Is this a record?
#21
(07-26-2019, 02:07 PM)GPnative Wrote:
(07-26-2019, 02:00 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(07-26-2019, 07:15 AM)GPnative Wrote: It is a sad state of affairs when a roadside fire cannot be extinguished in a quick/efficient manner. It's already lined on one side FFS. Every time I hear this "steep/rugged terrain" excuse nonsense it makes my blood boil, it's Oregon, what isn't steep and rugged?! Are they only trained to fight fires on Nebraska flat land?! Fighting fires from behind a desk is the new modus operandi to the detriment of the public health. If Kate Brown's house was located in the active fire zone, how fast do you think that sunuvabitch would of been extinguished?

I read they believe it may have started from an illegal debris burn, so to the dickhead that started it, I hope you get hit by a bus.

Wow you are one of those eh? I couldn't believe how many had that same opinion on FB. All the people who don't have a clue blaming USFS and or Kate brown.
Some claiming the fire fighters themselves were lazy..
Is it REALLY that hard to conceive of the possibility that everyone involved did the best they could do?  Especially when you have zero evidence to start the blame game?

Nope, I have evidence, every news outlet had someone on scene, footage of fire burning on the hillside next to the road, not a firefighter to be seen, why, because they were either busy digging a line and back burning from 5 miles away or awaiting orders from the safety sally desk crews. Engaging with hoses attached to tenders on the roadside before it blew up to the shit show we have now would of made short work of it. The current lack of ability and desire from "leadership" to fight fires is disgusting.

There's no money to be made in putting the fires out too quickly.
Reply
#22
(07-26-2019, 02:12 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(07-26-2019, 02:07 PM)GPnative Wrote:
(07-26-2019, 02:00 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(07-26-2019, 07:15 AM)GPnative Wrote: It is a sad state of affairs when a roadside fire cannot be extinguished in a quick/efficient manner. It's already lined on one side FFS. Every time I hear this "steep/rugged terrain" excuse nonsense it makes my blood boil, it's Oregon, what isn't steep and rugged?! Are they only trained to fight fires on Nebraska flat land?! Fighting fires from behind a desk is the new modus operandi to the detriment of the public health. If Kate Brown's house was located in the active fire zone, how fast do you think that sunuvabitch would of been extinguished?

I read they believe it may have started from an illegal debris burn, so to the dickhead that started it, I hope you get hit by a bus.

Wow you are one of those eh? I couldn't believe how many had that same opinion on FB. All the people who don't have a clue blaming USFS and or Kate brown.
Some claiming the fire fighters themselves were lazy..
Is it REALLY that hard to conceive of the possibility that everyone involved did the best they could do?  Especially when you have zero evidence to start the blame game?

Nope, I have evidence, every news outlet had someone on scene, footage of fire burning on the hillside next to the road, not a firefighter to be seen, why, because they were either busy digging a line and back burning from 5 miles away or awaiting orders from the safety sally desk crews. Engaging with hoses attached to tenders on the roadside before it blew up to the shit show we have now would of made short work of it. The current lack of ability and desire from "leadership" to fight fires is disgusting.
How far would they have had to drag the hoses from the tenders on the road?

The early footage I saw, not far, The fire didn't start far from the roadway, transients don't climb.

I'm sure during that critical time they were too busy trying to decide who was in charge, who had jurisdiction, what was the fire name going to be, who was going to be the PR person for the news, you know, important stuff like that.
Reply
#23
(07-26-2019, 02:14 PM)GCG Wrote:
(07-26-2019, 02:07 PM)GPnative Wrote:
(07-26-2019, 02:00 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(07-26-2019, 07:15 AM)GPnative Wrote: It is a sad state of affairs when a roadside fire cannot be extinguished in a quick/efficient manner. It's already lined on one side FFS. Every time I hear this "steep/rugged terrain" excuse nonsense it makes my blood boil, it's Oregon, what isn't steep and rugged?! Are they only trained to fight fires on Nebraska flat land?! Fighting fires from behind a desk is the new modus operandi to the detriment of the public health. If Kate Brown's house was located in the active fire zone, how fast do you think that sunuvabitch would of been extinguished?

I read they believe it may have started from an illegal debris burn, so to the dickhead that started it, I hope you get hit by a bus.

Wow you are one of those eh? I couldn't believe how many had that same opinion on FB. All the people who don't have a clue blaming USFS and or Kate brown.
Some claiming the fire fighters themselves were lazy..
Is it REALLY that hard to conceive of the possibility that everyone involved did the best they could do?  Especially when you have zero evidence to start the blame game?

Nope, I have evidence, every news outlet had someone on scene, footage of fire burning on the hillside next to the road, not a firefighter to be seen, why, because they were either busy digging a line and back burning from 5 miles away or awaiting orders from the safety sally desk crews. Engaging with hoses attached to tenders on the roadside before it blew up to the shit show we have now would of made short work of it. The current lack of ability and desire from "leadership" to fight fires is disgusting.

There's no money to be made in putting the fires out too quickly.
 What you are implying is absurd as far as this fire and I don't believe it for one second.
Reply
#24
(07-26-2019, 02:14 PM)GPnative Wrote:
(07-26-2019, 02:12 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(07-26-2019, 02:07 PM)GPnative Wrote:
(07-26-2019, 02:00 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(07-26-2019, 07:15 AM)GPnative Wrote: It is a sad state of affairs when a roadside fire cannot be extinguished in a quick/efficient manner. It's already lined on one side FFS. Every time I hear this "steep/rugged terrain" excuse nonsense it makes my blood boil, it's Oregon, what isn't steep and rugged?! Are they only trained to fight fires on Nebraska flat land?! Fighting fires from behind a desk is the new modus operandi to the detriment of the public health. If Kate Brown's house was located in the active fire zone, how fast do you think that sunuvabitch would of been extinguished?

I read they believe it may have started from an illegal debris burn, so to the dickhead that started it, I hope you get hit by a bus.

Wow you are one of those eh? I couldn't believe how many had that same opinion on FB. All the people who don't have a clue blaming USFS and or Kate brown.
Some claiming the fire fighters themselves were lazy..
Is it REALLY that hard to conceive of the possibility that everyone involved did the best they could do?  Especially when you have zero evidence to start the blame game?

Nope, I have evidence, every news outlet had someone on scene, footage of fire burning on the hillside next to the road, not a firefighter to be seen, why, because they were either busy digging a line and back burning from 5 miles away or awaiting orders from the safety sally desk crews. Engaging with hoses attached to tenders on the roadside before it blew up to the shit show we have now would of made short work of it. The current lack of ability and desire from "leadership" to fight fires is disgusting.
How far would they have had to drag the hoses from the tenders on the road?

The early footage I saw, not far, The fire didn't start far from the roadway, transients don't climb.

I'm sure during that critical time they were too busy trying to decide who was in charge, who had jurisdiction, what was the fire name going to be, who was going to be the PR person for the news, you know, important stuff like that.
OK so maybe the fire stared near a road that doesn't prove it could have been put out quicker. You don't know how far it spread uphill before anyone arrived.
Also fires travel a LOT faster up hill and fire fighter would have to go uphill to get in front of it.
I sure as hell would hate to try that. That sounds extremely dangerous and would indeed require someone in charge to risk all those lives doing that IF it was even possible.
Reply
#25
(07-26-2019, 03:06 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(07-26-2019, 02:14 PM)GCG Wrote:
(07-26-2019, 02:07 PM)GPnative Wrote:
(07-26-2019, 02:00 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(07-26-2019, 07:15 AM)GPnative Wrote: It is a sad state of affairs when a roadside fire cannot be extinguished in a quick/efficient manner. It's already lined on one side FFS. Every time I hear this "steep/rugged terrain" excuse nonsense it makes my blood boil, it's Oregon, what isn't steep and rugged?! Are they only trained to fight fires on Nebraska flat land?! Fighting fires from behind a desk is the new modus operandi to the detriment of the public health. If Kate Brown's house was located in the active fire zone, how fast do you think that sunuvabitch would of been extinguished?

I read they believe it may have started from an illegal debris burn, so to the dickhead that started it, I hope you get hit by a bus.

Wow you are one of those eh? I couldn't believe how many had that same opinion on FB. All the people who don't have a clue blaming USFS and or Kate brown.
Some claiming the fire fighters themselves were lazy..
Is it REALLY that hard to conceive of the possibility that everyone involved did the best they could do?  Especially when you have zero evidence to start the blame game?

Nope, I have evidence, every news outlet had someone on scene, footage of fire burning on the hillside next to the road, not a firefighter to be seen, why, because they were either busy digging a line and back burning from 5 miles away or awaiting orders from the safety sally desk crews. Engaging with hoses attached to tenders on the roadside before it blew up to the shit show we have now would of made short work of it. The current lack of ability and desire from "leadership" to fight fires is disgusting.

There's no money to be made in putting the fires out too quickly.
 What you are implying is absurd as far as this fire and I don't believe it for one second.
I have not been following this particular fire that closely but if you think for one second that there is no correlation between delays in forest fire fighting and the HUGE machine that gets put into motion when these fires get out of control... then you are not paying attention. And no... I'm not accusing the people that let the Paradise fire get out of control of murder for profit. That situation was unique.
Reply
#26
(07-26-2019, 05:46 PM)GCG Wrote:
(07-26-2019, 03:06 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(07-26-2019, 02:14 PM)GCG Wrote:
(07-26-2019, 02:07 PM)GPnative Wrote:
(07-26-2019, 02:00 PM)tvguy Wrote: Wow you are one of those eh? I couldn't believe how many had that same opinion on FB. All the people who don't have a clue blaming USFS and or Kate brown.
Some claiming the fire fighters themselves were lazy..
Is it REALLY that hard to conceive of the possibility that everyone involved did the best they could do?  Especially when you have zero evidence to start the blame game?

Nope, I have evidence, every news outlet had someone on scene, footage of fire burning on the hillside next to the road, not a firefighter to be seen, why, because they were either busy digging a line and back burning from 5 miles away or awaiting orders from the safety sally desk crews. Engaging with hoses attached to tenders on the roadside before it blew up to the shit show we have now would of made short work of it. The current lack of ability and desire from "leadership" to fight fires is disgusting.

There's no money to be made in putting the fires out too quickly.
 What you are implying is absurd as far as this fire and I don't believe it for one second.
I have not been following this particular fire that closely but if you think for one second that there is no correlation between delays in forest fire fighting and the HUGE machine that gets put into motion when these fires get out of control... then you are not paying attention. And no... I'm not accusing the people that let the Paradise fire get out of control of murder for profit. That situation was unique.

So, I'm seeing this kind of idea floated more and more...that fires are big business so they aren't in a hurry to put them out quickly?
Reply
#27
(07-26-2019, 06:40 PM)Juniper Wrote:
(07-26-2019, 05:46 PM)GCG Wrote:
(07-26-2019, 03:06 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(07-26-2019, 02:14 PM)GCG Wrote:
(07-26-2019, 02:07 PM)GPnative Wrote: Nope, I have evidence, every news outlet had someone on scene, footage of fire burning on the hillside next to the road, not a firefighter to be seen, why, because they were either busy digging a line and back burning from 5 miles away or awaiting orders from the safety sally desk crews. Engaging with hoses attached to tenders on the roadside before it blew up to the shit show we have now would of made short work of it. The current lack of ability and desire from "leadership" to fight fires is disgusting.

There's no money to be made in putting the fires out too quickly.
 What you are implying is absurd as far as this fire and I don't believe it for one second.
I have not been following this particular fire that closely but if you think for one second that there is no correlation between delays in forest fire fighting and the HUGE machine that gets put into motion when these fires get out of control... then you are not paying attention. And no... I'm not accusing the people that let the Paradise fire get out of control of murder for profit. That situation was unique.

So, I'm seeing this kind of idea floated more and more...that fires are big business so they aren't in a hurry to put them out quickly?

That's about as believable as the Chemtrails Theory so many people would have to be complicit in doing this that to me it makes the theory very unlikely
Reply
#28
(07-26-2019, 06:40 PM)Juniper Wrote:
(07-26-2019, 05:46 PM)GCG Wrote:
(07-26-2019, 03:06 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(07-26-2019, 02:14 PM)GCG Wrote:
(07-26-2019, 02:07 PM)GPnative Wrote: Nope, I have evidence, every news outlet had someone on scene, footage of fire burning on the hillside next to the road, not a firefighter to be seen, why, because they were either busy digging a line and back burning from 5 miles away or awaiting orders from the safety sally desk crews. Engaging with hoses attached to tenders on the roadside before it blew up to the shit show we have now would of made short work of it. The current lack of ability and desire from "leadership" to fight fires is disgusting.

There's no money to be made in putting the fires out too quickly.
 What you are implying is absurd as far as this fire and I don't believe it for one second.
I have not been following this particular fire that closely but if you think for one second that there is no correlation between delays in forest fire fighting and the HUGE machine that gets put into motion when these fires get out of control... then you are not paying attention. And no... I'm not accusing the people that let the Paradise fire get out of control of murder for profit. That situation was unique.

So, I'm seeing this kind of idea floated more and more...that fires are big business so they aren't in a hurry to put them out quickly?

Facts are facts, they ARE big business. We certainly have the technology, skill, and man power to be far more effective than we are at fighting wild fires. When a burn from the 80s is being blamed for lack of action on the fire line, you know we are in a new era of fighting (or lack thereof) wild fire.
Reply
#29
(07-26-2019, 06:53 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(07-26-2019, 06:40 PM)Juniper Wrote:
(07-26-2019, 05:46 PM)GCG Wrote:
(07-26-2019, 03:06 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(07-26-2019, 02:14 PM)GCG Wrote: There's no money to be made in putting the fires out too quickly.
 What you are implying is absurd as far as this fire and I don't believe it for one second.
I have not been following this particular fire that closely but if you think for one second that there is no correlation between delays in forest fire fighting and the HUGE machine that gets put into motion when these fires get out of control... then you are not paying attention. And no... I'm not accusing the people that let the Paradise fire get out of control of murder for profit. That situation was unique.

So, I'm seeing this kind of idea floated more and more...that fires are big business so they aren't in a hurry to put them out quickly?

That's about as believable as the Chemtrails Theory so many people would have to be complicit in doing this that to me it makes the theory very unlikely

Yeah, fire fighting is a big business and getting bigger. I don't believe at all that it means any agencies are dragging their feet to prolong fires for profit. There could be individuals who do that in whatever small way they can but there's always a few scumbags.

Anymore what would be the point? We have enough fires most of the year. There isn't any shortage of fires to fight.
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#30
OK, I was not here in '87. So there was a fire in this location then? Was the smoke in the valley like this then? Because these last couple of years seem worse than anything I remember.
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#31
(07-26-2019, 09:56 PM)Juniper Wrote: OK, I was not here in '87.  So there was a fire in this location then?  Was the smoke in the valley like this then? Because these last couple of years seem worse than anything I remember.
Yes that one caused me to evacuate our home on 200 acres out near Wilmer. I don't think Medford was smokey.
Reply
#32
So, continuing with the theme that fires are being allowed to burn in order to generate a high dollar business machine...could this fire have been put out or contained by just bringing out the supertanker as soon as it started? What is the protocol for using it?
Reply
#33
(07-27-2019, 01:23 PM)Juniper Wrote: So, continuing with the theme that fires are being allowed to burn in order to generate a high dollar business machine...could this fire have been put out or contained by just bringing out the supertanker as soon as it started?  What is the protocol for using it?

The fire started in the evening. They don't fly any tankers at night. As far as the crews trying to fight the fire. They said it was extremely dangerous because the fire was burning through an old timber area full of brush and dead snags that left from a fire back in the 1980's.
The fires was burning uphill .They said rocks and burning snags were falling and rolling downhill at them IN THE DARK.
This was all in today's MMT which you can access. Smiling
Reply
#34
(07-27-2019, 04:22 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(07-27-2019, 01:23 PM)Juniper Wrote: So, continuing with the theme that fires are being allowed to burn in order to generate a high dollar business machine...could this fire have been put out or contained by just bringing out the supertanker as soon as it started?  What is the protocol for using it?

The fire started in the evening. They don't fly any tankers at night. As far as the crews trying to fight the fire. They said it was extremely dangerous because the fire was burning through an old timber area full of brush and dead snags that left from a fire back in the 1980's.
The fires was burning uphill .They said rocks and burning snags were falling and rolling downhill at them IN THE DARK.
This was all in today's MMT which you can access. Smiling
Well, I didn't mean literally the minute it started you know.
Reply
#35
(07-27-2019, 04:31 PM)Juniper Wrote:
(07-27-2019, 04:22 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(07-27-2019, 01:23 PM)Juniper Wrote: So, continuing with the theme that fires are being allowed to burn in order to generate a high dollar business machine...could this fire have been put out or contained by just bringing out the supertanker as soon as it started?  What is the protocol for using it?

The fire started in the evening. They don't fly any tankers at night. As far as the crews trying to fight the fire. They said it was extremely dangerous because the fire was burning through an old timber area full of brush and dead snags that left from a fire back in the 1980's.
The fires was burning uphill .They said rocks and burning snags were falling and rolling downhill at them IN THE DARK.
This was all in today's MMT which you can access. Smiling
Well, I didn't mean literally the minute it started you know.
 OK but No I didn't know. You did ask about bringing out the supertanker as soon as it started? Smiling
Reply
#36
(07-27-2019, 05:56 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(07-27-2019, 04:31 PM)Juniper Wrote:
(07-27-2019, 04:22 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(07-27-2019, 01:23 PM)Juniper Wrote: So, continuing with the theme that fires are being allowed to burn in order to generate a high dollar business machine...could this fire have been put out or contained by just bringing out the supertanker as soon as it started?  What is the protocol for using it?

The fire started in the evening. They don't fly any tankers at night. As far as the crews trying to fight the fire. They said it was extremely dangerous because the fire was burning through an old timber area full of brush and dead snags that left from a fire back in the 1980's.
The fires was burning uphill .They said rocks and burning snags were falling and rolling downhill at them IN THE DARK.
This was all in today's MMT which you can access. Smiling
Well, I didn't mean literally the minute it started you know.
 OK but No I didn't know. You did ask about bringing out the supertanker as soon as it started? Smiling

Pendantic.  I need to remember who I'm talking with.
Reply
#37
(07-27-2019, 06:06 PM)Juniper Wrote:
(07-27-2019, 05:56 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(07-27-2019, 04:31 PM)Juniper Wrote:
(07-27-2019, 04:22 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(07-27-2019, 01:23 PM)Juniper Wrote: So, continuing with the theme that fires are being allowed to burn in order to generate a high dollar business machine...could this fire have been put out or contained by just bringing out the supertanker as soon as it started?  What is the protocol for using it?

The fire started in the evening. They don't fly any tankers at night. As far as the crews trying to fight the fire. They said it was extremely dangerous because the fire was burning through an old timber area full of brush and dead snags that left from a fire back in the 1980's.
The fires was burning uphill .They said rocks and burning snags were falling and rolling downhill at them IN THE DARK.
This was all in today's MMT which you can access. Smiling
Well, I didn't mean literally the minute it started you know.
 OK but No I didn't know. You did ask about bringing out the supertanker as soon as it started? Smiling

Pendantic.  I need to remember who I'm talking with.
So do I . You are often hard to understand in print and that's after corresponding with you for a decade.
And I do remember when that topic came up here and I was not alone with that opinion.

How am I supposed to know YOU don't know they don't fly tankers at night? Especially when you asked What is the protocol for using it?

When you say "as soon as it started"... silly me for thinking you actually meant... as soon as it started Laughing Laughing

What is an example of pedantic?

pedantic. The definition of pedantic is someone who is very concerned with the details of a subject and tends to overly show off their knowledge. An example of someone who is pedantic is a person at a party who bores everyone while talking at length about the origin and details of a particular piece of pottery.


REALLY?? Sad
Reply
#38
(07-27-2019, 06:25 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(07-27-2019, 06:06 PM)Juniper Wrote:
(07-27-2019, 05:56 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(07-27-2019, 04:31 PM)Juniper Wrote:
(07-27-2019, 04:22 PM)tvguy Wrote: The fire started in the evening. They don't fly any tankers at night. As far as the crews trying to fight the fire. They said it was extremely dangerous because the fire was burning through an old timber area full of brush and dead snags that left from a fire back in the 1980's.
The fires was burning uphill .They said rocks and burning snags were falling and rolling downhill at them IN THE DARK.
This was all in today's MMT which you can access. Smiling
Well, I didn't mean literally the minute it started you know.
 OK but No I didn't know. You did ask about bringing out the supertanker as soon as it started? Smiling

Pendantic.  I need to remember who I'm talking with.
So do I . You are often hard to understand in print and that's after corresponding with you for a decade.
And I do remember when that topic came up here and I was not alone with that opinion.

How am I supposed to know YOU don't know they don't fly tankers at night? Especially when you asked What is the protocol for using it?

When you say "as soon as it started"... silly me for thinking you actually meant... as soon as it started Laughing Laughing

What is an example of pedantic?

pedantic. The definition of pedantic is someone who is very concerned with the details of a subject and tends to overly show off their knowledge. An example of someone who is pedantic is a person at a party who bores everyone while talking at length about the origin and details of a particular piece of pottery.


REALLY?? Sad

That's one...but not what I mean.  There is also the definition of pendantic  in that the usage of language is a bit unimaginative, precise, nitpicky, literally accurate. When I say it about you, that's what I mean. Wink
Reply
#39
(07-27-2019, 08:19 PM)Juniper Wrote:
(07-27-2019, 06:25 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(07-27-2019, 06:06 PM)Juniper Wrote:
(07-27-2019, 05:56 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(07-27-2019, 04:31 PM)Juniper Wrote: Well, I didn't mean literally the minute it started you know.
 OK but No I didn't know. You did ask about bringing out the supertanker as soon as it started? Smiling

Pendantic.  I need to remember who I'm talking with.
So do I . You are often hard to understand in print and that's after corresponding with you for a decade.
And I do remember when that topic came up here and I was not alone with that opinion.

How am I supposed to know YOU don't know they don't fly tankers at night? Especially when you asked What is the protocol for using it?

When you say "as soon as it started"... silly me for thinking you actually meant... as soon as it started Laughing Laughing

What is an example of pedantic?

pedantic. The definition of pedantic is someone who is very concerned with the details of a subject and tends to overly show off their knowledge. An example of someone who is pedantic is a person at a party who bores everyone while talking at length about the origin and details of a particular piece of pottery.


REALLY?? Sad

That's one...but not what I mean.  There is also the definition of pendantic  in that the usage of language is a bit unimaginative, precise, nitpicky, literally accurate. When I say it about you, that's what I mean. Wink
I figured that because when I looked it up the other day, I gave up trying to choose which definition was right or wrong.
Any After reading the MMT article I'm fairly certain there were not serious problems from what I saw as far as how they handled the fire.


The funny thing that a lot of people don't understand is the forests are supposed to burn. They always have burned. It's part of the entire ecosystem.
And now people don't care how much money and manpower we use as long as we STOP the fires Confused Unsure Unsure
Reply
#40
(07-27-2019, 08:30 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(07-27-2019, 08:19 PM)Juniper Wrote:
(07-27-2019, 06:25 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(07-27-2019, 06:06 PM)Juniper Wrote:
(07-27-2019, 05:56 PM)tvguy Wrote:  OK but No I didn't know. You did ask about bringing out the supertanker as soon as it started? Smiling

Pendantic.  I need to remember who I'm talking with.
So do I . You are often hard to understand in print and that's after corresponding with you for a decade.
And I do remember when that topic came up here and I was not alone with that opinion.

How am I supposed to know YOU don't know they don't fly tankers at night? Especially when you asked What is the protocol for using it?

When you say "as soon as it started"... silly me for thinking you actually meant... as soon as it started Laughing Laughing

What is an example of pedantic?

pedantic. The definition of pedantic is someone who is very concerned with the details of a subject and tends to overly show off their knowledge. An example of someone who is pedantic is a person at a party who bores everyone while talking at length about the origin and details of a particular piece of pottery.


REALLY?? Sad

That's one...but not what I mean.  There is also the definition of pendantic  in that the usage of language is a bit unimaginative, precise, nitpicky, literally accurate. When I say it about you, that's what I mean. Wink
I figured that because when I looked it up the other day, I gave up trying to choose which definition was right or wrong.
Any After reading the MMT article I'm fairly certain there were not serious problems from what I saw as far as how they handled the fire.


The funny thing that a lot of people don't understand is the forests are supposed to burn. They always have burned. It's part of the entire ecosystem.
And now people don't care how much money and manpower we use as long as we STOP the fires Confused Unsure Unsure
What makes me laugh is people saying it's because we don't log anymore. If only we logged, this wouldn't be happening.  There are millions and millions of forest acreage.  When you look at a map of a wildfire, it's just a tiny little dot on an enormous map of forest. Even logging was just tiny little dots on millions of forest. No logging ever 'maintained' all that forest.
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