What Trump can do...Right Away
#21
(12-06-2016, 08:35 AM)Hugo Wrote:
(12-06-2016, 07:32 AM)chuck white Wrote:
(12-06-2016, 07:05 AM)Hugo Wrote:
(12-05-2016, 09:35 PM)chuck white Wrote:
(12-05-2016, 09:30 PM)Valuesize Wrote: A birther huh? Figures.

I think he believes, life starts at conception. So if he was conceived in Kenya...

Laughing Anyone who know me, or has followed me here, knows I am not a birther.  Since I was responding to you, chuck, I thought I would use the same type of humor you employ.

Guess I'll leave stupid cryptic responses to you and Tia.

I got your joke, I set  it up.

Just pointing it out to valuesize, to whom I do not directly respond to or converse with.

Because he can't admit  a simple truth.
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#22
Some people are so far over the edge with Trump Derangement Syndrome that it is simply a waste of time to attempt conversation, or expect intelligent responses from them.

I choose happiness.
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#23
(12-06-2016, 09:23 AM)Hugo Wrote: Some people are so far over the edge with Trump Derangement Syndrome that it is simply a waste of time to attempt conversation, or expect intelligent responses from them.

I choose happiness.
TDS is what OL, SFLib, Tornado, GPNative, H/arry, et al suffer with.
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#24
And some people are so far over the edge they can't see the forest for the trees.
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#25
(12-05-2016, 03:19 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(12-05-2016, 02:59 PM)GPnative Wrote:
(12-05-2016, 02:56 PM)Valuesize Wrote:
(12-05-2016, 02:47 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(12-05-2016, 01:56 PM)orygunluvr Wrote: Don't worry wonk, when the demokkkratikkk establishment emails said they like their supporters uninformed and complacent they meant you to.

As in me TOO? 
Sorry. That was snarky and we all make mistakes. It's just that given the content of this post (and almost all you offer) I couldn't help but wonder...
OL, you are a one trick pony. But hey, ponies are fun and harmless.

They're not harmless. Idiots like him are who put Trump in office.

Nope, the idiots who gave Hillary the nomination on a silver platter are who put Trump in office.

I've been thinking a lot about that. Seems she was "ordained", that is was a forgone conclusion that having elected our first black president we would then elect our first woman president. 

Then Bernie Sanders reared up and upset the apple cart. I liked a lot of what Bernie said. I just could not support a guy who was not just an over the top liberal but who really did espouse true Socialist programs. (For instance: Free tuition for ALL college students at state schools. Why? Shouldn't affluent folks who send kids to state schools...many do...pay the fulll load?). 

So we got Hillary. And Hillary forgot all about the working folks who are, for whatever reason, frightened, discouraged, feeling hopeless, and looking for change...any change that might bring back jobs that can support a family. 

Hillary wasn't crooked. Isn't crooked. Hillary was not only unaware but about as exciting as watching paint dry. 

So yeah, the idots who gave us Hillary. 

Now look what we have.
"Free" college for all? And this from the crowd that thinks itself the "smartest" bunch around?

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#26
(12-06-2016, 10:05 AM)capitalist pig Wrote:
(12-05-2016, 03:19 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(12-05-2016, 02:59 PM)GPnative Wrote:
(12-05-2016, 02:56 PM)Valuesize Wrote:
(12-05-2016, 02:47 PM)Wonky3 Wrote: As in me TOO? 
Sorry. That was snarky and we all make mistakes. It's just that given the content of this post (and almost all you offer) I couldn't help but wonder...
OL, you are a one trick pony. But hey, ponies are fun and harmless.

They're not harmless. Idiots like him are who put Trump in office.

Nope, the idiots who gave Hillary the nomination on a silver platter are who put Trump in office.

I've been thinking a lot about that. Seems she was "ordained", that is was a forgone conclusion that having elected our first black president we would then elect our first woman president. 

Then Bernie Sanders reared up and upset the apple cart. I liked a lot of what Bernie said. I just could not support a guy who was not just an over the top liberal but who really did espouse true Socialist programs. (For instance: Free tuition for ALL college students at state schools. Why? Shouldn't affluent folks who send kids to state schools...many do...pay the fulll load?). 

So we got Hillary. And Hillary forgot all about the working folks who are, for whatever reason, frightened, discouraged, feeling hopeless, and looking for change...any change that might bring back jobs that can support a family. 

Hillary wasn't crooked. Isn't crooked. Hillary was not only unaware but about as exciting as watching paint dry. 

So yeah, the idots who gave us Hillary. 

Now look what we have.
"Free" college for all?  And this from the crowd that thinks itself the "smartest" bunch around?

Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk

Per usual you are a day late and a dollar short.

Thiis was suggested by Bernie Sanders. 

He lost. 

Most "Liberals" opposed it, while supporting the idea that free higher education for deserving lower income people might be a good idea.
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#27
(12-06-2016, 10:13 AM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(12-06-2016, 10:05 AM)capitalist pig Wrote:
(12-05-2016, 03:19 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(12-05-2016, 02:59 PM)GPnative Wrote:
(12-05-2016, 02:56 PM)Valuesize Wrote: They're not harmless. Idiots like him are who put Trump in office.

Nope, the idiots who gave Hillary the nomination on a silver platter are who put Trump in office.

I've been thinking a lot about that. Seems she was "ordained", that is was a forgone conclusion that having elected our first black president we would then elect our first woman president. 

Then Bernie Sanders reared up and upset the apple cart. I liked a lot of what Bernie said. I just could not support a guy who was not just an over the top liberal but who really did espouse true Socialist programs. (For instance: Free tuition for ALL college students at state schools. Why? Shouldn't affluent folks who send kids to state schools...many do...pay the fulll load?). 

So we got Hillary. And Hillary forgot all about the working folks who are, for whatever reason, frightened, discouraged, feeling hopeless, and looking for change...any change that might bring back jobs that can support a family. 

Hillary wasn't crooked. Isn't crooked. Hillary was not only unaware but about as exciting as watching paint dry. 

So yeah, the idots who gave us Hillary. 

Now look what we have.
"Free" college for all?  And this from the crowd that thinks itself the "smartest" bunch around?

Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk

Per usual you are a day late and a dollar short.

Thiis was suggested by Bernie Sanders. 

He lost. 

Most "Liberals" opposed it, while supporting the idea that free higher education for deserving lower income people might be a good idea.

Hillary supported it......

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/college/
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#28
For anyone else who is enjoying the despair and suffering of these morally and intellectually superior, miserable and forlorn Hillary Clinton supporters (like wonky), check this out:


Quote:How I Ended Up In A Psych Ward On Election Night
Note: Post contains sensitive content regarding suicide.

I found out Donald Trump had won the Electoral College while midstream in providing a urine sample for the emergency psychiatric staff of a New York City public hospital. The unlockable bathroom door in this unescapable wing was ajar, and I could hear the victorious Mike Pence’s sinister Sunday-school baritone taunting me with the truth from the hallway television.
For the preceding witching hours of election night, I had lain in a fetal position amidst a cast of anonymous men nursing their own crises, my hands clasped tightly over my ears. It wasn’t that I minded the howls of the guy nearby who was shackled to his cot and monitored by an unimpressed brood of policemen. Instead, I wanted to spare myself any word of the far greater insanity unfolding beyond the hospital walls.
Drained of tears, too tired to sleep, I stared at the fluorescent ceiling lights —which, indifferent to our suffering, remained on throughout the night — and endured the passing time by willing my thoughts to vanish into the dull glow. For a second, I imagined someone would burst in and proclaim, “It’s all right, Hillary won!” and I would bound out of bed, awoken from this nightmare.
This was all just a dream, right?
A while before, during the final hour of November 8, I had committed myself to institutional psychiatric care. A generation or two ago they would have said I was suffering a nervous breakdown: catatonic, plagued by involuntary jerking motions (my head furiously shaking “No! ”), speech patterns disjointed, weeping uncontrollably.
Terror drove me to this interrupted state. I was afraid for the nation, for the stigmatized and oppressed. I was also afraid for my own life. Because the values and principles I hold dear felt fatally incompatible with the hate and bigotry that Trumpism had come to stand for. I did not want to live in a world that would elect such a man as president.
I tumbled from quite the perch of high expectations. An official “Hillblazer,” I raised $187,000 for Hillary Clinton and down-ballot Democrats, mostly by selling tickets to events headlined by first-name-basis gay icons — Cher, Barbra, Hillary herself. (I was at the September gala when she dropped the “deplorables” line.) I canvassed in New York for our state’s primary and in Pennsylvania during the general. I phone banked, I recruited. To social media, I became The Hillary Guy, famous for my ever-buoyant posts and pictures about my candidate of choice.
I capped it all off by marshaling a rotating brigade of 22 out-of-town campaign volunteers during a four-day door-knocking effort in Philadelphia leading into Election Day. So feverish was my commitment that I embarked on the exhausting long weekend only a week into a shaky recovery from an emergency appendectomy.
My fundraising scored me the hottest ticket in town: entrance to the VIP wing of the would-be election Victory Party at the Javits Center in Manhattan. (It has a glass ceiling!) I bounded into the space at 6 o’clock in a frolic of an outfit: a red belt, white skinny jeans, and a blue Hillary-as-Rosie-the-Riveter T-shirt, my hair lavishly coiffed into a confident pompadour.
At first the sprawling party was a lark. I hobnobbed and table hopped. I couldn’t wait for a catharsis 25 years in the making. My only concern was the inevitable hangover.
Then came the 9 o’clock hour. Results from battleground states trickled in and an incredulous anxiety took hold. I left the VIP party area for a spell and stood with the expectant crowd before the elaborate victory speech stage. Staring saucer-eyed at the CNN screen above the set, I began to worry that my conspicuous outfit made me a sitting duck for the army of television cameras.
Sure enough, just as I bolted back to the VIP area, I got a text from a worried friend who had spotted me on MSNBC. “Are you alright?” he asked.
The sight of the huddled masses of party-goers stooped nervously over their cell phones was so unbearably foreboding, I escaped into a stairwell. There, the past year of my life caught up with me: the sudden death of my dearest friend’s fiancé, followed by the sudden death of my dearest cousin’s husband; my broken heart over a guy who didn’t share my feelings for him; a hobbling sports injury; the steady march of deadlines in my work as a science journalist; chronic migraines; major abdominal surgery; and of course the gnawing stress of the presidential campaign, ever driven by the fear that an unhinged demagogue would rise to power.
I texted a flare to my friend and plus-one, Sean, who soon appeared in the stairwell and cradled me in my hysterics. We kept in touch with a therapist friend of mine, Austin, through phone and text. Austin strongly urged me to leave the party. Hearing that I was suicidal, he proposed that I have myself committed.
Sean and I were among the first to leave the Javits Center — we fled, really — at about 10:30 that evening. I couldn’t bear to see the party devolve into a wake.
By around four o’clock the following morning, I was so lonesome in my emergency psych wing cot, I got up to see if the man sitting over by the dreaded television would talk to me.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/my-p...fiaj9ssjor

And, of course, it goes on and on...
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#29
(12-06-2016, 11:05 AM)SFLiberal Wrote:
(12-06-2016, 10:13 AM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(12-06-2016, 10:05 AM)capitalist pig Wrote:
(12-05-2016, 03:19 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(12-05-2016, 02:59 PM)GPnative Wrote: Nope, the idiots who gave Hillary the nomination on a silver platter are who put Trump in office.

I've been thinking a lot about that. Seems she was "ordained", that is was a forgone conclusion that having elected our first black president we would then elect our first woman president. 

Then Bernie Sanders reared up and upset the apple cart. I liked a lot of what Bernie said. I just could not support a guy who was not just an over the top liberal but who really did espouse true Socialist programs. (For instance: Free tuition for ALL college students at state schools. Why? Shouldn't affluent folks who send kids to state schools...many do...pay the fulll load?). 

So we got Hillary. And Hillary forgot all about the working folks who are, for whatever reason, frightened, discouraged, feeling hopeless, and looking for change...any change that might bring back jobs that can support a family. 

Hillary wasn't crooked. Isn't crooked. Hillary was not only unaware but about as exciting as watching paint dry. 

So yeah, the idots who gave us Hillary. 

Now look what we have.
"Free" college for all?  And this from the crowd that thinks itself the "smartest" bunch around?

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Per usual you are a day late and a dollar short.

Thiis was suggested by Bernie Sanders. 

He lost. 

Most "Liberals" opposed it, while supporting the idea that free higher education for deserving lower income people might be a good idea.

Hillary supported it......

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/college/

Well, kinda. 
From the link YOU POSTED:
  • Every student should have the option to graduate from a public college or university in their state without taking on any student debt. By 2021, families with income up to $125,000 will pay no tuition at in-state four-year public colleges and universities. And from the beginning, every student from a family making $85,000 a year or less will be able to go to an in-state four-year public college or university without paying tuition.


    So, notice the disclaimer there. After $125,000 families would have to pay tuition. Rich folks WILL pay. So Hillary DID NOT support the plan Sanders suggested. 
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#30
(12-06-2016, 10:13 AM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(12-06-2016, 10:05 AM)capitalist pig Wrote:
(12-05-2016, 03:19 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(12-05-2016, 02:59 PM)GPnative Wrote:
(12-05-2016, 02:56 PM)Valuesize Wrote: They're not harmless. Idiots like him are who put Trump in office.

Nope, the idiots who gave Hillary the nomination on a silver platter are who put Trump in office.

I've been thinking a lot about that. Seems she was "ordained", that is was a forgone conclusion that having elected our first black president we would then elect our first woman president. 

Then Bernie Sanders reared up and upset the apple cart. I liked a lot of what Bernie said. I just could not support a guy who was not just an over the top liberal but who really did espouse true Socialist programs. (For instance: Free tuition for ALL college students at state schools. Why? Shouldn't affluent folks who send kids to state schools...many do...pay the fulll load?). 

So we got Hillary. And Hillary forgot all about the working folks who are, for whatever reason, frightened, discouraged, feeling hopeless, and looking for change...any change that might bring back jobs that can support a family. 

Hillary wasn't crooked. Isn't crooked. Hillary was not only unaware but about as exciting as watching paint dry. 

So yeah, the idots who gave us Hillary. 

Now look what we have.
"Free" college for all?  And this from the crowd that thinks itself the "smartest" bunch around?

Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk

Per usual you are a day late and a dollar short.

Thiis was suggested by Bernie Sanders. 

He lost. 

Most "Liberals" opposed it, while supporting the idea that free higher education for deserving lower income people might be a good idea.
I'm confused about the " free" part. You mean free to those making under 125,000? That's not free, that's redistribution of wealth... hmm what happens if the student gets their " free" education and then makes over 125,000 a year, do they pay back? Why is it okay to make someone pay for another's education? I now make over 6 figures a year, should I have to pay? I made well under 125,000 for over 20 years of my working life, but with wise decisions,planning and working mega hours I now work far less and make far more. Why should I be penalized?? I have never been on any sort of government program or received any " free" stuff of any sort. Tell me why this is fair? I hire people that are content to do the bare minimum to get by, ( many of the population is this way) yet I worked huge hours to get ahead. Why am I responsible to help pay for them or others that do not have the same work ethic? I'll give a little fact, most poor people are poor because of their own poor choices. Period!! You can not make the lives of one group of people better by stealing from others. There is huge opportunity yet in this country ( in spite of the government and it's getting harder all the time) it's available to anyone with motivation and drive. This cannot be given to another with "free" stuff . It will never work long term.

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#31
(12-06-2016, 08:33 PM)capitalist pig Wrote:
(12-06-2016, 10:13 AM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(12-06-2016, 10:05 AM)capitalist pig Wrote:
(12-05-2016, 03:19 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(12-05-2016, 02:59 PM)GPnative Wrote: Nope, the idiots who gave Hillary the nomination on a silver platter are who put Trump in office.

I've been thinking a lot about that. Seems she was "ordained", that is was a forgone conclusion that having elected our first black president we would then elect our first woman president. 

Then Bernie Sanders reared up and upset the apple cart. I liked a lot of what Bernie said. I just could not support a guy who was not just an over the top liberal but who really did espouse true Socialist programs. (For instance: Free tuition for ALL college students at state schools. Why? Shouldn't affluent folks who send kids to state schools...many do...pay the fulll load?). 

So we got Hillary. And Hillary forgot all about the working folks who are, for whatever reason, frightened, discouraged, feeling hopeless, and looking for change...any change that might bring back jobs that can support a family. 

Hillary wasn't crooked. Isn't crooked. Hillary was not only unaware but about as exciting as watching paint dry. 

So yeah, the idots who gave us Hillary. 

Now look what we have.
"Free" college for all?  And this from the crowd that thinks itself the "smartest" bunch around?

Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk

Per usual you are a day late and a dollar short.

Thiis was suggested by Bernie Sanders. 

He lost. 

Most "Liberals" opposed it, while supporting the idea that free higher education for deserving lower income people might be a good idea.
I'm confused about the " free" part.   You mean free to those making under 125,000? That's not free,  that's redistribution of wealth...  hmm what happens if the student gets their " free" education and then makes over 125,000 a year, do they pay back? Why is it okay to make someone pay for another's education?  I now make over 6 figures a year, should I have to pay? I made well under 125,000 for over 20 years of my working life, but with wise decisions,planning and working mega hours I now work far less and make far more. Why should I be penalized?? I have never been on any sort of government program or received any " free" stuff of any sort. Tell me why this is fair?  I hire people that are content to do the bare minimum to get by, ( many of the population is this way) yet I worked huge hours to get ahead. Why am I responsible to help pay for them or others that do not have the same work ethic?  I'll give a little fact, most poor people are poor because of their own poor choices. Period!!  You can not make the lives of one group of people better by stealing from others. There is huge opportunity yet in this country  ( in spite of the government and it's getting harder all the time) it's available to anyone with motivation and drive.  This cannot be given to another with "free" stuff . It will never work long term.

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First things first: That you make over 6 figures a year means that you DO pay. Your taxes, in part, pay for state education. So, if someone not wealthy is provided a "free" education, we can expect that education to most often give that person an income that will provide taxes to, again, support state education. 

The rest of your "rant" about stealing from others I have no rebuttal for. If you really feel that most poor people are just lazy, you are IMHO delusional. Of course some poor people are lazy. There are lazy people in all groups of society. That simple fact does not support your arguement. 

A personal note: I too worked LOT'S of hours. However, because I mismanaged the early years of my adult life I was unable to get a "higher" education. So, as a "blue collar worker" I worked hard, and all the overtime I could get. (Once worked 57 days without a day off)*  I never made "six figures". I simply did not have those necessary skills to become an entrepreneur. So, working hard, in and of it's self won't make one wealthy. 

*The 57 straight days I worked was my choice. As a union member in IBEW the company could not force me to work a stretch like that.
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#32
Of course it's a "rant" according to you. Anyone that disagrees with the left is a "rant" etc. And the funny thing is you agreed with me and then told me I was wrong. ( you mismanaged your early life) I'll use a simple term. Poor choices and you are a example of this. Most poor are poor because of poor choices and I can give million examples of this. You also fall for the line that higher education will equal better pay. Not necessarily. Hard work does not equal higher pay either. I never went past high school and have done very well. It's all about wise choices and drive. Period!!! Making money is a talent many are very poor at it and some are very good at it. And yes taking money from one group to give to another is stealing. I'm sure you have more then some out there, I support taking more from you and giving it to others. It's only fair.... ( take a look at the great War on poverty started by Johnson in the sixties, the fact are there for all to see go check it out if you have the intellectual honesty to do so. Failure. ) a little tip,57 days straight, I'm sorry to tell you if you think that's the definition of working hard you have no understanding of "drive" that is hardly a blip in what it sometimes takes to succeed.... "lazy" I never used the word once in my reference to the poor.

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#33
Hey wonky take a look at this book Millionaire Next Door written by Thomas T Stanley and William D Danko both Ph.D take a look it's very interesting based on a huge study.


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#34
(12-07-2016, 09:37 AM)capitalist pig Wrote: Hey wonky take a look at this book  Millionaire Next Door     written by Thomas T Stanley  and William D Danko  both Ph.D     take a look it's very interesting based on a huge study.


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If I can squeeze out the time I'll make an effort to read "Millionaire Next Door". I found a summation on "Business Insider" and it looks like it has all the values I admire. It would be great if adopting all those traits would lead to monetary success. Life is far more complex however. (Excerpt from Business Insider at the end of this post) 

As to you post just previoous to this:

I apologize for suggesting you post was a "rant". While I feel many of your previous posts have been rants, this one was more thoughtful and expressed personal, complete, and concrete views. I appreciate that you expressed clearly things that can lead to discussion rather than "you said, I said". 

I don't want to take the time to attempt to rebut everything you have written: First, I doubt we will ever find common ground and more than that checking things off as in a list will only bog down the conversation. 

I would like to make clear my confession that I mismanaged my early life and how it effected the arc of my life. You seem to suggest that I "failed" and am example of what happens when people make poor choices. Like millions of others, I may have limited my achievements but my conduct has not cost my fellow citizens a penney. The only money I've ever taken from the government (that I can recall) is the tax exemption for the interest I paid on the mortgage of my house. Everything I have (and shared with my family) I have worked for. 

And, while I'm well aware of the freedom money can provide, I've never been all that sorry that I remained a "Union Guy" and so never achieved great wealth. I've been sucessful by most standards and always responsible enough to always "carry my own weight". So, it not ALL about money. It's about not being a burden to others (including our fellow citizens) that defines, in part, our civic character. 

In short, I read in your post a suggestion that "Liberals" are not responsible and the wealthy "pay the freight" for them. I think my own example proves you wrong, and while I know only too well we have far too many people in this country who "mooch" from us (the people) I don't think they are all liberals or that Liberal policies have been responsible for the conduct of "the whole". 

By the way, as a Liberal I have many Conservative values. (If in fact they must be considered Conservative). Personal responsibility, for instance, and many others. I remain "Liberal" because I feel institutions (including government) should play a part in the lives of our citizens and we all benefit from shared efforts. 

Forgive me if I've missed any main points you raised, and feel free to fire back and bring me to task. The value of this space is that we do get to share ideas, ideals, and many points of view. We may never agree, but if we are capable of civil diaglog that allows us to share information, we have "raised the bar" at least a bit. 

From Business Insider:

1. He always spends less than he earns.  In fact his mantra is, over the long run, you’re better off if you strive to be anonymously rich rather than deceptively poor.
2. He knows that patience is a virtue. The odds are you won’t become a millionaire overnight.  If you’re like him, your wealth will be accumulated gradually by diligently saving your money over multiple decades.
3.  When you go to his modest three-bed two-bath house, you’re going to be drinking Folgers instead of Starbucks.  And if you need a lift, well, you’re going to get a ride in his ten-year-old economy sedan.  And if you think that makes him cheap, ask him if he cares.  (He doesn’t.)
4. He pays off his credit cards in full every month.  He’s smart enough to understand that if he can’t afford to pay cash for something, then he can’t afford it.
5. He realized early on that money does not buy happiness.  If you’re looking for nirvana, you need to focus on attaining financial freedom.
6. He never forgets that financial freedom is a state of mind that comes from being debt free.  Best of all, it can be attained regardless of your income level.
7. He knows that getting a second job not only increases the size of your bank account quicker but it also keeps you busy – and being busy makes it difficult to spend what you already have.
8. He understands that money is like a toddler; it is incapable of managing itself.  After all, you can’t expect your money to grow and mature as it should without some form of credible money management.
9. He’s a big believer in paying yourself first. Paying yourself first is an essential tenet of personal finance and a great way to build your savings and instill financial discipline.
10. Although it’s possible to get rich if you spend your life making a living doing something you don’t enjoy, he wonders why you do.  Life is too short.
11.  He knows that failing to plan is the same as planning to fail.  He also knows that the few millionaires that reached that milestone without a plan got there only because of dumb luck.   It’s not enough to simply declare that you want to be financially free.
12. When it came time to set his savings goals, he wasn’t afraid to think big.  Financial success demands that you have a vision that is significantly larger than you can currently deliver upon.
13. Over time, he found out that hard work can often help make up for a lot of financial mistakes – and you will make financial mistakes.
14. He realizes that stuff happens, that’s why you’re a fool if you don’t insure yourself against risk. Remember that the potential for bankruptcy is always just around the corner and can be triggered from multiple sources: the death of the family’s key bread winner, divorce, or disability that leads to a loss of work.
15. He understands that time is an ally of the young.  He was fortunate enough to begin saving in his twenties so he could take maximum advantage of the power of compounding interest on his nest egg.
16. He knows that you can’t spend what you don’t see.  You should use automatic paycheck deductions to build up your retirement and other savings accounts.  As your salary increases you can painlessly increase the size of those deductions.
17. Even though he has a job that he loves, he doesn’t have to work anymore because everything he owns is paid for – and has been for years.
18. He’s not impressed that you drive an over-priced luxury car and live in a McMansion that’s two sizes too big for your family of four.
19. After six months of asking, he finally quit waiting for you to return his pruning shears.  He broke down and bought himself a new pair last month.  There’s no hard feelings though; he can afford it.
So that’s it.  Now you know what your millionaire neighbor won’t tell you.
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#35
(12-07-2016, 10:43 AM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(12-07-2016, 09:37 AM)capitalist pig Wrote: Hey wonky take a look at this book  Millionaire Next Door     written by Thomas T Stanley  and William D Danko  both Ph.D     take a look it's very interesting based on a huge study.


Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk

If I can squeeze out the time I'll make an effort to read "Millionaire Next Door". I found a summation on "Business Insider" and it looks like it has all the values I admire. It would be great if adopting all those traits would lead to monetary success. Life is far more complex however. (Excerpt from Business Insider at the end of this post) 

As to you post just previoous to this:

I apologize for suggesting you post was a "rant". While I feel many of your previous posts have been rants, this one was more thoughtful and expressed personal, complete, and concrete views. I appreciate that you expressed clearly things that can lead to discussion rather than "you said, I said". 

I don't want to take the time to attempt to rebut everything you have written: First, I doubt we will ever find common ground and more than that checking things off as in a list will only bog down the conversation. 

I would like to make clear my confession that I mismanaged my early life and how it effected the arc of my life. You seem to suggest that I "failed" and am example of what happens when people make poor choices. Like millions of others, I may have limited my achievements but my conduct has not cost my fellow citizens a penney. The only money I've ever taken from the government (that I can recall) is the tax exemption for the interest I paid on the mortgage of my house. Everything I have (and shared with my family) I have worked for. 

And, while I'm well aware of the freedom money can provide, I've never been all that sorry that I remained a "Union Guy" and so never achieved great wealth. I've been sucessful by most standards and always responsible enough to always "carry my own weight". So, it not ALL about money. It's about not being a burden to others (including our fellow citizens) that defines, in part, our civic character. 

In short, I read in your post a suggestion that "Liberals" are not responsible and the wealthy "pay the freight" for them. I think my own example proves you wrong, and while I know only too well we have far too many people in this country who "mooch" from us (the people) I don't think they are all liberals or that Liberal policies have been responsible for the conduct of "the whole". 

By the way, as a Liberal I have many Conservative values. (If in fact they must be considered Conservative). Personal responsibility, for instance, and many others. I remain "Liberal" because I feel institutions (including government) should play a part in the lives of our citizens and we all benefit from shared efforts. 

Forgive me if I've missed any main points you raised, and feel free to fire back and bring me to task. The value of this space is that we do get to share ideas, ideals, and many points of view. We may never agree, but if we are capable of civil diaglog that allows us to share information, we have "raised the bar" at least a bit. 

From Business Insider:

1. He always spends less than he earns.  In fact his mantra is, over the long run, you’re better off if you strive to be anonymously rich rather than deceptively poor.
2. He knows that patience is a virtue. The odds are you won’t become a millionaire overnight.  If you’re like him, your wealth will be accumulated gradually by diligently saving your money over multiple decades.
3.  When you go to his modest three-bed two-bath house, you’re going to be drinking Folgers instead of Starbucks.  And if you need a lift, well, you’re going to get a ride in his ten-year-old economy sedan.  And if you think that makes him cheap, ask him if he cares.  (He doesn’t.)
4. He pays off his credit cards in full every month.  He’s smart enough to understand that if he can’t afford to pay cash for something, then he can’t afford it.
5. He realized early on that money does not buy happiness.  If you’re looking for nirvana, you need to focus on attaining financial freedom.
6. He never forgets that financial freedom is a state of mind that comes from being debt free.  Best of all, it can be attained regardless of your income level.
7. He knows that getting a second job not only increases the size of your bank account quicker but it also keeps you busy – and being busy makes it difficult to spend what you already have.
8. He understands that money is like a toddler; it is incapable of managing itself.  After all, you can’t expect your money to grow and mature as it should without some form of credible money management.
9. He’s a big believer in paying yourself first. Paying yourself first is an essential tenet of personal finance and a great way to build your savings and instill financial discipline.
10. Although it’s possible to get rich if you spend your life making a living doing something you don’t enjoy, he wonders why you do.  Life is too short.
11.  He knows that failing to plan is the same as planning to fail.  He also knows that the few millionaires that reached that milestone without a plan got there only because of dumb luck.   It’s not enough to simply declare that you want to be financially free.
12. When it came time to set his savings goals, he wasn’t afraid to think big.  Financial success demands that you have a vision that is significantly larger than you can currently deliver upon.
13. Over time, he found out that hard work can often help make up for a lot of financial mistakes – and you will make financial mistakes.
14. He realizes that stuff happens, that’s why you’re a fool if you don’t insure yourself against risk. Remember that the potential for bankruptcy is always just around the corner and can be triggered from multiple sources: the death of the family’s key bread winner, divorce, or disability that leads to a loss of work.
15. He understands that time is an ally of the young.  He was fortunate enough to begin saving in his twenties so he could take maximum advantage of the power of compounding interest on his nest egg.
16. He knows that you can’t spend what you don’t see.  You should use automatic paycheck deductions to build up your retirement and other savings accounts.  As your salary increases you can painlessly increase the size of those deductions.
17. Even though he has a job that he loves, he doesn’t have to work anymore because everything he owns is paid for – and has been for years.
18. He’s not impressed that you drive an over-priced luxury car and live in a McMansion that’s two sizes too big for your family of four.
19. After six months of asking, he finally quit waiting for you to return his pruning shears.  He broke down and bought himself a new pair last month.  There’s no hard feelings though; he can afford it.
So that’s it.  Now you know what your millionaire neighbor won’t tell you.
It's all good. I only skimmed what you said as I am working/ playing in the shop today and need to get stuff done. I will take some time to read in detail and I do not consider how much money one makes as a marker of success. I have grown weary of the none stop cry of "free" stuff for the " lessor " of us. As I said I have employees that are not interested in pushing harder then the bare minimum to survive.(that's fine) I just don't think I or you, or anyone else should have to be for "free" stuff for them or their kids. I hate to say it but the sad truth is poor choices make for a tough financial life and most ( not all ) fall into this category. I ran into a old customer/ fellow business owner at taco Tuesday yesterday. He has one of the larger construction outfits in the valley, you would know the name. We talked about two things, the red tape and regulation killing businesses and no one wanting to work. ( there is a ton of work for those wanting to work) his exact words were.. " all the young men want to do these days is sit at home and grow pot ,I am having huge problems getting people to work". Again poor choices for young men. I submit how is this going to work out for most of these guys? I'll try to be a "little" nicer as I tend to like to pull the chain of those that deserve it and it's easy to do as some have rampant hypocrisy
on display in my opinion.. The point of the book I liked best is the misconception of who is a millionaire and what it took to get there. Take care..

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Reply
#36
(12-07-2016, 02:00 PM)capitalist pig Wrote:
(12-07-2016, 10:43 AM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(12-07-2016, 09:37 AM)capitalist pig Wrote: Hey wonky take a look at this book  Millionaire Next Door     written by Thomas T Stanley  and William D Danko  both Ph.D     take a look it's very interesting based on a huge study.


Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk

If I can squeeze out the time I'll make an effort to read "Millionaire Next Door". I found a summation on "Business Insider" and it looks like it has all the values I admire. It would be great if adopting all those traits would lead to monetary success. Life is far more complex however. (Excerpt from Business Insider at the end of this post) 

As to you post just previoous to this:

I apologize for suggesting you post was a "rant". While I feel many of your previous posts have been rants, this one was more thoughtful and expressed personal, complete, and concrete views. I appreciate that you expressed clearly things that can lead to discussion rather than "you said, I said". 

I don't want to take the time to attempt to rebut everything you have written: First, I doubt we will ever find common ground and more than that checking things off as in a list will only bog down the conversation. 

I would like to make clear my confession that I mismanaged my early life and how it effected the arc of my life. You seem to suggest that I "failed" and am example of what happens when people make poor choices. Like millions of others, I may have limited my achievements but my conduct has not cost my fellow citizens a penney. The only money I've ever taken from the government (that I can recall) is the tax exemption for the interest I paid on the mortgage of my house. Everything I have (and shared with my family) I have worked for. 

And, while I'm well aware of the freedom money can provide, I've never been all that sorry that I remained a "Union Guy" and so never achieved great wealth. I've been sucessful by most standards and always responsible enough to always "carry my own weight". So, it not ALL about money. It's about not being a burden to others (including our fellow citizens) that defines, in part, our civic character. 

In short, I read in your post a suggestion that "Liberals" are not responsible and the wealthy "pay the freight" for them. I think my own example proves you wrong, and while I know only too well we have far too many people in this country who "mooch" from us (the people) I don't think they are all liberals or that Liberal policies have been responsible for the conduct of "the whole". 

By the way, as a Liberal I have many Conservative values. (If in fact they must be considered Conservative). Personal responsibility, for instance, and many others. I remain "Liberal" because I feel institutions (including government) should play a part in the lives of our citizens and we all benefit from shared efforts. 

Forgive me if I've missed any main points you raised, and feel free to fire back and bring me to task. The value of this space is that we do get to share ideas, ideals, and many points of view. We may never agree, but if we are capable of civil diaglog that allows us to share information, we have "raised the bar" at least a bit. 

From Business Insider:

1. He always spends less than he earns.  In fact his mantra is, over the long run, you’re better off if you strive to be anonymously rich rather than deceptively poor.
2. He knows that patience is a virtue. The odds are you won’t become a millionaire overnight.  If you’re like him, your wealth will be accumulated gradually by diligently saving your money over multiple decades.
3.  When you go to his modest three-bed two-bath house, you’re going to be drinking Folgers instead of Starbucks.  And if you need a lift, well, you’re going to get a ride in his ten-year-old economy sedan.  And if you think that makes him cheap, ask him if he cares.  (He doesn’t.)
4. He pays off his credit cards in full every month.  He’s smart enough to understand that if he can’t afford to pay cash for something, then he can’t afford it.
5. He realized early on that money does not buy happiness.  If you’re looking for nirvana, you need to focus on attaining financial freedom.
6. He never forgets that financial freedom is a state of mind that comes from being debt free.  Best of all, it can be attained regardless of your income level.
7. He knows that getting a second job not only increases the size of your bank account quicker but it also keeps you busy – and being busy makes it difficult to spend what you already have.
8. He understands that money is like a toddler; it is incapable of managing itself.  After all, you can’t expect your money to grow and mature as it should without some form of credible money management.
9. He’s a big believer in paying yourself first. Paying yourself first is an essential tenet of personal finance and a great way to build your savings and instill financial discipline.
10. Although it’s possible to get rich if you spend your life making a living doing something you don’t enjoy, he wonders why you do.  Life is too short.
11.  He knows that failing to plan is the same as planning to fail.  He also knows that the few millionaires that reached that milestone without a plan got there only because of dumb luck.   It’s not enough to simply declare that you want to be financially free.
12. When it came time to set his savings goals, he wasn’t afraid to think big.  Financial success demands that you have a vision that is significantly larger than you can currently deliver upon.
13. Over time, he found out that hard work can often help make up for a lot of financial mistakes – and you will make financial mistakes.
14. He realizes that stuff happens, that’s why you’re a fool if you don’t insure yourself against risk. Remember that the potential for bankruptcy is always just around the corner and can be triggered from multiple sources: the death of the family’s key bread winner, divorce, or disability that leads to a loss of work.
15. He understands that time is an ally of the young.  He was fortunate enough to begin saving in his twenties so he could take maximum advantage of the power of compounding interest on his nest egg.
16. He knows that you can’t spend what you don’t see.  You should use automatic paycheck deductions to build up your retirement and other savings accounts.  As your salary increases you can painlessly increase the size of those deductions.
17. Even though he has a job that he loves, he doesn’t have to work anymore because everything he owns is paid for – and has been for years.
18. He’s not impressed that you drive an over-priced luxury car and live in a McMansion that’s two sizes too big for your family of four.
19. After six months of asking, he finally quit waiting for you to return his pruning shears.  He broke down and bought himself a new pair last month.  There’s no hard feelings though; he can afford it.
So that’s it.  Now you know what your millionaire neighbor won’t tell you.
It's all good. I only skimmed what you said as I am working/ playing in the shop today and need to get stuff done.  I will take some time to read in detail and I do not consider how much money one makes as a marker of success. I have grown weary of the none stop cry of "free" stuff for the " lessor " of us.  As I said I have employees that are not interested in pushing harder then the bare minimum to survive.(that's fine)  I just  don't think I  or you, or anyone else should have to be for "free" stuff for them or their kids.  I hate to say it but the sad truth is poor choices make for a tough financial life and most  ( not all ) fall into this category. I ran into a old customer/ fellow business owner at taco Tuesday yesterday. He has one of the larger construction outfits in the valley, you would know the name. We talked about two things,  the red tape and regulation killing businesses and no one wanting to  work. ( there is a ton of work for those wanting to work) his exact words were.. " all the young men want to do these days is sit at home and grow pot ,I am having huge problems getting people to work".  Again poor choices for young men. I submit how is this going to work out for most of these guys? I'll try to be a "little" nicer as I tend to like to pull the chain of those that deserve it and it's easy to do as some have rampant hypocrisy
on display in my opinion..   take care.

Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk

Hey, thanks for taking time to respond. I envy you your time in the shop! I'm dealing with some "health issues" (not interesting) and so sit far too long and have time to post junk all day. Don't bother responding to that post...it's only stuff I've repeated about a million times. 
Strange...we actually agree about a lot of things. But, we seem to walk on differnt sides of the road. That we can exchange points of view and the differences we hold to, is the stuff that makes our democracy work (I think). 
Again, thanks for the exchanges we've had. I see you so much differntly now. Yeah...I know: You still see me as that "tax and spend Nancy Polosi Liberal who would tax you into the ground". Maybe not. Hey I voted for Alan DeBoer for State Senate rather the the Democrat who ran. 

Take care. Thanks for taking time to exchange ideas.
Reply
#37
(12-07-2016, 02:18 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(12-07-2016, 02:00 PM)capitalist pig Wrote:
(12-07-2016, 10:43 AM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(12-07-2016, 09:37 AM)capitalist pig Wrote: Hey wonky take a look at this book  Millionaire Next Door     written by Thomas T Stanley  and William D Danko  both Ph.D     take a look it's very interesting based on a huge study.


Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk

If I can squeeze out the time I'll make an effort to read "Millionaire Next Door". I found a summation on "Business Insider" and it looks like it has all the values I admire. It would be great if adopting all those traits would lead to monetary success. Life is far more complex however. (Excerpt from Business Insider at the end of this post) 

As to you post just previoous to this:

I apologize for suggesting you post was a "rant". While I feel many of your previous posts have been rants, this one was more thoughtful and expressed personal, complete, and concrete views. I appreciate that you expressed clearly things that can lead to discussion rather than "you said, I said". 

I don't want to take the time to attempt to rebut everything you have written: First, I doubt we will ever find common ground and more than that checking things off as in a list will only bog down the conversation. 

I would like to make clear my confession that I mismanaged my early life and how it effected the arc of my life. You seem to suggest that I "failed" and am example of what happens when people make poor choices. Like millions of others, I may have limited my achievements but my conduct has not cost my fellow citizens a penney. The only money I've ever taken from the government (that I can recall) is the tax exemption for the interest I paid on the mortgage of my house. Everything I have (and shared with my family) I have worked for. 

And, while I'm well aware of the freedom money can provide, I've never been all that sorry that I remained a "Union Guy" and so never achieved great wealth. I've been sucessful by most standards and always responsible enough to always "carry my own weight". So, it not ALL about money. It's about not being a burden to others (including our fellow citizens) that defines, in part, our civic character. 

In short, I read in your post a suggestion that "Liberals" are not responsible and the wealthy "pay the freight" for them. I think my own example proves you wrong, and while I know only too well we have far too many people in this country who "mooch" from us (the people) I don't think they are all liberals or that Liberal policies have been responsible for the conduct of "the whole". 

By the way, as a Liberal I have many Conservative values. (If in fact they must be considered Conservative). Personal responsibility, for instance, and many others. I remain "Liberal" because I feel institutions (including government) should play a part in the lives of our citizens and we all benefit from shared efforts. 

Forgive me if I've missed any main points you raised, and feel free to fire back and bring me to task. The value of this space is that we do get to share ideas, ideals, and many points of view. We may never agree, but if we are capable of civil diaglog that allows us to share information, we have "raised the bar" at least a bit. 

From Business Insider:

1. He always spends less than he earns.  In fact his mantra is, over the long run, you’re better off if you strive to be anonymously rich rather than deceptively poor.
2. He knows that patience is a virtue. The odds are you won’t become a millionaire overnight.  If you’re like him, your wealth will be accumulated gradually by diligently saving your money over multiple decades.
3.  When you go to his modest three-bed two-bath house, you’re going to be drinking Folgers instead of Starbucks.  And if you need a lift, well, you’re going to get a ride in his ten-year-old economy sedan.  And if you think that makes him cheap, ask him if he cares.  (He doesn’t.)
4. He pays off his credit cards in full every month.  He’s smart enough to understand that if he can’t afford to pay cash for something, then he can’t afford it.
5. He realized early on that money does not buy happiness.  If you’re looking for nirvana, you need to focus on attaining financial freedom.
6. He never forgets that financial freedom is a state of mind that comes from being debt free.  Best of all, it can be attained regardless of your income level.
7. He knows that getting a second job not only increases the size of your bank account quicker but it also keeps you busy – and being busy makes it difficult to spend what you already have.
8. He understands that money is like a toddler; it is incapable of managing itself.  After all, you can’t expect your money to grow and mature as it should without some form of credible money management.
9. He’s a big believer in paying yourself first. Paying yourself first is an essential tenet of personal finance and a great way to build your savings and instill financial discipline.
10. Although it’s possible to get rich if you spend your life making a living doing something you don’t enjoy, he wonders why you do.  Life is too short.
11.  He knows that failing to plan is the same as planning to fail.  He also knows that the few millionaires that reached that milestone without a plan got there only because of dumb luck.   It’s not enough to simply declare that you want to be financially free.
12. When it came time to set his savings goals, he wasn’t afraid to think big.  Financial success demands that you have a vision that is significantly larger than you can currently deliver upon.
13. Over time, he found out that hard work can often help make up for a lot of financial mistakes – and you will make financial mistakes.
14. He realizes that stuff happens, that’s why you’re a fool if you don’t insure yourself against risk. Remember that the potential for bankruptcy is always just around the corner and can be triggered from multiple sources: the death of the family’s key bread winner, divorce, or disability that leads to a loss of work.
15. He understands that time is an ally of the young.  He was fortunate enough to begin saving in his twenties so he could take maximum advantage of the power of compounding interest on his nest egg.
16. He knows that you can’t spend what you don’t see.  You should use automatic paycheck deductions to build up your retirement and other savings accounts.  As your salary increases you can painlessly increase the size of those deductions.
17. Even though he has a job that he loves, he doesn’t have to work anymore because everything he owns is paid for – and has been for years.
18. He’s not impressed that you drive an over-priced luxury car and live in a McMansion that’s two sizes too big for your family of four.
19. After six months of asking, he finally quit waiting for you to return his pruning shears.  He broke down and bought himself a new pair last month.  There’s no hard feelings though; he can afford it.
So that’s it.  Now you know what your millionaire neighbor won’t tell you.
It's all good. I only skimmed what you said as I am working/ playing in the shop today and need to get stuff done.  I will take some time to read in detail and I do not consider how much money one makes as a marker of success. I have grown weary of the none stop cry of "free" stuff for the " lessor " of us.  As I said I have employees that are not interested in pushing harder then the bare minimum to survive.(that's fine)  I just  don't think I  or you, or anyone else should have to be for "free" stuff for them or their kids.  I hate to say it but the sad truth is poor choices make for a tough financial life and most  ( not all ) fall into this category. I ran into a old customer/ fellow business owner at taco Tuesday yesterday. He has one of the larger construction outfits in the valley, you would know the name. We talked about two things,  the red tape and regulation killing businesses and no one wanting to  work. ( there is a ton of work for those wanting to work) his exact words were.. " all the young men want to do these days is sit at home and grow pot ,I am having huge problems getting people to work".  Again poor choices for young men. I submit how is this going to work out for most of these guys? I'll try to be a "little" nicer as I tend to like to pull the chain of those that deserve it and it's easy to do as some have rampant hypocrisy
on display in my opinion..   take care.

Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk

Hey, thanks for taking time to respond. I envy you your time in the shop! I'm dealing with some "health issues" (not interesting) and so sit far too long and have time to post junk all day. Don't bother responding to that post...it's only stuff I've repeated about a million times. 
Strange...we actually agree about a lot of things. But, we seem to walk on differnt sides of the road. That we can exchange points of view and the differences we hold to, is the stuff that makes our democracy work (I think). 
Again, thanks for the exchanges we've had. I see you so much differntly now. Yeah...I know: You still see me as that "tax and spend Nancy Polosi Liberal who would tax you into the ground". Maybe not. Hey I voted for Alan DeBoer for State Senate rather the the Democrat who ran. 

Take care. Thanks for taking time to exchange ideas.
Lol to tell you the truth I see a bit of all sides. I'm still working/ playing in the shop and the factor just came on. ( I know many here will scream right wing propaganda. Whatever.... I have a lot of news on in the shop, Fox, CNN, msnbc,PBS, news max, etc etc) his talking points were very interesting and on the topic we are talking about. I'm sure you can find the clip online maybe tonight or tomorrow sometime. Take a listen, crazy, a few good points, right on the money? Sorry to hear you suffer from poor health but if there is a bright side at least you spend time debating arguing the issues as that is important and can be fun. Best wishes to you're health.

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