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#1
So I'm looking at a FB post from Southern Oregon news . It had the same article that was on today channel 12 news about the Phoenix interchange accident and it mentioned that people were very dividend on weather or not the intersection is confusing.
There were a few people who posted and said things like it's "Horrendous"and such

One person said  

"It's a good thing there is only 87 of them Nationwide that speaks volumes."

So because I know it's not a debate site I did not post TOO that person I posted a new reply I said...ODOT studies these intersections to death.
It says in the article that it's more difficult to go the wrong way with this style of interchange. Why would they lie?

Then I'm asked .. "who said ODOT lied?
"

I said you implied something was wrong with the interchange but ODOT says it actually safer so why would they lie


At thus point I was told I shouldn't twist anyone words that the person implied no such thing.   Then my post was deleted and I''m blocked from the entire site LOL Blink

So when someone says "It's a good thing there is only 87 of them Nationwide that speaks volumes."

How in the hell does that NOT imply there is something wrong with the intersection LOL
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#2
(07-10-2017, 07:56 PM)tvguy Wrote: So I'm looking at a FB post from Southern Oregon news . It had the same article that was on today channel 12 news about the Phoenix interchange accident and it mentioned that people were very dividend on weather or not the intersection is confusing.
There were a few people who posted and said things like it's "Horrendous"and such

One person said  

"It's a good thing there is only 87 of them Nationwide that speaks volumes."

So because I know it's not a debate site I did not post TOO that person I posted a new reply I said...ODOT studies these intersections to death.
It says in the article that it's more difficult to go the wrong way with this style of interchange. Why would they lie?

Then I'm asked .. "who said ODOT lied?
"

I said you implied something was wrong with the interchange but ODOT says it actually safer so why would they lie


At thus point I was told I shouldn't twist anyone words that the person implied no such thing.   Then my post was deleted and I''m blocked from the entire site LOL Blink

So when someone says "It's a good thing there is only 87 of them Nationwide that speaks volumes."

How in the hell does that NOT imply there is something wrong with the intersection LOL

FB is the worst. No one really pays attention. There are few if any running conversations, so nothing gets clarified. Just assumptions and posting the first stupid thing that comes to their mind. They don't even (usually)  check the responses to their post.  Logic doesn't work either. FB Nation is like Idiocracy.
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#3
FB ain't forum, TV, you gotta finnesse 'em a little more. I know! I tried my usual style and got blocked/banned too for being ...whatever I was being. It came as a bit of a shock
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#4
Here's a great example of how FB works:  I go to a number of sites, and one music site posted this pic with a caption that says "Who's this":


[Image: f80050c6a402a9f770c4a02c31de3416---year-...lennon.jpg]

Poster after poster says "John Lennon"

A whole 'nuther contingent of posters including myself are posting :  "That's NOT John Lennon. No how, no way!"

People just keep posting and saying things like "I'd know that face ANYWHERE!  That's my John!" 

No manner, or consistency of counter posting makes a bit of difference. Except some people who get all butthurt because they are being contradicted. To be fair, a number of posters took heed.  It's actually some guy from Brazil.  But most people didn't bother to read the post above theirs, and when they did they were very stupid about it. It's just FB.  There's no replacing forums but forums are dead. BTW, that thread is still going strong with people posting everyday:  That's John Lennon!
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#5
Odot does not take intuitiveness into account when they build these computer model maximized intersections. So, is there something wrong with it? In the terms of its purpose no, but that does not mean it is an intuitively safe design for 1000s of daily users. Which on any given day will have people using it for the first time, this includes senior citizen drivers at night, or inclement weather who are not going to be able to read signs while trying to navigate. Computer models and committees hardly ever translate well in real world applications.
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#6
(07-10-2017, 08:34 PM)Juniper Wrote: FB ain't forum, TV, you gotta finnesse 'em a little more. I know! I tried my usual style and got blocked/banned too for being ...whatever I was being. It came as a bit of a shock

Yes I was trying VERY hard to not look like I was arguing with THAT person so I made a comment that ODOT does a lot of research and they say that intersection is LESS likely to cause a wrong way accident.
And then I added.. why would they lie?

I don't see how anyone could accuse me of twisting her words around. She CLEARLY implied there was something wrong with the intersection.

Really weird.
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#7
(07-10-2017, 08:46 PM)GPnative Wrote: Odot does not take intuitiveness into account when they build these computer model maximized intersections. So, is there something wrong with it? In the terms of its purpose no, but that does not mean it is an intuitively safe design for 1000s of daily users. Which on any given day will have people using it for the first time, this includes senior citizen drivers at night, or inclement weather who are not going to be able to read signs while trying to navigate.  Computer models and committees hardly ever translate well in real world applications.

I beg to differ. There are 87 intersections just like that one in this country. They don't need a computer model.
They have the real thing to look at and gather data.
So if ODOT says this intersection makes it harder for people to go the wrong way then I believe them.
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#8
(07-10-2017, 08:44 PM)Juniper Wrote: Here's a great example of how FB works:  I go to a number of sites, and one music site posted this pic with a caption that says "Who's this":


[Image: f80050c6a402a9f770c4a02c31de3416---year-...lennon.jpg]

Poster after poster says "John Lennon"

A whole 'nuther contingent of posters including myself are posting :  "That's NOT John Lennon. No how, no way!"

People just keep posting and saying things like "I'd know that face ANYWHERE!  That's my John!" 

No manner, or consistency of counter posting makes a bit of difference. Except some people who get all butthurt because they are being contradicted. To be fair, a number of posters took heed.  It's actually some guy from Brazil.  But most people didn't bother to read the post above theirs, and when they did they were very stupid about it. It's just FB.  There's no replacing forums but forums are dead. BTW, that thread is still going strong with people posting everyday:  That's John Lennon!

Yes you can tell when a thread has ran it's course because no one reads previous replies and just post the same shit that's already been said.
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#9
(07-10-2017, 09:18 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(07-10-2017, 08:34 PM)Juniper Wrote: FB ain't forum, TV, you gotta finnesse 'em a little more. I know! I tried my usual style and got blocked/banned too for being ...whatever I was being. It came as a bit of a shock

Yes I was trying VERY hard to not look like I was arguing with THAT person so I made a comment that ODOT does a lot of research and they say that intersection is LESS likely to cause a wrong way accident.
And then I added.. why would they lie?

I don't see how anyone could accuse me of twisting her words around. She CLEARLY implied there was something wrong with the intersection.

Really weird.

Of course ODOT would say that. They study these things over and over. If you know how the intersection works then it's pretty obvious how it works. They just don't seem to always take human nature into account. For someone who has never seen such a strange interchange and has had "keep right" drilled into their heads. Trust me, they will find a way to go the wrong way. They might feel uncomfortable doing it but they'll do it anyway.

I don't have trouble using it but I didn't like it the first time I saw it. Just like I don't like roundabouts. They both work fine when traffic works like it should. I just don't trust traffic to work like it should. I'm rarely disappointed in that for long.

My opinion is that it was a very expensive experiment. One they would rather do first in Phoenix then in Portland.
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#10
(07-10-2017, 09:23 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(07-10-2017, 08:44 PM)Juniper Wrote: Here's a great example of how FB works:  I go to a number of sites, and one music site posted this pic with a caption that says "Who's this":


[Image: f80050c6a402a9f770c4a02c31de3416---year-...lennon.jpg]

Poster after poster says "John Lennon"

A whole 'nuther contingent of posters including myself are posting :  "That's NOT John Lennon. No how, no way!"

People just keep posting and saying things like "I'd know that face ANYWHERE!  That's my John!" 

No manner, or consistency of counter posting makes a bit of difference. Except some people who get all butthurt because they are being contradicted. To be fair, a number of posters took heed.  It's actually some guy from Brazil.  But most people didn't bother to read the post above theirs, and when they did they were very stupid about it. It's just FB.  There's no replacing forums but forums are dead. BTW, that thread is still going strong with people posting everyday:  That's John Lennon!

Yes you can tell when a thread has ran it's course because no one reads previous replies and just post the same shit that's already been said.

Isn't that John Lennon?


















sorry, I couldn't resist!   Big Grin
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#11
(07-10-2017, 09:36 PM)Cuzz Wrote:
(07-10-2017, 09:18 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(07-10-2017, 08:34 PM)Juniper Wrote: FB ain't forum, TV, you gotta finnesse 'em a little more. I know! I tried my usual style and got blocked/banned too for being ...whatever I was being. It came as a bit of a shock

Yes I was trying VERY hard to not look like I was arguing with THAT person so I made a comment that ODOT does a lot of research and they say that intersection is LESS likely to cause a wrong way accident.
And then I added.. why would they lie?

I don't see how anyone could accuse me of twisting her words around. She CLEARLY implied there was something wrong with the intersection.

Really weird.

Of course ODOT would say that. They study these things over and over. If you know how the intersection works then it's pretty obvious how it works. They just don't seem to always take human nature into account. For someone who has never seen such a strange interchange and has had "keep right" drilled into their heads. Trust me, they will find a way to go the wrong way. They might feel uncomfortable doing it but they'll do it anyway.

I don't have trouble using it but I didn't like it the first time I saw it. Just like I don't like roundabouts. They both work fine when traffic works like it should. I just don't trust traffic to work like it should. I'm rarely disappointed in that for long.

My opinion is that it was a very expensive experiment. One they would rather do first in Phoenix then in Portland.

Dude if they "They study these things over and over" and they know how many accidents happen and have all that info why do you think they "They just don't seem to always take human nature into account."?

The data would have to include human nature.

Trust me, they will find a way to go the wrong way


No offense but why would I trust you instead of the ODOT spokesmen who flat out said this intersection does a better job of preventing wrong way drivers.
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#12
IMO the problem was most likely the 81 year old driver.














http://www.kdrv.com/story/35852475/fatal-i-5-crash-sparks-online-debate
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#13
(07-10-2017, 09:50 PM)tvguy Wrote: IMO the problem was most likely the 81 year old driver.

http://www.kdrv.com/story/35852475/fatal-i-5-crash-sparks-online-debate

Is this the spot?  It looks fairly easy to take a right here when there is no traffic late at night. The wrong way signs don't point in the right place to see before turning.

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.2808268,...6656?hl=en

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.2808133,...6656?hl=en
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#14
(07-10-2017, 10:12 PM)Valuesize Wrote:
(07-10-2017, 09:50 PM)tvguy Wrote: IMO the problem was most likely the 81 year old driver.

http://www.kdrv.com/story/35852475/fatal-i-5-crash-sparks-online-debate

Is this the spot?  It looks fairly easy to take a right here when there is no traffic late at night. The wrong way signs don't point in the right place to see before turning.

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.2808268,...6656?hl=en

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.2808133,...6656?hl=en

No you are looking at 2012 at the old intersection.

Google earth is usually not that far behind. Did you check and see if you were  viewing the latest pics?
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#15
(07-10-2017, 10:27 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(07-10-2017, 10:12 PM)Valuesize Wrote:
(07-10-2017, 09:50 PM)tvguy Wrote: IMO the problem was most likely the 81 year old driver.

http://www.kdrv.com/story/35852475/fatal-i-5-crash-sparks-online-debate

Is this the spot?  It looks fairly easy to take a right here when there is no traffic late at night. The wrong way signs don't point in the right place to see before turning.

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.2808268,...6656?hl=en

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.2808133,...6656?hl=en

No you are looking at 2012 at the old intersection.

Google earth is usually not that far behind. Did you check and see if you were  viewing the latest pics?

No. How do you do that? I didn't notice the date in the upper left.
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#16
(07-10-2017, 09:46 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(07-10-2017, 09:36 PM)Cuzz Wrote:
(07-10-2017, 09:18 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(07-10-2017, 08:34 PM)Juniper Wrote: FB ain't forum, TV, you gotta finnesse 'em a little more. I know! I tried my usual style and got blocked/banned too for being ...whatever I was being. It came as a bit of a shock

Yes I was trying VERY hard to not look like I was arguing with THAT person so I made a comment that ODOT does a lot of research and they say that intersection is LESS likely to cause a wrong way accident.
And then I added.. why would they lie?

I don't see how anyone could accuse me of twisting her words around. She CLEARLY implied there was something wrong with the intersection.

Really weird.

Of course ODOT would say that. They study these things over and over. If you know how the intersection works then it's pretty obvious how it works. They just don't seem to always take human nature into account. For someone who has never seen such a strange interchange and has had "keep right" drilled into their heads. Trust me, they will find a way to go the wrong way. They might feel uncomfortable doing it but they'll do it anyway.

I don't have trouble using it but I didn't like it the first time I saw it. Just like I don't like roundabouts. They both work fine when traffic works like it should. I just don't trust traffic to work like it should. I'm rarely disappointed in that for long.

My opinion is that it was a very expensive experiment. One they would rather do first in Phoenix then in Portland.

Dude if they "They study these things over and over" and they know how many accidents happen and have all that info why do you think they "They just don't seem to always take human nature into account."?

The data would have to include human nature.

Trust me, they will find a way to go the wrong way


No offense but why would I trust you instead of the ODOT spokesmen who flat out said this intersection does a better job of preventing wrong way drivers.

Cause until they start building them there won't be any accidents. I remember reading during the planning phase for the interchange it would be one of the first of it's kind. They might have more now but when the decisions were made they had little to go on.

Personally I think it's worked out better then I thought. But there likely will still be more accidents. When the snow covers the lane marks people get real hesitant. I've seen that at the south Medford interchange too. Maybe that's good because it slows down traffic.
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#17
[img][Image: 6olgxx.jpg][/img][img][Image: 6olgxx.jpg][/img]
(07-10-2017, 10:31 PM)Valuesize Wrote:
(07-10-2017, 10:27 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(07-10-2017, 10:12 PM)Valuesize Wrote:
(07-10-2017, 09:50 PM)tvguy Wrote: IMO the problem was most likely the 81 year old driver.

http://www.kdrv.com/story/35852475/fatal-i-5-crash-sparks-online-debate

Is this the spot?  It looks fairly easy to take a right here when there is no traffic late at night. The wrong way signs don't point in the right place to see before turning.

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.2808268,...6656?hl=en

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.2808133,...6656?hl=en

No you are looking at 2012 at the old intersection.

Google earth is usually not that far behind. Did you check and see if you were  viewing the latest pics?

No. How do you do that? I didn't notice the date in the upper left.
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#18
(07-10-2017, 10:32 PM)Cuzz Wrote:
(07-10-2017, 09:46 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(07-10-2017, 09:36 PM)Cuzz Wrote:
(07-10-2017, 09:18 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(07-10-2017, 08:34 PM)Juniper Wrote: FB ain't forum, TV, you gotta finnesse 'em a little more. I know! I tried my usual style and got blocked/banned too for being ...whatever I was being. It came as a bit of a shock

Yes I was trying VERY hard to not look like I was arguing with THAT person so I made a comment that ODOT does a lot of research and they say that intersection is LESS likely to cause a wrong way accident.
And then I added.. why would they lie?

I don't see how anyone could accuse me of twisting her words around. She CLEARLY implied there was something wrong with the intersection.

Really weird.

Of course ODOT would say that. They study these things over and over. If you know how the intersection works then it's pretty obvious how it works. They just don't seem to always take human nature into account. For someone who has never seen such a strange interchange and has had "keep right" drilled into their heads. Trust me, they will find a way to go the wrong way. They might feel uncomfortable doing it but they'll do it anyway.

I don't have trouble using it but I didn't like it the first time I saw it. Just like I don't like roundabouts. They both work fine when traffic works like it should. I just don't trust traffic to work like it should. I'm rarely disappointed in that for long.

My opinion is that it was a very expensive experiment. One they would rather do first in Phoenix then in Portland.

Dude if they "They study these things over and over" and they know how many accidents happen and have all that info why do you think they "They just don't seem to always take human nature into account."?

The data would have to include human nature.

Trust me, they will find a way to go the wrong way


No offense but why would I trust you instead of the ODOT spokesmen who flat out said this intersection does a better job of preventing wrong way drivers.

Cause until they start building them there won't be any accidents. I remember reading during the planning phase for the interchange it would be one of the first of it's kind. They might have more now but when the decisions were made they had little to go on.

Personally I think it's worked out better then I thought. But there likely will still be more accidents. When the snow covers the lane marks people get real hesitant. I've seen that at the south Medford interchange too. Maybe that's good because it slows down traffic.

I see what you mean. But I'm not so sure 87 of these were built and all at basically the same time.

Edit..... They have had a lot of time to find out how well these work.


The Missouri Department of Transportation was the first US agency to construct one, in Springfield at the junction between I-44 and Missouri Route 13 (at 37.2503°N 93.3107°W). Construction began the week of January 12, 2009, and the interchange opened on June 21, 2009.[9][10] This interchange was a conversion of an existing standard diamond interchange, and used the existing bridge.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diverging_...ge#History
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#19
You are using Google Earth and I was using Google Maps. Got it. Smiling
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#20
(07-10-2017, 11:12 PM)Valuesize Wrote: You are using Google Earth and I was using Google Maps. Got it. Smiling

OH LOL..Anyway as you can see the interchange was not completed when Google earth took the last pic.

I've been running in and out taking pictures of the moon so I may have not paid attention.
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