I actually agree with Trump
(01-09-2019, 10:55 AM)GCG Wrote:
(01-09-2019, 10:33 AM)tvguy Wrote:
(01-08-2019, 08:06 PM)Someones Dad Wrote: 2008 Democratic Platform, President Obama's Platform.

What happened?

Immigration

America has always been a nation of immigrants. Over the years, millions of people have come here in the hope that in America, you can make it if you try. Each successive wave of immigrants has contributed to our country's rich culture, economy and spirit. Like the immigrants that came before them, today's immigrants will shape their own destinies and enrich our country.

Nonetheless, our current immigration system has been broken for far too long. We need comprehensive immigration reform, not just piecemeal efforts. We must work together to pass immigration reform in a way that unites this country, not in a way that divides us by playing on our worst instincts and fears. We are committed to pursuing tough, practical, and humane immigration reform in the first year of the next administration.

We cannot continue to allow people to enter the United States undetected, undocumented, and unchecked. The American people are a welcoming and generous people, but those who enter our country's borders illegally, and those who employ them, disrespect the rule of the law. We need to secure our borders, and support additional personnel, infrastructure, and technology on the border and at our ports of entry. We need additional Customs and Border Protection agents equipped with better technology and real-time intelligence. We need to dismantle human smuggling organizations, combating the crime associated with this trade. We also need to do more to promote economic development in migrant-sending nations, to reduce incentives to come to the United States illegally. And we need to crack down on employers who hire undocumented immigrants. It's a problem when we only enforce our laws against the immigrants themselves, with raids that are ineffective, tear apart families, and leave people detained without adequate access to counsel. We realize that employers need a method to verify whether their employees are legally eligible to work in the United States, and we will ensure that our system is accurate, fair to legal workers, safeguards people's privacy, and cannot be used to discriminate against workers.

We must also improve the legal immigration system, and make our nation's naturalization process fair and accessible to the thousands of legal permanent residents who are eager to become full Americans. We should fix the dysfunctional immigration bureaucracy that hampers family reunification, the cornerstone of our immigration policy for years. Given the importance of both keeping families together and supporting American businesses, we will increase the number of immigration visas for family members of people living here and for immigrants who meet the demand for jobs that employers cannot fill, as long as appropriate labor market protections and standards are in place. We will fight discrimination against Americans who have always played by our immigration rules but are sometimes treated as if they had not.

For the millions living here illegally but otherwise playing by the rules, we must require them to come out of the shadows and get right with the law. We support a system that requires undocumented immigrants who are in good standing to pay a fine, pay taxes, learn English, and go to the back of the line for the opportunity to become citizens. They are our neighbors, and we can help them become full tax-paying, law-abiding, productive members of society.
What are you trying to say? What's the red font supposed to mean?

Basically what's your point? That democrats are also for border security?

I'll take a stab at it... but I'm not sure if this is SD's point. 

1. Obama had 8 years to do something about an issue that he himself acknowledged as a problem. For the most part, no progress was made. Now Trump is trying to force some action... (whether or not the "wall" is anything beyond a demonstration of our country's desire to stem the tide can be argued). It's almost comical in that the overwhelming majority of Americans want this problem resolved but the powers that be will fight each other because they are more interested in their own power than in getting anything done.

We the people are just spectators in this absurd fighting and jockeying for the "win."
Makes sense to me.
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(01-09-2019, 11:01 AM)Someones Dad Wrote:
(01-09-2019, 10:33 AM)tvguy Wrote:
(01-08-2019, 08:06 PM)Someones Dad Wrote: 2008 Democratic Platform, President Obama's Platform.

What happened?

Immigration

America has always been a nation of immigrants. Over the years, millions of people have come here in the hope that in America, you can make it if you try. Each successive wave of immigrants has contributed to our country's rich culture, economy and spirit. Like the immigrants that came before them, today's immigrants will shape their own destinies and enrich our country.

Nonetheless, our current immigration system has been broken for far too long. We need comprehensive immigration reform, not just piecemeal efforts. We must work together to pass immigration reform in a way that unites this country, not in a way that divides us by playing on our worst instincts and fears. We are committed to pursuing tough, practical, and humane immigration reform in the first year of the next administration.

We cannot continue to allow people to enter the United States undetected, undocumented, and unchecked. The American people are a welcoming and generous people, but those who enter our country's borders illegally, and those who employ them, disrespect the rule of the law. We need to secure our borders, and support additional personnel, infrastructure, and technology on the border and at our ports of entry. We need additional Customs and Border Protection agents equipped with better technology and real-time intelligence. We need to dismantle human smuggling organizations, combating the crime associated with this trade. We also need to do more to promote economic development in migrant-sending nations, to reduce incentives to come to the United States illegally. And we need to crack down on employers who hire undocumented immigrants. It's a problem when we only enforce our laws against the immigrants themselves, with raids that are ineffective, tear apart families, and leave people detained without adequate access to counsel. We realize that employers need a method to verify whether their employees are legally eligible to work in the United States, and we will ensure that our system is accurate, fair to legal workers, safeguards people's privacy, and cannot be used to discriminate against workers.

We must also improve the legal immigration system, and make our nation's naturalization process fair and accessible to the thousands of legal permanent residents who are eager to become full Americans. We should fix the dysfunctional immigration bureaucracy that hampers family reunification, the cornerstone of our immigration policy for years. Given the importance of both keeping families together and supporting American businesses, we will increase the number of immigration visas for family members of people living here and for immigrants who meet the demand for jobs that employers cannot fill, as long as appropriate labor market protections and standards are in place. We will fight discrimination against Americans who have always played by our immigration rules but are sometimes treated as if they had not.

For the millions living here illegally but otherwise playing by the rules, we must require them to come out of the shadows and get right with the law. We support a system that requires undocumented immigrants who are in good standing to pay a fine, pay taxes, learn English, and go to the back of the line for the opportunity to become citizens. They are our neighbors, and we can help them become full tax-paying, law-abiding, productive members of society.
What are you trying to say? What's the red font supposed to mean?

Basically what's your point? That democrats are also for border security?

I'm saying that they used to agree with YOU.  Just not right now, because they can't allow (in their minds) a "win" for anything Trump wants to do, especially the one issue that got him elected.

That makes it purely political, and what is best for the Country be damned.
You would be correct IF Trumps wall was the exact same thing and "border security"

 I'm no expert but there are more options than just a wall. having said that I am pretty much in favor of walls fences or what ever it takes.

Maybe if Trump wasn't such a lying piece of shit more dems would want his wall.

In his speech he went overboard with hysteria and exaggerations about what  HIS wall will accomplish. He acts as if his wall will end our drug problems. That's absurd.
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It IS all about the Win. It's disgusting.
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This is strange. I thought trump was supposed to be some ube-negotiator. I'm not seeing any negotiating skill what-so-ever. He seems more like an extortionist now. If he doesn't get what he wants he's going to hurt people and that's all he's doing.

Unfortunately I don't see any change coming now that he's backed himself into a corner on national TV.
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(01-09-2019, 08:32 PM)Cuzz Wrote: This is strange. I thought trump was supposed to be some ube-negotiator. I'm not seeing any negotiating skill what-so-ever. He seems more like an extortionist now. If he doesn't get what he wants he's going to hurt people and that's all he's doing.

Unfortunately I don't see any change coming  now that he's backed himself into a corner on national TV.

This is it.  These are his mad negotiating skills. Walk out and ignore.  Wait for them to come to him.
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(01-09-2019, 08:32 PM)Cuzz Wrote: This is strange. I thought trump was supposed to be some ube-negotiator. I'm not seeing any negotiating skill what-so-ever. He seems more like an extortionist now. If he doesn't get what he wants he's going to hurt people and that's all he's doing.

Unfortunately I don't see any change coming  now that he's backed himself into a corner on national TV.

How can he negotiate when Pelosi says they won't give "one dollar" ?


 Unfortunately I don't see any change coming  now that he's backed himself into a corner on national TV.

A lot of people are hurting because of HIS shutdown. And as Taxpayers we are all losing money every day.
He wants to  make people believe it's the dems causing this. I doubt many are fooled other than trump ass kissers.
I think he will cave because the longer this goes on the more people are going to turn against him
Reply
(01-09-2019, 08:58 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(01-09-2019, 08:32 PM)Cuzz Wrote: This is strange. I thought trump was supposed to be some ube-negotiator. I'm not seeing any negotiating skill what-so-ever. He seems more like an extortionist now. If he doesn't get what he wants he's going to hurt people and that's all he's doing.

Unfortunately I don't see any change coming  now that he's backed himself into a corner on national TV.

How can he negotiate when Pelosi says they won't give "one dollar" ?


 Unfortunately I don't see any change coming  now that he's backed himself into a corner on national TV.

A lot of people are hurting because of HIS shutdown. And as Taxpayers we are all losing money every day.
He wants to  make people believe it's the dems causing this. I doubt many are fooled other than trump ass kissers.
I think he will cave because the longer this goes on the more people are going to turn against him

Well, I'm not a negotiator, but my notion would be to offer something the Democrats want? Just a thought. I think that would be better then hurting people who can't defend themselves.

Besides he already pretty much has agreement on the majority of what he wanted, tech goodies, more personnel, more judges, even some money for barriers.

With his ego and now that he's gone on national TV, he won't back down. My hope is in four Republicans now.
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(01-09-2019, 09:39 PM)Cuzz Wrote:
(01-09-2019, 08:58 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(01-09-2019, 08:32 PM)Cuzz Wrote: This is strange. I thought trump was supposed to be some ube-negotiator. I'm not seeing any negotiating skill what-so-ever. He seems more like an extortionist now. If he doesn't get what he wants he's going to hurt people and that's all he's doing.

Unfortunately I don't see any change coming  now that he's backed himself into a corner on national TV.

How can he negotiate when Pelosi says they won't give "one dollar" ?


 Unfortunately I don't see any change coming  now that he's backed himself into a corner on national TV.

A lot of people are hurting because of HIS shutdown. And as Taxpayers we are all losing money every day.
He wants to  make people believe it's the dems causing this. I doubt many are fooled other than trump ass kissers.
I think he will cave because the longer this goes on the more people are going to turn against him

Well, I'm not a negotiator, but my notion would be to offer something the Democrats want? Just a thought. I think that would be better then hurting people who can't defend themselves.

Besides he already pretty much has agreement on the majority of what he wanted, tech goodies, more personnel, more judges, even some money for barriers.

With his ego and now that he's gone on national TV, he won't back down. My hope is in four Republicans now.

Well, I'm not a negotiator, but my notion would be to offer something the Democrats want?

Yes I get that but He asked Pelosi ‘will you agree to my wall?’ She said no. And he just got up, and said, 'Well we’ve got nothing to discuss,'"


So why didn't SHE Throw HIM a bone? IMO neither one made any attempt to negotiate.
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How about health care for everybody, cut the defense budge in half, increase social programs, more money for schools, free college tuition, in exchange for the 5.7 billion for the wall.
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(01-09-2019, 09:56 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(01-09-2019, 09:39 PM)Cuzz Wrote:
(01-09-2019, 08:58 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(01-09-2019, 08:32 PM)Cuzz Wrote: This is strange. I thought trump was supposed to be some ube-negotiator. I'm not seeing any negotiating skill what-so-ever. He seems more like an extortionist now. If he doesn't get what he wants he's going to hurt people and that's all he's doing.

Unfortunately I don't see any change coming  now that he's backed himself into a corner on national TV.

How can he negotiate when Pelosi says they won't give "one dollar" ?


 Unfortunately I don't see any change coming  now that he's backed himself into a corner on national TV.

A lot of people are hurting because of HIS shutdown. And as Taxpayers we are all losing money every day.
He wants to  make people believe it's the dems causing this. I doubt many are fooled other than trump ass kissers.
I think he will cave because the longer this goes on the more people are going to turn against him

Well, I'm not a negotiator, but my notion would be to offer something the Democrats want? Just a thought. I think that would be better then hurting people who can't defend themselves.

Besides he already pretty much has agreement on the majority of what he wanted, tech goodies, more personnel, more judges, even some money for barriers.

With his ego and now that he's gone on national TV, he won't back down. My hope is in four Republicans now.

Well, I'm not a negotiator, but my notion would be to offer something the Democrats want?

Yes I get that but He asked Pelosi ‘will you agree to my wall?’ She said no. And he just got up, and said, 'Well we’ve got nothing to discuss,'"


So why didn't SHE Throw HIM a bone? IMO neither one made any attempt to negotiate.

tech goodies, more personnel, more judges, even some money for barriers ain't bone enough? Besides he claims to be the master negotiator, I'm still waiting for him to start negotiating instead of running away.
Reply
(01-09-2019, 10:29 PM)Cuzz Wrote:
(01-09-2019, 09:56 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(01-09-2019, 09:39 PM)Cuzz Wrote:
(01-09-2019, 08:58 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(01-09-2019, 08:32 PM)Cuzz Wrote: This is strange. I thought trump was supposed to be some ube-negotiator. I'm not seeing any negotiating skill what-so-ever. He seems more like an extortionist now. If he doesn't get what he wants he's going to hurt people and that's all he's doing.

Unfortunately I don't see any change coming  now that he's backed himself into a corner on national TV.

How can he negotiate when Pelosi says they won't give "one dollar" ?


 Unfortunately I don't see any change coming  now that he's backed himself into a corner on national TV.

A lot of people are hurting because of HIS shutdown. And as Taxpayers we are all losing money every day.
He wants to  make people believe it's the dems causing this. I doubt many are fooled other than trump ass kissers.
I think he will cave because the longer this goes on the more people are going to turn against him

Well, I'm not a negotiator, but my notion would be to offer something the Democrats want? Just a thought. I think that would be better then hurting people who can't defend themselves.

Besides he already pretty much has agreement on the majority of what he wanted, tech goodies, more personnel, more judges, even some money for barriers.

With his ego and now that he's gone on national TV, he won't back down. My hope is in four Republicans now.

Well, I'm not a negotiator, but my notion would be to offer something the Democrats want?

Yes I get that but He asked Pelosi ‘will you agree to my wall?’ She said no. And he just got up, and said, 'Well we’ve got nothing to discuss,'"


So why didn't SHE Throw HIM a bone? IMO neither one made any attempt to negotiate.

tech goodies, more personnel, more judges, even some money for barriers ain't bone enough? Besides he claims to be the master negotiator, I'm still waiting for him to start negotiating instead of running away.

tech goodies, more personnel, more judges, even some money for barriers ain't bone enough?

First I've head of all that especially money for barriers. Is a barrier moral?

More Judges??
Reply
(01-09-2019, 09:59 PM)chuck white Wrote: How about health care for everybody, cut the defense budge in half, increase social programs, more money for schools, free college tuition, in exchange for the 5.7 billion for the wall.

Or just ask trump to kill himself that would be just as likely Razz
Reply
(01-09-2019, 10:33 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(01-09-2019, 10:29 PM)Cuzz Wrote:
(01-09-2019, 09:56 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(01-09-2019, 09:39 PM)Cuzz Wrote:
(01-09-2019, 08:58 PM)tvguy Wrote: How can he negotiate when Pelosi says they won't give "one dollar" ?


 Unfortunately I don't see any change coming  now that he's backed himself into a corner on national TV.

A lot of people are hurting because of HIS shutdown. And as Taxpayers we are all losing money every day.
He wants to  make people believe it's the dems causing this. I doubt many are fooled other than trump ass kissers.
I think he will cave because the longer this goes on the more people are going to turn against him

Well, I'm not a negotiator, but my notion would be to offer something the Democrats want? Just a thought. I think that would be better then hurting people who can't defend themselves.

Besides he already pretty much has agreement on the majority of what he wanted, tech goodies, more personnel, more judges, even some money for barriers.

With his ego and now that he's gone on national TV, he won't back down. My hope is in four Republicans now.

Well, I'm not a negotiator, but my notion would be to offer something the Democrats want?

Yes I get that but He asked Pelosi ‘will you agree to my wall?’ She said no. And he just got up, and said, 'Well we’ve got nothing to discuss,'"


So why didn't SHE Throw HIM a bone? IMO neither one made any attempt to negotiate.

tech goodies, more personnel, more judges, even some money for barriers ain't bone enough? Besides he claims to be the master negotiator, I'm still waiting for him to start negotiating instead of running away.

tech goodies, more personnel, more judges, even some money for barriers ain't bone enough?

First I've head of all that especially money for barriers. Is a barrier moral?

More Judges??

Immigration judges, trump wants more. We really need more.

The Demo's have been agreeing with all that stuff for a while now. It's no secret.
Reply
(01-09-2019, 10:47 PM)Cuzz Wrote:
(01-09-2019, 10:33 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(01-09-2019, 10:29 PM)Cuzz Wrote:
(01-09-2019, 09:56 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(01-09-2019, 09:39 PM)Cuzz Wrote: Well, I'm not a negotiator, but my notion would be to offer something the Democrats want? Just a thought. I think that would be better then hurting people who can't defend themselves.

Besides he already pretty much has agreement on the majority of what he wanted, tech goodies, more personnel, more judges, even some money for barriers.

With his ego and now that he's gone on national TV, he won't back down. My hope is in four Republicans now.

Well, I'm not a negotiator, but my notion would be to offer something the Democrats want?

Yes I get that but He asked Pelosi ‘will you agree to my wall?’ She said no. And he just got up, and said, 'Well we’ve got nothing to discuss,'"


So why didn't SHE Throw HIM a bone? IMO neither one made any attempt to negotiate.

tech goodies, more personnel, more judges, even some money for barriers ain't bone enough? Besides he claims to be the master negotiator, I'm still waiting for him to start negotiating instead of running away.

tech goodies, more personnel, more judges, even some money for barriers ain't bone enough?

First I've head of all that especially money for barriers. Is a barrier moral?

More Judges??

Immigration judges, trump wants more. We really need more.

The Demo's have been agreeing with all that stuff for a while now. It's no secret.
So how much have the dems been willing to pay for all of that? What you describe sounds like the 2006 secure fence deal. 2.6 billion I think it was. Back then a WALL/fence/barrier was not immoral. Razz

Have they actually put a bill together with all of that and put it on the table like in 2006?
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(01-09-2019, 10:59 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(01-09-2019, 10:47 PM)Cuzz Wrote:
(01-09-2019, 10:33 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(01-09-2019, 10:29 PM)Cuzz Wrote:
(01-09-2019, 09:56 PM)tvguy Wrote: Well, I'm not a negotiator, but my notion would be to offer something the Democrats want?

Yes I get that but He asked Pelosi ‘will you agree to my wall?’ She said no. And he just got up, and said, 'Well we’ve got nothing to discuss,'"


So why didn't SHE Throw HIM a bone? IMO neither one made any attempt to negotiate.

tech goodies, more personnel, more judges, even some money for barriers ain't bone enough? Besides he claims to be the master negotiator, I'm still waiting for him to start negotiating instead of running away.

tech goodies, more personnel, more judges, even some money for barriers ain't bone enough?

First I've head of all that especially money for barriers. Is a barrier moral?

More Judges??

Immigration judges, trump wants more. We really need more.

The Demo's have been agreeing with all that stuff for a while now. It's no secret.
So how much have the dems been willing to pay for all of that? What you describe sounds like the 2006 secure fence deal. 2.6 billion I think it was. Back then a WALL/fence/barrier was not immoral. Razz

Have they actually put a bill together with all of that and put it on the table like in 2006?

How much? I don't know.. a lot? trumps numbers are 7.2B for that, not counting his 5.7B for the "wall" whatever he means by that. I wish he would define that again if he means something else besides the 3,000 miles he described before.
Reply
(01-09-2019, 10:34 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(01-09-2019, 09:59 PM)chuck white Wrote: How about health care for everybody, cut the defense budge in half, increase social programs, more money for schools, free college tuition, in exchange for the 5.7 billion for the wall.

Or just ask trump to kill himself that would be just as likely Razz

Hey if he wants to make a deal.
Reply
(01-09-2019, 08:58 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(01-09-2019, 08:32 PM)Cuzz Wrote: This is strange. I thought trump was supposed to be some ube-negotiator. I'm not seeing any negotiating skill what-so-ever. He seems more like an extortionist now. If he doesn't get what he wants he's going to hurt people and that's all he's doing.

Unfortunately I don't see any change coming  now that he's backed himself into a corner on national TV.

How can he negotiate when Pelosi says they won't give "one dollar" ?


 Unfortunately I don't see any change coming  now that he's backed himself into a corner on national TV.

A lot of people are hurting because of HIS shutdown. And as Taxpayers we are all losing money every day.
He wants to  make people believe it's the dems causing this. I doubt many are fooled other than trump ass kissers.
I think he will cave because the longer this goes on the more people are going to turn against him

I'm not so sure, as far as him caving, yes, maybe, but I don't think he is going to see a wave of people turning on him. He ran on a platform of building a wall, his supporters want a wall, After all the talk and no action from D's and R's alike on border security for years, people want tangible changes. I think more people will turn on him if he does cave.
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(01-09-2019, 08:32 PM)Cuzz Wrote: This is strange. I thought trump was supposed to be some ube-negotiator. I'm not seeing any negotiating skill what-so-ever. He seems more like an extortionist now. If he doesn't get what he wants he's going to hurt people and that's all he's doing.

Unfortunately I don't see any change coming now that he's backed himself into a corner on national TV.


How do you negotiate when the other party says no?

Shutdown showdown: Pelosi says 'no,' Trump says 'bye-bye'

By Jonathan Allen
WASHINGTON — President Donald Trump abruptly walked out of a closed-door meeting with congressional leaders Wednesday in the White House Situation Room after Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., said she wouldn't fund his border wall even if he ended the government shutdown.

"She said 'No,'" Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., said, adding that Trump slammed the table. "He said, 'Then we have nothing to discuss' ...He just walked out of the meeting.".....
(From NBC News)


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