PG&E and the camp fire
#1
I guess I'm biased but I'm unwilling to find PG&E totally responsible for the deadliest fire in California's history.

What about mismanaged forests? Fires are and always have been a natural occurrence. When we don't allow them to burn naturally like we always have we completely changed the structure of our forests.
This is not just my opinion it's a matter of fact. It's our fault the forests are thick with small trees and dead wood that has built up over time.
It's also not PG&E's fault that a whole city was literally built in the line of fire. Or that rare extremely high winds would make a fire move at an acre a second and create hurricane force winds.
There are are those who cry foul that PG&E is filing bankruptcy as if that's just a trick to not pay. I always thought whether a bankruptcy was allowed or not was decided by a judge base on whether or not the business is actually able to pay what they owe.
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#2
(05-15-2019, 04:31 PM)tvguy Wrote: I guess I'm biased but I'm unwilling to find PG&E totally responsible for the deadliest fire in California's history.

What about mismanaged forests? Fires are and always have been a natural occurrence. When we don't allow them to burn naturally like we always have we completely changed the structure of our forests.
This is not just my opinion it's a matter of fact. It's our fault the forests are thick with small trees and dead wood that has built up over time.
It's also not PG&E's fault that a whole city was literally built in the line of fire. Or that rare extremely high winds would make a fire move at an acre a second and create hurricane force winds.
There are are those who cry foul that PG&E is filing bankruptcy as if that's just a trick to not pay. I always thought whether a bankruptcy was allowed or not was decided by a judge base on whether or not the business is actually able to pay what they owe.

There is some question as to PG&E effort to keep the lines clear. If they fail to clear trees and branches, that may fall and short out the lines, then they set up a dangerous condition.
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#3
(05-15-2019, 04:31 PM)tvguy Wrote: I guess I'm biased but I'm unwilling to find PG&E totally responsible for the deadliest fire in California's history.

What about mismanaged forests? Fires are and always have been a natural occurrence. When we don't allow them to burn naturally like we always have we completely changed the structure of our forests.
This is not just my opinion it's a matter of fact. It's our fault the forests are thick with small trees and dead wood that has built up over time.
It's also not PG&E's fault that a whole city was literally built in the line of fire. Or that rare extremely high winds would make a fire move at an acre a second and create hurricane force winds.
There are are those who cry foul that PG&E is filing bankruptcy as if that's just a trick to not pay. I always thought whether a bankruptcy was allowed or not was decided by a judge base on whether or not the business is actually able to pay what they owe.

Yes, you are.
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#4
(05-15-2019, 05:04 PM)chuck white Wrote:
(05-15-2019, 04:31 PM)tvguy Wrote: I guess I'm biased but I'm unwilling to find PG&E totally responsible for the deadliest fire in California's history.

What about mismanaged forests? Fires are and always have been a natural occurrence. When we don't allow them to burn naturally like we always have we completely changed the structure of our forests.
This is not just my opinion it's a matter of fact. It's our fault the forests are thick with small trees and dead wood that has built up over time.
It's also not PG&E's fault that a whole city was literally built in the line of fire. Or that rare extremely high winds would make a fire move at an acre a second and create hurricane force winds.
There are are those who cry foul that PG&E is filing bankruptcy as if that's just a trick to not pay. I always thought whether a bankruptcy was allowed or not was decided by a judge base on whether or not the business is actually able to pay what they owe.

There is some question as to PG&E effort to keep the lines clear. If they fail to clear trees and branches, that may fall and short out the lines, then they set up a dangerous condition.
Reply
#5
(05-15-2019, 06:58 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(05-15-2019, 05:04 PM)chuck white Wrote:
(05-15-2019, 04:31 PM)tvguy Wrote: I guess I'm biased but I'm unwilling to find PG&E totally responsible for the deadliest fire in California's history.

What about mismanaged forests? Fires are and always have been a natural occurrence. When we don't allow them to burn naturally like we always have we completely changed the structure of our forests.
This is not just my opinion it's a matter of fact. It's our fault the forests are thick with small trees and dead wood that has built up over time.
It's also not PG&E's fault that a whole city was literally built in the line of fire. Or that rare extremely high winds would make a fire move at an acre a second and create hurricane force winds.
There are are those who cry foul that PG&E is filing bankruptcy as if that's just a trick to not pay. I always thought whether a bankruptcy was allowed or not was decided by a judge base on whether or not the business is actually able to pay what they owe.

There is some question as to PG&E effort to keep the lines clear. If they fail to clear trees and branches, that may fall and short out the lines, then they set up a dangerous condition.

Yes I totally agree they should be held accountable for being negligent
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#6
(05-15-2019, 06:55 PM)Someones Dad Wrote:
(05-15-2019, 04:31 PM)tvguy Wrote: I guess I'm biased but I'm unwilling to find PG&E totally responsible for the deadliest fire in California's history.

What about mismanaged forests? Fires are and always have been a natural occurrence. When we don't allow them to burn naturally like we always have we completely changed the structure of our forests.
This is not just my opinion it's a matter of fact. It's our fault the forests are thick with small trees and dead wood that has built up over time.
It's also not PG&E's fault that a whole city was literally built in the line of fire. Or that rare extremely high winds would make a fire move at an acre a second and create hurricane force winds.
There are are those who cry foul that PG&E is filing bankruptcy as if that's just a trick to not pay. I always thought whether a bankruptcy was allowed or not was decided by a judge base on whether or not the business is actually able to pay what they owe.

Yes, you are.
Reply
#7
(05-15-2019, 06:55 PM)Someones Dad Wrote:
(05-15-2019, 04:31 PM)tvguy Wrote: I guess I'm biased but I'm unwilling to find PG&E totally responsible for the deadliest fire in California's history.

What about mismanaged forests? Fires are and always have been a natural occurrence. When we don't allow them to burn naturally like we always have we completely changed the structure of our forests.
This is not just my opinion it's a matter of fact. It's our fault the forests are thick with small trees and dead wood that has built up over time.
It's also not PG&E's fault that a whole city was literally built in the line of fire. Or that rare extremely high winds would make a fire move at an acre a second and create hurricane force winds.
There are are those who cry foul that PG&E is filing bankruptcy as if that's just a trick to not pay. I always thought whether a bankruptcy was allowed or not was decided by a judge base on whether or not the business is actually able to pay what they owe.

Yes, you are.

Wow that's all you have? I guess intelligently refuting any of my points would be too hard for you?
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#8
(05-15-2019, 07:05 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(05-15-2019, 06:55 PM)Someones Dad Wrote:
(05-15-2019, 04:31 PM)tvguy Wrote: I guess I'm biased but I'm unwilling to find PG&E totally responsible for the deadliest fire in California's history.

What about mismanaged forests? Fires are and always have been a natural occurrence. When we don't allow them to burn naturally like we always have we completely changed the structure of our forests.
This is not just my opinion it's a matter of fact. It's our fault the forests are thick with small trees and dead wood that has built up over time.
It's also not PG&E's fault that a whole city was literally built in the line of fire. Or that rare extremely high winds would make a fire move at an acre a second and create hurricane force winds.
There are are those who cry foul that PG&E is filing bankruptcy as if that's just a trick to not pay. I always thought whether a bankruptcy was allowed or not was decided by a judge base on whether or not the business is actually able to pay what they owe.

Yes, you are.

Wow that's all you have? I guess intelligently refuting any of my points would be too hard for you?


He obviously has nothing intelligent to add. He appears to enjoy following your posts and making snide remarks. Which says a lot about him.  Rolling Eyes
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#9
I remember back in the 70's, someone telling me how solid PG&E stock was. I guess the stock would be worthless, if they file.
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#10
(05-15-2019, 04:31 PM)tvguy Wrote: I guess I'm biased but I'm unwilling to find PG&E totally responsible for the deadliest fire in California's history.

What about mismanaged forests? Fires are and always have been a natural occurrence. When we don't allow them to burn naturally like we always have we completely changed the structure of our forests.
This is not just my opinion it's a matter of fact. It's our fault the forests are thick with small trees and dead wood that has built up over time.
It's also not PG&E's fault that a whole city was literally built in the line of fire. Or that rare extremely high winds would make a fire move at an acre a second and create hurricane force winds.
There are are those who cry foul that PG&E is filing bankruptcy as if that's just a trick to not pay. I always thought whether a bankruptcy was allowed or not was decided by a judge base on whether or not the business is actually able to pay what they owe.

Someone's always got to take the blame in my experience. And it's like hyenas to the kill even if it's not all one source of fault.  On the same note as natural environmental processes, however, and I know it's a shift from your OP, but what about wolves? Wolves do a lot to balance the natural ecosphere in wilderness areas, by shifting the environment back to it's (more) original state. Sorry.  Don't want to start a shitstorm, but it's kind of in the same sphere.
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#11
(05-15-2019, 09:27 PM)Juniper Wrote:
(05-15-2019, 04:31 PM)tvguy Wrote: I guess I'm biased but I'm unwilling to find PG&E totally responsible for the deadliest fire in California's history.

What about mismanaged forests? Fires are and always have been a natural occurrence. When we don't allow them to burn naturally like we always have we completely changed the structure of our forests.
This is not just my opinion it's a matter of fact. It's our fault the forests are thick with small trees and dead wood that has built up over time.
It's also not PG&E's fault that a whole city was literally built in the line of fire. Or that rare extremely high winds would make a fire move at an acre a second and create hurricane force winds.
There are are those who cry foul that PG&E is filing bankruptcy as if that's just a trick to not pay. I always thought whether a bankruptcy was allowed or not was decided by a judge base on whether or not the business is actually able to pay what they owe.

Someone's always got to take the blame in my experience. And it's like hyenas to the kill even if it's not all one source of fault.  On the same note as natural environmental processes, however, and I know it's a shift from your OP, but what about wolves? Wolves do a lot to balance the natural ecosphere in wilderness areas, by shifting the environment back to it's (more) original state. Sorry.  Don't want to start a shitstorm, but it's kind of in the same sphere.

Wasn't it Federal forest that burned up? The Feds share some blame in this. Trump cut the budget and they didn't have funds to sweep the floor of the forest.
Rolling Eyes
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#12
(05-16-2019, 12:21 AM)chuck white Wrote:
(05-15-2019, 09:27 PM)Juniper Wrote:
(05-15-2019, 04:31 PM)tvguy Wrote: I guess I'm biased but I'm unwilling to find PG&E totally responsible for the deadliest fire in California's history.

What about mismanaged forests? Fires are and always have been a natural occurrence. When we don't allow them to burn naturally like we always have we completely changed the structure of our forests.
This is not just my opinion it's a matter of fact. It's our fault the forests are thick with small trees and dead wood that has built up over time.
It's also not PG&E's fault that a whole city was literally built in the line of fire. Or that rare extremely high winds would make a fire move at an acre a second and create hurricane force winds.
There are are those who cry foul that PG&E is filing bankruptcy as if that's just a trick to not pay. I always thought whether a bankruptcy was allowed or not was decided by a judge base on whether or not the business is actually able to pay what they owe.

Someone's always got to take the blame in my experience. And it's like hyenas to the kill even if it's not all one source of fault.  On the same note as natural environmental processes, however, and I know it's a shift from your OP, but what about wolves? Wolves do a lot to balance the natural ecosphere in wilderness areas, by shifting the environment back to it's (more) original state. Sorry.  Don't want to start a shitstorm, but it's kind of in the same sphere.

Wasn't it Federal forest that burned up? The Feds share some blame in this. Trump cut the budget and they didn't have funds to sweep the floor of the forest.
Rolling Eyes

I'm sure they can afford a few Roombas.
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#13
(05-15-2019, 09:27 PM)Juniper Wrote:
(05-15-2019, 04:31 PM)tvguy Wrote: I guess I'm biased but I'm unwilling to find PG&E totally responsible for the deadliest fire in California's history.

What about mismanaged forests? Fires are and always have been a natural occurrence. When we don't allow them to burn naturally like we always have we completely changed the structure of our forests.
This is not just my opinion it's a matter of fact. It's our fault the forests are thick with small trees and dead wood that has built up over time.
It's also not PG&E's fault that a whole city was literally built in the line of fire. Or that rare extremely high winds would make a fire move at an acre a second and create hurricane force winds.
There are are those who cry foul that PG&E is filing bankruptcy as if that's just a trick to not pay. I always thought whether a bankruptcy was allowed or not was decided by a judge base on whether or not the business is actually able to pay what they owe.

Someone's always got to take the blame in my experience. And it's like hyenas to the kill even if it's not all one source of fault.  On the same note as natural environmental processes, however, and I know it's a shift from your OP, but what about wolves? Wolves do a lot to balance the natural ecosphere in wilderness areas, by shifting the environment back to it's (more) original state. Sorry.  Don't want to start a shitstorm, but it's kind of in the same sphere.
 
 OK but I didn't say no one gets blamed. I'm saying that the forests were mismanaged which is why the fire burned like fires no one has ever seen before.
That's not PG&E's fault. I'm saying if people want to build their homes right next to and literally right in the line of a forest fire  That's not PG&E's fault either.
The weather with drought conditions and extremely rare and high wind was not PG&E's fault.

It's also not PG&E's fault that they can't possibly pay for all the damage or lives lost due to the fire. The only way people will recoup losses from PG&E's is if PG&E's  raises their rates. That way everyone pays a little just exactly the way insurance works.
And BTW the gov of California just signed a bill allowing this to happen.


I'm not sure I get the wolf analogy. Yes they are a big part of a natural balances ecosystem in the wilderness. But in Oregon we don't have a wilderness OR a natural balances ecosystem. ODFW now does the balancing.
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#14
(05-16-2019, 12:21 AM)chuck white Wrote:
(05-15-2019, 09:27 PM)Juniper Wrote:
(05-15-2019, 04:31 PM)tvguy Wrote: I guess I'm biased but I'm unwilling to find PG&E totally responsible for the deadliest fire in California's history.

What about mismanaged forests? Fires are and always have been a natural occurrence. When we don't allow them to burn naturally like we always have we completely changed the structure of our forests.
This is not just my opinion it's a matter of fact. It's our fault the forests are thick with small trees and dead wood that has built up over time.
It's also not PG&E's fault that a whole city was literally built in the line of fire. Or that rare extremely high winds would make a fire move at an acre a second and create hurricane force winds.
There are are those who cry foul that PG&E is filing bankruptcy as if that's just a trick to not pay. I always thought whether a bankruptcy was allowed or not was decided by a judge base on whether or not the business is actually able to pay what they owe.

Someone's always got to take the blame in my experience. And it's like hyenas to the kill even if it's not all one source of fault.  On the same note as natural environmental processes, however, and I know it's a shift from your OP, but what about wolves? Wolves do a lot to balance the natural ecosphere in wilderness areas, by shifting the environment back to it's (more) original state. Sorry.  Don't want to start a shitstorm, but it's kind of in the same sphere.

Wasn't it Federal forest that burned up? The Feds share some blame in this. Trump cut the budget and they didn't have funds to sweep the floor of the forest.
Rolling Eyes

Bwa haha
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#15
(05-16-2019, 12:21 AM).chuck white Wrote:
(05-15-2019, 09:27 PM)Juniper Wrote:
(05-15-2019, 04:31 PM)tvguy Wrote: I guess I'm biased but I'm unwilling to find PG&E totally responsible for the deadliest fire in California's history.

What about mismanaged forests? Fires are and always have been a natural occurrence. When we don't allow them to burn naturally like we always have we completely changed the structure of our forests.
This is not just my opinion it's a matter of fact. It's our fault the forests are thick with small trees and dead wood that has built up over time.
It's also not PG&E's fault that a whole city was literally built in the line of fire. Or that rare extremely high winds would make a fire move at an acre a second and create hurricane force winds.
There are are those who cry foul that PG&E is filing bankruptcy as if that's just a trick to not pay. I always thought whether a bankruptcy was allowed or not was decided by a judge base on whether or not the business is actually able to pay what they owe.

Someone's always got to take the blame in my experience. And it's like hyenas to the kill even if it's not all one source of fault.  On the same note as natural environmental processes, however, and I know it's a shift from your OP, but what about wolves? Wolves do a lot to balance the natural ecosphere in wilderness areas, by shifting the environment back to it's (more) original state. Sorry.  Don't want to start a shitstorm, but it's kind of in the same sphere.

Wasn't it Federal forest that burned up? The Feds share some blame in this. Trump cut the budget and they didn't have funds to sweep the floor of the forest.
Rolling Eyes

Sorry, we can no longer afford brooms, what with the high tariffs and all. Betsy DeVos's student loan brokers need that money now.
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