FATAL COLLISION ON INTERSTATE 5
#21
(07-05-2017, 04:29 PM)Cuzz Wrote:
(07-05-2017, 01:08 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(07-05-2017, 08:59 AM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(07-04-2017, 12:54 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(07-04-2017, 07:48 AM)Wonky3 Wrote: Big Grin Proving, yet again that a pause before an opinion can be a good thing. (Something I might want to learn myself). 

As TVguy's post above points out, we really don't know if suicides among Vets is really any higher than in the general population. But, we afford special status to those who go to far off places with strange sounding names in defense of our country. 
Now, let's pause again.
None of these Vets were drafted.
Exactly what are they defending? 
And now the shit-storm will start. I'm not suggesting these Vets should not be recognized for service to our country. I am however, suggesting that our national leaders may very well have (and continue) to involve us in wars that bleed our treasure and the young lives of those who choose to serve. 

I am about half way into "Hue 1968" by Mark Bowden (He who wrote Blackhawk down) and it's a cautionary tale of the really stupid decisions made by field grade officers and Washington politicians during the Tet offensive in Vietnam in 1968. A couple of years ago I was moved by "Fiasco" by Tom Ricks detailing our misadventure in Iraq. Read David Halberstram's "The Coldest Winter" about our missteps in Korea or his early book about Vietnam, "The Best and The Brightest", and we see a theme that is disquieting, at best. 

So, on this, the day we honor and celebrate our national independence, it might be good to reflect not only on the sacrifice of those who have served, but to learn all we can about the events that all too often led us the folly of unnecessary conflict. 

Syria awaits some kind of resolution. Let's hope our national leaders make good decisions about any engagement there and if it's necessary to send our troops that they have the full support of leadership that makes good and sound decisions avoiding the mistakes of the past. 

Happy Independence Day.

Funny how our veterans gained so much attention lately and the opinion that they don't get treated like they deserve is now mentioned so much.
Because why help a Syrian refugee when you have homeless veterans. Wink

I think you are onto something here. I have no problem with recognizing the efforts, and thanking those who serve in our military but I wonder if we don't "overpraise" military service and neglect those who serve in the Peace Corps, AmeriCorps, Doctors Without Borders, The Mormon missionaries ( Laughing) and others who serve "In The Fields Of The Lord".

I don't think you got my meaning. I'm saying that a LOT of people don't give a shit about how we treat our veterans.
They just say they do a LOT LATELY as a way to justify not helping war refugees.






Do any of those other groups put their lives on the line?

Actually, yes they sometimes do die, but not wholesale. I take your point though.
Yeah I thought about that fact that sometimes they do and sometimes they get killed by militants.
Even nuns.
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#22
(07-05-2017, 04:46 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(07-05-2017, 04:29 PM)Cuzz Wrote:
(07-05-2017, 01:08 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(07-05-2017, 08:59 AM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(07-04-2017, 12:54 PM)tvguy Wrote: Funny how our veterans gained so much attention lately and the opinion that they don't get treated like they deserve is now mentioned so much.
Because why help a Syrian refugee when you have homeless veterans. Wink

I think you are onto something here. I have no problem with recognizing the efforts, and thanking those who serve in our military but I wonder if we don't "overpraise" military service and neglect those who serve in the Peace Corps, AmeriCorps, Doctors Without Borders, The Mormon missionaries ( Laughing) and others who serve "In The Fields Of The Lord".

I don't think you got my meaning. I'm saying that a LOT of people don't give a shit about how we treat our veterans.
They just say they do a LOT LATELY as a way to justify not helping war refugees.






Do any of those other groups put their lives on the line?

Actually, yes they sometimes do die, but not wholesale. I take your point though.
Yeah I thought about that fact that sometimes they do and sometimes they get killed by militants.
Even nuns.

Yep. I don't have numbers, but I recall "Doctors without borders" getting hacked up in West Africa, other NGO's dying in Somalia, Christian missionary's murdered in Southeast Asia, and Catholics murdered in Texas. Okay...the Texas thing was not really about religion, more of a bad drug deal gone south, but still...
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#23
(07-05-2017, 06:37 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(07-05-2017, 04:46 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(07-05-2017, 04:29 PM)Cuzz Wrote:
(07-05-2017, 01:08 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(07-05-2017, 08:59 AM)Wonky3 Wrote: I think you are onto something here. I have no problem with recognizing the efforts, and thanking those who serve in our military but I wonder if we don't "overpraise" military service and neglect those who serve in the Peace Corps, AmeriCorps, Doctors Without Borders, The Mormon missionaries ( Laughing) and others who serve "In The Fields Of The Lord".

I don't think you got my meaning. I'm saying that a LOT of people don't give a shit about how we treat our veterans.
They just say they do a LOT LATELY as a way to justify not helping war refugees.






Do any of those other groups put their lives on the line?

Actually, yes they sometimes do die, but not wholesale. I take your point though.
Yeah I thought about that fact that sometimes they do and sometimes they get killed by militants.
Even nuns.

Yep. I don't have numbers, but I recall "Doctors without borders" getting hacked up in West Africa, other NGO's dying in Somalia, Christian missionary's murdered in Southeast Asia, and Catholics murdered in Texas. Okay...the Texas thing was not really about religion, more of a bad drug deal gone south, but still...

IMO it takes a lot of courage to know you are in grave danger . You may never return to see your loved ones.
But for the good of mankind these people willingly and voluntarily face what ever evil they might encounter.They know the locals can be extremely violent and hostile .  And yet go to Texas anyway.
Reply
#24
(07-05-2017, 04:46 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(07-05-2017, 04:29 PM)Cuzz Wrote:
(07-05-2017, 01:08 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(07-05-2017, 08:59 AM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(07-04-2017, 12:54 PM)tvguy Wrote: Funny how our veterans gained so much attention lately and the opinion that they don't get treated like they deserve is now mentioned so much.
Because why help a Syrian refugee when you have homeless veterans. Wink

I think you are onto something here. I have no problem with recognizing the efforts, and thanking those who serve in our military but I wonder if we don't "overpraise" military service and neglect those who serve in the Peace Corps, AmeriCorps, Doctors Without Borders, The Mormon missionaries ( Laughing) and others who serve "In The Fields Of The Lord".

I don't think you got my meaning. I'm saying that a LOT of people don't give a shit about how we treat our veterans.
They just say they do a LOT LATELY as a way to justify not helping war refugees.






Do any of those other groups put their lives on the line?

Actually, yes they sometimes do die, but not wholesale. I take your point though.
Yeah I thought about that fact that sometimes they do and sometimes they get killed by militants.
Even nuns.

Militants or cannibals. Ever ate a nun, many parts are edible.

<Euell_Gibbons>
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#25
(07-05-2017, 08:19 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(07-05-2017, 06:37 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(07-05-2017, 04:46 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(07-05-2017, 04:29 PM)Cuzz Wrote:
(07-05-2017, 01:08 PM)tvguy Wrote: I don't think you got my meaning. I'm saying that a LOT of people don't give a shit about how we treat our veterans.
They just say they do a LOT LATELY as a way to justify not helping war refugees.






Do any of those other groups put their lives on the line?

Actually, yes they sometimes do die, but not wholesale. I take your point though.
Yeah I thought about that fact that sometimes they do and sometimes they get killed by militants.
Even nuns.

Yep. I don't have numbers, but I recall "Doctors without borders" getting hacked up in West Africa, other NGO's dying in Somalia, Christian missionary's murdered in Southeast Asia, and Catholics murdered in Texas. Okay...the Texas thing was not really about religion, more of a bad drug deal gone south, but still...

IMO it takes a lot of courage to know you are in grave danger . You may never return to see your loved ones.
But for the good of mankind these people willingly and voluntarily face what ever evil they might encounter.They know the locals can be extremely violent and hostile .  And yet go to Texas anyway.

I had to go to Texas a couple times. But, it was for work so I don't think that counts.
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#26
(07-02-2017, 02:00 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(07-02-2017, 01:55 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(07-01-2017, 07:54 PM)chuck white Wrote: Bath salts?

Do you know something or is that a joke?

Chuck is wondering if he should consider bath salts...hence the ?
Maybe he has sore joints and wants to soak.
Or maybe he is just being Chuck.  Big Grin

I assumed Chuck meant bath salts the drug kind not the soak in the tub kind.  No?
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#27
(07-06-2017, 09:20 AM)Juniper Wrote:
(07-02-2017, 02:00 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(07-02-2017, 01:55 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(07-01-2017, 07:54 PM)chuck white Wrote: Bath salts?

Do you know something or is that a joke?

Chuck is wondering if he should consider bath salts...hence the ?
Maybe he has sore joints and wants to soak.
Or maybe he is just being Chuck.  Big Grin

I assumed Chuck meant bath salts the drug kind not the soak in the tub kind.  No?
Yes I'm positive that's what Chuck meant and not sure if Wonky knows what bath salts are.
Reply
#28
(07-06-2017, 01:17 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(07-06-2017, 09:20 AM)Juniper Wrote:
(07-02-2017, 02:00 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(07-02-2017, 01:55 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(07-01-2017, 07:54 PM)chuck white Wrote: Bath salts?

Do you know something or is that a joke?

Chuck is wondering if he should consider bath salts...hence the ?
Maybe he has sore joints and wants to soak.
Or maybe he is just being Chuck.  Big Grin

I assumed Chuck meant bath salts the drug kind not the soak in the tub kind.  No?
Yes I'm positive that's what Chuck meant and not sure if Wonky knows what bath salts are.
Of course I know what the "other" bath salts are. 
I also know Chuck.  Wink
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#29
So veterans get too much help and get too many benefits? It's their fault they enlisted and sustained substantial mental damage?
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#30
(07-07-2017, 12:38 PM)bbqboy Wrote: So veterans get too much help and get too many benefits? It's their fault they enlisted and sustained substantial mental damage?

Obvious you have not been following along.
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#31
(07-07-2017, 12:38 PM)bbqboy Wrote: So veterans get too much help and get too many benefits? It's their fault they enlisted and sustained substantial mental damage?

I think they had a preexisting condition. That is why they enlisted.
Reply
#32
(07-07-2017, 05:26 PM)chuck white Wrote:
(07-07-2017, 12:38 PM)bbqboy Wrote: So veterans get too much help and get too many benefits? It's their fault they enlisted and sustained substantial mental damage?

I think they had a preexisting condition. That is why they enlisted.

And many joined because the coal mine shut down, or the steel mill left Pittsburg, or the lumber mills of the Pacific Northwest dwindled away, or the furniture maker in South Carolina moved to Mexico, or the machinist was replaced by a robot, or the bank teller was replaced by an ATM.

The good news is that prostitutes are doing well.
Reply
#33
(07-07-2017, 07:10 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(07-07-2017, 05:26 PM)chuck white Wrote:
(07-07-2017, 12:38 PM)bbqboy Wrote: So veterans get too much help and get too many benefits? It's their fault they enlisted and sustained substantial mental damage?

I think they had a preexisting condition. That is why they enlisted.

And many joined because the coal mine shut down, or the steel mill left Pittsburg, or the lumber mills of the Pacific Northwest dwindled away, or the furniture maker in South Carolina moved to Mexico, or the machinist was replaced by a robot, or the bank teller was replaced by an ATM.

The good news is that prostitutes are doing well.

Larry wasn't tall enough or drug free enough for service, but evidently some of his kids were. He's going to be pissed you all said "mean things" about his peeps.  Big Grin
Reply
#34
(07-07-2017, 08:53 PM)Valuesize Wrote:
(07-07-2017, 07:10 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(07-07-2017, 05:26 PM)chuck white Wrote:
(07-07-2017, 12:38 PM)bbqboy Wrote: So veterans get too much help and get too many benefits? It's their fault they enlisted and sustained substantial mental damage?

I think they had a preexisting condition. That is why they enlisted.

And many joined because the coal mine shut down, or the steel mill left Pittsburg, or the lumber mills of the Pacific Northwest dwindled away, or the furniture maker in South Carolina moved to Mexico, or the machinist was replaced by a robot, or the bank teller was replaced by an ATM.

The good news is that prostitutes are doing well.

Larry wasn't tall enough or drug free enough for service, but evidently some of his kids were. He's going to be pissed you all said "mean things" about his peeps.  Big Grin

Are we talking prostitution? Unsure
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#35
(07-07-2017, 09:45 PM)chuck white Wrote:
(07-07-2017, 08:53 PM)Valuesize Wrote:
(07-07-2017, 07:10 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(07-07-2017, 05:26 PM)chuck white Wrote:
(07-07-2017, 12:38 PM)bbqboy Wrote: So veterans get too much help and get too many benefits? It's their fault they enlisted and sustained substantial mental damage?

I think they had a preexisting condition. That is why they enlisted.

And many joined because the coal mine shut down, or the steel mill left Pittsburg, or the lumber mills of the Pacific Northwest dwindled away, or the furniture maker in South Carolina moved to Mexico, or the machinist was replaced by a robot, or the bank teller was replaced by an ATM.

The good news is that prostitutes are doing well.

Larry wasn't tall enough or drug free enough for service, but evidently some of his kids were. He's going to be pissed you all said "mean things" about his peeps.  Big Grin

Are we talking prostitution? Unsure

I was making no derogatory remarks about Larry's family members being in the military. My point was simply that as so many jobs "went away" the military became a kind of employer of last resort for many. I appreciate the fact that many others joined and served for reasons they saw as "duty" or patriotic.
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#36
(07-08-2017, 03:49 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(07-07-2017, 09:45 PM)chuck white Wrote:
(07-07-2017, 08:53 PM)Valuesize Wrote:
(07-07-2017, 07:10 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(07-07-2017, 05:26 PM)chuck white Wrote: I think they had a preexisting condition. That is why they enlisted.

And many joined because the coal mine shut down, or the steel mill left Pittsburg, or the lumber mills of the Pacific Northwest dwindled away, or the furniture maker in South Carolina moved to Mexico, or the machinist was replaced by a robot, or the bank teller was replaced by an ATM.

The good news is that prostitutes are doing well.

Larry wasn't tall enough or drug free enough for service, but evidently some of his kids were. He's going to be pissed you all said "mean things" about his peeps.  Big Grin

Are we talking prostitution? Unsure

I was making no derogatory remarks about Larry's family members being in the military. My point was simply that as so many jobs "went away" the military became a kind of employer of last resort for many. I appreciate the fact that many others joined and served for reasons they saw as "duty" or patriotic.

I'm not sure I see an appreciable difference. They all take the same risk really.
Reply
#37
(07-07-2017, 08:53 PM)Valuesize Wrote:
(07-07-2017, 07:10 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(07-07-2017, 05:26 PM)chuck white Wrote:
(07-07-2017, 12:38 PM)bbqboy Wrote: So veterans get too much help and get too many benefits? It's their fault they enlisted and sustained substantial mental damage?

I think they had a preexisting condition. That is why they enlisted.

And many joined because the coal mine shut down, or the steel mill left Pittsburg, or the lumber mills of the Pacific Northwest dwindled away, or the furniture maker in South Carolina moved to Mexico, or the machinist was replaced by a robot, or the bank teller was replaced by an ATM.

The good news is that prostitutes are doing well.

Larry wasn't tall enough or drug free enough for service, but evidently some of his kids were. He's going to be pissed you all said "mean things" about his peeps.  Big Grin

VS: Your ignorance, arrogance, and general stupidity are laughable.  You lack any real knowledge of my life, and this was nothing more than an ad hominem attack for absolutely no reason.  You are a real POS.

Wonky:  I did not take your post to be aimed at me or anyone in particular.  I took it as a general and true statement.
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#38
(07-07-2017, 08:53 PM)Valuesize Wrote:
(07-07-2017, 07:10 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(07-07-2017, 05:26 PM)chuck white Wrote:
(07-07-2017, 12:38 PM)bbqboy Wrote: So veterans get too much help and get too many benefits? It's their fault they enlisted and sustained substantial mental damage?

I think they had a preexisting condition. That is why they enlisted.

And many joined because the coal mine shut down, or the steel mill left Pittsburg, or the lumber mills of the Pacific Northwest dwindled away, or the furniture maker in South Carolina moved to Mexico, or the machinist was replaced by a robot, or the bank teller was replaced by an ATM.

The good news is that prostitutes are doing well.

Larry wasn't tall enough or drug free enough for service, but evidently some of his kids were. He's going to be pissed you all said "mean things" about his peeps.  Big Grin

Far be it from me to say anything in Larry's defense, but......WTF?  That's uncalled for.
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#39
(07-08-2017, 06:59 PM)Juniper Wrote:
(07-07-2017, 08:53 PM)Valuesize Wrote:
(07-07-2017, 07:10 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(07-07-2017, 05:26 PM)chuck white Wrote:
(07-07-2017, 12:38 PM)bbqboy Wrote: So veterans get too much help and get too many benefits? It's their fault they enlisted and sustained substantial mental damage?

I think they had a preexisting condition. That is why they enlisted.

And many joined because the coal mine shut down, or the steel mill left Pittsburg, or the lumber mills of the Pacific Northwest dwindled away, or the furniture maker in South Carolina moved to Mexico, or the machinist was replaced by a robot, or the bank teller was replaced by an ATM.

The good news is that prostitutes are doing well.

Larry wasn't tall enough or drug free enough for service, but evidently some of his kids were. He's going to be pissed you all said "mean things" about his peeps.  Big Grin

Far be it from me to say anything in Larry's defense, but......WTF?  That's uncalled for.

No big deal, just stirring the pot on a boring weekend around here. Smiling He's done plenty of stirring for stirrings sake now and again.  I've never met the man, but y'all said he's short and had a meth problem at one point. And yes, I can be a POS sometimes.  Surprised
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#40
(07-08-2017, 06:29 PM)Hugo Wrote: VS: Your ignorance, arrogance, and general stupidity are laughable.  You lack any real knowledge of my life, and this was nothing more than an ad hominem attack for absolutely no reason.  You are a real POS.

Wonky:  I did not take your post to be aimed at me or anyone in particular.  I took it as a general and true statement.

Coming from you, this just made my night. Thanks!  Cool
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