Christmas Shopping
#1
Love it or hate it, most of us still do it. I don't need anything so I will probably get some new towels and socks and like it. 

Did I mention that I am going to Saint Thomas after Chrismas? Did I mention it more than once? OK then. That is our Christmas present and I am looking forward to it. 

I will buy a few things to put under the tree. Like most people the seasonal shopping is just part of our routine, but I am kinda getting sick of Christmas. 

Ok, so what do you buy for the person that wants nothing.  Smiling
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#2
Saint Thomas? Sweet!  Have to admit... I'm a tiny bit envious.  Big Grin  We're going to Seaside, Oregon the week before Christmas.  We will be staying in a nicer place on the beach.  Does that count? Wink  Laughing

As for the gift?  No idea!  One of my favorites... the year my Grandmother passed away our daughter purchased a Star in her memory.  It was a wonderful sentiment that made us all teary.  I have the certificate in a double frame with her photo.  I love it!
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#3
Day spa package.
Yard art. 
A plant or anything to put a plant in, on, under or over. 

Coffee related? A brewer like this will make your coffee just like a barista makes a pour-over at a coffeehouse.

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#4
https://bgr.com/2015/11/17/pyro-mini-rel...announced/
I want 2 of these. One for each wrist.
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#5
(11-20-2015, 10:57 AM)bbqboy Wrote: https://bgr.com/2015/11/17/pyro-mini-rel...announced/
I want 2 of these. One for each wrist.
Awesome!
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#6
 TUE, NOV 24, 2015, AT 07:04 AM PST

Be a Decent Human Being and Don’t Go Shopping on Thanksgiving


By Jordan Weissman




Black Friday, the traditional and chaotic start to the holiday shopping season, has now creeped into the territory of Thursday’s turkey and pie. In 2014, Jordan Weissmann wrote against shopping on Thanksgiving. The original is reprinted below.


This Thanksgiving, millions of Americans will slide back from their dinner tables, get in their cars, and head for a postprandial shopping trip to snap up deals at a holiday sale.


Please, please do not be one of those people—both for your own sake, and out of respect for the retail staff who get dragooned into coming to work on a day they should have off with family. 


I know. Complaining about our mania for holiday bargain-hunting, and that Black Friday now begins on Brown Thursday, is already a bit of a cliché. Progressive-minded writers seem to spend every November lamenting the misfortune of employees forced to show up to their job on Thanksgiving. The econ bloggers at ThinkProgress have practically devoted an entire month of coverage to the subject. Meanwhile, stores like Costco, Crate and Barrel, and Marshalls now brag about the fact that they don’t open on our national day of gluttony as a way of painting themselves as family-friendly.
But it bears repeating. Thanksgiving shopping, as it currently stands, is an awful tradition that should be boycotted.


To start, Black Friday (and its Thursday lead-in) is a bit of a sham. Yes, some of those cut-rate flat-screen TVs are a real steal. But, as the Wall Street Journal explained last year, many of the supposedly great deals are a “carefully engineered illusion.” Retailers regularly mark down merchandise from heavily inflated prices to trick shoppers into believing they’re getting a bargain. Meanwhile, prices often drop further as the holiday season progresses and stores try to clear out inventory, and better deals can sometimes be found at other times of the year. Plus, in binge-shopping over Thanksgiving weekend, behavioral psychology suggests you’re pretty much dooming yourself to overspend, including on full-price items that just happen to be sitting next to those marked-down toaster ovens.


In short, those who shop on Thanksgiving are practically begging to be fleeced.
Now about all those poor Walmart, Best Buy, and JCPenney* employees who are stuck working instead of watching football. The big-picture problem here is that the United States is, of course, the only rich nation where workers aren’t guaranteed paid vacations or holidays, which is why companies like Walmart, which has stayed open on every Thanksgiving since 1988, can ask their staff to come in whether they want to or not. If we had a humane national vacation policy, none of this would be an issue.


But we don’t. And so retailers are mostly free to keep whatever hours they choose, and demand their workforce deal with it. Some companies, like Walmart and Kmart, do say they offer their staff bonus pay for working Thanksgiving (though exactly how much, in Walmart’s case, is a bit of a question). But in some cases, workers don’t have any choice but to clock in. Kmart employees, for instance, say they’ve been told they could lose their jobs or be otherwise punished if they don’t come in. Target workers are also reportedly not allowed to ask for time off work. Lots of retail workers are probably thankful for the extra holiday paycheck. But many would probably prefer not to be forced to babysit while a bunch of rampaging bargain-hunters tears through the television aisle.


What’s especially galling about this is that early Thanksgiving day sales don’t necessarily benefit the retail industry as a whole. Instead, they’re the product of a massive collective action problem. Opening up on Thursday doesn’t increase sales overall. But companies are worried that if they don’t, their customers will simply do their shopping elsewhere. “Retailers are trying to get a jump on the competition,” Bill Martin of mall-traffic tracker ShopperTrak told MarketWatch last year. “Thursday is simply selling the stuff at the expense of Black Friday.” Many of the stores that do choose to stay closed on Thanksgiving, like Neiman Marcus, Sam’s Club, Costco, and Crate and Barrel cater to somewhat wealthier clientele and don’t rely on massive markdowns to court customers. They have the luxury of sitting out of the competition. But we can’t rationally expect big-box stores like Best Buy, Walmart, and Kmart that cater to the cash-strapped middle class to do the same.


We could try to solve this problem with regulation. Massachusetts, Maine, and Rhode Island ban stores from opening on Thanksgiving. A state lawmaker in Ohio has introduced a bill that would force stores to pay employees triple wages for working on the holiday and allow them to take the day off without facing retaliation.


But until workers can freely choose whether to show up for the job on Thanksgiving, consumers who take advantage of these overhyped sales are simply voting for the gross status quo. Right now, Brown Thursday is a terrible bargain for society. Don’t fall for it.
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#7
Hmmmm, even I, not exactly the biggest flag waver of Capitalism, thinks that it's for the government to get involved in wages for holiday pay.  
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#8
(11-24-2015, 12:57 PM)Tiamat Wrote: Hmmmm, even I, not exactly the biggest flag waver of Capitalism, thinks that it's for the government to get involved in wages for holiday pay.  

What?
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#9
It's bullshit. If people don't want to work on holiday then don't take a job where your employer expects you to.
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#10
(11-24-2015, 01:03 PM)tvguy Wrote: It's bullshit. If people don't want to work on holiday then don't take a job where your employer expects you to.

I don't "get" Tia's comment either, but I think the people you describe above have the right to "bargain" about the pay they get for working on holidays (or any other day). They may not win, but hey should have to right to bargain. 

An example (if you have time).

I worked at a large utility company for 35 years, and the last "stint" of about 15 years was in an operations office. It was a 24/7 office and Sunday was in the rotating schedule as a regular work day. We never negotiated for premium pay for Sundays, because like you said above, when you take certain jobs you take it "as is" or don't accept it. However, we did bargain for premium pay for work past an 8 hour day and a 40 hour week...and got it. 

To Clete's point: YES! Stay out of the damn stores on Thanksgiving day, for a lot of good reasons! (Clete for mayor!) 
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#11
(11-24-2015, 01:31 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(11-24-2015, 01:03 PM)tvguy Wrote: It's bullshit. If people don't want to work on holiday then don't take a job where your employer expects you to.

I don't "get" Tia's comment either, but I think the people you describe above have the right to "bargain" about the pay they get for working on holidays (or any other day). They may not win, but hey should have to right to bargain. 

An example (if you have time).

I worked at a large utility company for 35 years, and the last "stint" of about 15 years was in an operations office. It was a 24/7 office and Sunday was in the rotating schedule as a regular work day. We never negotiated for premium pay for Sundays, because like you said above, when you take certain jobs you take it "as is" or don't accept it. However, we did bargain for premium pay for work past an 8 hour day and a 40 hour week...and got it. 

To Clete's point: YES! Stay out of the damn stores on Thanksgiving day, for a lot of good reasons! (Clete for mayor!) 

Actually Clete didn't make a point , he just posted an article. Smiling


As for the right to bargain? Sure they should have and I guess they do have the right. But good luck with that. Is there any king of retail store worker union? I don't think so.
The only think I think they have to guarantee any rights is the Bureau of labor and they suck.

Store owners don't even have to pay overtime for any holidays.
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#12
(11-24-2015, 02:01 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(11-24-2015, 01:31 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(11-24-2015, 01:03 PM)tvguy Wrote: It's bullshit. If people don't want to work on holiday then don't take a job where your employer expects you to.

I don't "get" Tia's comment either, but I think the people you describe above have the right to "bargain" about the pay they get for working on holidays (or any other day). They may not win, but hey should have to right to bargain. 

An example (if you have time).

I worked at a large utility company for 35 years, and the last "stint" of about 15 years was in an operations office. It was a 24/7 office and Sunday was in the rotating schedule as a regular work day. We never negotiated for premium pay for Sundays, because like you said above, when you take certain jobs you take it "as is" or don't accept it. However, we did bargain for premium pay for work past an 8 hour day and a 40 hour week...and got it. 

To Clete's point: YES! Stay out of the damn stores on Thanksgiving day, for a lot of good reasons! (Clete for mayor!) 

Actually Clete didn't make a point , he just posted an article. Smiling


As for the right to bargain? Sure they should have and I guess they do have the right. But good luck with that. Is there any king of retail store worker union? I don't think so.
The only think I think they have to guarantee any rights is the Bureau of labor and they suck.

Store owners don't even have to pay overtime for any holidays.

The SEIU has been trying for a long time to represent retail clerks but large Box Stores and national chains have spent TONS of money keeping them out. 
Times have changed. It takes a majority of employees willing sign the Union card before a Union can represent the workers. For a lot of reasons (some good) people are reluctant to pay Union dues now, but in the long run pay the price when owners treat them without respect or consider their needs. 

When it gets BAD ENOUGH workers will unite and bargain collectively. History proves the point. 
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#13
(11-24-2015, 02:32 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(11-24-2015, 02:01 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(11-24-2015, 01:31 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(11-24-2015, 01:03 PM)tvguy Wrote: It's bullshit. If people don't want to work on holiday then don't take a job where your employer expects you to.

I don't "get" Tia's comment either, but I think the people you describe above have the right to "bargain" about the pay they get for working on holidays (or any other day). They may not win, but hey should have to right to bargain. 

An example (if you have time).

I worked at a large utility company for 35 years, and the last "stint" of about 15 years was in an operations office. It was a 24/7 office and Sunday was in the rotating schedule as a regular work day. We never negotiated for premium pay for Sundays, because like you said above, when you take certain jobs you take it "as is" or don't accept it. However, we did bargain for premium pay for work past an 8 hour day and a 40 hour week...and got it. 

To Clete's point: YES! Stay out of the damn stores on Thanksgiving day, for a lot of good reasons! (Clete for mayor!) 

Actually Clete didn't make a point , he just posted an article. Smiling


As for the right to bargain? Sure they should have and I guess they do have the right. But good luck with that. Is there any king of retail store worker union? I don't think so.
The only think I think they have to guarantee any rights is the Bureau of labor and they suck.

Store owners don't even have to pay overtime for any holidays.

The SEIU has been trying for a long time to represent retail clerks but large Box Stores and national chains have spent TONS of money keeping them out. 
Times have changed. It takes a majority of employees willing sign the Union card before a Union can represent the workers. For a lot of reasons (some good) people are reluctant to pay Union dues now, but in the long run pay the price when owners treat them without respect or consider their needs. 

When it gets BAD ENOUGH workers will unite and bargain collectively. History proves the point. 

On the other hand aren't unions Normally most successful for skilled labor?
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#14
(11-24-2015, 02:01 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(11-24-2015, 01:31 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(11-24-2015, 01:03 PM)tvguy Wrote: It's bullshit. If people don't want to work on holiday then don't take a job where your employer expects you to.

I don't "get" Tia's comment either, but I think the people you describe above have the right to "bargain" about the pay they get for working on holidays (or any other day). They may not win, but hey should have to right to bargain. 

An example (if you have time).

I worked at a large utility company for 35 years, and the last "stint" of about 15 years was in an operations office. It was a 24/7 office and Sunday was in the rotating schedule as a regular work day. We never negotiated for premium pay for Sundays, because like you said above, when you take certain jobs you take it "as is" or don't accept it. However, we did bargain for premium pay for work past an 8 hour day and a 40 hour week...and got it. 

To Clete's point: YES! Stay out of the damn stores on Thanksgiving day, for a lot of good reasons! (Clete for mayor!) 

Actually Clete didn't make a point , he just posted an article. Smiling


As for the right to bargain? Sure they should have and I guess they do have the right. But good luck with that. Is there any king of retail store worker union? I don't think so.
The only think I think they have to guarantee any rights is the Bureau of labor and they suck.

Store owners don't even have to pay overtime for any holidays.

I could argue the other way on working Thanksgiving. For example: Seasonal employees might like the additional hours. The only problem with that idea, is that employees don't really get more hours in the long run. Big retailers keep many part time workers and adjust work schedules to keep payroll as low as possible. So if you worked Thanksgiving you might get some other day off. 

If no one shopped on Thanksgiving, the stores would not open, but people will shop, you can count on it. 
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#15
I think Tia forgot a "not".
But she actually works, so it make take her a while to get back to us.
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#16
Remember, there are terrorist out there, bring your guns.
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#17
(11-24-2015, 03:24 PM)bbqboy Wrote: I think Tia forgot a "not".
But she actually works, so it make take her a while to get back to us.

Yep, I forgot to put in the word "Not". Sorry, posted that on my lunch.
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#18
But still, I hate black Friday, and will not participate and don't think  people should do it. But people seem to love it. I can't imagine why.
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#19
(11-24-2015, 01:02 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(11-24-2015, 12:57 PM)Tiamat Wrote: Hmmmm, even I, not exactly the biggest flag waver of Capitalism, thinks that it's for the government to get involved in wages for holiday pay.  

What?

Sorry TV, I wrote that on the fly while busy. What I meant to say was that I don't think it's the governments job to set wages for holiday pay. That's a fairly Capitalistic thing to say, isn't it?  Well, I think it is.
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#20
(11-24-2015, 07:27 PM)Tiamat Wrote:
(11-24-2015, 03:24 PM)bbqboy Wrote: I think Tia forgot a "not".
But she actually works, so it make take her a while to get back to us.

Yep, I forgot to put in the word "Not". Sorry, posted that on my lunch.

One lunch martini or two?  Razz
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