Does EVERYONE need to go to college?

[tvguy]

In skilled labor fields there isn't any other way to teach the skills OTHER than on the job. All you can do is teach the basics. The rest HAS to come from experience.

I agree with you, TV.  And it is truth and a truth they can't deny. BUT it doesn't keep employers from still asking their employees to get additional formal education and that is the growing trend.

Yeah sure. But is that because employers can afford to be choosy? in THIS economy? I mean the type of employers YOU deal with.If I was an employer I would also try and get people with the best education or who have exceeded a high school education.
But right now it looks to me like employers looking for skilled labor would be happy to get anyone who was experienced. Even if they didn't read Tolstoy at lunch like Wonky.

Well, if you consider only trades like construction or plumbers. But there are lots of other blue collar jobs out there than that.  Those women at RCC who were in corrections...they weren't on a career ladder. They were just jail guards. They weren't looking at anything else. They wanted to raise their kids and get paid for their job.  There are different kinds of jobs. Wonky posted an article specifically citing law enforcement and fire technology and those are good examples of employers who are requiring experience, training and additionally education. There are people in social work or similar fields who have miles of experience and now their employers are requiring them to upgrade their educations.  The education doesn't increase their skill base usually, if they have enough experience but the system requires it. Computer technology is like that.  I know people who are quite expert in this field but don't have college degrees. Some employers are ok with that...Taupe Hat was that way....but more and more they want both. When  you say "afford", a lot of programs rely on certain kinds of funding and that's often where the requirement comes in.

I hear ya and yes I agree. But I was specifically talking about skilled labor I didn't say anything about blue collar jobs and The OP is about a shortage of skilled labor.

 

[Tiamat]

In skilled labor fields there isn't any other way to teach the skills OTHER than on the job. All you can do is teach the basics. The rest HAS to come from experience.

I agree with you, TV.  And it is truth and a truth they can't deny. BUT it doesn't keep employers from still asking their employees to get additional formal education and that is the growing trend.

Yeah sure. But is that because employers can afford to be choosy? in THIS economy? I mean the type of employers YOU deal with.If I was an employer I would also try and get people with the best education or who have exceeded a high school education.
But right now it looks to me like employers looking for skilled labor would be happy to get anyone who was experienced. Even if they didn't read Tolstoy at lunch like Wonky.

Well, if you consider only trades like construction or plumbers. But there are lots of other blue collar jobs out there than that.  Those women at RCC who were in corrections...they weren't on a career ladder. They were just jail guards. They weren't looking at anything else. They wanted to raise their kids and get paid for their job.  There are different kinds of jobs. Wonky posted an article specifically citing law enforcement and fire technology and those are good examples of employers who are requiring experience, training and additionally education. There are people in social work or similar fields who have miles of experience and now their employers are requiring them to upgrade their educations.  The education doesn't increase their skill base usually, if they have enough experience but the system requires it. Computer technology is like that.  I know people who are quite expert in this field but don't have college degrees. Some employers are ok with that...Taupe Hat was that way....but more and more they want both. When  you say "afford", a lot of programs rely on certain kinds of funding and that's often where the requirement comes in.

I hear ya and yes I agree. But I was specifically talking about skilled labor I didn't say anything about blue collar jobs and The OP is about a shortage of skilled labor.

 

Not all blue collar jobs are skilled labor, but skilled labor is usually considered blue collar.  Firefighters and law enforcement are considered blue collar.  Or used to be.

[tvguy]

I agree with you, TV.  And it is truth and a truth they can't deny. BUT it doesn't keep employers from still asking their employees to get additional formal education and that is the growing trend.

Yeah sure. But is that because employers can afford to be choosy? in THIS economy? I mean the type of employers YOU deal with.If I was an employer I would also try and get people with the best education or who have exceeded a high school education.
But right now it looks to me like employers looking for skilled labor would be happy to get anyone who was experienced. Even if they didn't read Tolstoy at lunch like Wonky.

Well, if you consider only trades like construction or plumbers. But there are lots of other blue collar jobs out there than that.  Those women at RCC who were in corrections...they weren't on a career ladder. They were just jail guards. They weren't looking at anything else. They wanted to raise their kids and get paid for their job.  There are different kinds of jobs. Wonky posted an article specifically citing law enforcement and fire technology and those are good examples of employers who are requiring experience, training and additionally education. There are people in social work or similar fields who have miles of experience and now their employers are requiring them to upgrade their educations.  The education doesn't increase their skill base usually, if they have enough experience but the system requires it. Computer technology is like that.  I know people who are quite expert in this field but don't have college degrees. Some employers are ok with that...Taupe Hat was that way....but more and more they want both. When  you say "afford", a lot of programs rely on certain kinds of funding and that's often where the requirement comes in.

I hear ya and yes I agree. But I was specifically talking about skilled labor I didn't say anything about blue collar jobs and The OP is about a shortage of skilled labor.

 

Not all blue collar jobs are skilled labor, but skilled labor is usually considered blue collar.  Firefighters and law enforcement are considered blue collar.  Or used to be.

Not all blue collar jobs are skilled labor.

right I get it, did I say otherwise?

Regardless. Wonky, the article and ME are talking about skilled labor skilled trades.. working with your hands. People who build things  one way or another.

 

[Carl_Kolchak]

Maybe because I grew up in a family of teachers, and then married a nice Jewish girl from Omaha, the idea of intentionally 
staying dumb is just a completely foreign idea We made sure our kids studied, and it paid off. 
  I guess I don't understand the concept of not obtaining knowledge.

Simple. Studies have shown many in the conservative are poorly informed and educated. Excellent material for following the agenda and Fox News. Mustn't disturb the status quo.

[Tiamat]

Yeah sure. But is that because employers can afford to be choosy? in THIS economy? I mean the type of employers YOU deal with.If I was an employer I would also try and get people with the best education or who have exceeded a high school education.
But right now it looks to me like employers looking for skilled labor would be happy to get anyone who was experienced. Even if they didn't read Tolstoy at lunch like Wonky.

Well, if you consider only trades like construction or plumbers. But there are lots of other blue collar jobs out there than that.  Those women at RCC who were in corrections...they weren't on a career ladder. They were just jail guards. They weren't looking at anything else. They wanted to raise their kids and get paid for their job.  There are different kinds of jobs. Wonky posted an article specifically citing law enforcement and fire technology and those are good examples of employers who are requiring experience, training and additionally education. There are people in social work or similar fields who have miles of experience and now their employers are requiring them to upgrade their educations.  The education doesn't increase their skill base usually, if they have enough experience but the system requires it. Computer technology is like that.  I know people who are quite expert in this field but don't have college degrees. Some employers are ok with that...Taupe Hat was that way....but more and more they want both. When  you say "afford", a lot of programs rely on certain kinds of funding and that's often where the requirement comes in.

I hear ya and yes I agree. But I was specifically talking about skilled labor I didn't say anything about blue collar jobs and The OP is about a shortage of skilled labor.

 

Not all blue collar jobs are skilled labor, but skilled labor is usually considered blue collar.  Firefighters and law enforcement are considered blue collar.  Or used to be.

Not all blue collar jobs are skilled labor.

right I get it, did I say otherwise?

Regardless. Wonky, the article and ME are talking about skilled labor skilled trades.. working with your hands. People who build things  one way or another.

 

So, despite the article leading with LE and Fire fighters, that's not what he's talking about.  Well, He doesn't get points for clarity.

[bbqboy]

Who is "he"? Damian Mann or TV or Wonky? 

[Wonky3]

Well, if you consider only trades like construction or plumbers. But there are lots of other blue collar jobs out there than that.  Those women at RCC who were in corrections...they weren't on a career ladder. They were just jail guards. They weren't looking at anything else. They wanted to raise their kids and get paid for their job.  There are different kinds of jobs. Wonky posted an article specifically citing law enforcement and fire technology and those are good examples of employers who are requiring experience, training and additionally education. There are people in social work or similar fields who have miles of experience and now their employers are requiring them to upgrade their educations.  The education doesn't increase their skill base usually, if they have enough experience but the system requires it. Computer technology is like that.  I know people who are quite expert in this field but don't have college degrees. Some employers are ok with that...Taupe Hat was that way....but more and more they want both. When  you say "afford", a lot of programs rely on certain kinds of funding and that's often where the requirement comes in.

I hear ya and yes I agree. But I was specifically talking about skilled labor I didn't say anything about blue collar jobs and The OP is about a shortage of skilled labor.

 

Not all blue collar jobs are skilled labor, but skilled labor is usually considered blue collar.  Firefighters and law enforcement are considered blue collar.  Or used to be.

Not all blue collar jobs are skilled labor.

right I get it, did I say otherwise?

Regardless. Wonky, the article and ME are talking about skilled labor skilled trades.. working with your hands. People who build things  one way or another.

 

So, despite the article leading with LE and Fire fighters, that's not what he's talking about.  Well, He doesn't get points for clarity.

Tia, was going let this one pass but you kept returning to it. This was not a story about the police and fire departments except in the most oblique way. It was about the difficulty in building the new facilities in which they will be housed. Specially, the difficulty in finding subcontractors (who have problems finding workers) who can complete the work. 

And so, we were exchanging thoughts about the need for folks who work with their hands and may not need advanced education. You steered this to an entirely different conversation, that while worthwhile and interesting was off subject and yet you insisted that I was not clear. 

[bbqboy]

Catfight.!

[Wonky3]

Catfight.!

Are you the same guy who was privileged to marry a Jewish girl, raise well educated children, and express the thought that education and knowledge are all important? 

This above remark might have been posted by a not very bright 5th grader. 

[bbqboy]

Did being married so long destroy any humor left in your body? What a shrew you are. Oh, and by the way , fuck you.
I'll say what I want when I want and to
who I want. Jesus. No wonder you sit here all day pontificating. You are the one who titled this thread. Doesn't say anything about construction workers to the exclusion of everything else.

[Wonky3]

Did being married so long destroy any humor left in your body? What a shrew you are. Oh, and by the way , fuck you.
I'll say what I want when I want and to
who I want. Jesus. No wonder you sit here all day pontificating. You are the one who titled this thread. Doesn't say anything about construction workers to the exclusion of everything else.

Oh yea! That thirst for knowledge and life long education is proving valuable. 

[chuck white]

Did being married so long destroy any humor left in your body? What a shrew you are. Oh, and by the way , fuck you.
I'll say what I want when I want and to
who I want. Jesus. No wonder you sit here all day pontificating. You are the one who titled this thread. Doesn't say anything about construction workers to the exclusion of everything else.

Oh yea! That thirst for knowledge and life long education is proving valuable. 

Give him a break, we all can't have Aristotle as a teacher.

[Tiamat]

I hear ya and yes I agree. But I was specifically talking about skilled labor I didn't say anything about blue collar jobs and The OP is about a shortage of skilled labor.

 

Not all blue collar jobs are skilled labor, but skilled labor is usually considered blue collar.  Firefighters and law enforcement are considered blue collar.  Or used to be.

Not all blue collar jobs are skilled labor.

right I get it, did I say otherwise?

Regardless. Wonky, the article and ME are talking about skilled labor skilled trades.. working with your hands. People who build things  one way or another.

 

So, despite the article leading with LE and Fire fighters, that's not what he's talking about.  Well, He doesn't get points for clarity.

Tia, was going let this one pass but you kept returning to it. This was not a story about the police and fire departments except in the most oblique way. It was about the difficulty in building the new facilities in which they will be housed. Specially, the difficulty in finding subcontractors (who have problems finding workers) who can complete the work. 

And so, we were exchanging thoughts about the need for folks who work with their hands and may not need advanced education. You steered this to an entirely different conversation, that while worthwhile and interesting was off subject and yet you insisted that I was not clear. 

Well, that's cool. dont get all hot under the collar. You consistently say I'm unclear.  But it doesn't seem to deter me. The same thing happened in the hashtag thread. Two different thought lines going on.

[tvguy]

Did being married so long destroy any humor left in your body? What a shrew you are. Oh, and by the way , fuck you.
I'll say what I want when I want and to
who I want. Jesus. No wonder you sit here all day pontificating. You are the one who titled this thread. Doesn't say anything about construction workers to the exclusion of everything else.

Oh I see you suddenly are making Jokes and we are supposed to know that when it's coming from the biggest bitchy  whiner on the forum?

[tvguy]

Not all blue collar jobs are skilled labor, but skilled labor is usually considered blue collar.  Firefighters and law enforcement are considered blue collar.  Or used to be.

Not all blue collar jobs are skilled labor.

right I get it, did I say otherwise?

Regardless. Wonky, the article and ME are talking about skilled labor skilled trades.. working with your hands. People who build things  one way or another.

 

So, despite the article leading with LE and Fire fighters, that's not what he's talking about.  Well, He doesn't get points for clarity.

Tia, was going let this one pass but you kept returning to it. This was not a story about the police and fire departments except in the most oblique way. It was about the difficulty in building the new facilities in which they will be housed. Specially, the difficulty in finding subcontractors (who have problems finding workers) who can complete the work. 

And so, we were exchanging thoughts about the need for folks who work with their hands and may not need advanced education. You steered this to an entirely different conversation, that while worthwhile and interesting was off subject and yet you insisted that I was not clear. 

Well, that's cool. dont get all hot under the collar. You consistently say I'm unclear.  But it doesn't seem to deter me. The same thing happened in the hashtag thread. Two different thought lines going on.

I didn't see any indication he was "hot under the collar". He expressed my sentiment EXACTLY because you seemed stuck on OTHER kinds of blue collar jobs no matter what when it was ALL about a skilled labor shortage.

[Tiamat]

Not all blue collar jobs are skilled labor.

right I get it, did I say otherwise?

Regardless. Wonky, the article and ME are talking about skilled labor skilled trades.. working with your hands. People who build things  one way or another.

 

So, despite the article leading with LE and Fire fighters, that's not what he's talking about.  Well, He doesn't get points for clarity.

Tia, was going let this one pass but you kept returning to it. This was not a story about the police and fire departments except in the most oblique way. It was about the difficulty in building the new facilities in which they will be housed. Specially, the difficulty in finding subcontractors (who have problems finding workers) who can complete the work. 

And so, we were exchanging thoughts about the need for folks who work with their hands and may not need advanced education. You steered this to an entirely different conversation, that while worthwhile and interesting was off subject and yet you insisted that I was not clear. 

Well, that's cool. dont get all hot under the collar. You consistently say I'm unclear.  But it doesn't seem to deter me. The same thing happened in the hashtag thread. Two different thought lines going on.

I didn't see any indication he was "hot under the collar". He expressed my sentiment EXACTLY because you seemed stuck on OTHER kinds of blue collar jobs no matter what when it was ALL about a skilled labor shortage.

I see you two were on the same topic. You are right, I was stuck on another aspect.   But, yeah, there's a tad bit of snippiness in that post as well.  Whatever. I think this thread is played out anyway.

[tvguy]

So, despite the article leading with LE and Fire fighters, that's not what he's talking about.  Well, He doesn't get points for clarity.

Tia, was going let this one pass but you kept returning to it. This was not a story about the police and fire departments except in the most oblique way. It was about the difficulty in building the new facilities in which they will be housed. Specially, the difficulty in finding subcontractors (who have problems finding workers) who can complete the work. 

And so, we were exchanging thoughts about the need for folks who work with their hands and may not need advanced education. You steered this to an entirely different conversation, that while worthwhile and interesting was off subject and yet you insisted that I was not clear. 

Well, that's cool. dont get all hot under the collar. You consistently say I'm unclear.  But it doesn't seem to deter me. The same thing happened in the hashtag thread. Two different thought lines going on.

I didn't see any indication he was "hot under the collar". He expressed my sentiment EXACTLY because you seemed stuck on OTHER kinds of blue collar jobs no matter what when it was ALL about a skilled labor shortage.

I see you two were on the same topic. You are right, I was stuck on another aspect.   But, yeah, there's a tad bit of snippiness in that post as well.  Whatever. I think this thread is played out anyway.

OK   How about this.. Whomever designed this slow ass forum or whomever it is who can't fix it for good... needs to or should have gone to college

[Cuzz]

Tia, was going let this one pass but you kept returning to it. This was not a story about the police and fire departments except in the most oblique way. It was about the difficulty in building the new facilities in which they will be housed. Specially, the difficulty in finding subcontractors (who have problems finding workers) who can complete the work. 

And so, we were exchanging thoughts about the need for folks who work with their hands and may not need advanced education. You steered this to an entirely different conversation, that while worthwhile and interesting was off subject and yet you insisted that I was not clear. 

Well, that's cool. dont get all hot under the collar. You consistently say I'm unclear.  But it doesn't seem to deter me. The same thing happened in the hashtag thread. Two different thought lines going on.

I didn't see any indication he was "hot under the collar". He expressed my sentiment EXACTLY because you seemed stuck on OTHER kinds of blue collar jobs no matter what when it was ALL about a skilled labor shortage.

I see you two were on the same topic. You are right, I was stuck on another aspect.   But, yeah, there's a tad bit of snippiness in that post as well.  Whatever. I think this thread is played out anyway.

OK   How about this.. Whomever designed this slow ass forum or whomever it is who can't fix it for good... needs to or should have gone to college

The internet gravity must be different at your house, it works fine for me. I don't even have a "movie streaming" speed connection. 

[tvguy]

Well, that's cool. dont get all hot under the collar. You consistently say I'm unclear.  But it doesn't seem to deter me. The same thing happened in the hashtag thread. Two different thought lines going on.

I didn't see any indication he was "hot under the collar". He expressed my sentiment EXACTLY because you seemed stuck on OTHER kinds of blue collar jobs no matter what when it was ALL about a skilled labor shortage.

I see you two were on the same topic. You are right, I was stuck on another aspect.   But, yeah, there's a tad bit of snippiness in that post as well.  Whatever. I think this thread is played out anyway.

OK   How about this.. Whomever designed this slow ass forum or whomever it is who can't fix it for good... needs to or should have gone to college

The internet gravity must be different at your house, it works fine for me. I don't even have a "movie streaming" speed connection. 

Maybe but usually when it's S  L  O  W  for me it is slow for several others on the forum also. Also I go from Craigslist to ebay to email to facebook or whatever an NONE of those sites are slow. I'm on Charter high speed cable

[Cuzz]

I didn't see any indication he was "hot under the collar". He expressed my sentiment EXACTLY because you seemed stuck on OTHER kinds of blue collar jobs no matter what when it was ALL about a skilled labor shortage.

I see you two were on the same topic. You are right, I was stuck on another aspect.   But, yeah, there's a tad bit of snippiness in that post as well.  Whatever. I think this thread is played out anyway.

OK   How about this.. Whomever designed this slow ass forum or whomever it is who can't fix it for good... needs to or should have gone to college

The internet gravity must be different at your house, it works fine for me. I don't even have a "movie streaming" speed connection. 

Maybe but usually when it's S  L  O  W  for me it is slow for several others on the forum also. Also I go from Craigslist to ebay to email to facebook or whatever an NONE of those sites are slow. I'm on Charter high speed cable

Curious ain't it?