Everything I don't know about guns

[Hugo]

Oh bull sh*t!  The shooter was a mental case.  He needed mental health help... and didn't get it.

Good point.

But...

Germany, England, Japan, etc., have their share of nut jobs too, but we don't see the rash of mass killings there as we do here in the good 'old U.S.A.

Something else gong on here. I mean other than our rejection of all things Christian. 

A really good OP Wonk. You are right in that many countries have people with mental problems, and they don't have anywhere near the amount of mass killings the US has. The problem in America is simple, it's easy access to guns, but people don't want to face it. 

Any talk about doing something is seen as an assault on gun rights. Intelligent people know you actually can do something about all the gun violence while still protecting gun rights. Unfortunately, they are drowned out by the more rabid NRA gun nuts like Hugo, OL and TVguy. 

Answer me this.  40 years ago kids TOOK guns to school during hunting season.  There were no school shootings. 

So it must be something other than availability of guns, correct?

Hunting season? You're not kidding are you?

Kidding???  What do you mean?  Deer season opens tomorrow.  40 years ago every pick up in the High School parking lot had a rifle in the window this time of year.  I know...  I was one of them.  Even younger, in grade school I used to take my BB gun so I could target practice on my way home. (2 miles from school, rode my bike)  I kept it in a cubby RIGHT NEXT TO MY DESK.  What part of this is incredulous to you?

[GPnative]

Oh bull sh*t!  The shooter was a mental case.  He needed mental health help... and didn't get it.

Good point.

But...

Germany, England, Japan, etc., have their share of nut jobs too, but we don't see the rash of mass killings there as we do here in the good 'old U.S.A.

Something else gong on here. I mean other than our rejection of all things Christian. 

A really good OP Wonk. You are right in that many countries have people with mental problems, and they don't have anywhere near the amount of mass killings the US has. The problem in America is simple, it's easy access to guns, but people don't want to face it. 

Any talk about doing something is seen as an assault on gun rights. Intelligent people know you actually can do something about all the gun violence while still protecting gun rights. Unfortunately, they are drowned out by the more rabid NRA gun nuts like Hugo, OL and TVguy. 

Answer me this.  40 years ago kids TOOK guns to school during hunting season.  There were no school shootings. 

So it must be something other than availability of guns, correct?

Hunting season? You're not kidding are you?

Hell, even when I was in high school and that being a lot less than 40 years ago, students and teachers both regularly had guns on display in their vehicle gun racks during school hours, mainly because just a few miles up the road from our high school was some prime deer hunting ground.
It was never an issue, no one even gave it a second thought. I think that practice stopped via school policies post Krazy Kip Kinkle.

[Hugo]

Good point.

But...

Germany, England, Japan, etc., have their share of nut jobs too, but we don't see the rash of mass killings there as we do here in the good 'old U.S.A.

Something else gong on here. I mean other than our rejection of all things Christian. 

A really good OP Wonk. You are right in that many countries have people with mental problems, and they don't have anywhere near the amount of mass killings the US has. The problem in America is simple, it's easy access to guns, but people don't want to face it. 

Any talk about doing something is seen as an assault on gun rights. Intelligent people know you actually can do something about all the gun violence while still protecting gun rights. Unfortunately, they are drowned out by the more rabid NRA gun nuts like Hugo, OL and TVguy. 

Answer me this.  40 years ago kids TOOK guns to school during hunting season.  There were no school shootings. 

So it must be something other than availability of guns, correct?

Hunting season? You're not kidding are you?

Hell, even when I was in high school and that being a lot less than 40 years ago, students and teachers both regularly had guns on display in their vehicle gun racks during school hours, mainly because just a few miles up the road from our high school was some prime deer hunting ground.
It was never an issue, no one even gave it a second thought. I think that practice stopped via school policies post Krazy Kip Kinkle.

And again, to the point, doesn't that mean that availability and access to guns is NOT the problem?

[GPnative]

A really good OP Wonk. You are right in that many countries have people with mental problems, and they don't have anywhere near the amount of mass killings the US has. The problem in America is simple, it's easy access to guns, but people don't want to face it. 

Any talk about doing something is seen as an assault on gun rights. Intelligent people know you actually can do something about all the gun violence while still protecting gun rights. Unfortunately, they are drowned out by the more rabid NRA gun nuts like Hugo, OL and TVguy. 

Answer me this.  40 years ago kids TOOK guns to school during hunting season.  There were no school shootings. 

So it must be something other than availability of guns, correct?

Hunting season? You're not kidding are you?

Hell, even when I was in high school and that being a lot less than 40 years ago, students and teachers both regularly had guns on display in their vehicle gun racks during school hours, mainly because just a few miles up the road from our high school was some prime deer hunting ground.
It was never an issue, no one even gave it a second thought. I think that practice stopped via school policies post Krazy Kip Kinkle.

And again, to the point, doesn't that mean that availability and access to guns is NOT the problem?

Yes.

[Scrapper]

Easy to access guns.
Hard to access mental health treatment.

[tvguy]

Oh bull sh*t!  The shooter was a mental case.  He needed mental health help... and didn't get it.

Good point.

But...

Germany, England, Japan, etc., have their share of nut jobs too, but we don't see the rash of mass killings there as we do here in the good 'old U.S.A.

Something else gong on here. I mean other than our rejection of all things Christian. 

A really good OP Wonk. You are right in that many countries have people with mental problems, and they don't have anywhere near the amount of mass killings the US has. The problem in America is simple, it's easy access to guns, but people don't want to face it. 

Any talk about doing something is seen as an assault on gun rights. Intelligent people know you actually can do something about all the gun violence while still protecting gun rights. Unfortunately, they are drowned out by the more rabid NRA gun nuts like Hugo, OL and TVguy. 

Answer me this.  40 years ago kids TOOK guns to school during hunting season.  There were no school shootings. 

So it must be something other than availability of guns, correct?

Pretty much.

[Cuzz]

I think if you guys are looking for one nice neat cause that can be easily fixed you're in for disappointment.

[tvguy]

I think if you guys are looking for one nice neat cause that can be easily fixed you're in for disappointment.

Exactly, there isn't one.

[orygunluvr]

Easy to access guns.
Hard to access mental health treatment.

Mental health, I agree with you, but it isn't that it isn't accessible. First is who decides who needs mental help? Second is their rights, they can't be held against their will without being a threat, the ACLU made sure of that. So, not looking for an arguement, what do you propose we do with mental health?

[Wonky3]

Wonky..
Random shootings for reasons that can't be explained (other than metal illness) are rare in other places around the globe, but all too common here at home.


http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/...appen-oth/

From the link.

And?

And he proved Wonk's point 

 Not the point that copied and pasted, Wonky said..."Random shootings for reasons that can't be explained (other than metal illness) are rare in other places around the globe"

So I posted something that showed it's not rare at all in other countries

Be serious TVg! Look at the NUMBERS! Of course random shootings happen world wide. But not anything like what happens here. The numbers prove the point. 

But I don't have an answer. There are crazy people world wide. Maybe they just don't have access to guns in the way we do? Like I said...I don't know. But "we" better get a handle on it soon. Things are blowing up. 

[tealeaf]

Easy to access guns.
Hard to access mental health treatment.

I and mine are quite familiar with mental health help issues. Not really that hard to get mental health help. If they want it.
A huge part of the mental health issue is compliance with treatment regimens.  Most 'crazy' folks think they're fine. Or, they try to treat themselves with street drugs. That don't work.

Although they do need more inpatient facilities. Often short of beds when a few days or weeks are needed to level out.

[HolyMaryMotherOfGod]

Good point.

But...

Germany, England, Japan, etc., have their share of nut jobs too, but we don't see the rash of mass killings there as we do here in the good 'old U.S.A.

Something else gong on here. I mean other than our rejection of all things Christian. 

A really good OP Wonk. You are right in that many countries have people with mental problems, and they don't have anywhere near the amount of mass killings the US has. The problem in America is simple, it's easy access to guns, but people don't want to face it. 

Any talk about doing something is seen as an assault on gun rights. Intelligent people know you actually can do something about all the gun violence while still protecting gun rights. Unfortunately, they are drowned out by the more rabid NRA gun nuts like Hugo, OL and TVguy. 

Answer me this.  40 years ago kids TOOK guns to school during hunting season.  There were no school shootings. 

So it must be something other than availability of guns, correct?

Hunting season? You're not kidding are you?

Hell, even when I was in high school and that being a lot less than 40 years ago, students and teachers both regularly had guns on display in their vehicle gun racks during school hours, mainly because just a few miles up the road from our high school was some prime deer hunting ground.
It was never an issue, no one even gave it a second thought. I think that practice stopped via school policies post Krazy Kip Kinkle.

They still do here in SD, even though it's against the rules.

[orygunluvr]

Dontray Mills bought about 27 firearms ILLEGALLY, sold them ILLEGALLY, and got a plea deal with the Feds with no real penalties, just that he can't buy guns legally.

[tvguy]

From the link.

And?

And he proved Wonk's point 

 Not the point that copied and pasted, Wonky said..."Random shootings for reasons that can't be explained (other than metal illness) are rare in other places around the globe"

So I posted something that showed it's not rare at all in other countries

Be serious TVg! Look at the NUMBERS! Of course random shootings happen world wide. But not anything like what happens here. The numbers prove the point. 

But I don't have an answer. There are crazy people world wide. Maybe they just don't have access to guns in the way we do? Like I said...I don't know. But "we" better get a handle on it soon. Things are blowing up. 

Look at the numbers?? The USA has .15 fatalities per 100,00 from "mass shooting fatalities"

Switzerland is a .17

Norway....          1.30

Finland                .34


So are mass shootings really "rare in other places around the globe"?

Not anything like happens here?



Did you guys actually read the link I posted?



Over the decade and a half studied, the researchers found 23 incidents of mass shootings in the other 10 countries, resulting in 200 dead and 231 wounded. In the United States over the same period, there were 133 incidents that left 487 dead and 505 wounded.

Here are a just a few examples of mass shootings in other countries:
• On July 22, 2011, a total of 80 people were killed in Norway when Anders Behring Breivik, a political extremist, bombed a government building in Oslo and then went on a shooting rampage on the island of Utoya, just outside the city.
• On March 11, 2009, in Winnenden, Germany, a teenage gunman killed 15 people. The majority of the victims were children and teachers killed when the shooter opened fire in three classrooms in a local secondary school. The gunman shot two other people before killing himself after being cornered by the local police.
• On Sept. 23, 2008, in Kuahajoki, Finland, a gunman shot 10 people to death after opening fire on a classroom in the Kuahajoki School of Hospitality. After killing the students, the shooter burned the victims’ bodies.
In sum, then, Obama is wrong to say that "this type of mass violence does not happen in other advanced countries." Clearly it does happen elsewhere, and not in trivial numbers. Seven of the countries saw double-digit numbers of people killed in mass shootings during that period.
By contrast, the second part of Obama’s claim -- that "it doesn’t happen in other places with this kind of frequency" -- isn’t entirely off-base.
We compared mass shooting incidents across countries is to calculate the number of victims per capita -- that is, adjusted for the country’s total population size.
Calculating it this way shows the United States in the upper half of the list of 11 countries, ranking higher than Australia, Canada, China, England, France, Germany and Mexico.
Still, the U.S. doesn’t rank No. 1. At 0.15 mass shooting fatalities per 100,000 people, the U.S. had a lower rate than Norway (1.3 per 100,000), Finland (0.34 per 100,000) and Switzerland (1.7 per 100,000).
We’ll note that all of these countries had one or two particularly big attacks and have relatively small populations, which have pushed up their per-capita rates. In Norway, that single attack in 2011 left 67 dead by gunfire (plus additional bomb casualties). Finland had two attacks, one that killed eight and one that killed 10. And Switzerland had one incident that killed 14.
Still, while the United States did rank in the top one-third of the list, the fact that three other countries exceeded the United States using this method of comparison does weaken Obama’s claim that "it doesn’t happen in other places with this kind of frequency." In at least three countries, the data shows, it does.

[Wonky3]

And?

And he proved Wonk's point 

 Not the point that copied and pasted, Wonky said..."Random shootings for reasons that can't be explained (other than metal illness) are rare in other places around the globe"

So I posted something that showed it's not rare at all in other countries

Be serious TVg! Look at the NUMBERS! Of course random shootings happen world wide. But not anything like what happens here. The numbers prove the point. 

But I don't have an answer. There are crazy people world wide. Maybe they just don't have access to guns in the way we do? Like I said...I don't know. But "we" better get a handle on it soon. Things are blowing up. 

Look at the numbers?? The USA has .15 fatalities per 100,00 from "mass shooting fatalities"

Switzerland is a .17

Norway....          1.30

Finland                .34


So are mass shootings really "rare in other places around the globe"?

Not anything like happens here?



Did you guys actually read the link I posted?



Over the decade and a half studied, the researchers found 23 incidents of mass shootings in the other 10 countries, resulting in 200 dead and 231 wounded. In the United States over the same period, there were 133 incidents that left 487 dead and 505 wounded.

Here are a just a few examples of mass shootings in other countries:
• On July 22, 2011, a total of 80 people were killed in Norway when Anders Behring Breivik, a political extremist, bombed a government building in Oslo and then went on a shooting rampage on the island of Utoya, just outside the city.
• On March 11, 2009, in Winnenden, Germany, a teenage gunman killed 15 people. The majority of the victims were children and teachers killed when the shooter opened fire in three classrooms in a local secondary school. The gunman shot two other people before killing himself after being cornered by the local police.
• On Sept. 23, 2008, in Kuahajoki, Finland, a gunman shot 10 people to death after opening fire on a classroom in the Kuahajoki School of Hospitality. After killing the students, the shooter burned the victims’ bodies.
In sum, then, Obama is wrong to say that "this type of mass violence does not happen in other advanced countries." Clearly it does happen elsewhere, and not in trivial numbers. Seven of the countries saw double-digit numbers of people killed in mass shootings during that period.
By contrast, the second part of Obama’s claim -- that "it doesn’t happen in other places with this kind of frequency" -- isn’t entirely off-base.
We compared mass shooting incidents across countries is to calculate the number of victims per capita -- that is, adjusted for the country’s total population size.
Calculating it this way shows the United States in the upper half of the list of 11 countries, ranking higher than Australia, Canada, China, England, France, Germany and Mexico.
Still, the U.S. doesn’t rank No. 1. At 0.15 mass shooting fatalities per 100,000 people, the U.S. had a lower rate than Norway (1.3 per 100,000), Finland (0.34 per 100,000) and Switzerland (1.7 per 100,000).
We’ll note that all of these countries had one or two particularly big attacks and have relatively small populations, which have pushed up their per-capita rates. In Norway, that single attack in 2011 left 67 dead by gunfire (plus additional bomb casualties). Finland had two attacks, one that killed eight and one that killed 10. And Switzerland had one incident that killed 14.
Still, while the United States did rank in the top one-third of the list, the fact that three other countries exceeded the United States using this method of comparison does weaken Obama’s claim that "it doesn’t happen in other places with this kind of frequency." In at least three countries, the data shows, it does.

Whatever! 
Jesus H. Christ! This is NOT about what Obama said, or didn't. The reality is just that. If you watch the news (and I know you do) you know we have a problem with people shooting groups of people, and it's far too frequent. 

I don't know why. I don't have an answer or even a suggestion. I'm not "against guns". 

Huston, we have a problem! And that's just a down home fact! 

[orygunluvr]

Don't forget, Sweden is also # 2 in the world for rape.

[Wonky3]

Don't forget, Sweden is also # 2 in the world for rape.

Reminds me of my friend Flo.
"So help me", I said, "I'll rape ya"
"So rape me" she said, I'll help ya. 

[cletus1]

A really good OP Wonk. You are right in that many countries have people with mental problems, and they don't have anywhere near the amount of mass killings the US has. The problem in America is simple, it's easy access to guns, but people don't want to face it. 

Any talk about doing something is seen as an assault on gun rights. Intelligent people know you actually can do something about all the gun violence while still protecting gun rights. Unfortunately, they are drowned out by the more rabid NRA gun nuts like Hugo, OL and TVguy. 

Answer me this.  40 years ago kids TOOK guns to school during hunting season.  There were no school shootings. 

So it must be something other than availability of guns, correct?

Hunting season? You're not kidding are you?

Hell, even when I was in high school and that being a lot less than 40 years ago, students and teachers both regularly had guns on display in their vehicle gun racks during school hours, mainly because just a few miles up the road from our high school was some prime deer hunting ground.
It was never an issue, no one even gave it a second thought. I think that practice stopped via school policies post Krazy Kip Kinkle.

And again, to the point, doesn't that mean that availability and access to guns is NOT the problem?

What the hell? How can you conclude that? Easy access to guns is a big part of the problem. Just because you and your teachers had gun racks in their trucks back in "Leave it to Beaver"days doesn't mean guns aren't a problem today. They clearly are in the hands of the mentally unstable. 

[Hugo]

The problem in America is simple, it's easy access to guns

As I pointed out, this is a completely false argument, statement, and position.  They have never been HARDER to access.

Your position is invalid.

[cletus1]

The problem in America is simple, it's easy access to guns

As I pointed out, this is a completely false argument, statement, and position.  They have never been HARDER to access.

Your position is invalid.

No, your NRA brain has a virus. I can get a gun most anywhere. I did not specify just buying one from a gun store. I can borrow one, buy one from a gun show or steal one from dads drawer.