Roll Call
#61
(10-04-2021, 10:23 PM)Cuzz Wrote:
(10-04-2021, 09:30 PM)Juniper Wrote:
(10-04-2021, 07:10 PM)Someones Dad Wrote: I believe the natural immunity from having covid is as valid as the shot.  Multiple studies worldwide have said so, and Italy has agreed, giving antibody tests the same weight as vaccination cards.

That IS science.

I can't imagine why it wouldn't factor in some immunity.

I was convinced at Italy.


Wink

Haven't they reportedly achieved herd immunity?
Reply
#62
(10-04-2021, 10:51 PM)Juniper Wrote:
(10-04-2021, 10:23 PM)Cuzz Wrote:
(10-04-2021, 09:30 PM)Juniper Wrote:
(10-04-2021, 07:10 PM)Someones Dad Wrote: I believe the natural immunity from having covid is as valid as the shot.  Multiple studies worldwide have said so, and Italy has agreed, giving antibody tests the same weight as vaccination cards.

That IS science.

I can't imagine why it wouldn't factor in some immunity.

I was convinced at Italy.


Wink

Haven't they reportedly achieved herd immunity?

I don't think anywhere has achieved herd immunity.
Reply
#63
(10-05-2021, 10:30 AM)Cuzz Wrote:
(10-04-2021, 10:51 PM)Juniper Wrote:
(10-04-2021, 10:23 PM)Cuzz Wrote:
(10-04-2021, 09:30 PM)Juniper Wrote:
(10-04-2021, 07:10 PM)Someones Dad Wrote: I believe the natural immunity from having covid is as valid as the shot.  Multiple studies worldwide have said so, and Italy has agreed, giving antibody tests the same weight as vaccination cards.

That IS science.

I can't imagine why it wouldn't factor in some immunity.

I was convinced at Italy.


Wink

Haven't they reportedly achieved herd immunity?

I don't think anywhere has achieved herd immunity.

No such thing as herd immunity when the vax'ed can still spread disease.
Reply
#64
(10-04-2021, 07:10 PM)Someones Dad Wrote: I believe the natural immunity from having covid is as valid as the shot.  Multiple studies worldwide have said so, and Italy has agreed, giving antibody tests the same weight as vaccination cards.

That IS science.

I believe it's more valid
Reply
#65
(10-05-2021, 01:24 PM)GPnative Wrote:
(10-05-2021, 10:30 AM)Cuzz Wrote:
(10-04-2021, 10:51 PM)Juniper Wrote:
(10-04-2021, 10:23 PM)Cuzz Wrote:
(10-04-2021, 09:30 PM)Juniper Wrote: I can't imagine why it wouldn't factor in some immunity.

I was convinced at Italy.


Wink

Haven't they reportedly achieved herd immunity?

I don't think anywhere has achieved herd immunity.

No such thing as herd immunity when the vax'ed can still spread disease.
"Herd immunity occurs when a significant portion of a population achieves immunity to a disease"

 Non vaccinated people are certainly not immune but they by are the ones who are so sick they get hospitalized or die.
Vaccinated people are not immune either but the vaccine prevent the vast majority from getting so sick they need hospitalized.

So based on the definition above we will never have herd immunity.

But maybe we will be like Denmark or Norway who both have a vax rate of 70% and basically are done with any and all restrictions for covid.

 But probability not since only 57% are vaccinated and we have state and counties a with a lot less than that
Reply
#66
(10-04-2021, 10:51 PM)Juniper Wrote:
(10-04-2021, 10:23 PM)Cuzz Wrote:
(10-04-2021, 09:30 PM)Juniper Wrote:
(10-04-2021, 07:10 PM)Someones Dad Wrote: I believe the natural immunity from having covid is as valid as the shot.  Multiple studies worldwide have said so, and Italy has agreed, giving antibody tests the same weight as vaccination cards.

That IS science.

I can't imagine why it wouldn't factor in some immunity.

I was convinced at Italy.


Wink

Haven't they reportedly achieved herd immunity?

  Am I the only one who notices that these countries who have reached herd immunity ALL have very high rates of vaccination? Compared to us??





ROME, Sept. 7 (Xinhua) -- Italy is inching closer to achieving herd immunity against the coronavirus, according to Italy's pandemic commissioner.
Army Corps General Francesco Paolo Figliuolo, also Italy's Extraordinary Commissioner for the Coronavirus Emergency, said that more than 80 percent of eligible residents in Italy had received at least one vaccine dose, and he predicted the same percentage of eligible residents would be fully vaccinated by the end of September.
"Italy is nearing herd immunity," Figliuolo said. "By the end of the month, we will reach 80 percent of the population fully immunized."
Herd immunity refers to a point when enough of a population has resistance to an infectious disease, and it becomes difficult for the disease to spread in that population.
Reply
#67
(10-05-2021, 01:24 PM)GPnative Wrote:
(10-05-2021, 10:30 AM)Cuzz Wrote:
(10-04-2021, 10:51 PM)Juniper Wrote:
(10-04-2021, 10:23 PM)Cuzz Wrote:
(10-04-2021, 09:30 PM)Juniper Wrote: I can't imagine why it wouldn't factor in some immunity.

I was convinced at Italy.


Wink

Haven't they reportedly achieved herd immunity?

I don't think anywhere has achieved herd immunity.

No such thing as herd immunity when the vax'ed can still spread disease.
 Tell that to General Francesco Paolo Figliuolo Laughing  he has a different definition of "herd immunity" Blink



ROME, Sept. 7 (Xinhua) -- Italy is inching closer to achieving herd immunity against the coronavirus, according to Italy's pandemic commissioner.
Army Corps General Francesco Paolo Figliuolo, also Italy's Extraordinary Commissioner for the Coronavirus Emergency, said that more than 80 percent of eligible residents in Italy had received at least one vaccine dose, and he predicted the same percentage of eligible residents would be fully vaccinated by the end of September.
"Italy is nearing herd immunity," Figliuolo said. "By the end of the month, we will reach 80 percent of the population fully immunized."
Herd immunity refers to a point when enough of a population has resistance to an infectious disease, and it becomes difficult for the disease to spread in that population.
Reply
#68
tvguy, simple question. Do you believe the science of antibody immunity, and should that be considered to be equal to vaccinated?
Reply
#69
(10-05-2021, 04:04 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(10-05-2021, 01:24 PM)GPnative Wrote:
(10-05-2021, 10:30 AM)Cuzz Wrote:
(10-04-2021, 10:51 PM)Juniper Wrote:
(10-04-2021, 10:23 PM)Cuzz Wrote: I was convinced at Italy.


Wink

Haven't they reportedly achieved herd immunity?

I don't think anywhere has achieved herd immunity.

No such thing as herd immunity when the vax'ed can still spread disease.
 Tell that to General Francesco Paolo Figliuolo Laughing  he has a different definition of "herd immunity" Blink



ROME, Sept. 7 (Xinhua) -- Italy is inching closer to achieving herd immunity against the coronavirus, according to Italy's pandemic commissioner.
Army Corps General Francesco Paolo Figliuolo, also Italy's Extraordinary Commissioner for the Coronavirus Emergency, said that more than 80 percent of eligible residents in Italy had received at least one vaccine dose, and he predicted the same percentage of eligible residents would be fully vaccinated by the end of September.
"Italy is nearing herd immunity," Figliuolo said. "By the end of the month, we will reach 80 percent of the population fully immunized."
Herd immunity refers to a point when enough of a population has resistance to an infectious disease, and it becomes difficult for the disease to spread in that population.

Let's revisit this in 1 year from today, so I can say "i told you so" Besides, hitting a percentage benchmark as this magic immunity tipping point is meaningless if the disease is still ripping through the population of vaxed and unvaxed. Remember, polio, etc. we are talking eradicated, not percentages still succumbing to disease. To assign or assume the same results here by this spike protein therapy jab, nope. New cases new deaths happening in Italy, 70% be damned. 50 deaths on Tuesday and 2466 new cases.
Reply
#70
(10-05-2021, 05:47 PM)Someones Dad Wrote: tvguy, simple question. Do you believe the science of antibody immunity, and should that be considered to be equal to vaccinated?

  I believe what scientists say.
Also when 90% of the people so sick they need hospitalized are un vaccinated that alone should tell ANYONE the vaccine is working.




  If you've had COVID-19 before, does your natural immunity work better than a vaccine?  
The data is clear: Natural immunity is not better. The COVID-19 vaccines create more effective and longer-lasting immunity than natural immunity from infection.
  • More than a third of COVID-19 infections result in zero protective antibodies
  • Natural immunity fades faster than vaccine immunity
  • Natural immunity alone is less than half as effective than natural immunity plus vaccination
The takeaway: Get vaccinated, even if you've had COVID-19. Vaccine immunity is stronger than natural immunity.
"Natural immunity can be spotty. Some people can react vigorously and get a great antibody response. Other people don't get such a great response," says infectious diseases expert Mark Rupp, MD. "Clearly, vaccine-induced immunity is more standardized and can be longer-lasting."
A third of infections don't get any protective antibodies
Some people who get COVID-19 receive no protection from reinfection – their natural immunity is nonexistent. A recent study found that 36% of COVID-19 cases didn't result in development of SARS-CoV-2 antibodies. The people had different levels of illness – most had moderate disease, but some were asymptomatic and some experienced severe COVID-19. 
"Vaccine-induced immunity is more predictable than natural immunity," says Dr. Rupp. The COVID-19 vaccines provide great protection from severe disease, hospitalization and death.
Natural immunity fades more quickly than vaccine immunity
Natural immunity can decay within about 90 days. Immunity from COVID-19 vaccines has been shown to last longer. Both Pfizer and Moderna reported strong vaccine protection for at least six months. 
Studies are ongoing to evaluate the full duration of protective immunity, including the Johnson & Johnson vaccine.
Real-world studies also indicate natural immunity's short life. For example, 65% of people with a lower baseline antibody from infection to begin with completely lost their COVID-19 antibodies by 60 days.
What about that Israeli study suggesting natural immunity is stronger? Infectious diseases expert James Lawler, MD, MPH, FIDSA, carefully evaluates the study design of the retrospective Maccabi Health System study in his Aug. 31 briefing. In the briefing, he identifies two concerning sources of error that were not corrected for: survivorship bias and selection bias.
Natural immunity alone is weak
One study compared natural immunity alone to natural immunity plus vaccination. They found that, after infection, unvaccinated people are 2.34 times likelier to get COVID-19 again, compared to fully vaccinated people. So vaccinated people (after infection) have half the risk of reinfection than people relying on natural immunity alone.
"Studies show that the vaccine gives a very good booster response if you've had COVID-19 before," says Dr. Rupp.
Furthermore, there is no country on the globe in which natural infection and natural immunity has brought the pandemic under control. In countries like Iran or Brazil very high levels of natural infection have not prevented recurrent waves of infection.  

https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/covid-...accination
Reply
#71
(10-05-2021, 06:07 PM)GPnative Wrote:
(10-05-2021, 04:04 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(10-05-2021, 01:24 PM)GPnative Wrote:
(10-05-2021, 10:30 AM)Cuzz Wrote:
(10-04-2021, 10:51 PM)Juniper Wrote: Haven't they reportedly achieved herd immunity?

I don't think anywhere has achieved herd immunity.

No such thing as herd immunity when the vax'ed can still spread disease.
 Tell that to General Francesco Paolo Figliuolo Laughing  he has a different definition of "herd immunity" Blink



ROME, Sept. 7 (Xinhua) -- Italy is inching closer to achieving herd immunity against the coronavirus, according to Italy's pandemic commissioner.
Army Corps General Francesco Paolo Figliuolo, also Italy's Extraordinary Commissioner for the Coronavirus Emergency, said that more than 80 percent of eligible residents in Italy had received at least one vaccine dose, and he predicted the same percentage of eligible residents would be fully vaccinated by the end of September.
"Italy is nearing herd immunity," Figliuolo said. "By the end of the month, we will reach 80 percent of the population fully immunized."
Herd immunity refers to a point when enough of a population has resistance to an infectious disease, and it becomes difficult for the disease to spread in that population.

Let's revisit this in 1 year from today, so I can say "i told you so" Besides, hitting a percentage benchmark as this magic immunity tipping point is meaningless if the disease is still ripping through the population of vaxed and unvaxed. Remember, polio, etc. we are talking eradicated, not percentages still succumbing to disease. To assign or assume the same results here by this spike protein therapy jab, nope. New cases new deaths happening in Italy, 70% be damned. 50 deaths on Tuesday and 2466 new cases.

"if the disease is still ripping through the population of vaxed and unvaxed"

 the disease is clearly ripping through the un vaxed as far as severity.

Remember, polio, etc. we are talking eradicated, not percentages still succumbing to disease.
 
 OK so covid is not polio and we don't have a vaccine that will eradicate covid. So what???
 It's still working very well and the hospital day proves as much.

And what is what you said Italy supposed to be proving? I mean other than the fact that now that 70% of the population is vaccinated the death count is now extremely low.

 

 

[Image: Italy.jpg]
Reply
#72
(10-05-2021, 08:13 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(10-05-2021, 05:47 PM)Someones Dad Wrote: tvguy, simple question. Do you believe the science of antibody immunity, and should that be considered to be equal to vaccinated?

  I believe what scientists say.
Also when 90% of the people so sick they need hospitalized are un vaccinated that alone should tell ANYONE the vaccine is working.




  If you've had COVID-19 before, does your natural immunity work better than a vaccine?  
The data is clear: Natural immunity is not better. The COVID-19 vaccines create more effective and longer-lasting immunity than natural immunity from infection.
  • More than a third of COVID-19 infections result in zero protective antibodies
  • Natural immunity fades faster than vaccine immunity
  • Natural immunity alone is less than half as effective than natural immunity plus vaccination
The takeaway: Get vaccinated, even if you've had COVID-19. Vaccine immunity is stronger than natural immunity.
"Natural immunity can be spotty. Some people can react vigorously and get a great antibody response. Other people don't get such a great response," says infectious diseases expert Mark Rupp, MD. "Clearly, vaccine-induced immunity is more standardized and can be longer-lasting."
A third of infections don't get any protective antibodies
Some people who get COVID-19 receive no protection from reinfection – their natural immunity is nonexistent. A recent study found that 36% of COVID-19 cases didn't result in development of SARS-CoV-2 antibodies. The people had different levels of illness – most had moderate disease, but some were asymptomatic and some experienced severe COVID-19. 
"Vaccine-induced immunity is more predictable than natural immunity," says Dr. Rupp. The COVID-19 vaccines provide great protection from severe disease, hospitalization and death.
Natural immunity fades more quickly than vaccine immunity
Natural immunity can decay within about 90 days. Immunity from COVID-19 vaccines has been shown to last longer. Both Pfizer and Moderna reported strong vaccine protection for at least six months. 
Studies are ongoing to evaluate the full duration of protective immunity, including the Johnson & Johnson vaccine.
Real-world studies also indicate natural immunity's short life. For example, 65% of people with a lower baseline antibody from infection to begin with completely lost their COVID-19 antibodies by 60 days.
What about that Israeli study suggesting natural immunity is stronger? Infectious diseases expert James Lawler, MD, MPH, FIDSA, carefully evaluates the study design of the retrospective Maccabi Health System study in his Aug. 31 briefing. In the briefing, he identifies two concerning sources of error that were not corrected for: survivorship bias and selection bias.
Natural immunity alone is weak
One study compared natural immunity alone to natural immunity plus vaccination. They found that, after infection, unvaccinated people are 2.34 times likelier to get COVID-19 again, compared to fully vaccinated people. So vaccinated people (after infection) have half the risk of reinfection than people relying on natural immunity alone.
"Studies show that the vaccine gives a very good booster response if you've had COVID-19 before," says Dr. Rupp.
Furthermore, there is no country on the globe in which natural infection and natural immunity has brought the pandemic under control. In countries like Iran or Brazil very high levels of natural infection have not prevented recurrent waves of infection.  

https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/covid-...accination

You certainly aren't one for yes or no questions...

And science is subjective, with many differing viewpoints.


Quote:Former Assistant Secretary of Health and Human Services (HHS), Dr. and Admiral Brett Giroir: "But I think you, if you have proof of Covid infection, right now that’s still equivalent to vaccine immunity. And even The CDC recognizes that. If you’re an American coming back into this country, if you’ve had proof of a previous Covid infection, you don’t even need to be tested. So I think when businesses reopen, they ought to consider natural immunity, vaccine immunity, all equivalent to get you back in the workplace."

And for the record, in case you forgot, I did get the shot.  I am just adamantly opposed to FORCED anything.  I will fight for the rights of others who think differently than I do. It's kind of the American thing to do.
Reply
#73
(10-06-2021, 09:58 AM)Someones Dad Wrote:
(10-05-2021, 08:13 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(10-05-2021, 05:47 PM)Someones Dad Wrote: tvguy, simple question. Do you believe the science of antibody immunity, and should that be considered to be equal to vaccinated?

  I believe what scientists say.
Also when 90% of the people so sick they need hospitalized are un vaccinated that alone should tell ANYONE the vaccine is working.




  If you've had COVID-19 before, does your natural immunity work better than a vaccine?  
The data is clear: Natural immunity is not better. The COVID-19 vaccines create more effective and longer-lasting immunity than natural immunity from infection.
  • More than a third of COVID-19 infections result in zero protective antibodies
  • Natural immunity fades faster than vaccine immunity
  • Natural immunity alone is less than half as effective than natural immunity plus vaccination
The takeaway: Get vaccinated, even if you've had COVID-19. Vaccine immunity is stronger than natural immunity.
"Natural immunity can be spotty. Some people can react vigorously and get a great antibody response. Other people don't get such a great response," says infectious diseases expert Mark Rupp, MD. "Clearly, vaccine-induced immunity is more standardized and can be longer-lasting."
A third of infections don't get any protective antibodies
Some people who get COVID-19 receive no protection from reinfection – their natural immunity is nonexistent. A recent study found that 36% of COVID-19 cases didn't result in development of SARS-CoV-2 antibodies. The people had different levels of illness – most had moderate disease, but some were asymptomatic and some experienced severe COVID-19. 
"Vaccine-induced immunity is more predictable than natural immunity," says Dr. Rupp. The COVID-19 vaccines provide great protection from severe disease, hospitalization and death.
Natural immunity fades more quickly than vaccine immunity
Natural immunity can decay within about 90 days. Immunity from COVID-19 vaccines has been shown to last longer. Both Pfizer and Moderna reported strong vaccine protection for at least six months. 
Studies are ongoing to evaluate the full duration of protective immunity, including the Johnson & Johnson vaccine.
Real-world studies also indicate natural immunity's short life. For example, 65% of people with a lower baseline antibody from infection to begin with completely lost their COVID-19 antibodies by 60 days.
What about that Israeli study suggesting natural immunity is stronger? Infectious diseases expert James Lawler, MD, MPH, FIDSA, carefully evaluates the study design of the retrospective Maccabi Health System study in his Aug. 31 briefing. In the briefing, he identifies two concerning sources of error that were not corrected for: survivorship bias and selection bias.
Natural immunity alone is weak
One study compared natural immunity alone to natural immunity plus vaccination. They found that, after infection, unvaccinated people are 2.34 times likelier to get COVID-19 again, compared to fully vaccinated people. So vaccinated people (after infection) have half the risk of reinfection than people relying on natural immunity alone.
"Studies show that the vaccine gives a very good booster response if you've had COVID-19 before," says Dr. Rupp.
Furthermore, there is no country on the globe in which natural infection and natural immunity has brought the pandemic under control. In countries like Iran or Brazil very high levels of natural infection have not prevented recurrent waves of infection.  

https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/covid-...accination

You certainly aren't one for yes or no questions...

And science is subjective, with many differing viewpoints.


Quote:Former Assistant Secretary of Health and Human Services (HHS), Dr. and Admiral Brett Giroir: "But I think you, if you have proof of Covid infection, right now that’s still equivalent to vaccine immunity. And even The CDC recognizes that. If you’re an American coming back into this country, if you’ve had proof of a previous Covid infection, you don’t even need to be tested. So I think when businesses reopen, they ought to consider natural immunity, vaccine immunity, all equivalent to get you back in the workplace."

And for the record, in case you forgot, I did get the shot.  I am just adamantly opposed to FORCED anything.  I will fight for the rights of others who think differently than I do. It's kind of the American thing to do.

Very insidious to strip people of their fundamental right to choose what goes into their body. No one should support forced procedures or treatments for any reason. It's evil at it's core. Queue the response that no one is being forced to do anything, because you know, stripping people of their ability to work, buy, sell, travel, eat, receive medical care, etc. is not a forced hand at all Rolling Eyes
Reply
#74
The only problem with natural immunity, is that it's free.
Reply
#75
(10-06-2021, 09:08 PM)Someones Dad Wrote: The only problem with natural immunity, is that it's free.

At least three people with a stake in the coronavirus vaccine race have just made a list of the top 400 richest people in America.

Moderna's chairman Noubar Afeyan, one of the company's founders along with board member Robert Langer, and early investor Timothy Springer each made their debut in this year's tally produced by business magazine Forbes.

For its rankings, Forbes estimated the fortune of Afeyan, the Moderna chairman, to be nearly $5 billion.

But don't worry, they are totally looking out for you and your health. Their motivations are pure as the wind driven snow.
Reply
#76
(10-06-2021, 10:21 AM)GPnative Wrote:
(10-06-2021, 09:58 AM)Someones Dad Wrote:
(10-05-2021, 08:13 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(10-05-2021, 05:47 PM)Someones Dad Wrote: tvguy, simple question. Do you believe the science of antibody immunity, and should that be considered to be equal to vaccinated?

  I believe what scientists say.
Also when 90% of the people so sick they need hospitalized are un vaccinated that alone should tell ANYONE the vaccine is working.




  If you've had COVID-19 before, does your natural immunity work better than a vaccine?  
The data is clear: Natural immunity is not better. The COVID-19 vaccines create more effective and longer-lasting immunity than natural immunity from infection.
  • More than a third of COVID-19 infections result in zero protective antibodies
  • Natural immunity fades faster than vaccine immunity
  • Natural immunity alone is less than half as effective than natural immunity plus vaccination
The takeaway: Get vaccinated, even if you've had COVID-19. Vaccine immunity is stronger than natural immunity.
"Natural immunity can be spotty. Some people can react vigorously and get a great antibody response. Other people don't get such a great response," says infectious diseases expert Mark Rupp, MD. "Clearly, vaccine-induced immunity is more standardized and can be longer-lasting."
A third of infections don't get any protective antibodies
Some people who get COVID-19 receive no protection from reinfection – their natural immunity is nonexistent. A recent study found that 36% of COVID-19 cases didn't result in development of SARS-CoV-2 antibodies. The people had different levels of illness – most had moderate disease, but some were asymptomatic and some experienced severe COVID-19. 
"Vaccine-induced immunity is more predictable than natural immunity," says Dr. Rupp. The COVID-19 vaccines provide great protection from severe disease, hospitalization and death.
Natural immunity fades more quickly than vaccine immunity
Natural immunity can decay within about 90 days. Immunity from COVID-19 vaccines has been shown to last longer. Both Pfizer and Moderna reported strong vaccine protection for at least six months. 
Studies are ongoing to evaluate the full duration of protective immunity, including the Johnson & Johnson vaccine.
Real-world studies also indicate natural immunity's short life. For example, 65% of people with a lower baseline antibody from infection to begin with completely lost their COVID-19 antibodies by 60 days.
What about that Israeli study suggesting natural immunity is stronger? Infectious diseases expert James Lawler, MD, MPH, FIDSA, carefully evaluates the study design of the retrospective Maccabi Health System study in his Aug. 31 briefing. In the briefing, he identifies two concerning sources of error that were not corrected for: survivorship bias and selection bias.
Natural immunity alone is weak
One study compared natural immunity alone to natural immunity plus vaccination. They found that, after infection, unvaccinated people are 2.34 times likelier to get COVID-19 again, compared to fully vaccinated people. So vaccinated people (after infection) have half the risk of reinfection than people relying on natural immunity alone.
"Studies show that the vaccine gives a very good booster response if you've had COVID-19 before," says Dr. Rupp.
Furthermore, there is no country on the globe in which natural infection and natural immunity has brought the pandemic under control. In countries like Iran or Brazil very high levels of natural infection have not prevented recurrent waves of infection.  

https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/covid-...accination

You certainly aren't one for yes or no questions...

And science is subjective, with many differing viewpoints.


Quote:Former Assistant Secretary of Health and Human Services (HHS), Dr. and Admiral Brett Giroir: "But I think you, if you have proof of Covid infection, right now that’s still equivalent to vaccine immunity. And even The CDC recognizes that. If you’re an American coming back into this country, if you’ve had proof of a previous Covid infection, you don’t even need to be tested. So I think when businesses reopen, they ought to consider natural immunity, vaccine immunity, all equivalent to get you back in the workplace."

And for the record, in case you forgot, I did get the shot.  I am just adamantly opposed to FORCED anything.  I will fight for the rights of others who think differently than I do. It's kind of the American thing to do.

Very insidious to strip people of their fundamental right to choose what goes into their body. No one should support forced procedures or treatments for any reason. It's evil at it's core. Queue the response that no one is being forced to do anything, because you know, stripping people of their ability to work, buy, sell, travel, eat, receive medical care, etc. is not a forced hand at all Rolling Eyes
Yes, because we haven't had to prove (for decades!) that our children are vaccinated in order to attend school.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
Reply
#77
(10-07-2021, 08:00 AM)Scrapper Wrote:
(10-06-2021, 10:21 AM)GPnative Wrote:
(10-06-2021, 09:58 AM)Someones Dad Wrote:
(10-05-2021, 08:13 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(10-05-2021, 05:47 PM)Someones Dad Wrote: tvguy, simple question. Do you believe the science of antibody immunity, and should that be considered to be equal to vaccinated?

  I believe what scientists say.
Also when 90% of the people so sick they need hospitalized are un vaccinated that alone should tell ANYONE the vaccine is working.




  If you've had COVID-19 before, does your natural immunity work better than a vaccine?  
The data is clear: Natural immunity is not better. The COVID-19 vaccines create more effective and longer-lasting immunity than natural immunity from infection.
  • More than a third of COVID-19 infections result in zero protective antibodies
  • Natural immunity fades faster than vaccine immunity
  • Natural immunity alone is less than half as effective than natural immunity plus vaccination
The takeaway: Get vaccinated, even if you've had COVID-19. Vaccine immunity is stronger than natural immunity.
"Natural immunity can be spotty. Some people can react vigorously and get a great antibody response. Other people don't get such a great response," says infectious diseases expert Mark Rupp, MD. "Clearly, vaccine-induced immunity is more standardized and can be longer-lasting."
A third of infections don't get any protective antibodies
Some people who get COVID-19 receive no protection from reinfection – their natural immunity is nonexistent. A recent study found that 36% of COVID-19 cases didn't result in development of SARS-CoV-2 antibodies. The people had different levels of illness – most had moderate disease, but some were asymptomatic and some experienced severe COVID-19. 
"Vaccine-induced immunity is more predictable than natural immunity," says Dr. Rupp. The COVID-19 vaccines provide great protection from severe disease, hospitalization and death.
Natural immunity fades more quickly than vaccine immunity
Natural immunity can decay within about 90 days. Immunity from COVID-19 vaccines has been shown to last longer. Both Pfizer and Moderna reported strong vaccine protection for at least six months. 
Studies are ongoing to evaluate the full duration of protective immunity, including the Johnson & Johnson vaccine.
Real-world studies also indicate natural immunity's short life. For example, 65% of people with a lower baseline antibody from infection to begin with completely lost their COVID-19 antibodies by 60 days.
What about that Israeli study suggesting natural immunity is stronger? Infectious diseases expert James Lawler, MD, MPH, FIDSA, carefully evaluates the study design of the retrospective Maccabi Health System study in his Aug. 31 briefing. In the briefing, he identifies two concerning sources of error that were not corrected for: survivorship bias and selection bias.
Natural immunity alone is weak
One study compared natural immunity alone to natural immunity plus vaccination. They found that, after infection, unvaccinated people are 2.34 times likelier to get COVID-19 again, compared to fully vaccinated people. So vaccinated people (after infection) have half the risk of reinfection than people relying on natural immunity alone.
"Studies show that the vaccine gives a very good booster response if you've had COVID-19 before," says Dr. Rupp.
Furthermore, there is no country on the globe in which natural infection and natural immunity has brought the pandemic under control. In countries like Iran or Brazil very high levels of natural infection have not prevented recurrent waves of infection.  

https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/covid-...accination

You certainly aren't one for yes or no questions...

And science is subjective, with many differing viewpoints.


Quote:Former Assistant Secretary of Health and Human Services (HHS), Dr. and Admiral Brett Giroir: "But I think you, if you have proof of Covid infection, right now that’s still equivalent to vaccine immunity. And even The CDC recognizes that. If you’re an American coming back into this country, if you’ve had proof of a previous Covid infection, you don’t even need to be tested. So I think when businesses reopen, they ought to consider natural immunity, vaccine immunity, all equivalent to get you back in the workplace."

And for the record, in case you forgot, I did get the shot.  I am just adamantly opposed to FORCED anything.  I will fight for the rights of others who think differently than I do. It's kind of the American thing to do.

Very insidious to strip people of their fundamental right to choose what goes into their body. No one should support forced procedures or treatments for any reason. It's evil at it's core. Queue the response that no one is being forced to do anything, because you know, stripping people of their ability to work, buy, sell, travel, eat, receive medical care, etc. is not a forced hand at all Rolling Eyes
Yes, because we haven't had to prove (for decades!) that our children are vaccinated in order to attend school.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Not even close to the same thing. Home school exists and exemptions exist (exemptions that don't require review and approval by some government entity) With the exception of communist California, but you still would have the choice to leave the state to a state that still abides personal freedom.

And of course those were all tried and true vaccines not this experimental rush job with zero long term data.
Reply
#78
(10-07-2021, 08:58 AM)GPnative Wrote:
(10-07-2021, 08:00 AM)Scrapper Wrote:
(10-06-2021, 10:21 AM)GPnative Wrote:
(10-06-2021, 09:58 AM)Someones Dad Wrote:
(10-05-2021, 08:13 PM)tvguy Wrote:   I believe what scientists say.
Also when 90% of the people so sick they need hospitalized are un vaccinated that alone should tell ANYONE the vaccine is working.




  If you've had COVID-19 before, does your natural immunity work better than a vaccine?  
The data is clear: Natural immunity is not better. The COVID-19 vaccines create more effective and longer-lasting immunity than natural immunity from infection.
  • More than a third of COVID-19 infections result in zero protective antibodies
  • Natural immunity fades faster than vaccine immunity
  • Natural immunity alone is less than half as effective than natural immunity plus vaccination
The takeaway: Get vaccinated, even if you've had COVID-19. Vaccine immunity is stronger than natural immunity.
"Natural immunity can be spotty. Some people can react vigorously and get a great antibody response. Other people don't get such a great response," says infectious diseases expert Mark Rupp, MD. "Clearly, vaccine-induced immunity is more standardized and can be longer-lasting."
A third of infections don't get any protective antibodies
Some people who get COVID-19 receive no protection from reinfection – their natural immunity is nonexistent. A recent study found that 36% of COVID-19 cases didn't result in development of SARS-CoV-2 antibodies. The people had different levels of illness – most had moderate disease, but some were asymptomatic and some experienced severe COVID-19. 
"Vaccine-induced immunity is more predictable than natural immunity," says Dr. Rupp. The COVID-19 vaccines provide great protection from severe disease, hospitalization and death.
Natural immunity fades more quickly than vaccine immunity
Natural immunity can decay within about 90 days. Immunity from COVID-19 vaccines has been shown to last longer. Both Pfizer and Moderna reported strong vaccine protection for at least six months. 
Studies are ongoing to evaluate the full duration of protective immunity, including the Johnson & Johnson vaccine.
Real-world studies also indicate natural immunity's short life. For example, 65% of people with a lower baseline antibody from infection to begin with completely lost their COVID-19 antibodies by 60 days.
What about that Israeli study suggesting natural immunity is stronger? Infectious diseases expert James Lawler, MD, MPH, FIDSA, carefully evaluates the study design of the retrospective Maccabi Health System study in his Aug. 31 briefing. In the briefing, he identifies two concerning sources of error that were not corrected for: survivorship bias and selection bias.
Natural immunity alone is weak
One study compared natural immunity alone to natural immunity plus vaccination. They found that, after infection, unvaccinated people are 2.34 times likelier to get COVID-19 again, compared to fully vaccinated people. So vaccinated people (after infection) have half the risk of reinfection than people relying on natural immunity alone.
"Studies show that the vaccine gives a very good booster response if you've had COVID-19 before," says Dr. Rupp.
Furthermore, there is no country on the globe in which natural infection and natural immunity has brought the pandemic under control. In countries like Iran or Brazil very high levels of natural infection have not prevented recurrent waves of infection.  

https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/covid-...accination

You certainly aren't one for yes or no questions...

And science is subjective, with many differing viewpoints.


Quote:Former Assistant Secretary of Health and Human Services (HHS), Dr. and Admiral Brett Giroir: "But I think you, if you have proof of Covid infection, right now that’s still equivalent to vaccine immunity. And even The CDC recognizes that. If you’re an American coming back into this country, if you’ve had proof of a previous Covid infection, you don’t even need to be tested. So I think when businesses reopen, they ought to consider natural immunity, vaccine immunity, all equivalent to get you back in the workplace."

And for the record, in case you forgot, I did get the shot.  I am just adamantly opposed to FORCED anything.  I will fight for the rights of others who think differently than I do. It's kind of the American thing to do.

Very insidious to strip people of their fundamental right to choose what goes into their body. No one should support forced procedures or treatments for any reason. It's evil at it's core. Queue the response that no one is being forced to do anything, because you know, stripping people of their ability to work, buy, sell, travel, eat, receive medical care, etc. is not a forced hand at all Rolling Eyes
Yes, because we haven't had to prove (for decades!) that our children are vaccinated in order to attend school.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Not even close to the same thing. Home school exists and exemptions exist (exemptions that don't require review and approval by some government entity) With the exception of communist California, but you still would have the choice to leave the state to a state that still abides personal freedom.

And of course those were all tried and true vaccines not this experimental rush job with zero long term data.

And of course Sweden/Denmark are stopping use of Moderna in some younger age groups for causing myocarditis. Of course, would we expect the same or even allow the questions to be raised in this country, Nope, shut up do your duty and get the shot, Or else.
Reply
#79
(10-06-2021, 10:21 AM)GPnative Wrote:
(10-06-2021, 09:58 AM)Someones Dad Wrote:
(10-05-2021, 08:13 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(10-05-2021, 05:47 PM)Someones Dad Wrote: tvguy, simple question. Do you believe the science of antibody immunity, and should that be considered to be equal to vaccinated?

  I believe what scientists say.
Also when 90% of the people so sick they need hospitalized are un vaccinated that alone should tell ANYONE the vaccine is working.




  If you've had COVID-19 before, does your natural immunity work better than a vaccine?  
The data is clear: Natural immunity is not better. The COVID-19 vaccines create more effective and longer-lasting immunity than natural immunity from infection.
  • More than a third of COVID-19 infections result in zero protective antibodies
  • Natural immunity fades faster than vaccine immunity
  • Natural immunity alone is less than half as effective than natural immunity plus vaccination
The takeaway: Get vaccinated, even if you've had COVID-19. Vaccine immunity is stronger than natural immunity.
"Natural immunity can be spotty. Some people can react vigorously and get a great antibody response. Other people don't get such a great response," says infectious diseases expert Mark Rupp, MD. "Clearly, vaccine-induced immunity is more standardized and can be longer-lasting."
A third of infections don't get any protective antibodies
Some people who get COVID-19 receive no protection from reinfection – their natural immunity is nonexistent. A recent study found that 36% of COVID-19 cases didn't result in development of SARS-CoV-2 antibodies. The people had different levels of illness – most had moderate disease, but some were asymptomatic and some experienced severe COVID-19. 
"Vaccine-induced immunity is more predictable than natural immunity," says Dr. Rupp. The COVID-19 vaccines provide great protection from severe disease, hospitalization and death.
Natural immunity fades more quickly than vaccine immunity
Natural immunity can decay within about 90 days. Immunity from COVID-19 vaccines has been shown to last longer. Both Pfizer and Moderna reported strong vaccine protection for at least six months. 
Studies are ongoing to evaluate the full duration of protective immunity, including the Johnson & Johnson vaccine.
Real-world studies also indicate natural immunity's short life. For example, 65% of people with a lower baseline antibody from infection to begin with completely lost their COVID-19 antibodies by 60 days.
What about that Israeli study suggesting natural immunity is stronger? Infectious diseases expert James Lawler, MD, MPH, FIDSA, carefully evaluates the study design of the retrospective Maccabi Health System study in his Aug. 31 briefing. In the briefing, he identifies two concerning sources of error that were not corrected for: survivorship bias and selection bias.
Natural immunity alone is weak
One study compared natural immunity alone to natural immunity plus vaccination. They found that, after infection, unvaccinated people are 2.34 times likelier to get COVID-19 again, compared to fully vaccinated people. So vaccinated people (after infection) have half the risk of reinfection than people relying on natural immunity alone.
"Studies show that the vaccine gives a very good booster response if you've had COVID-19 before," says Dr. Rupp.
Furthermore, there is no country on the globe in which natural infection and natural immunity has brought the pandemic under control. In countries like Iran or Brazil very high levels of natural infection have not prevented recurrent waves of infection.  

https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/covid-...accination

You certainly aren't one for yes or no questions...

And science is subjective, with many differing viewpoints.


Quote:Former Assistant Secretary of Health and Human Services (HHS), Dr. and Admiral Brett Giroir: "But I think you, if you have proof of Covid infection, right now that’s still equivalent to vaccine immunity. And even The CDC recognizes that. If you’re an American coming back into this country, if you’ve had proof of a previous Covid infection, you don’t even need to be tested. So I think when businesses reopen, they ought to consider natural immunity, vaccine immunity, all equivalent to get you back in the workplace."

And for the record, in case you forgot, I did get the shot.  I am just adamantly opposed to FORCED anything.  I will fight for the rights of others who think differently than I do. It's kind of the American thing to do.

Very insidious to strip people of their fundamental right to choose what goes into their body. No one should support forced procedures or treatments for any reason. It's evil at it's core. Queue the response that no one is being forced to do anything, because you know, stripping people of their ability to work, buy, sell, travel, eat, receive medical care, etc. is not a forced hand at all Rolling Eyes

It's evil at it's core. Rolling Eyes
The vaccines have saved countless lives. You can say it's not right, it's not fair or whatever buy saying it's evil is ridiculous.
Reply
#80
(10-07-2021, 09:05 AM)GPnative Wrote:
(10-07-2021, 08:58 AM)GPnative Wrote:
(10-07-2021, 08:00 AM)Scrapper Wrote:
(10-06-2021, 10:21 AM)GPnative Wrote:
(10-06-2021, 09:58 AM)Someones Dad Wrote: You certainly aren't one for yes or no questions...

And science is subjective, with many differing viewpoints.



And for the record, in case you forgot, I did get the shot.  I am just adamantly opposed to FORCED anything.  I will fight for the rights of others who think differently than I do. It's kind of the American thing to do.

Very insidious to strip people of their fundamental right to choose what goes into their body. No one should support forced procedures or treatments for any reason. It's evil at it's core. Queue the response that no one is being forced to do anything, because you know, stripping people of their ability to work, buy, sell, travel, eat, receive medical care, etc. is not a forced hand at all Rolling Eyes
Yes, because we haven't had to prove (for decades!) that our children are vaccinated in order to attend school.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Not even close to the same thing. Home school exists and exemptions exist (exemptions that don't require review and approval by some government entity) With the exception of communist California, but you still would have the choice to leave the state to a state that still abides personal freedom.

And of course those were all tried and true vaccines not this experimental rush job with zero long term data.

And of course Sweden/Denmark are stopping use of Moderna in some younger age groups for causing myocarditis. Of course, would we expect the same or even allow the questions to be raised in this country, Nope, shut up do your duty and get the shot, Or else.
OH I see just because a couple other countries have a different opinion in your mind that automatically means they are right and we are not?
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