Join The Resistance
(10-06-2017, 01:06 PM)chuck white Wrote: Michael Moore needs to be in more protest marches, or anything else that gets him out walking.

Better yet, he needs a job. Like loading bags of concrete onto flat bed trucks all day. He wouldn't last: He'd run his mouth and the crew would kill him the 2nd day. (But, doubt he's make it to the 2nd day)
Reply
(10-05-2017, 10:20 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(10-05-2017, 09:13 PM)Valuesize Wrote: Big Grin


So, from:

Juniper Wrote: Wrote:
(09-13-2017, 09:26 AM)Wonky3 Wrote: Wrote:
(09-12-2017, 07:40 PM)chuck white Wrote: Wrote:
(09-12-2017, 06:08 PM)Juniper Wrote: Wrote:OK....I'm lost. [Image: icon_rvf_blink.gif] [Image: icon_rvf_laugh.gif] [Image: icon_rvf_laugh.gif]


Relax....take a big breath.
Slowly look down at your feet.
There you are, you just found yourself.

Never lost, we just sometimes don't know where we are.

 I lost track of this...now I'm over it.


...and getting over stuff is half the battle. The other half don't matter.



To Jefferson Airplane and "Revolution" ...
I don't get it. Or did you just have a sudden impulse to post a video of Grace Slick when she was young and attractive? 
Watch those sudden impulses.  Wink
"Revolution"...  thread called Join the "resistance".  Could be a connection. Big Grin
Reply
(10-06-2017, 01:27 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(10-05-2017, 10:20 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(10-05-2017, 09:13 PM)Valuesize Wrote: Big Grin


So, from:

Juniper Wrote: Wrote:
(09-13-2017, 09:26 AM)Wonky3 Wrote: Wrote:
(09-12-2017, 07:40 PM)chuck white Wrote: Wrote:Relax....take a big breath.
Slowly look down at your feet.
There you are, you just found yourself.

Never lost, we just sometimes don't know where we are.

 I lost track of this...now I'm over it.


...and getting over stuff is half the battle. The other half don't matter.



To Jefferson Airplane and "Revolution" ...
I don't get it. Or did you just have a sudden impulse to post a video of Grace Slick when she was young and attractive? 
Watch those sudden impulses.  Wink
"Revolution"...  thread called Join the "resistance".  Could be a connection. Big Grin

Thank you! My mom always taught us "If you don't have anything good to say, don't say anything at all." I couldn't find anything good to say...  Big Grin
Reply
(10-06-2017, 02:45 PM)Valuesize Wrote:
(10-06-2017, 01:27 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(10-05-2017, 10:20 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(10-05-2017, 09:13 PM)Valuesize Wrote: Big Grin


So, from:

Juniper Wrote: Wrote:
(09-13-2017, 09:26 AM)Wonky3 Wrote: Wrote:Never lost, we just sometimes don't know where we are.

 I lost track of this...now I'm over it.


...and getting over stuff is half the battle. The other half don't matter.



To Jefferson Airplane and "Revolution" ...
I don't get it. Or did you just have a sudden impulse to post a video of Grace Slick when she was young and attractive? 
Watch those sudden impulses.  Wink
"Revolution"...  thread called Join the "resistance".  Could be a connection. Big Grin

Thank you! My mom always taught us "If you don't have anything good to say, don't say anything at all." I couldn't find anything good to say...  Big Grin
There are times, perhaps few, when it may be better to voice a thought than remain silent simply because you are holding to your mother's advice. Your mother was no doubt a thoughtful and intelligent person, but no one is right all the time, in all situations. 
Go ahead: Speak up.

Note to TV: That Michael Moore wanted to "resist" is enough to make me dislike the bag of puss even more, but to even imagine that jerk leading a revolution is enough to make me want to move to Canada. He is a loudmouth, lazy, bum who gives liberals a bad name.
Reply
(10-06-2017, 02:52 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(10-06-2017, 02:45 PM)Valuesize Wrote:
(10-06-2017, 01:27 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(10-05-2017, 10:20 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(10-05-2017, 09:13 PM)Valuesize Wrote: Big Grin


So, from:

Juniper Wrote: Wrote: I lost track of this...now I'm over it.


...and getting over stuff is half the battle. The other half don't matter.



To Jefferson Airplane and "Revolution" ...
I don't get it. Or did you just have a sudden impulse to post a video of Grace Slick when she was young and attractive? 
Watch those sudden impulses.  Wink
"Revolution"...  thread called Join the "resistance".  Could be a connection. Big Grin

Thank you! My mom always taught us "If you don't have anything good to say, don't say anything at all." I couldn't find anything good to say...  Big Grin
There are times, perhaps few, when it may be better to voice a thought than remain silent simply because you are holding to your mother's advice. Your mother was no doubt a thoughtful and intelligent person, but no one is right all the time, in all situations. 
Go ahead: Speak up.

Zipped




Razz
Reply
(10-06-2017, 02:58 PM)Valuesize Wrote:
(10-06-2017, 02:52 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(10-06-2017, 02:45 PM)Valuesize Wrote:
(10-06-2017, 01:27 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(10-05-2017, 10:20 PM)Wonky3 Wrote: So, from:



...and getting over stuff is half the battle. The other half don't matter.



To Jefferson Airplane and "Revolution" ...
I don't get it. Or did you just have a sudden impulse to post a video of Grace Slick when she was young and attractive? 
Watch those sudden impulses.  Wink
"Revolution"...  thread called Join the "resistance".  Could be a connection. Big Grin

Thank you! My mom always taught us "If you don't have anything good to say, don't say anything at all." I couldn't find anything good to say...  Big Grin
There are times, perhaps few, when it may be better to voice a thought than remain silent simply because you are holding to your mother's advice. Your mother was no doubt a thoughtful and intelligent person, but no one is right all the time, in all situations. 
Go ahead: Speak up.

Zipped




Razz
Well said.
Now, if you have time go back up to post #624.
Reply
(10-06-2017, 02:52 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(10-06-2017, 02:45 PM)Valuesize Wrote:
(10-06-2017, 01:27 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(10-05-2017, 10:20 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(10-05-2017, 09:13 PM)Valuesize Wrote: Big Grin


So, from:

Juniper Wrote: Wrote: I lost track of this...now I'm over it.


...and getting over stuff is half the battle. The other half don't matter.



To Jefferson Airplane and "Revolution" ...
I don't get it. Or did you just have a sudden impulse to post a video of Grace Slick when she was young and attractive? 
Watch those sudden impulses.  Wink
"Revolution"...  thread called Join the "resistance".  Could be a connection. Big Grin

Thank you! My mom always taught us "If you don't have anything good to say, don't say anything at all." I couldn't find anything good to say...  Big Grin
There are times, perhaps few, when it may be better to voice a thought than remain silent simply because you are holding to your mother's advice. Your mother was no doubt a thoughtful and intelligent person, but no one is right all the time, in all situations. 
Go ahead: Speak up.

Note to TV: That Michael Moore wanted to "resist" is enough to make me dislike the bag of puss even more, but to even imagine that jerk leading a revolution is enough to make me want to move to Canada. He is a loudmouth, lazy, bum who gives liberals a bad name.

In this case "resist" is nothing but a form of peaceful protest. But if he pulls off this "mass movement of millions" It won't be about Moore.
It will be because we now have the dumbest self absorbed and full of shit president we have EVER had.
Reply
(10-06-2017, 03:21 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(10-06-2017, 02:52 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(10-06-2017, 02:45 PM)Valuesize Wrote:
(10-06-2017, 01:27 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(10-05-2017, 10:20 PM)Wonky3 Wrote: So, from:



...and getting over stuff is half the battle. The other half don't matter.



To Jefferson Airplane and "Revolution" ...
I don't get it. Or did you just have a sudden impulse to post a video of Grace Slick when she was young and attractive? 
Watch those sudden impulses.  Wink
"Revolution"...  thread called Join the "resistance".  Could be a connection. Big Grin

Thank you! My mom always taught us "If you don't have anything good to say, don't say anything at all." I couldn't find anything good to say...  Big Grin
There are times, perhaps few, when it may be better to voice a thought than remain silent simply because you are holding to your mother's advice. Your mother was no doubt a thoughtful and intelligent person, but no one is right all the time, in all situations. 
Go ahead: Speak up.

Note to TV: That Michael Moore wanted to "resist" is enough to make me dislike the bag of puss even more, but to even imagine that jerk leading a revolution is enough to make me want to move to Canada. He is a loudmouth, lazy, bum who gives liberals a bad name.

In this case "resist" is nothing but a form of peaceful protest. But if he pulls off this "mass movement of millions" It won't be about Moore.
It will be because we now have the dumbest self absorbed and full of shit president we have EVER had.
Moore won't pull off anything but his dirty shorts. (Maybe not even that) 
In good time we just might see resistance against the guy you describe as "the dumbest self absorbed and full of shit president we have EVER had". I agree.
This president has the potential to screw up so completely that even his cabinet will walk out on him and congress refuse to take his calls. At some point, I suspect congress will find a reason to impeach him. They many never put him in jail but he could end up back on reality TV where he belongs. 
Can't be soon enough.
(But Moore won't have any part in getting that done) 
Reply
(10-06-2017, 03:57 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(10-06-2017, 03:21 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(10-06-2017, 02:52 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(10-06-2017, 02:45 PM)Valuesize Wrote:
(10-06-2017, 01:27 PM)tvguy Wrote: "Revolution"...  thread called Join the "resistance".  Could be a connection. Big Grin

Thank you! My mom always taught us "If you don't have anything good to say, don't say anything at all." I couldn't find anything good to say...  Big Grin
There are times, perhaps few, when it may be better to voice a thought than remain silent simply because you are holding to your mother's advice. Your mother was no doubt a thoughtful and intelligent person, but no one is right all the time, in all situations. 
Go ahead: Speak up.

Note to TV: That Michael Moore wanted to "resist" is enough to make me dislike the bag of puss even more, but to even imagine that jerk leading a revolution is enough to make me want to move to Canada. He is a loudmouth, lazy, bum who gives liberals a bad name.

In this case "resist" is nothing but a form of peaceful protest. But if he pulls off this "mass movement of millions" It won't be about Moore.
It will be because we now have the dumbest self absorbed and full of shit president we have EVER had.
Moore won't pull off anything but his dirty shorts. (Maybe not even that) 
In good time we just might see resistance against the guy you describe as "the dumbest self absorbed and full of shit president we have EVER had". I agree.
This president has the potential to screw up so completely that even his cabinet will walk out on him and congress refuse to take his calls. At some point, I suspect congress will find a reason to impeach him. They many never put him in jail but he could end up back on reality TV where he belongs. 
Can't be soon enough.
(But Moore won't have any part in getting that done) 

(But Moore won't have any part in getting that done)

That's just wishful thinking. People like him and Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton do indeed have followers.

 
 







Reply
(10-06-2017, 04:42 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(10-06-2017, 03:57 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(10-06-2017, 03:21 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(10-06-2017, 02:52 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(10-06-2017, 02:45 PM)Valuesize Wrote: Thank you! My mom always taught us "If you don't have anything good to say, don't say anything at all." I couldn't find anything good to say...  Big Grin
There are times, perhaps few, when it may be better to voice a thought than remain silent simply because you are holding to your mother's advice. Your mother was no doubt a thoughtful and intelligent person, but no one is right all the time, in all situations. 
Go ahead: Speak up.

Note to TV: That Michael Moore wanted to "resist" is enough to make me dislike the bag of puss even more, but to even imagine that jerk leading a revolution is enough to make me want to move to Canada. He is a loudmouth, lazy, bum who gives liberals a bad name.

In this case "resist" is nothing but a form of peaceful protest. But if he pulls off this "mass movement of millions" It won't be about Moore.
It will be because we now have the dumbest self absorbed and full of shit president we have EVER had.
Moore won't pull off anything but his dirty shorts. (Maybe not even that) 
In good time we just might see resistance against the guy you describe as "the dumbest self absorbed and full of shit president we have EVER had". I agree.
This president has the potential to screw up so completely that even his cabinet will walk out on him and congress refuse to take his calls. At some point, I suspect congress will find a reason to impeach him. They many never put him in jail but he could end up back on reality TV where he belongs. 
Can't be soon enough.
(But Moore won't have any part in getting that done) 

(But Moore won't have any part in getting that done)

That's just wishful thinking. People like him and Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton do indeed have followers.

 

Some folks will follow anyone. 
Let's watch and wait.
Reply
Is Cleatus in jail?   He's been awfully silent.  Absent since June.
Reply
(10-09-2017, 08:51 AM)SFLiberal Wrote: Is Cleatus in jail?   He's been awfully silent.  Absent since June.

https://www.roguevalleyforum.com/forum/s...#pid392820
Reply
(10-09-2017, 08:55 AM)Valuesize Wrote:
(10-09-2017, 08:51 AM)SFLiberal Wrote: Is Cleatus in jail?   He's been awfully silent.  Absent since June.

https://www.roguevalleyforum.com/forum/s...#pid392820

And sorely missed!  Sad
Reply
Wednesday, October 18, 2017

Dear Elected Official,


This is not a time for “patience” — Donald Trump is not fit for office. It is evident that there is zero reason to believe “he can be a good president.”


Whether by the nature of Mr. Trump’s relationship with Vladimir Putin and Russia, his willingness to exploit the office of the Presidency for his personal gain and treat the government like a family enterprise, his conduct during Charlottesville, his decision to pull out of the Paris climate accords, or his seeming determination to take the nation to war, he has violated the Constitution, the office of the Presidency, and the trust of the public. He is a clear and present danger to the United States of America.


Republican Senator Bob Corker, Chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, referred to the Trump White House as a day care center, and observed that this president has put us “on the path to World War III.” This comes following reports that Trump’s own Secretary of State referred to him as a “moron” and that Chief of Staff John Kelly and Secretary of Defense James Mattis have an agreement not to leave Trump home alone for fear of what he could do. And we have seen other Republican Senators, including Senators Sasse and Flake, express their own profound concerns.
If Trump has lost the trust of the members of his own administration and leading members of his own party, surely it is time to act.


An accounting of his record to date leads to the same conclusion. He is turning his back on Lady Liberty by holding immigrant children hostage. He is actively sabotaging the Affordable Care Act — a law he is constitutionally obligated to faithfully execute — while seeking to strip away health care coverage that will leave millions of Americans to choose between life and bankruptcy. He is repealing clean air protections and unleashing polluters, even as increasingly catastrophic natural disasters supercharged by our warming planet ravaged the country throughout the summer — from hurricanes Harvey, Irma, and Maria, to the wildfires that have raged across California, Oregon, Washington, Idaho, and Montana. He has threatened to reduce aid for millions of American citizens in Puerto Rico who are struggling to survive without drinkable water or electricity — a move that would be a total dereliction of his duty. And every day, Americans are left bracing for a Twitter screed that could set off a nuclear war. These actions represent systemic attacks on our nation’s future. They endanger every single one of your constituents. That’s why you have a duty to speak out.


There is no moral reason to remain silent about this. Constitutional experts like Noah Feldman have already laid out clear legal and historical foundations for impeachment.  Founding Father Alexander Hamilton, a co-author of the Federalist Papers — and an immigrant himself — argued that “high crimes and misdemeanors” could be defined as “abuse or violation of some public trust.” This president has clearly already exceeded these standards. Congress has impeached past presidents for far less.


While we know that Republicans do not seem prepared to pursue impeachment even as members in their own ranks openly question Trump’s fitness for office, we are all working hard to ensure Democrats will take back the House and Senate in 2018.  


Given Trump’s total lack of fitness for office, the question of impeachment becomes a very real issue should we succeed in our midterm goal. That makes it imperative for every Governor of every state, and every mayor of every city, to acknowledge where they stand. This question affects the lives of every single American. They deserve to hear whether or not our party is willing to do what is necessary to protect them and their families. This is not an academic exercise. The very stability of the Republic is at stake.


So, by way of this letter, I am asking you today to make public your position on the impeachment of Donald Trump, and to urge your federal representatives to remove him from office at once. Every day he remains in reach of the nuclear codes is another day for him to menace the citizens you serve and protect. Your constituents deserve to know they are represented by people in every level of government who have the patriotism and political courage to stand up and take action when it is so desperately needed.  This is not a time to give in to an establishment that insists on acting the way the establishment always does, with “patience” or “caution.” It is an unprecedented moment, and it calls for extraordinary measures. We cannot remain fixated on what is politically smart. We have to do what is morally right.


Sincerely, 
— 
Tom Steyer
Reply
(10-24-2017, 10:24 AM)Valuesize Wrote: Wednesday, October 18, 2017

Dear Elected Official,


This is not a time for “patience” — Donald Trump is not fit for office. It is evident that there is zero reason to believe “he can be a good president.”


Whether by the nature of Mr. Trump’s relationship with Vladimir Putin and Russia, his willingness to exploit the office of the Presidency for his personal gain and treat the government like a family enterprise, his conduct during Charlottesville, his decision to pull out of the Paris climate accords, or his seeming determination to take the nation to war, he has violated the Constitution, the office of the Presidency, and the trust of the public. He is a clear and present danger to the United States of America.


Republican Senator Bob Corker, Chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, referred to the Trump White House as a day care center, and observed that this president has put us “on the path to World War III.” This comes following reports that Trump’s own Secretary of State referred to him as a “moron” and that Chief of Staff John Kelly and Secretary of Defense James Mattis have an agreement not to leave Trump home alone for fear of what he could do. And we have seen other Republican Senators, including Senators Sasse and Flake, express their own profound concerns.
If Trump has lost the trust of the members of his own administration and leading members of his own party, surely it is time to act.


An accounting of his record to date leads to the same conclusion. He is turning his back on Lady Liberty by holding immigrant children hostage. He is actively sabotaging the Affordable Care Act — a law he is constitutionally obligated to faithfully execute — while seeking to strip away health care coverage that will leave millions of Americans to choose between life and bankruptcy. He is repealing clean air protections and unleashing polluters, even as increasingly catastrophic natural disasters supercharged by our warming planet ravaged the country throughout the summer — from hurricanes Harvey, Irma, and Maria, to the wildfires that have raged across California, Oregon, Washington, Idaho, and Montana. He has threatened to reduce aid for millions of American citizens in Puerto Rico who are struggling to survive without drinkable water or electricity — a move that would be a total dereliction of his duty. And every day, Americans are left bracing for a Twitter screed that could set off a nuclear war. These actions represent systemic attacks on our nation’s future. They endanger every single one of your constituents. That’s why you have a duty to speak out.


There is no moral reason to remain silent about this. Constitutional experts like Noah Feldman have already laid out clear legal and historical foundations for impeachment.  Founding Father Alexander Hamilton, a co-author of the Federalist Papers — and an immigrant himself — argued that “high crimes and misdemeanors” could be defined as “abuse or violation of some public trust.” This president has clearly already exceeded these standards. Congress has impeached past presidents for far less.


While we know that Republicans do not seem prepared to pursue impeachment even as members in their own ranks openly question Trump’s fitness for office, we are all working hard to ensure Democrats will take back the House and Senate in 2018.  


Given Trump’s total lack of fitness for office, the question of impeachment becomes a very real issue should we succeed in our midterm goal. That makes it imperative for every Governor of every state, and every mayor of every city, to acknowledge where they stand. This question affects the lives of every single American. They deserve to hear whether or not our party is willing to do what is necessary to protect them and their families. This is not an academic exercise. The very stability of the Republic is at stake.


So, by way of this letter, I am asking you today to make public your position on the impeachment of Donald Trump, and to urge your federal representatives to remove him from office at once. Every day he remains in reach of the nuclear codes is another day for him to menace the citizens you serve and protect. Your constituents deserve to know they are represented by people in every level of government who have the patriotism and political courage to stand up and take action when it is so desperately needed.  This is not a time to give in to an establishment that insists on acting the way the establishment always does, with “patience” or “caution.” It is an unprecedented moment, and it calls for extraordinary measures. We cannot remain fixated on what is politically smart. We have to do what is morally right.


Sincerely, 
— 
Tom Steyer

Laughing Laughing  Priceless drivel!
Reply
(10-24-2017, 10:26 AM)Hugo Wrote: Laughing Laughing  Priceless drivel!

Thank you Larry, but you don't really need to reaffirm your thoughts on these important matters. We know who and what you are.

[Image: tinfoilhat.jpg]
Reply
For those banana screamers that don't watch CNN...  Laughing

Reply
(10-24-2017, 11:46 AM)Valuesize Wrote: For those banana screamers that don't watch CNN...  Laughing


Thanks you CNN for making simple what was already simplistic. 
Most of us don't have a problem with apples/bananas. 
Some of us have divergent opinions about climate change, it's causes and it's effects. 
Some of us feel all guns should be taken from private individuals and some feel all gun control is unnecessary. 
Some of us feel "that government which governs least governs best" and others want a strong federal government.
Some of us feel vaccinating our children is evil, others feel to not do so threatens the group.

Apples and bananas I don't have a problem with. 

In VS's post #634 written by Tom Steyer, we are not given the source: Letter to the editor or from a national publication we might all recognize as a legitimate source?  

And Hugo responds by calling it drivel, without offering his reasons for that judgement. 

This is not apples and bananas. This is a lack of a reasonable and intelligent exchange to engage in a discussion.

So, VS suggests Hugo wears an aluminum foil hat and talks to cats. This of course will promote the exchanges we hope for here, the sharing of opinions and feelings that might effect changes in how we understand the issues we present. 

Who the hell are we and what the hell are we doing? 

Same old crap.
Reply
(10-24-2017, 12:25 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(10-24-2017, 11:46 AM)Valuesize Wrote: For those banana screamers that don't watch CNN...  Laughing


Thanks you CNN for making simple what was already simplistic. 
Most of us don't have a problem with apples/bananas. 
Some of us have divergent opinions about climate change, it's causes and it's effects. 
Some of us feel all guns should be taken from private individuals and some feel all gun control is unnecessary. 
Some of us feel "that government which governs least governs best" and others want a strong federal government.
Some of us feel vaccinating our children is evil, others feel to not do so threatens the group.

Apples and bananas I don't have a problem with. 

In VS's post #634 written by Tom Steyer, we are not given the source: Letter to the editor or from a national publication we might all recognize as a legitimate source?  

And Hugo responds by calling it drivel, without offering his reasons for that judgement. 

This is not apples and bananas. This is a lack of a reasonable and intelligent exchange to engage in a discussion.

So, VS suggests Hugo wears an aluminum foil hat and talks to cats. This of course will promote the exchanges we hope for here, the sharing of opinions and feelings that might effect changes in how we understand the issues we present. 

Who the hell are we and what the hell are we doing? 

Same old crap.

If you don't fucking like it, why are you still here?
Reply
(10-24-2017, 01:18 PM)Hugo Wrote:
(10-24-2017, 12:25 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(10-24-2017, 11:46 AM)Valuesize Wrote: For those banana screamers that don't watch CNN...  Laughing


Thanks you CNN for making simple what was already simplistic. 
Most of us don't have a problem with apples/bananas. 
Some of us have divergent opinions about climate change, it's causes and it's effects. 
Some of us feel all guns should be taken from private individuals and some feel all gun control is unnecessary. 
Some of us feel "that government which governs least governs best" and others want a strong federal government.
Some of us feel vaccinating our children is evil, others feel to not do so threatens the group.

Apples and bananas I don't have a problem with. 

In VS's post #634 written by Tom Steyer, we are not given the source: Letter to the editor or from a national publication we might all recognize as a legitimate source?  

And Hugo responds by calling it drivel, without offering his reasons for that judgement. 

This is not apples and bananas. This is a lack of a reasonable and intelligent exchange to engage in a discussion.

So, VS suggests Hugo wears an aluminum foil hat and talks to cats. This of course will promote the exchanges we hope for here, the sharing of opinions and feelings that might effect changes in how we understand the issues we present. 

Who the hell are we and what the hell are we doing? 

Same old crap.

If you don't fucking like it, why are you still here?

No shit. How many times Wonky, will you bitch about our conduct or how and what and when we post?

The definition of insanity ...... doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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