Take a knee.
#81
(10-01-2017, 03:29 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(10-01-2017, 02:55 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(10-01-2017, 08:36 AM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(10-01-2017, 07:13 AM)Scrapper Wrote: [Image: 468e6e970159b55282ee0ab5e8c56020.jpg]

Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk
Yes, Injustice is cruel and painful.
And varies in it's intensity and harm. 

Rosa Parks was protesting against a rigid practice of racial segregation that even dictated her seat on a public bus. In the segregated south even blacks of privilege had to sit "in the back of the bus". 

Mahatma Gandhi was protesting the high price of salt and the colonial oppression of a foreign power. The British allowed Indians places of some privilege but never the reigns  of power. (In the US we have had a black president) 

It's less clear what the players in the NFL are protesting, even as we acknowledge the injustice some blacks suffer. We now live in a society where many blacks have privileges scores of poor white people (and others) do not enjoy. NFL players for instance, enjoy privileges most do not. 

Let the players (and owners) continue, and let the nation engage in a conversation to finally find a solution for the behaviors of all those involved. All blacks (and nonwhites) should feel safe on our streets, free to live where they choose, and be unencumbered in the search for success. You know...like Oprah Winfrey. 




 
 Bloviate much? That sounds like a speech you wrote or a lecture.




We now live in a society where many blacks have privileges scores of poor white people (and others) do not enjoy. NFL players for instance, enjoy privileges most do not.


I think that comment is ridiculous . And what percentage of blacks ever become pro athletes? Sure as hell not enough to consider blacks privileged.

And thanks for explaining why Rosa and Gandhi protested   Rolling Eyes

Nope. Not raising to the bait.

It's not bait in any way. You can forget my rather insulting comment about your style of speech. I probably should have refrained form saying what you sounded like to me. I apologize. Smiling

But other than the tiny minority of blacks who can make a living in sports. What exactly is this "privilege" blacks have over whites?
Affirmative Action is no privilege. All it does is try and give blacks the same opportunity as whites.
Reply
#82
(10-01-2017, 03:51 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(10-01-2017, 03:29 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(10-01-2017, 02:55 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(10-01-2017, 08:36 AM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(10-01-2017, 07:13 AM)Scrapper Wrote: [Image: 468e6e970159b55282ee0ab5e8c56020.jpg]

Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk
Yes, Injustice is cruel and painful.
And varies in it's intensity and harm. 

Rosa Parks was protesting against a rigid practice of racial segregation that even dictated her seat on a public bus. In the segregated south even blacks of privilege had to sit "in the back of the bus". 

Mahatma Gandhi was protesting the high price of salt and the colonial oppression of a foreign power. The British allowed Indians places of some privilege but never the reigns  of power. (In the US we have had a black president) 

It's less clear what the players in the NFL are protesting, even as we acknowledge the injustice some blacks suffer. We now live in a society where many blacks have privileges scores of poor white people (and others) do not enjoy. NFL players for instance, enjoy privileges most do not. 

Let the players (and owners) continue, and let the nation engage in a conversation to finally find a solution for the behaviors of all those involved. All blacks (and nonwhites) should feel safe on our streets, free to live where they choose, and be unencumbered in the search for success. You know...like Oprah Winfrey. 




 
 Bloviate much? That sounds like a speech you wrote or a lecture.




We now live in a society where many blacks have privileges scores of poor white people (and others) do not enjoy. NFL players for instance, enjoy privileges most do not.


I think that comment is ridiculous . And what percentage of blacks ever become pro athletes? Sure as hell not enough to consider blacks privileged.

And thanks for explaining why Rosa and Gandhi protested   Rolling Eyes

Nope. Not raising to the bait.

It's not bait in any way. You can forget my rather insulting comment about your style of speech. I probably should have refrained form saying what you sounded like to me. I apologize. Smiling

But other than the tiny minority of blacks who can make a living in sports. What exactly is this "privilege" blacks have over whites?
Affirmative Action is no privilege. All it does is try and give blacks the same opportunity as whites.
I don't really agree with the way you phrased that. It does NOT give blacks the same opportunity as whites. It demands that blacks are given favorable consideration over whites in order to create some sort of level playing field. IMHO there are pros and cons to Affirmative Action. The 2 most obvious are:

Pro: It actually does what it claims by forcing opportunity toward blacks that might otherwise not be there. 

Con: It raises the possibilty of the best person for the job, not getting the job. To be CLEAR... this does NOT assume that the best person is not also the black person.

My question about AA? Is short term help for minorities preferable to the long term goal of watching them succeed on their own merits?
Reply
#83
(10-01-2017, 05:06 PM)GCG Wrote:
(10-01-2017, 03:51 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(10-01-2017, 03:29 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(10-01-2017, 02:55 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(10-01-2017, 08:36 AM)Wonky3 Wrote: Yes, Injustice is cruel and painful.
And varies in it's intensity and harm. 

Rosa Parks was protesting against a rigid practice of racial segregation that even dictated her seat on a public bus. In the segregated south even blacks of privilege had to sit "in the back of the bus". 

Mahatma Gandhi was protesting the high price of salt and the colonial oppression of a foreign power. The British allowed Indians places of some privilege but never the reigns  of power. (In the US we have had a black president) 

It's less clear what the players in the NFL are protesting, even as we acknowledge the injustice some blacks suffer. We now live in a society where many blacks have privileges scores of poor white people (and others) do not enjoy. NFL players for instance, enjoy privileges most do not. 

Let the players (and owners) continue, and let the nation engage in a conversation to finally find a solution for the behaviors of all those involved. All blacks (and nonwhites) should feel safe on our streets, free to live where they choose, and be unencumbered in the search for success. You know...like Oprah Winfrey. 




 
 Bloviate much? That sounds like a speech you wrote or a lecture.




We now live in a society where many blacks have privileges scores of poor white people (and others) do not enjoy. NFL players for instance, enjoy privileges most do not.


I think that comment is ridiculous . And what percentage of blacks ever become pro athletes? Sure as hell not enough to consider blacks privileged.

And thanks for explaining why Rosa and Gandhi protested   Rolling Eyes

Nope. Not raising to the bait.

It's not bait in any way. You can forget my rather insulting comment about your style of speech. I probably should have refrained form saying what you sounded like to me. I apologize. Smiling

But other than the tiny minority of blacks who can make a living in sports. What exactly is this "privilege" blacks have over whites?
Affirmative Action is no privilege. All it does is try and give blacks the same opportunity as whites.
I don't really agree with the way you phrased that. It does NOT give blacks the same opportunity as whites. It demands that blacks are given favorable consideration over whites in order to create some sort of level playing field. IMHO there are pros and cons to Affirmative Action. The 2 most obvious are:

Pro: It actually does what it claims by forcing opportunity toward blacks that might otherwise not be there. 

Con: It raises the possibilty of the best person for the job, not getting the job. To be CLEAR... this does NOT assume that the best person is not also the black person.

My question about AA? Is short term help for minorities preferable to the long term goal of watching them succeed on their own merits?
I agree. And the last question. I don't know I think I agree with AA because it rights a wrong. You kind of imply it's a handout, I think it's a hand up.
But yes it is not perfect.
Reply
#84
(10-01-2017, 05:09 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(10-01-2017, 05:06 PM)GCG Wrote:
(10-01-2017, 03:51 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(10-01-2017, 03:29 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(10-01-2017, 02:55 PM)tvguy Wrote:  Bloviate much? That sounds like a speech you wrote or a lecture.




We now live in a society where many blacks have privileges scores of poor white people (and others) do not enjoy. NFL players for instance, enjoy privileges most do not.


I think that comment is ridiculous . And what percentage of blacks ever become pro athletes? Sure as hell not enough to consider blacks privileged.

And thanks for explaining why Rosa and Gandhi protested   Rolling Eyes

Nope. Not raising to the bait.

It's not bait in any way. You can forget my rather insulting comment about your style of speech. I probably should have refrained form saying what you sounded like to me. I apologize. Smiling

But other than the tiny minority of blacks who can make a living in sports. What exactly is this "privilege" blacks have over whites?
Affirmative Action is no privilege. All it does is try and give blacks the same opportunity as whites.
I don't really agree with the way you phrased that. It does NOT give blacks the same opportunity as whites. It demands that blacks are given favorable consideration over whites in order to create some sort of level playing field. IMHO there are pros and cons to Affirmative Action. The 2 most obvious are:

Pro: It actually does what it claims by forcing opportunity toward blacks that might otherwise not be there. 

Con: It raises the possibilty of the best person for the job, not getting the job. To be CLEAR... this does NOT assume that the best person is not also the black person.

My question about AA? Is short term help for minorities preferable to the long term goal of watching them succeed on their own merits?
I agree. And the last question. I don't know I think I agree with AA because it rights a wrong. You kind of imply it's a handout, I think it's a hand up.
But yes it is not perfect.

I agree that it's a hand up. But, I prefer to see blacks succeed on their own. I hope that AA helps that happen... but I fear that it will hinder it in the long run.
Reply
#85
Some things never change! SmilingSmilingSmiling
Reply
#86
(10-02-2017, 06:36 AM)bbqboy Wrote: Some things never change!  SmilingSmilingSmiling

Then consider making a change. Add some CONTENT to the conversation from time to time. 

I got body slammed for some comments in posts above. TVg suggested I was giving a history lesson about Rosa Parks and Gandhi. I hope a closer reading of that might show I was suggesting that the movement for independence in India and the civil rights movement in this country were long struggles about institutional oppression. The "take a knee" movement is, while worthy of attention, by contrast much less important. 

I also suggested that many blacks now enjoy middle class privileges. "Many" is subjective, and I have no data to prove my point, and in fact my point may not be true. Not all that long ago we never saw people of color on national TV news broadcasts. More and more blacks (mostly women) are attending four year college programs. I see more black doctors now than I did 30 years ago. I see more blacks in "the trades" (40 years ago not many blacks were members of the IBEW Union...this I know to be a fact). Still...and most important, there is no doubt in my mind that blacks continue to suffer prejudice, injustice, and many disadvantages. This is more complex than the space here allows, however. 

Also, I got some heat about my own personal views about our national flag, all the while trying to be clear that I understand others feel differently, and I accept the fact that we all get to make choices about how we respond to the public observations of our flag. 

Point: I, like everyone else here, express views that are personal an not always expressed as clearly as they might be. I don't feel I'm alone in this. I'm not attempting to do anything other than post my own views, and it pisses me off that those view get attacked in personal ways and often ignore the point that is obvious if not well stated.

Take a knee, don't take a knee. I will continue to be "upstanding" and honor our flag. YOU don't have to! Maybe I'm wrong in suggesting that many blacks have moved into "middle class" that previous generations seldom achieved. 

Only opinions. I continue to think that's what this space is for. I don't enjoy the back biting negative responses to those posts. 

Criticize to your hearts content, but consider the content of the posts before rushing to find fault simply because it was posted by "Wonky".
Reply
#87
(10-02-2017, 12:00 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(10-02-2017, 06:36 AM)bbqboy Wrote: Some things never change!  SmilingSmilingSmiling

Then consider making a change. Add some CONTENT to the conversation from time to time. 

I got body slammed for some comments in posts above. TVg suggested I was giving a history lesson about Rosa Parks and Gandhi. I hope a closer reading of that might show I was suggesting that the movement for independence in India and the civil rights movement in this country were long struggles about institutional oppression. The "take a knee" movement is, while worthy of attention, by contrast much less important. 

I also suggested that many blacks now enjoy middle class privileges. "Many" is subjective, and I have no data to prove my point, and in fact my point may not be true. Not all that long ago we never saw people of color on national TV news broadcasts. More and more blacks (mostly women) are attending four year college programs. I see more black doctors now than I did 30 years ago. I see more blacks in "the trades" (40 years ago not many blacks were members of the IBEW Union...this I know to be a fact). Still...and most important, there is no doubt in my mind that blacks continue to suffer prejudice, injustice, and many disadvantages. This is more complex than the space here allows, however. 

Also, I got some heat about my own personal views about our national flag, all the while trying to be clear that I understand others feel differently, and I accept the fact that we all get to make choices about how we respond to the public observations of our flag. 

Point: I, like everyone else here, express views that are personal an not always expressed as clearly as they might be. I don't feel I'm alone in this. I'm not attempting to do anything other than post my own views, and it pisses me off that those view get attacked in personal ways and often ignore the point that is obvious if not well stated.

Take a knee, don't take a knee. I will continue to be "upstanding" and honor our flag. YOU don't have to! Maybe I'm wrong in suggesting that many blacks have moved into "middle class" that previous generations seldom achieved. 

Only opinions. I continue to think that's what this space is for. I don't enjoy the back biting negative responses to those posts. 

Criticize to your hearts content, but consider the content of the posts before rushing to find fault simply because it was posted by "Wonky".

I get it....and it's obvious there is a long history at play that has resulted in axes to grind and as you said rush to find fault by matter of habit. Of course they will never admit it or just flip the blame back on you and blame your style, but the evidence speaks for itself. In all honestly the broken record of wonky post bashing jumped the shark a long time ago.
Reply
#88
(10-02-2017, 12:00 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(10-02-2017, 06:36 AM)bbqboy Wrote: Some things never change!  SmilingSmilingSmiling

Then consider making a change. Add some CONTENT to the conversation from time to time. 

I got body slammed for some comments in posts above. TVg suggested I was giving a history lesson about Rosa Parks and Gandhi. I hope a closer reading of that might show I was suggesting that the movement for independence in India and the civil rights movement in this country were long struggles about institutional oppression. The "take a knee" movement is, while worthy of attention, by contrast much less important. 

I also suggested that many blacks now enjoy middle class privileges. "Many" is subjective, and I have no data to prove my point, and in fact my point may not be true. Not all that long ago we never saw people of color on national TV news broadcasts. More and more blacks (mostly women) are attending four year college programs. I see more black doctors now than I did 30 years ago. I see more blacks in "the trades" (40 years ago not many blacks were members of the IBEW Union...this I know to be a fact). Still...and most important, there is no doubt in my mind that blacks continue to suffer prejudice, injustice, and many disadvantages. This is more complex than the space here allows, however. 

Also, I got some heat about my own personal views about our national flag, all the while trying to be clear that I understand others feel differently, and I accept the fact that we all get to make choices about how we respond to the public observations of our flag. 

Point: I, like everyone else here, express views that are personal an not always expressed as clearly as they might be. I don't feel I'm alone in this. I'm not attempting to do anything other than post my own views, and it pisses me off that those view get attacked in personal ways and often ignore the point that is obvious if not well stated.

Take a knee, don't take a knee. I will continue to be "upstanding" and honor our flag. YOU don't have to! Maybe I'm wrong in suggesting that many blacks have moved into "middle class" that previous generations seldom achieved. 

Only opinions. I continue to think that's what this space is for. I don't enjoy the back biting negative responses to those posts. 

Criticize to your hearts content, but consider the content of the posts before rushing to find fault simply because it was posted by "Wonky".

Laughing  Yeah... cause that NEVER happens to a post from "Larry" or "Hugo".  Welcome to the club...... Smiling
Reply
#89
(10-02-2017, 01:50 PM)Hugo Wrote: Laughing  Yeah... cause that NEVER happens to a post from "Larry" or "Hugo".  Welcome to the club...... Smiling

Just trying to give you a little of what you come here for.  Laughing
Reply
#90
(10-02-2017, 02:06 PM)Valuesize Wrote:
(10-02-2017, 01:50 PM)Hugo Wrote: Laughing  Yeah... cause that NEVER happens to a post from "Larry" or "Hugo".  Welcome to the club...... Smiling

Just trying to give you a little of what you come here for.  Laughing

But it's TRUE. 
We jump on one another without good reason. Larry, I've been guilty of tying to knock some bark off you at times with no good reason. Sometimes just reacting to what I think you MIGHT say.   Embarrassed. I'll try to knock that off. But, we do have some basic disagreements and in those cases all is fair. 
Having a hissy-fit not long ago I called Scrapper ignorant. That's just plain insulting and all because I was angry she had told me to go make love to myself. I should not have called her ignorant. Sorry Scrapper. I've called TV an asshole a LOT of times but just can't bring myself to say sorry. I mean, we all know he IS an asshole.  Razz

Whatever. I was having "one of those mornings" when I posted the thing above (couple of posts up) trying to explain. I shouldn't post in those moods. 

Whatever... Happy
Reply
#91
(10-02-2017, 12:00 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(10-02-2017, 06:36 AM)bbqboy Wrote: Some things never change!  SmilingSmilingSmiling

Then consider making a change. Add some CONTENT to the conversation from time to time. 

I got body slammed for some comments in posts above. TVg suggested I was giving a history lesson about Rosa Parks and Gandhi. I hope a closer reading of that might show I was suggesting that the movement for independence in India and the civil rights movement in this country were long struggles about institutional oppression. The "take a knee" movement is, while worthy of attention, by contrast much less important. 

I also suggested that many blacks now enjoy middle class privileges. "Many" is subjective, and I have no data to prove my point, and in fact my point may not be true. Not all that long ago we never saw people of color on national TV news broadcasts. More and more blacks (mostly women) are attending four year college programs. I see more black doctors now than I did 30 years ago. I see more blacks in "the trades" (40 years ago not many blacks were members of the IBEW Union...this I know to be a fact). Still...and most important, there is no doubt in my mind that blacks continue to suffer prejudice, injustice, and many disadvantages. This is more complex than the space here allows, however. 

Also, I got some heat about my own personal views about our national flag, all the while trying to be clear that I understand others feel differently, and I accept the fact that we all get to make choices about how we respond to the public observations of our flag. 

Point: I, like everyone else here, express views that are personal an not always expressed as clearly as they might be. I don't feel I'm alone in this. I'm not attempting to do anything other than post my own views, and it pisses me off that those view get attacked in personal ways and often ignore the point that is obvious if not well stated.

Take a knee, don't take a knee. I will continue to be "upstanding" and honor our flag. YOU don't have to! Maybe I'm wrong in suggesting that many blacks have moved into "middle class" that previous generations seldom achieved. 

Only opinions. I continue to think that's what this space is for. I don't enjoy the back biting negative responses to those posts. 

Criticize to your hearts content, but consider the content of the posts before rushing to find fault simply because it was posted by "Wonky".


Take a knee, don't take a knee. I will continue to be "upstanding" and honor our flag. YOU don't have to!


Not sure who you are talking to but what I see wrong about what you said is the assumption you made.

And that is YOU will "continue to be "upstanding" and honor our flag"  who here exactly isn't upstanding?

Am I not an upstanding citizen because I see the reason, the intent by those taking a knee as not an action designed to disrespect anything other than racial injustice?
Reply
#92
(10-02-2017, 04:22 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(10-02-2017, 12:00 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(10-02-2017, 06:36 AM)bbqboy Wrote: Some things never change!  SmilingSmilingSmiling

Then consider making a change. Add some CONTENT to the conversation from time to time. 

I got body slammed for some comments in posts above. TVg suggested I was giving a history lesson about Rosa Parks and Gandhi. I hope a closer reading of that might show I was suggesting that the movement for independence in India and the civil rights movement in this country were long struggles about institutional oppression. The "take a knee" movement is, while worthy of attention, by contrast much less important. 

I also suggested that many blacks now enjoy middle class privileges. "Many" is subjective, and I have no data to prove my point, and in fact my point may not be true. Not all that long ago we never saw people of color on national TV news broadcasts. More and more blacks (mostly women) are attending four year college programs. I see more black doctors now than I did 30 years ago. I see more blacks in "the trades" (40 years ago not many blacks were members of the IBEW Union...this I know to be a fact). Still...and most important, there is no doubt in my mind that blacks continue to suffer prejudice, injustice, and many disadvantages. This is more complex than the space here allows, however. 

Also, I got some heat about my own personal views about our national flag, all the while trying to be clear that I understand others feel differently, and I accept the fact that we all get to make choices about how we respond to the public observations of our flag. 

Point: I, like everyone else here, express views that are personal an not always expressed as clearly as they might be. I don't feel I'm alone in this. I'm not attempting to do anything other than post my own views, and it pisses me off that those view get attacked in personal ways and often ignore the point that is obvious if not well stated.

Take a knee, don't take a knee. I will continue to be "upstanding" and honor our flag. YOU don't have to! Maybe I'm wrong in suggesting that many blacks have moved into "middle class" that previous generations seldom achieved. 

Only opinions. I continue to think that's what this space is for. I don't enjoy the back biting negative responses to those posts. 

Criticize to your hearts content, but consider the content of the posts before rushing to find fault simply because it was posted by "Wonky".


Take a knee, don't take a knee. I will continue to be "upstanding" and honor our flag. YOU don't have to!


Not sure who you are talking to but what I see wrong about what you said is the assumption you made.

And that is YOU will "continue to be "upstanding" and honor our flag"  who here exactly isn't upstanding?

Am I not an upstanding citizen because I see the reason, the intent by those taking a knee as not an action designed to disrespect anything other than racial injustice?

Here is the issue, and the FACT.  They claim to be doing this to support the effort of Kaepernick.  His own words, when asked why he kneeled was that he would not respect the SYMBOLS of a country that [blah blah blah]. The original intent of the kneeling was SPECIFIED toward the flag and anthem.  The sheep that followed may not understand that, and might actually believe what YOU appear to believe, but his own words were meant to be a statement against those two things.  Another point to consider, he did it because he was upset about the "hands up, don't shoot" rhetoric surrounding the Michael Brown incident, which as we all know (or SHOULD know), never even happened.

So the movement started with a lie, then aimed at the flag and and national anthem, and now everyone "supporting" it are claiming NONE of what I just said is true.....

It's very fucked up.
Reply
#93
(10-02-2017, 05:07 PM)Hugo Wrote:
(10-02-2017, 04:22 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(10-02-2017, 12:00 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(10-02-2017, 06:36 AM)bbqboy Wrote: Some things never change!  SmilingSmilingSmiling

Then consider making a change. Add some CONTENT to the conversation from time to time. 

I got body slammed for some comments in posts above. TVg suggested I was giving a history lesson about Rosa Parks and Gandhi. I hope a closer reading of that might show I was suggesting that the movement for independence in India and the civil rights movement in this country were long struggles about institutional oppression. The "take a knee" movement is, while worthy of attention, by contrast much less important. 

I also suggested that many blacks now enjoy middle class privileges. "Many" is subjective, and I have no data to prove my point, and in fact my point may not be true. Not all that long ago we never saw people of color on national TV news broadcasts. More and more blacks (mostly women) are attending four year college programs. I see more black doctors now than I did 30 years ago. I see more blacks in "the trades" (40 years ago not many blacks were members of the IBEW Union...this I know to be a fact). Still...and most important, there is no doubt in my mind that blacks continue to suffer prejudice, injustice, and many disadvantages. This is more complex than the space here allows, however. 

Also, I got some heat about my own personal views about our national flag, all the while trying to be clear that I understand others feel differently, and I accept the fact that we all get to make choices about how we respond to the public observations of our flag. 

Point: I, like everyone else here, express views that are personal an not always expressed as clearly as they might be. I don't feel I'm alone in this. I'm not attempting to do anything other than post my own views, and it pisses me off that those view get attacked in personal ways and often ignore the point that is obvious if not well stated.

Take a knee, don't take a knee. I will continue to be "upstanding" and honor our flag. YOU don't have to! Maybe I'm wrong in suggesting that many blacks have moved into "middle class" that previous generations seldom achieved. 

Only opinions. I continue to think that's what this space is for. I don't enjoy the back biting negative responses to those posts. 

Criticize to your hearts content, but consider the content of the posts before rushing to find fault simply because it was posted by "Wonky".


Take a knee, don't take a knee. I will continue to be "upstanding" and honor our flag. YOU don't have to!


Not sure who you are talking to but what I see wrong about what you said is the assumption you made.

And that is YOU will "continue to be "upstanding" and honor our flag"  who here exactly isn't upstanding?

Am I not an upstanding citizen because I see the reason, the intent by those taking a knee as not an action designed to disrespect anything other than racial injustice?

Here is the issue, and the FACT.  They claim to be doing this to support the effort of Kaepernick.  His own words, when asked why he kneeled was that he would not respect the SYMBOLS of a country that [blah blah blah]. The original intent of the kneeling was SPECIFIED toward the flag and anthem.  The sheep that followed may not understand that, and might actually believe what YOU appear to believe, but his own words were meant to be a statement against those two things.  Another point to consider, he did it because he was upset about the "hands up, don't shoot" rhetoric surrounding the Michael Brown incident, which as we all know (or SHOULD know), never even happened.

So the movement started with a lie, then aimed at the flag and and national anthem, and now everyone "supporting" it are claiming NONE of what I just said is true.....

It's very fucked up.

Yeah, I think it's kind of fucked up too.
But, I'm not going to quarrel with those who don't want to honor the flag. They have that "right". 
But, I chose to "be upstanding" and will rise and hold my hand over my heart as the anthem is played.
And TV, there are some folks here who suggest not respecting the symbol our flag represents is okay. I don't agree, but also respect their choice. Not real happy about it, but respect it. 
(And I would have no problem if we simply did not have the ceremony at ball games)
Reply
#94
(10-02-2017, 05:07 PM)Hugo Wrote:
(10-02-2017, 04:22 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(10-02-2017, 12:00 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(10-02-2017, 06:36 AM)bbqboy Wrote: Some things never change!  SmilingSmilingSmiling

Then consider making a change. Add some CONTENT to the conversation from time to time. 

I got body slammed for some comments in posts above. TVg suggested I was giving a history lesson about Rosa Parks and Gandhi. I hope a closer reading of that might show I was suggesting that the movement for independence in India and the civil rights movement in this country were long struggles about institutional oppression. The "take a knee" movement is, while worthy of attention, by contrast much less important. 

I also suggested that many blacks now enjoy middle class privileges. "Many" is subjective, and I have no data to prove my point, and in fact my point may not be true. Not all that long ago we never saw people of color on national TV news broadcasts. More and more blacks (mostly women) are attending four year college programs. I see more black doctors now than I did 30 years ago. I see more blacks in "the trades" (40 years ago not many blacks were members of the IBEW Union...this I know to be a fact). Still...and most important, there is no doubt in my mind that blacks continue to suffer prejudice, injustice, and many disadvantages. This is more complex than the space here allows, however. 

Also, I got some heat about my own personal views about our national flag, all the while trying to be clear that I understand others feel differently, and I accept the fact that we all get to make choices about how we respond to the public observations of our flag. 

Point: I, like everyone else here, express views that are personal an not always expressed as clearly as they might be. I don't feel I'm alone in this. I'm not attempting to do anything other than post my own views, and it pisses me off that those view get attacked in personal ways and often ignore the point that is obvious if not well stated.

Take a knee, don't take a knee. I will continue to be "upstanding" and honor our flag. YOU don't have to! Maybe I'm wrong in suggesting that many blacks have moved into "middle class" that previous generations seldom achieved. 

Only opinions. I continue to think that's what this space is for. I don't enjoy the back biting negative responses to those posts. 

Criticize to your hearts content, but consider the content of the posts before rushing to find fault simply because it was posted by "Wonky".


Take a knee, don't take a knee. I will continue to be "upstanding" and honor our flag. YOU don't have to!


Not sure who you are talking to but what I see wrong about what you said is the assumption you made.

And that is YOU will "continue to be "upstanding" and honor our flag"  who here exactly isn't upstanding?

Am I not an upstanding citizen because I see the reason, the intent by those taking a knee as not an action designed to disrespect anything other than racial injustice?

Here is the issue, and the FACT.  They claim to be doing this to support the effort of Kaepernick.  His own words, when asked why he kneeled was that he would not respect the SYMBOLS of a country that [blah blah blah]. The original intent of the kneeling was SPECIFIED toward the flag and anthem.  The sheep that followed may not understand that, and might actually believe what YOU appear to believe, but his own words were meant to be a statement against those two things.  Another point to consider, he did it because he was upset about the "hands up, don't shoot" rhetoric surrounding the Michael Brown incident, which as we all know (or SHOULD know), never even happened.
when asked why he kneeled was that he would not respect the SYMBOLS of a country that [blah blah blah]. , then aimed at the flag and and national anthem, and now everyone "supporting" it are claiming NONE of what I just said is true.....

It's very fucked up.

when asked why he kneeled was that he would not respect the SYMBOLS of a country that [blah blah blah].

So what. That STILL does not mean what you want to claim it means. Who cares if the flag is a symbol ? The guy explained what he was doing and it didn't have ANYTHING to do with what so many claim.
That he disrespected soldiers or those who gave their lives.


So the movement started with a lie

 
How in the hell could you know that? Is Kaipernic a friend of yours? I think he genuinely feels that blacks are being murdered by racist cops.
Whether that is true or not is irrelevant. That's what he believes so he's no liar.
Reply
#95
(10-02-2017, 06:01 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(10-02-2017, 05:07 PM)Hugo Wrote:
(10-02-2017, 04:22 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(10-02-2017, 12:00 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(10-02-2017, 06:36 AM)bbqboy Wrote: Some things never change!  SmilingSmilingSmiling

Then consider making a change. Add some CONTENT to the conversation from time to time. 

I got body slammed for some comments in posts above. TVg suggested I was giving a history lesson about Rosa Parks and Gandhi. I hope a closer reading of that might show I was suggesting that the movement for independence in India and the civil rights movement in this country were long struggles about institutional oppression. The "take a knee" movement is, while worthy of attention, by contrast much less important. 

I also suggested that many blacks now enjoy middle class privileges. "Many" is subjective, and I have no data to prove my point, and in fact my point may not be true. Not all that long ago we never saw people of color on national TV news broadcasts. More and more blacks (mostly women) are attending four year college programs. I see more black doctors now than I did 30 years ago. I see more blacks in "the trades" (40 years ago not many blacks were members of the IBEW Union...this I know to be a fact). Still...and most important, there is no doubt in my mind that blacks continue to suffer prejudice, injustice, and many disadvantages. This is more complex than the space here allows, however. 

Also, I got some heat about my own personal views about our national flag, all the while trying to be clear that I understand others feel differently, and I accept the fact that we all get to make choices about how we respond to the public observations of our flag. 

Point: I, like everyone else here, express views that are personal an not always expressed as clearly as they might be. I don't feel I'm alone in this. I'm not attempting to do anything other than post my own views, and it pisses me off that those view get attacked in personal ways and often ignore the point that is obvious if not well stated.

Take a knee, don't take a knee. I will continue to be "upstanding" and honor our flag. YOU don't have to! Maybe I'm wrong in suggesting that many blacks have moved into "middle class" that previous generations seldom achieved. 

Only opinions. I continue to think that's what this space is for. I don't enjoy the back biting negative responses to those posts. 

Criticize to your hearts content, but consider the content of the posts before rushing to find fault simply because it was posted by "Wonky".


Take a knee, don't take a knee. I will continue to be "upstanding" and honor our flag. YOU don't have to!


Not sure who you are talking to but what I see wrong about what you said is the assumption you made.

And that is YOU will "continue to be "upstanding" and honor our flag"  who here exactly isn't upstanding?

Am I not an upstanding citizen because I see the reason, the intent by those taking a knee as not an action designed to disrespect anything other than racial injustice?

Here is the issue, and the FACT.  They claim to be doing this to support the effort of Kaepernick.  His own words, when asked why he kneeled was that he would not respect the SYMBOLS of a country that [blah blah blah]. The original intent of the kneeling was SPECIFIED toward the flag and anthem.  The sheep that followed may not understand that, and might actually believe what YOU appear to believe, but his own words were meant to be a statement against those two things.  Another point to consider, he did it because he was upset about the "hands up, don't shoot" rhetoric surrounding the Michael Brown incident, which as we all know (or SHOULD know), never even happened.
when asked why he kneeled was that he would not respect the SYMBOLS of a country that [blah blah blah]. , then aimed at the flag and and national anthem, and now everyone "supporting" it are claiming NONE of what I just said is true.....

It's very fucked up.

when asked why he kneeled was that he would not respect the SYMBOLS of a country that [blah blah blah].

So what. That STILL does not mean what you want to claim it means. Who cares if the flag is a symbol ? The guy explained what he was doing and it didn't have ANYTHING to do with what so many claim.
That he disrespected soldiers or those who gave their lives.


So the movement started with a lie

 
How in the hell could you know that? Is Kaipernic a friend of yours? I think he genuinely feels that blacks are being murdered by racist cops.
Whether that is true or not is irrelevant. That's what he believes so he's no liar.

Well said! (You're wife wrote it, didn't she?  Razz

Kaipernic (change it for Christ's sake  Smiling ) has ever right to "take a knee" and not pay respects to the symbol of our country when he feels that blacks are murdered by racist cops. It's a fact: Some blacks have been shot down by racist cops. Some white guys have been shot down by stupid cops. Some Mexican dudes have been shot down by racist cops.  
There are too damn many untrained, underpaid, dumb cops out there. That said, most cops are responsible, well trained, and provide a valuable service to our communities and don't shoot down innocent people. (And by the way, a few good cops have been shot dead by not so good black guys) 

So football players, owners, and everyone else have the right to not pay tribute to our flag. 

But some of us feel that while they have the right, it's just "a bridge too far". We respect their right, but wish they would find another way to protest the tragic problems we all agree are real. 

So, "they" can take a knee, I can continue to salute the flag of the country (imperfect as it is) that provides me with so very much. (I've SEEN life in other countries!)
Reply
#96
(10-02-2017, 06:29 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(10-02-2017, 06:01 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(10-02-2017, 05:07 PM)Hugo Wrote:
(10-02-2017, 04:22 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(10-02-2017, 12:00 PM)Wonky3 Wrote: Then consider making a change. Add some CONTENT to the conversation from time to time. 

I got body slammed for some comments in posts above. TVg suggested I was giving a history lesson about Rosa Parks and Gandhi. I hope a closer reading of that might show I was suggesting that the movement for independence in India and the civil rights movement in this country were long struggles about institutional oppression. The "take a knee" movement is, while worthy of attention, by contrast much less important. 

I also suggested that many blacks now enjoy middle class privileges. "Many" is subjective, and I have no data to prove my point, and in fact my point may not be true. Not all that long ago we never saw people of color on national TV news broadcasts. More and more blacks (mostly women) are attending four year college programs. I see more black doctors now than I did 30 years ago. I see more blacks in "the trades" (40 years ago not many blacks were members of the IBEW Union...this I know to be a fact). Still...and most important, there is no doubt in my mind that blacks continue to suffer prejudice, injustice, and many disadvantages. This is more complex than the space here allows, however. 

Also, I got some heat about my own personal views about our national flag, all the while trying to be clear that I understand others feel differently, and I accept the fact that we all get to make choices about how we respond to the public observations of our flag. 

Point: I, like everyone else here, express views that are personal an not always expressed as clearly as they might be. I don't feel I'm alone in this. I'm not attempting to do anything other than post my own views, and it pisses me off that those view get attacked in personal ways and often ignore the point that is obvious if not well stated.

Take a knee, don't take a knee. I will continue to be "upstanding" and honor our flag. YOU don't have to! Maybe I'm wrong in suggesting that many blacks have moved into "middle class" that previous generations seldom achieved. 

Only opinions. I continue to think that's what this space is for. I don't enjoy the back biting negative responses to those posts. 

Criticize to your hearts content, but consider the content of the posts before rushing to find fault simply because it was posted by "Wonky".


Take a knee, don't take a knee. I will continue to be "upstanding" and honor our flag. YOU don't have to!


Not sure who you are talking to but what I see wrong about what you said is the assumption you made.

And that is YOU will "continue to be "upstanding" and honor our flag"  who here exactly isn't upstanding?

Am I not an upstanding citizen because I see the reason, the intent by those taking a knee as not an action designed to disrespect anything other than racial injustice?

Here is the issue, and the FACT.  They claim to be doing this to support the effort of Kaepernick.  His own words, when asked why he kneeled was that he would not respect the SYMBOLS of a country that [blah blah blah]. The original intent of the kneeling was SPECIFIED toward the flag and anthem.  The sheep that followed may not understand that, and might actually believe what YOU appear to believe, but his own words were meant to be a statement against those two things.  Another point to consider, he did it because he was upset about the "hands up, don't shoot" rhetoric surrounding the Michael Brown incident, which as we all know (or SHOULD know), never even happened.
when asked why he kneeled was that he would not respect the SYMBOLS of a country that [blah blah blah]. , then aimed at the flag and and national anthem, and now everyone "supporting" it are claiming NONE of what I just said is true.....

It's very fucked up.

when asked why he kneeled was that he would not respect the SYMBOLS of a country that [blah blah blah].

So what. That STILL does not mean what you want to claim it means. Who cares if the flag is a symbol ? The guy explained what he was doing and it didn't have ANYTHING to do with what so many claim.
That he disrespected soldiers or those who gave their lives.


So the movement started with a lie

 
How in the hell could you know that? Is Kaipernic a friend of yours? I think he genuinely feels that blacks are being murdered by racist cops.
Whether that is true or not is irrelevant. That's what he believes so he's no liar.

Well said! (You're wife wrote it, didn't she?  Razz

Kaipernic (change it for Christ's sake  Smiling ) has ever right to "take a knee" and not pay respects to the symbol of our country when he feels that blacks are murdered by racist cops. It's a fact: Some blacks have been shot down by racist cops. Some white guys have been shot down by stupid cops. Some Mexican dudes have been shot down by racist cops.  
There are too damn many untrained, underpaid, dumb cops out there. That said, most cops are responsible, well trained, and provide a valuable service to our communities and don't shoot down innocent people. (And by the way, a few good cops have been shot dead by not so good black guys) 

So football players, owners, and everyone else have the right to not pay tribute to our flag. 

But some of us feel that while they have the right, it's just "a bridge too far". We respect their right, but wish they would find another way to protest the tragic problems we all agree are real. 

So, "they" can take a knee, I can continue to salute the flag of the country (imperfect as it is) that provides me with so very much. (I've SEEN life in other countries!)

But some of us feel that while they have the right, it's just "a bridge too far". We respect their right, but wish they would find another way to protest the tragic problems we all agree are real. 


So, "they" can take a knee, I can continue to salute the flag of the country (imperfect as it is) that provides me with so very much. (I've SEEN life in other countries!)

I agree and me too.
Reply
#97
(10-02-2017, 06:01 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(10-02-2017, 05:07 PM)Hugo Wrote:
(10-02-2017, 04:22 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(10-02-2017, 12:00 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(10-02-2017, 06:36 AM)bbqboy Wrote: Some things never change!  SmilingSmilingSmiling

Then consider making a change. Add some CONTENT to the conversation from time to time. 

I got body slammed for some comments in posts above. TVg suggested I was giving a history lesson about Rosa Parks and Gandhi. I hope a closer reading of that might show I was suggesting that the movement for independence in India and the civil rights movement in this country were long struggles about institutional oppression. The "take a knee" movement is, while worthy of attention, by contrast much less important. 

I also suggested that many blacks now enjoy middle class privileges. "Many" is subjective, and I have no data to prove my point, and in fact my point may not be true. Not all that long ago we never saw people of color on national TV news broadcasts. More and more blacks (mostly women) are attending four year college programs. I see more black doctors now than I did 30 years ago. I see more blacks in "the trades" (40 years ago not many blacks were members of the IBEW Union...this I know to be a fact). Still...and most important, there is no doubt in my mind that blacks continue to suffer prejudice, injustice, and many disadvantages. This is more complex than the space here allows, however. 

Also, I got some heat about my own personal views about our national flag, all the while trying to be clear that I understand others feel differently, and I accept the fact that we all get to make choices about how we respond to the public observations of our flag. 

Point: I, like everyone else here, express views that are personal an not always expressed as clearly as they might be. I don't feel I'm alone in this. I'm not attempting to do anything other than post my own views, and it pisses me off that those view get attacked in personal ways and often ignore the point that is obvious if not well stated.

Take a knee, don't take a knee. I will continue to be "upstanding" and honor our flag. YOU don't have to! Maybe I'm wrong in suggesting that many blacks have moved into "middle class" that previous generations seldom achieved. 

Only opinions. I continue to think that's what this space is for. I don't enjoy the back biting negative responses to those posts. 

Criticize to your hearts content, but consider the content of the posts before rushing to find fault simply because it was posted by "Wonky".


Take a knee, don't take a knee. I will continue to be "upstanding" and honor our flag. YOU don't have to!


Not sure who you are talking to but what I see wrong about what you said is the assumption you made.

And that is YOU will "continue to be "upstanding" and honor our flag"  who here exactly isn't upstanding?

Am I not an upstanding citizen because I see the reason, the intent by those taking a knee as not an action designed to disrespect anything other than racial injustice?

Here is the issue, and the FACT.  They claim to be doing this to support the effort of Kaepernick.  His own words, when asked why he kneeled was that he would not respect the SYMBOLS of a country that [blah blah blah]. The original intent of the kneeling was SPECIFIED toward the flag and anthem.  The sheep that followed may not understand that, and might actually believe what YOU appear to believe, but his own words were meant to be a statement against those two things.  Another point to consider, he did it because he was upset about the "hands up, don't shoot" rhetoric surrounding the Michael Brown incident, which as we all know (or SHOULD know), never even happened.
when asked why he kneeled was that he would not respect the SYMBOLS of a country that [blah blah blah]. , then aimed at the flag and and national anthem, and now everyone "supporting" it are claiming NONE of what I just said is true.....

It's very fucked up.

when asked why he kneeled was that he would not respect the SYMBOLS of a country that [blah blah blah].

So what. That STILL does not mean what you want to claim it means. Who cares if the flag is a symbol ? The guy explained what he was doing and it didn't have ANYTHING to do with what so many claim.
That he disrespected soldiers or those who gave their lives.


So the movement started with a lie

 
How in the hell could you know that? Is Kaipernic a friend of yours? I think he genuinely feels that blacks are being murdered by racist cops.
Whether that is true or not is irrelevant. That's what he believes so he's no liar.

1. "hands up, don't shoot" rhetoric surrounding the Michael Brown incident, which as we all know (or SHOULD know), never even happened.

[b]2. So the movement started with a lie.[/b]

What I said had nothing to do with "knowing" Kaepernick.  HIS reason for starting the whole damn thing is BASED ON A FUCKING LIE.
Reply
#98
(10-02-2017, 07:15 PM)Hugo Wrote:
(10-02-2017, 06:01 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(10-02-2017, 05:07 PM)Hugo Wrote:
(10-02-2017, 04:22 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(10-02-2017, 12:00 PM)Wonky3 Wrote: Then consider making a change. Add some CONTENT to the conversation from time to time. 

I got body slammed for some comments in posts above. TVg suggested I was giving a history lesson about Rosa Parks and Gandhi. I hope a closer reading of that might show I was suggesting that the movement for independence in India and the civil rights movement in this country were long struggles about institutional oppression. The "take a knee" movement is, while worthy of attention, by contrast much less important. 

I also suggested that many blacks now enjoy middle class privileges. "Many" is subjective, and I have no data to prove my point, and in fact my point may not be true. Not all that long ago we never saw people of color on national TV news broadcasts. More and more blacks (mostly women) are attending four year college programs. I see more black doctors now than I did 30 years ago. I see more blacks in "the trades" (40 years ago not many blacks were members of the IBEW Union...this I know to be a fact). Still...and most important, there is no doubt in my mind that blacks continue to suffer prejudice, injustice, and many disadvantages. This is more complex than the space here allows, however. 

Also, I got some heat about my own personal views about our national flag, all the while trying to be clear that I understand others feel differently, and I accept the fact that we all get to make choices about how we respond to the public observations of our flag. 

Point: I, like everyone else here, express views that are personal an not always expressed as clearly as they might be. I don't feel I'm alone in this. I'm not attempting to do anything other than post my own views, and it pisses me off that those view get attacked in personal ways and often ignore the point that is obvious if not well stated.

Take a knee, don't take a knee. I will continue to be "upstanding" and honor our flag. YOU don't have to! Maybe I'm wrong in suggesting that many blacks have moved into "middle class" that previous generations seldom achieved. 

Only opinions. I continue to think that's what this space is for. I don't enjoy the back biting negative responses to those posts. 

Criticize to your hearts content, but consider the content of the posts before rushing to find fault simply because it was posted by "Wonky".


Take a knee, don't take a knee. I will continue to be "upstanding" and honor our flag. YOU don't have to!


Not sure who you are talking to but what I see wrong about what you said is the assumption you made.

And that is YOU will "continue to be "upstanding" and honor our flag"  who here exactly isn't upstanding?

Am I not an upstanding citizen because I see the reason, the intent by those taking a knee as not an action designed to disrespect anything other than racial injustice?

Here is the issue, and the FACT.  They claim to be doing this to support the effort of Kaepernick.  His own words, when asked why he kneeled was that he would not respect the SYMBOLS of a country that [blah blah blah]. The original intent of the kneeling was SPECIFIED toward the flag and anthem.  The sheep that followed may not understand that, and might actually believe what YOU appear to believe, but his own words were meant to be a statement against those two things.  Another point to consider, he did it because he was upset about the "hands up, don't shoot" rhetoric surrounding the Michael Brown incident, which as we all know (or SHOULD know), never even happened.
when asked why he kneeled was that he would not respect the SYMBOLS of a country that [blah blah blah]. , then aimed at the flag and and national anthem, and now everyone "supporting" it are claiming NONE of what I just said is true.....

It's very fucked up.

when asked why he kneeled was that he would not respect the SYMBOLS of a country that [blah blah blah].

So what. That STILL does not mean what you want to claim it means. Who cares if the flag is a symbol ? The guy explained what he was doing and it didn't have ANYTHING to do with what so many claim.
That he disrespected soldiers or those who gave their lives.


So the movement started with a lie

 
How in the hell could you know that? Is Kaipernic a friend of yours? I think he genuinely feels that blacks are being murdered by racist cops.
Whether that is true or not is irrelevant. That's what he believes so he's no liar.

1. "hands up, don't shoot" rhetoric surrounding the Michael Brown incident, which as we all know (or SHOULD know), never even happened.

[b]2. So the movement started with a lie.[/b]

What I said had nothing to do with "knowing" Kaepernick.  HIS reason for starting the whole damn thing is BASED ON A FUCKING LIE.

You would be right if the Michael Brown incident was the only single incident he knew of that he believed to be a racial injustice.
But you must know that's not true at all.

You stated the whole incident was based on a lie. There's no way in hell this was ALL about Michael Brown.
Reply
#99
(10-02-2017, 05:07 PM)Hugo Wrote:
(10-02-2017, 04:22 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(10-02-2017, 12:00 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(10-02-2017, 06:36 AM)bbqboy Wrote: Some things never change!  SmilingSmilingSmiling

Then consider making a change. Add some CONTENT to the conversation from time to time. 

I got body slammed for some comments in posts above. TVg suggested I was giving a history lesson about Rosa Parks and Gandhi. I hope a closer reading of that might show I was suggesting that the movement for independence in India and the civil rights movement in this country were long struggles about institutional oppression. The "take a knee" movement is, while worthy of attention, by contrast much less important. 

I also suggested that many blacks now enjoy middle class privileges. "Many" is subjective, and I have no data to prove my point, and in fact my point may not be true. Not all that long ago we never saw people of color on national TV news broadcasts. More and more blacks (mostly women) are attending four year college programs. I see more black doctors now than I did 30 years ago. I see more blacks in "the trades" (40 years ago not many blacks were members of the IBEW Union...this I know to be a fact). Still...and most important, there is no doubt in my mind that blacks continue to suffer prejudice, injustice, and many disadvantages. This is more complex than the space here allows, however. 

Also, I got some heat about my own personal views about our national flag, all the while trying to be clear that I understand others feel differently, and I accept the fact that we all get to make choices about how we respond to the public observations of our flag. 

Point: I, like everyone else here, express views that are personal an not always expressed as clearly as they might be. I don't feel I'm alone in this. I'm not attempting to do anything other than post my own views, and it pisses me off that those view get attacked in personal ways and often ignore the point that is obvious if not well stated.

Take a knee, don't take a knee. I will continue to be "upstanding" and honor our flag. YOU don't have to! Maybe I'm wrong in suggesting that many blacks have moved into "middle class" that previous generations seldom achieved. 

Only opinions. I continue to think that's what this space is for. I don't enjoy the back biting negative responses to those posts. 

Criticize to your hearts content, but consider the content of the posts before rushing to find fault simply because it was posted by "Wonky".


Take a knee, don't take a knee. I will continue to be "upstanding" and honor our flag. YOU don't have to!


Not sure who you are talking to but what I see wrong about what you said is the assumption you made.

And that is YOU will "continue to be "upstanding" and honor our flag"  who here exactly isn't upstanding?

Am I not an upstanding citizen because I see the reason, the intent by those taking a knee as not an action designed to disrespect anything other than racial injustice?

Here is the issue, and the FACT.  They claim to be doing this to support the effort of Kaepernick.  His own words, when asked why he kneeled was that he would not respect the SYMBOLS of a country that [blah blah blah]. The original intent of the kneeling was SPECIFIED toward the flag and anthem.  The sheep that followed may not understand that, and might actually believe what YOU appear to believe, but his own words were meant to be a statement against those two things.  Another point to consider, he did it because he was upset about the "hands up, don't shoot" rhetoric surrounding the Michael Brown incident, which as we all know (or SHOULD know), never even happened.

So the movement started with a lie, then aimed at the flag and and national anthem, and now everyone "supporting" it are claiming NONE of what I just said is true.....

It's very fucked up.

You REALLY need to stop listening to your fake news sites. PLEASE LISTEN to his OWN WORDS, not what someone who TOLD you what he said. For Christs sake Larry!!!!



You can't cherry pick some words and twist them to meet your needs. Wow, just wow!
Reply
(10-02-2017, 08:02 PM)Valuesize Wrote:
(10-02-2017, 05:07 PM)Hugo Wrote:
(10-02-2017, 04:22 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(10-02-2017, 12:00 PM)Wonky3 Wrote:
(10-02-2017, 06:36 AM)bbqboy Wrote: Some things never change!  SmilingSmilingSmiling

Then consider making a change. Add some CONTENT to the conversation from time to time. 

I got body slammed for some comments in posts above. TVg suggested I was giving a history lesson about Rosa Parks and Gandhi. I hope a closer reading of that might show I was suggesting that the movement for independence in India and the civil rights movement in this country were long struggles about institutional oppression. The "take a knee" movement is, while worthy of attention, by contrast much less important. 

I also suggested that many blacks now enjoy middle class privileges. "Many" is subjective, and I have no data to prove my point, and in fact my point may not be true. Not all that long ago we never saw people of color on national TV news broadcasts. More and more blacks (mostly women) are attending four year college programs. I see more black doctors now than I did 30 years ago. I see more blacks in "the trades" (40 years ago not many blacks were members of the IBEW Union...this I know to be a fact). Still...and most important, there is no doubt in my mind that blacks continue to suffer prejudice, injustice, and many disadvantages. This is more complex than the space here allows, however. 

Also, I got some heat about my own personal views about our national flag, all the while trying to be clear that I understand others feel differently, and I accept the fact that we all get to make choices about how we respond to the public observations of our flag. 

Point: I, like everyone else here, express views that are personal an not always expressed as clearly as they might be. I don't feel I'm alone in this. I'm not attempting to do anything other than post my own views, and it pisses me off that those view get attacked in personal ways and often ignore the point that is obvious if not well stated.

Take a knee, don't take a knee. I will continue to be "upstanding" and honor our flag. YOU don't have to! Maybe I'm wrong in suggesting that many blacks have moved into "middle class" that previous generations seldom achieved. 

Only opinions. I continue to think that's what this space is for. I don't enjoy the back biting negative responses to those posts. 

Criticize to your hearts content, but consider the content of the posts before rushing to find fault simply because it was posted by "Wonky".


Take a knee, don't take a knee. I will continue to be "upstanding" and honor our flag. YOU don't have to!


Not sure who you are talking to but what I see wrong about what you said is the assumption you made.

And that is YOU will "continue to be "upstanding" and honor our flag"  who here exactly isn't upstanding?

Am I not an upstanding citizen because I see the reason, the intent by those taking a knee as not an action designed to disrespect anything other than racial injustice?

Here is the issue, and the FACT.  They claim to be doing this to support the effort of Kaepernick.  His own words, when asked why he kneeled was that he would not respect the SYMBOLS of a country that [blah blah blah]. The original intent of the kneeling was SPECIFIED toward the flag and anthem.  The sheep that followed may not understand that, and might actually believe what YOU appear to believe, but his own words were meant to be a statement against those two things.  Another point to consider, he did it because he was upset about the "hands up, don't shoot" rhetoric surrounding the Michael Brown incident, which as we all know (or SHOULD know), never even happened.

So the movement started with a lie, then aimed at the flag and and national anthem, and now everyone "supporting" it are claiming NONE of what I just said is true.....

It's very fucked up.

You REALLY need to stop listening to your fake news sites. PLEASE LISTEN to his OWN WORDS, not what someone who TOLD you what he said. For Christs sake Larry!!!!



You can't cherry pick some words and twist them to meet your needs. Wow, just wow!

UM... Yes you can. Razz
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