional because it is a relatively painless death. So it was determined to not be cruel and unusual. So much for we're better that those animals huh TV?

Actually you are just a vindictive prick who likes to see people get what's coming to them. Only what's coming to them isn't yours to decide thank fucking god.

I don't actually believe in torture at all in any situation. But this was an accident and if there is something to be done to prevent this in the future then I'm all for it. You should take what I say with a grain of sand. My real meaning was that for this particular murderer I have zero compassion.
But lately something I said has made you get ugly, Like right now.
BTW as far as the insults? I see you as a pissed off man that wants to blame the system for his own failures in life. An addict to one drug or another for how long Cletus? Did you lose your job because of that or not?
You can't or won't admit drugs fucked up part of your life. I've never heard that from you at all.
Instead you continually bitch about the system or the police who usually are just doing their job.
All I hear is complaining about the laws we have and the people who WILLINGLY break those laws and who are FULLY aware of those laws. And all I see are crocodile tears from you for the poor poor persecuted people who get busted.
Anyone that used drugs and guit did so because drugs were causing problems or why would hey quit. My life is not fucked up and I am just another one of millions of people that did drugs and then quit. I keep a photo of Keith Richards on my altar to remind me of the life. Although, I still have some fond memories of the LSD trips I took in the early 1970s.

Now what does that have to do with the death penalty of revenge? Oh that's right you were playing psychologist and telling me why I get pissed off. Maybe I was just drunk and your attitude annoyed me.

Do you know what the mental disorders are in all the other people here that poked you for some of your arrogant comments?

I said drugs fucked up part of your life. I didn't say your life was fucked up. And I also said you wouldn't admit it. You just proved that point.

And no one has to have a psychology degree to see that you would rather blame cops and our laws that your own actions.
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#33
(05-04-2014, 07:38 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(05-04-2014, 06:32 PM)cletus1 Wrote:
(05-04-2014, 04:44 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(05-03-2014, 03:32 PM)cletus1 Wrote:
(05-03-2014, 11:25 AM)tvguy Wrote: They should have "botched it even more. F*** him and the horse he rode in on.

OK torture boy. Last time here you were the rule of law boy. What happened?

You realize that the only reason that there is a controversy is that the 8th amendment to the constitution prohibits cruel and unusual punishment, but you seem to relish the idea. The death penalty carried out by lethal injection was ruled constitutional because it is a relatively painless death. So it was determined to not be cruel and unusual. So much for we're better that those animals huh TV?

Actually you are just a vindictive prick who likes to see people get what's coming to them. Only what's coming to them isn't yours to decide thank fucking god.

I don't actually believe in torture at all in any situation. But this was an accident and if there is something to be done to prevent this in the future then I'm all for it. You should take what I say with a grain of sand. My real meaning was that for this particular murderer I have zero compassion.
But lately something I said has made you get ugly, Like right now.
BTW as far as the insults? I see you as a pissed off man that wants to blame the system for his own failures in life. An addict to one drug or another for how long Cletus? Did you lose your job because of that or not?
You can't or won't admit drugs fucked up part of your life. I've never heard that from you at all.
Instead you continually bitch about the system or the police who usually are just doing their job.
All I hear is complaining about the laws we have and the people who WILLINGLY break those laws and who are FULLY aware of those laws. And all I see are crocodile tears from you for the poor poor persecuted people who get busted.
Anyone that used drugs and guit did so because drugs were causing problems or why would hey quit. My life is not fucked up and I am just another one of millions of people that did drugs and then quit. I keep a photo of Keith Richards on my altar to remind me of the life. Although, I still have some fond memories of the LSD trips I took in the early 1970s.

Now what does that have to do with the death penalty of revenge? Oh that's right you were playing psychologist and telling me why I get pissed off. Maybe I was just drunk and your attitude annoyed me.

Do you know what the mental disorders are in all the other people here that poked you for some of your arrogant comments?

I said drugs fucked up part of your life. I didn't say your life was fucked up. And I also said you wouldn't admit it. You just proved that point.

And no one has to have a psychology degree to see that you would rather blame cops and our laws that your own actions.
What am I blaming cops for; my own actions? What do my actions have to do with anything in this thread which is about problems with lethal injection as a means of carrying out the death penalty?

What I see is that you like to make accusations about how fucked up a persons life is or was when they dare disagree with you. Then you said I just proved your point? What point is that? The point that are making this thread about me?

I just finished watching Anthony Bourdain's Parts Unknow show. This episode was about Mexico and drug violence and the increasing call by many in Mexico to stop the war on drugs that is destroying their country. Anthony Bourdain ended the show with this statement, "People can survive drug addiction, but no one can survive death." He meant that in context to all the killings in Mexico. Still, the statement would apply to the death penalty.
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#34
(05-04-2014, 06:55 PM)KateBush Wrote: I have a picture of Cletus on my mantle

Really? Embarrassed
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#35
I said mantle, not alter. :-)
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#36
(05-04-2014, 08:41 PM)KateBush Wrote: I said mantle, not alter. :-)

Still, pretty cool. Wink
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#37
(05-04-2014, 08:41 PM)KateBush Wrote: I said mantle, not alter. :-)

Do you mean mantel, and altar? Anyway, I don't know how you could have a picture of "Cletus," since I have it on good authority that that is the pseudonym of a 97-year-old transgender State-of-Jefferson separatist and charter member of the I.W.H.C. (International Wisdom of Hindsight Collective), which may request you to alter your mantle due to copyright infringement.
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#38
(05-05-2014, 03:24 PM)Prospero Wrote:
(05-04-2014, 08:41 PM)KateBush Wrote: I said mantle, not alter. :-)

Do you mean mantel, and altar? Anyway, I don't know how you could have a picture of "Cletus," since I have it on good authority that that is the pseudonym of a 97-year-old transgender State-of-Jefferson separatist and charter member of the I.W.H.C. (International Wisdom of Hindsight Collective), which may request you to alter your mantle due to copyright infringement.

Chapter 20/20?
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#39
Damn auto-correct :-)
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#40
(05-05-2014, 03:24 PM)Prospero Wrote:
(05-04-2014, 08:41 PM)KateBush Wrote: I said mantle, not alter. :-)

Do you mean mantel, and altar? Anyway, I don't know how you could have a picture of "Cletus," since I have it on good authority that that is the pseudonym of a 97-year-old transgender State-of-Jefferson separatist and charter member of the I.W.H.C. (International Wisdom of Hindsight Collective), which may request you to alter your mantle due to copyright infringement.

We have rules about "outing" members ya know. Wink
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