Eagle point shooting
#21
(10-28-2018, 01:41 PM)Juniper Wrote: Of course, they'd have to catch this guy first to start that business.




 I didn't know this was a video until I hit reply to see what the heck you were talking about Laughing
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#22
(10-28-2018, 01:59 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(10-28-2018, 01:41 PM)Juniper Wrote: Of course, they'd have to catch this guy first to start that business.




 I didn't know this was a video until I hit reply to see what the heck you were talking about Laughing

Sorry.
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#23
(10-27-2018, 07:49 PM)Valuesize Wrote:
(10-27-2018, 07:21 PM)Juniper Wrote:
(10-27-2018, 06:26 PM)Valuesize Wrote:
(10-26-2018, 10:42 PM)Valuesize Wrote: This might help. 

https://www.circa.com/story/2018/10/26/n...-jaywalker

This one is better. ADULTS ONLY!

http://mailtribune.com/news/crime-courts...e-shooting

Anyone notice what was going on in the last minute in this video?

http://mailtribune.com/news/crime-courts...e-shooting
Well, what was it that was significant to you? I did feel that the Sheriff did not seem to want the conversation he was having with the cop to be recorded. At least, that is how it seems to me.

Yes and he switched it off. They are there for a reason, not to be turned off. Looks bad.
Is that actually a fact? That they can never turn off their mike? Like when they have something personal to say. I wondered if the one guy was talking about calling his wife or something
Reply
#24
(10-28-2018, 01:47 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(10-27-2018, 04:50 PM)Juniper Wrote:
(10-27-2018, 04:33 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(10-27-2018, 03:57 PM)Juniper Wrote:
(10-27-2018, 02:32 PM)tvguy Wrote:   if you don't comply you are as good as dead


Wow really?? That's your take? . The person did not simply not comply. He ran, he punched the cop in the face. He acted like someone guilty of something.

That cop was doing what cops are supposed to do. NORMAL people don't flip a cop off and take off after breaking a traffic law when they are simply asked a question.
So the cop followed up. That's his job.

The shooting was a horrible mistake but the victim himself put things in motion that eventfully caused the mistake.

Actually, it is my take. If you don't comply with  law enforcement they are ON.  Just ON.  They will fight you to the end.  Literally. Now, you are taking it further and seem to be implying that I'm saying they are unjustified. I did not say that. I did not say anything close to it being unjustified or that other cases are unjustified, but my eyes and ears tell me that whenever I see any kind of video or recording of a law enforcement take down.. Noncompliance is the beginning of the end.

What happens AFTER the first noncompliance is irrelevant in my mind.  It will end in an arrest at best, someone dead at worst.

I'm just making observations, not judgment. I have no real opinion in this particular case.  But, you seem to think I do because I didn't just come to the law enforcement defense.

No it has nothing to do with you not coming to the law enforcement's defense it has everything to do with what you said and what I quoted if you say if you don't comply you're as good as dead how can that not be indicating something unjustifiable by the cop LOL

Well, I never gave any opinion as to the law enforcement in this case being right, wrong, unjustified or not. It's just a fact. If you don't comply with Law Enforcement, they will assume there is a reason for the non compliance and act accordingly and in the tapes and videos that the public gets to see, it always seems to spiral from there. You said he "acted guilty".  I assume that's what the cops think when this happens.I never said it was or wasn't anything. Just a fact.
Like I said before. My comment was based on what you said that I quoted.
  if you don't comply you are as good as dead

That's simply not true and seems extremely opinionated.

That's pretty rich coming from someone who may be the most opinionated poster on the forum.  And I stand by it what I say; if you don't comply to a direct command to stop, it is not going to go well. And if you keep not complying, you may not live to tell about it. I'm not giving my opinion about that, just observing a fact.
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#25
One thing I don't understand....The cop said that Graves stepped in the street (62) against a red light and that he actually had to brake. Which is the entire reason the cop wanted to talk to him
Why is that not shown on the dash cam?

I'm not sure but I thought I actually saw that on a video before.
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#26
(10-28-2018, 02:05 PM)tvguy Wrote: One thing I don't understand....The cop said that Graves stepped in the street (62) against a red light and that he actually had to brake. Which is the entire reason the cop wanted to talk to him
Why is that not shown on the dash cam?

I'm not sure but I thought I actually saw that on a video before.

I think I saw that on a video on FB, although honestly I didn't know what it was....I didn't know it was walking against a red light, but he was walking in front of traffic, in front of the police car and it started from that point and moved right along into the restaurant.
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#27
(10-28-2018, 02:04 PM)Juniper Wrote:
(10-28-2018, 01:47 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(10-27-2018, 04:50 PM)Juniper Wrote:
(10-27-2018, 04:33 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(10-27-2018, 03:57 PM)Juniper Wrote: Actually, it is my take. If you don't comply with  law enforcement they are ON.  Just ON.  They will fight you to the end.  Literally. Now, you are taking it further and seem to be implying that I'm saying they are unjustified. I did not say that. I did not say anything close to it being unjustified or that other cases are unjustified, but my eyes and ears tell me that whenever I see any kind of video or recording of a law enforcement take down.. Noncompliance is the beginning of the end.

What happens AFTER the first noncompliance is irrelevant in my mind.  It will end in an arrest at best, someone dead at worst.

I'm just making observations, not judgment. I have no real opinion in this particular case.  But, you seem to think I do because I didn't just come to the law enforcement defense.

No it has nothing to do with you not coming to the law enforcement's defense it has everything to do with what you said and what I quoted if you say if you don't comply you're as good as dead how can that not be indicating something unjustifiable by the cop LOL

Well, I never gave any opinion as to the law enforcement in this case being right, wrong, unjustified or not. It's just a fact. If you don't comply with Law Enforcement, they will assume there is a reason for the non compliance and act accordingly and in the tapes and videos that the public gets to see, it always seems to spiral from there. You said he "acted guilty".  I assume that's what the cops think when this happens.I never said it was or wasn't anything. Just a fact.
Like I said before. My comment was based on what you said that I quoted.
  if you don't comply you are as good as dead

That's simply not true and seems extremely opinionated.
That's pretty rich coming from someone who may be the most opinionated poster on the forum.  And I stand by it what I say; if you don't comply to a direct command to stop, it is not going to go well. And if you keep not complying, you may not live to tell about it. I'm not giving my opinion about that, just observing a fact.
 
Yes I am opinionated. What that have to do with what you said? Sheesh All I'm trying to do is explain what it was you said that seemed to me be way over the top and completely wrong. A total exaggeration.


THIS makes sense, I agree with it........  if you don't comply to a direct command to stop, it is not going to go well. And if you keep not complying, you may not live to tell about it

THIS is a totally different comment and is in no way a fact......if you don't comply you are as good as dead


If you don't comply with a cop 99.999 percent of the time you are going to be put on the ground and handcuffed. Or shot with a taser.
Very rarely is anyone be killed for simply not complying.
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#28
(10-28-2018, 02:15 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(10-28-2018, 02:04 PM)Juniper Wrote:
(10-28-2018, 01:47 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(10-27-2018, 04:50 PM)Juniper Wrote:
(10-27-2018, 04:33 PM)tvguy Wrote: No it has nothing to do with you not coming to the law enforcement's defense it has everything to do with what you said and what I quoted if you say if you don't comply you're as good as dead how can that not be indicating something unjustifiable by the cop LOL

Well, I never gave any opinion as to the law enforcement in this case being right, wrong, unjustified or not. It's just a fact. If you don't comply with Law Enforcement, they will assume there is a reason for the non compliance and act accordingly and in the tapes and videos that the public gets to see, it always seems to spiral from there. You said he "acted guilty".  I assume that's what the cops think when this happens.I never said it was or wasn't anything. Just a fact.
Like I said before. My comment was based on what you said that I quoted.
  if you don't comply you are as good as dead

That's simply not true and seems extremely opinionated.
That's pretty rich coming from someone who may be the most opinionated poster on the forum.  And I stand by it what I say; if you don't comply to a direct command to stop, it is not going to go well. And if you keep not complying, you may not live to tell about it. I'm not giving my opinion about that, just observing a fact.
 
Yes I am opinionated. What that have to do with what you said? Sheesh All I'm trying to do is explain what it was you said that seemed to me be way over the top and completely wrong. A total exaggeration.


THIS makes sense, I agree with it........  if you don't comply to a direct command to stop, it is not going to go well. And if you keep not complying, you may not live to tell about it

THIS is a totally different comment and is in no way a fact......if you don't comply you are as good as dead


If you don't comply with a cop 99.999 percent of the time you are going to be put on the ground and handcuffed. Or shot with a taser.
Very rarely is anyone be killed for simply not complying.

Meh. I don't agree. I think what I said the first time is fairly accurate.  "You're as good as dead" is not the same as "You will die."  Not in my book anyway.
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#29
(10-28-2018, 02:31 PM)Juniper Wrote:
(10-28-2018, 02:15 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(10-28-2018, 02:04 PM)Juniper Wrote:
(10-28-2018, 01:47 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(10-27-2018, 04:50 PM)Juniper Wrote: Well, I never gave any opinion as to the law enforcement in this case being right, wrong, unjustified or not. It's just a fact. If you don't comply with Law Enforcement, they will assume there is a reason for the non compliance and act accordingly and in the tapes and videos that the public gets to see, it always seems to spiral from there. You said he "acted guilty".  I assume that's what the cops think when this happens.I never said it was or wasn't anything. Just a fact.
Like I said before. My comment was based on what you said that I quoted.
  if you don't comply you are as good as dead

That's simply not true and seems extremely opinionated.
That's pretty rich coming from someone who may be the most opinionated poster on the forum.  And I stand by it what I say; if you don't comply to a direct command to stop, it is not going to go well. And if you keep not complying, you may not live to tell about it. I'm not giving my opinion about that, just observing a fact.
 
Yes I am opinionated. What that have to do with what you said? Sheesh All I'm trying to do is explain what it was you said that seemed to me be way over the top and completely wrong. A total exaggeration.


THIS makes sense, I agree with it........  if you don't comply to a direct command to stop, it is not going to go well. And if you keep not complying, you may not live to tell about it

THIS is a totally different comment and is in no way a fact......if you don't comply you are as good as dead


If you don't comply with a cop 99.999 percent of the time you are going to be put on the ground and handcuffed. Or shot with a taser.
Very rarely is anyone be killed for simply not complying.

Meh. I don't agree. I think what I said the first time is fairly accurate.  "You're as good as dead" is not the same as "You will die."  Not in my book anyway.
 "You're as good as dead" is not the same as "You will die."

Then we don't disagree Big Grin
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#30
(10-28-2018, 02:02 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(10-27-2018, 07:49 PM)Valuesize Wrote:
(10-27-2018, 07:21 PM)Juniper Wrote:
(10-27-2018, 06:26 PM)Valuesize Wrote:
(10-26-2018, 10:42 PM)Valuesize Wrote: This might help. 

https://www.circa.com/story/2018/10/26/n...-jaywalker

This one is better. ADULTS ONLY!

http://mailtribune.com/news/crime-courts...e-shooting

Anyone notice what was going on in the last minute in this video?

http://mailtribune.com/news/crime-courts...e-shooting
Well, what was it that was significant to you? I did feel that the Sheriff did not seem to want the conversation he was having with the cop to be recorded. At least, that is how it seems to me.

Yes and he switched it off. They are there for a reason, not to be turned off. Looks bad.
Is that actually a fact? That they can never turn off their mike? Like when they have something personal to say. I wondered if the one guy was talking about calling his wife or something

It's an opinion generally speaking. I could be wrong, but I don't think there are any state or federal laws established at this time. Those departments that choose and/or can afford them set their own guidelines/policies.
Reply
#31
And now for the $64,000 question. In TODAY'S POLITCAL CLIMATE, if the victim had been African American... would this story have made national headlines? I say it would have. I also think that the cops' story, (rightly or wrongly), would have been subject to higher scrutiny.
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#32
(10-28-2018, 06:12 PM)GCG Wrote: And now for the $64,000 question. In TODAY'S POLITCAL CLIMATE, if the victim had been African American... would this story have made national headlines? I say it would have. I also think that the cops' story, (rightly or wrongly), would have been subject to higher scrutiny.

You know damn well it would go viral if the guy was black. It's too bad that's the case because the media has made many people believe that our police commonly shoot black people for no reason.
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#33
(10-28-2018, 05:20 PM)Valuesize Wrote:
(10-28-2018, 02:02 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(10-27-2018, 07:49 PM)Valuesize Wrote:
(10-27-2018, 07:21 PM)Juniper Wrote:
(10-27-2018, 06:26 PM)Valuesize Wrote: Anyone notice what was going on in the last minute in this video?

http://mailtribune.com/news/crime-courts...e-shooting
Well, what was it that was significant to you? I did feel that the Sheriff did not seem to want the conversation he was having with the cop to be recorded. At least, that is how it seems to me.

Yes and he switched it off. They are there for a reason, not to be turned off. Looks bad.
Is that actually a fact? That they can never turn off their mike? Like when they have something personal to say. I wondered if the one guy was talking about calling his wife or something

It's an opinion generally speaking. I could be wrong, but I don't think there are any state or federal laws established at this time. Those departments that choose and/or can afford them set their own guidelines/policies.

My guess is that this ^ is probably the case.
Reply
#34
So now. Of course the family is suing.

I still say the victim set in motion what happened. That police HAVE to be VERY careful when someone refuses to show they are not hiding a weapon. 
Their lives are in danger. They don't get paid to take stupid unnecessary chances with anyone. Jerks criminals and yes people with a mental illness too. They can ALL kill you.

I've been interested in criminology and forensics for decades. I think I probably have witnessed incidents like this on video more than most. I think I understand police protocol , SOP, standard operating procedures more than most.

Quite possibly one needs a military background to under stand some of it. So many complain of the cops being militarized police. Well no shit. A great many are veterans. They wear uniforms, They each have a rank. There is a chain of command.


It seems funny to me that this day and age when cops are definitely better trained. Have better equipment... body cams, less than lethal weapons etc
These kind of things happen far less, yet the way people act you would think it was far more. Our police will NEVER be perfect.
And when someone like Graves comes along who regardless of whether it's his fault or not. He was being a complete asshole and refusing to obey commands.

I have seen police being shot in situations similar to this. Often they are shot many times, Some live through it with issues the rest of their lives. May others don't live.

In a nut shell almost all of the "bad shootings" I see were precipitated by suspects acting like an idiot just like this guy.
Like I said before IMO he could have been shot justifiably before the taser ever came in to play because he refuses to show his hands and actually put one hand behind his back.
Cops have to have the right to protect themselves.
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