Higher Wage Debate
#1
Higher wages a surprising success for Seattle restaurant


[b]By Gene Johnson 

The Associated Press
 

SEATTLE — Menu prices are up 21 percent and you don’t have to tip at Ivar’s Salmon House on Seattle’s Lake Union after the restaurant decided to institute the city’s $15-anhour minimum wage two years ahead of schedule.

It is staff, not diners, who feel the real difference, with wages as much as 60 percent higher than before. One waitress is saving for accounting classes and finding it easier to take weekend vacations, while another server is using the
 added pay to cover increased rent.

Seattle’s law, adopted last year after a strong push from labor and grass-roots activists, bumped the city’s minimum wage to $11 an hour beginning April 1, above Washington state’s highest-in-the-nation $9.47. Scheduled increases that depend on business size and benefits will bring the minimum to $15 within four years for large businesses and seven years for smaller ones.

There’s little data yet on how the law is working.

“To the extent that we can look at macro patterns, we’re
 not seeing a problem,” Seattle Mayor Ed Murray said.

As Washington, D.C., and other cities consider following Seattle, San Francisco and Los Angeles in phasing in a $15-anhour minimum wage, Ivar’s approach, adopted in April, offers lessons in how some businesses might adapt. Ivar’s Seafood Restaurants President Bob Donegan decided to raise prices, tell customers that they don’t need to tip and parcel the added revenue among the hourly staff.

[/b]


                                 ****************************************************


Excerpt from today's Mail Tribune. 


This is one example. We are going to be in the heat of a national debate soon about wages for folks in the "service industry" and what the final outcome will be if wages for these folks approach the "living wage" many are demanding. 


This is just one example of the result of increased wages. We can only hope that "the media" will accurately report what happens across the board when (and if) wage increases begin to become more common and widespread. 
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#2
I guess it's still a little early to make predictions, but wouldn't that be a surprise if the sky didn't fall after all. 
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#3
(08-01-2015, 08:29 AM)Cuzz Wrote: I guess it's still a little early to make predictions, but wouldn't that be a surprise if the sky didn't fall after all. 

I don't know. Surprise, maybe. Maybe not. 

The tension here is going to be boil down to a debate about "social responsibilities" and how we support that, and "market forces" that determine profit/loss and how business owners react. 

That's why I (personally) feel it's very important that our news folks report accurately what happens as these wages do increase (if they in fact do). The real proof of the pudding will be how "the market" responds. For instance: Any chance we will start getting our eggs and bacon from a robot? There are no "bag boys" at WINCO. More and more retail outlets are using scanning machines at check-out. Many are shopping online and locals sales people are looking for other work. 

It will be an interesting and feisty debate. 
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#4
I don't see how the servers could like this, when I waited tables way back when I averaged $30 an hour.
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#5
(08-01-2015, 09:26 AM)Valuesize Wrote: I don't see how the servers could like this, when I waited tables way back when I averaged $30 an hour.

30 bucks a hour? Really? $240. a day? $1,200. a week? $4,800 a month. That's $57,600 a year. 

I admit I don't know anyone waiting tables, but that looks like a whole lot more than I would guess most make. And "way back when"? You must have had the best severing job in town! 
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#6
(08-01-2015, 09:56 AM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(08-01-2015, 09:26 AM)Valuesize Wrote: I don't see how the servers could like this, when I waited tables way back when I averaged $30 an hour.

30 bucks a hour? Really? $240. a day? $1,200. a week? $4,800 a month. That's $57,600 a year. 

I admit I don't know anyone waiting tables, but that looks like a whole lot more than I would guess most make. And "way back when"? You must have had the best severing job in town! 

Best if you were willing to work hard.  I never worked more than 7 hours but logged 5-6 miles per day. Present day banquet servers in Portland make $30 or more but you  need to be willing to work 3 times a day with a few hours off between shifts sometimes. 
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#7
(08-01-2015, 11:06 AM)Valuesize Wrote:
(08-01-2015, 09:56 AM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(08-01-2015, 09:26 AM)Valuesize Wrote: I don't see how the servers could like this, when I waited tables way back when I averaged $30 an hour.

30 bucks a hour? Really? $240. a day? $1,200. a week? $4,800 a month. That's $57,600 a year. 

I admit I don't know anyone waiting tables, but that looks like a whole lot more than I would guess most make. And "way back when"? You must have had the best severing job in town! 

Best if you were willing to work hard.  I never worked more than 7 hours but logged 5-6 miles per day. Present day banquet servers in Portland make $30 or more but you  need to be willing to work 3 times a day with a few hours off between shifts sometimes. 
Banquet servers in Portland make $30.00 an hour? Or $30.00 per day? 
We eat out often. I KNOW our serves work hard, and we try to tip well. I'd I'd bet they make more like ten or 12 bucks and hour plus tips (that they share). The head waiter at Jacksonville Inn might make 30 bucks an hour. I wouldn't have a clue because I can't afford to eat there anyway. (nor to I really want to). 

But the real issue raised in the 1st post was the increase in the minimum wage and what effect it might have on all the business that pay that wage. THOSE folks are not making 30 bucks an hour and I'll bet they work hard! 
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#8
This is just one restaurant who voluntarily boosted their own wage to 15 bucks.

 From the article..       There's little data yet on how the law is working.


I think the 11 bucks an hour is probably fair.. Maybe. I have read about book stores who had to close their business because they simply couldn't afford to pay higher min wage.

BTW if VS is right about servers wages then the servers at Ivar’s Salmon House just got their wages cut in half Smiling Because they no longer get tips.
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#9
(08-01-2015, 11:35 AM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(08-01-2015, 11:06 AM)Valuesize Wrote:
(08-01-2015, 09:56 AM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(08-01-2015, 09:26 AM)Valuesize Wrote: I don't see how the servers could like this, when I waited tables way back when I averaged $30 an hour.

30 bucks a hour? Really? $240. a day? $1,200. a week? $4,800 a month. That's $57,600 a year. 

I admit I don't know anyone waiting tables, but that looks like a whole lot more than I would guess most make. And "way back when"? You must have had the best severing job in town! 

Best if you were willing to work hard.  I never worked more than 7 hours but logged 5-6 miles per day. Present day banquet servers in Portland make $30 or more but you  need to be willing to work 3 times a day with a few hours off between shifts sometimes. 
Banquet servers in Portland make $30.00 an hour? Or $30.00 per day? 
We eat out often. I KNOW our serves work hard, and we try to tip well. I'd I'd bet they make more like ten or 12 bucks and hour plus tips (that they share). The head waiter at Jacksonville Inn might make 30 bucks an hour. I wouldn't have a clue because I can't afford to eat there anyway. (nor to I really want to). 

But the real issue raised in the 1st post was the increase in the minimum wage and what effect it might have on all the business that pay that wage. THOSE folks are not making 30 bucks an hour and I'll bet they work hard! 

Perhaps VS is talking $30/hour with wage and tips combined. 
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#10
(08-01-2015, 11:56 AM)Scrapper Wrote:
(08-01-2015, 11:35 AM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(08-01-2015, 11:06 AM)Valuesize Wrote:
(08-01-2015, 09:56 AM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(08-01-2015, 09:26 AM)Valuesize Wrote: I don't see how the servers could like this, when I waited tables way back when I averaged $30 an hour.

30 bucks a hour? Really? $240. a day? $1,200. a week? $4,800 a month. That's $57,600 a year. 

I admit I don't know anyone waiting tables, but that looks like a whole lot more than I would guess most make. And "way back when"? You must have had the best severing job in town! 

Best if you were willing to work hard.  I never worked more than 7 hours but logged 5-6 miles per day. Present day banquet servers in Portland make $30 or more but you  need to be willing to work 3 times a day with a few hours off between shifts sometimes. 
Banquet servers in Portland make $30.00 an hour? Or $30.00 per day? 
We eat out often. I KNOW our serves work hard, and we try to tip well. I'd I'd bet they make more like ten or 12 bucks and hour plus tips (that they share). The head waiter at Jacksonville Inn might make 30 bucks an hour. I wouldn't have a clue because I can't afford to eat there anyway. (nor to I really want to). 

But the real issue raised in the 1st post was the increase in the minimum wage and what effect it might have on all the business that pay that wage. THOSE folks are not making 30 bucks an hour and I'll bet they work hard! 

Perhaps VS is talking $30/hour with wage and tips combined. 

Maybe. But in this day and age from all I read, 30 bucks and hour any way you make it as a server is really good money. But, as I said above, I don't know any servers and so maybe that's the going rate. 
If so, what's all the chatter about a 15 dollar min. wage? Not EVERYBODY works at Burger King. 
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#11
(08-01-2015, 11:49 AM)tvguy Wrote: This is just one restaurant who voluntarily boosted their own wage to 15 bucks.

 From the article..       There's little data yet on how the law is working.


I think the 11 bucks an hour is probably fair.. Maybe. I have read about book stores who had to close their business because they simply couldn't afford to pay higher min wage.

BTW if VS is right about servers wages then the servers at Ivar’s Salmon House just got their wages cut in half Smiling Because they no longer get tips.

Yep. Just one restaurant. Yep...saw the line saying there is little data on how law is working. I don't have a clue if 11 bucks an hour is fair for that kind of work....I've never done that kind of work and don't know anyone who does. But at 11 bucks and hour I'd guess it's hard to feed and house of more than one person. Just a guess. 
Lots of book stores have closed. Maybe because of high minimum wage or maybe because Barnes and Nobler or Amazon put them out of business. 
Yes if VS is right...
But if he's not...

I posted this only because I thought it's part on what is now an ongoing conversation and debate that is going to be a huge issue sooner than later. 

I don't have a clue about what happened at this restaurant means. Maybe nothing. But it the media continues to report accurate stories about the wages of working people, and if our society engages in what "a living wage" means and who is entitled to it, we will be in the middle of an firestorm of controversy. 

So, I defend nothing about this story. Nor do I criticize it. It's only important for the information it adds to what is going to be an ongoing story in our country. 
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#12
Going by Wonky's figures:
"30 bucks a hour? Really? $240. a day? $1,200. a week? $4,800 a month. That's $57,600 a year."
Honestly, I don't know how anyone can have a family, pay housing expenses, feed a family, clothe a family, keep a family healthy (insurance, etc.), etc., etc. on $30/hr.  $57,600/year doesn't leave much after taxes.
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#13
(08-01-2015, 12:26 PM)Scrapper Wrote: Going by Wonky's figures:
"30 bucks a hour? Really? $240. a day? $1,200. a week? $4,800 a month. That's $57,600 a year."
Honestly, I don't know how anyone can have a family, pay housing expenses, feed a family, clothe a family, keep a family healthy (insurance, etc.), etc., etc. on $30/hr.  $57,600/year doesn't leave much after taxes.
Wow.
Then imagine the pain and suffering of folks who are making half that trying to raise a family. Or, maybe people who make half that should not start a family? Or, maybe people who once made more money and then got "downsized" to a much lower wage should give up the family? Sell the car? Give up cell phone service? Stop eating meat? 

Whatever. 

I don't know, and that's the simple truth. I worked for 35 years and always made a "living wage". But I guess that was then and this is now. 
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#14
(08-01-2015, 12:26 PM)Scrapper Wrote: Going by Wonky's figures:
"30 bucks a hour? Really? $240. a day? $1,200. a week? $4,800 a month. That's $57,600 a year."
Honestly, I don't know how anyone can have a family, pay housing expenses, feed a family, clothe a family, keep a family healthy (insurance, etc.), etc., etc. on $30/hr.  $57,600/year doesn't leave much after taxes.

$57,600 a year would be quite a comfortable life, imo.
It all depends on what you feel you "need" to have.
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#15
(08-01-2015, 12:22 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(08-01-2015, 11:49 AM)tvguy Wrote: This is just one restaurant who voluntarily boosted their own wage to 15 bucks.

 From the article..       There's little data yet on how the law is working.


I think the 11 bucks an hour is probably fair.. Maybe. I have read about book stores who had to close their business because they simply couldn't afford to pay higher min wage.

BTW if VS is right about servers wages then the servers at Ivar’s Salmon House just got their wages cut in half Smiling Because they no longer get tips.

Yep. Just one restaurant. Yep...saw the line saying there is little data on how law is working. I don't have a clue if 11 bucks an hour is fair for that kind of work....I've never done that kind of work and don't know anyone who does. But at 11 bucks and hour I'd guess it's hard to feed and house of more than one person. Just a guess. 
Lots of book stores have closed. Maybe because of high minimum wage or maybe because Barnes and Nobler or Amazon put them out of business. 
Yes if VS is right...
But if he's not...

I posted this only because I thought it's part on what is now an ongoing conversation and debate that is going to be a huge issue sooner than later. 

I don't have a clue about what happened at this restaurant means. Maybe nothing. But it the media continues to report accurate stories about the wages of working people, and if our society engages in what "a living wage" means and who is entitled to it, we will be in the middle of an firestorm of controversy. 

So, I defend nothing about this story. Nor do I criticize it. It's only important for the information it adds to what is going to be an ongoing story in our country. 

Lots of book stores have closed. Maybe because of high minimum wage or maybe because Barnes and Nobler or Amazon put them out of business. 


 

I'm was about a book store that went out of business SPECIFICALLY (see HERE) because a higher minimum wage was forced on them.
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#16
(08-01-2015, 12:08 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(08-01-2015, 11:56 AM)Scrapper Wrote:
(08-01-2015, 11:35 AM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(08-01-2015, 11:06 AM)Valuesize Wrote:
(08-01-2015, 09:56 AM)Wonky3 Wrote: 30 bucks a hour? Really? $240. a day? $1,200. a week? $4,800 a month. That's $57,600 a year. 

I admit I don't know anyone waiting tables, but that looks like a whole lot more than I would guess most make. And "way back when"? You must have had the best severing job in town! 

Best if you were willing to work hard.  I never worked more than 7 hours but logged 5-6 miles per day. Present day banquet servers in Portland make $30 or more but you  need to be willing to work 3 times a day with a few hours off between shifts sometimes. 
Banquet servers in Portland make $30.00 an hour? Or $30.00 per day? 
We eat out often. I KNOW our serves work hard, and we try to tip well. I'd I'd bet they make more like ten or 12 bucks and hour plus tips (that they share). The head waiter at Jacksonville Inn might make 30 bucks an hour. I wouldn't have a clue because I can't afford to eat there anyway. (nor to I really want to). 

But the real issue raised in the 1st post was the increase in the minimum wage and what effect it might have on all the business that pay that wage. THOSE folks are not making 30 bucks an hour and I'll bet they work hard! 

Perhaps VS is talking $30/hour with wage and tips combined. 

Maybe. But in this day and age from all I read, 30 bucks and hour any way you make it as a server is really good money. But, as I said above, I don't know any servers and so maybe that's the going rate. 
If so, what's all the chatter about a 15 dollar min. wage? Not EVERYBODY works at Burger King. 

Not maybe.. there's no was in hell VS wasn't including tip money. Wink
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#17
(08-01-2015, 02:57 PM)HolyMaryMotherOfGod Wrote:
(08-01-2015, 12:26 PM)Scrapper Wrote: Going by Wonky's figures:
"30 bucks a hour? Really? $240. a day? $1,200. a week? $4,800 a month. That's $57,600 a year."
Honestly, I don't know how anyone can have a family, pay housing expenses, feed a family, clothe a family, keep a family healthy (insurance, etc.), etc., etc. on $30/hr.  $57,600/year doesn't leave much after taxes.

$57,600 a year would be quite a comfortable life, imo.
It all depends on what you feel you "need" to have.

Yeah no kidding. Some us never buy new cars that have to have full coverage insurance. Some of us never call a plumber or any other kind of repair people. Some of us build our own homes and shops. And I'll admit some of us don't care if Better Homes & Garden never comes by with photographers Laughing

It hasn't been all that long since I retired and I made more money than
  most working guys in construction.. Journeyman electrician. UNION $29.50 an hour.
When I got 40 hours week that was plenty.
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#18
Yes. I think the wage was less than $6. paid by the business, the rest was tips. What is the minimum now? Almost $10? I'll bet the banquet people are closer to $40 an hour. 
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#19
(08-01-2015, 03:44 PM)Valuesize Wrote: Yes. I think the wage was less than $6. paid by the business, the rest was tips. What is the minimum now? Almost $10? I'll bet the banquet people are closer to $40 an hour. 

Right so if the servers in this particular restaurant made anywhere near the 30 bucks you made.. even $20. They just got their wages cut because they no longer get tips.
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#20
(08-01-2015, 03:50 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(08-01-2015, 03:44 PM)Valuesize Wrote: Yes. I think the wage was less than $6. paid by the business, the rest was tips. What is the minimum now? Almost $10? I'll bet the banquet people are closer to $40 an hour. 

Right so if the servers in this particular restaurant made anywhere near the 30 bucks you made.. even $20. They just got their wages cut because they no longer get tips.
I don't know about this stuff. I did chat with a server at Vinny's once and he told me they share the tips with the kitchen staff. Also had a like conversation with a gal at The Outback who said the same thing. So, to make 20 or 30 bucks a day, they would have to move LOTS of people during a shift. 
But, lots I don't know about this stuff. 
I DO hear that there are lots of people working for what seems to me to be low wages. 
Time will tell I guess. 
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