Hidden Fees and Taxes
#1
Just curious.....how many of you are aware of the hidden (not really hidden but not noticed either) fees on your Pacific Power bill. It burns me up this time every month when I go to pay my companies power bill for all the northwest region. Pacific Power is the worst.

I pay a $200,000 monthly Pacific Power bill for a large manufacturing plant in the valley. Approximately $1,400 has nothing to do with our power bill. Yes, I typed $1,400. Here they are:

Public Purpose charge
Energy Conservation charge
Low Income Assistance charge
J C Boyle Dan Removal Surcharge
Copco Iron Gate Dams Removal Surcharge

Have you ever looked at your personal power bill. For me it is between $10 and $15 per month.

I think it is outrageous that we had to pay to put the dams up and now we have to pay to have them torn down. Disgusting.
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#2
make the salmon pay. they have fat bank accounts.
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#3
(09-22-2011, 02:24 PM)bbqboy Wrote: make the salmon pay. they have fat bank accounts.

Very funny.....

This $14,000 is just one plant in a region with 8 plants. Granted that it is the largest monthly bill but those aren't the only add on's. The actual bill for electricity use is about $180,000 per month.

Just imagine how many employees weren't hired or actually lost their jobs due to this overhead in this year when we are short handed and making due.
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#4
I knew the poachers who built those dams. And, ended their own livlihood.
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#5
Is it $14,000 or $1,400, you have two numbers here.
$1,400 out of $200,000 doesn't sound so bad.
$14,000 I could see some interest.
They could remove those charges and just increase the amount per kilowatt hour. would that make you happy?

I believe you should be looking at energy conservation to lower your bills.
What kind of lighting our you using? we just replaced our lights with new low energy lights that will pay for the replacement cost in about one years time.

Also is there more efficient machinery that could replace older less efficient stuff?

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#6
(09-22-2011, 05:12 PM)chuck white Wrote: Is it $14,000 or $1,400, you have two numbers here.
$1,400 out of $200,000 doesn't sound so bad.
$14,000 I could see some interest.
They could remove those charges and just increase the amount per kilowatt hour. would that make you happy?

I believe you should be looking at energy conservation to lower your bills.
What kind of lighting our you using? we just replaced our lights with new low energy lights that will pay for the replacement cost in about one years time.

Also is there more efficient machinery that could replace older less efficient stuff?

Sorry...$14,000. This is a very large manufacturing plant that currently employs over 500 hourly employees and many salaried. Used to employ about 1500 5 years ago. Believe me....part of my job is analyzing the bills so that management can evalute costs with each mill.
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#7
Wow, you spend $400 a month per employee, That's about as much as I pay in the winter (all electric) seems reasonable with lighting , heating and cooling is probably half your power bill.

The fact that the fees are list separately on your bill is more of an in your face fees and taxes and not a hidden one.
I believe the PUC controls all that. Kind of glad to see them tell us what they are doing with the fees instead of just jacking up the electric rates and taking it from the power company.
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#8
(09-22-2011, 08:32 PM)chuck white Wrote: Wow, you spend $400 a month per employee, That's about as much as I pay in the winter (all electric) seems reasonable with lighting , heating and cooling is probably half your power bill.

The fact that the fees are list separately on your bill is more of an in your face fees and taxes and not a hidden one.
I believe the PUC controls all that. Kind of glad to see them tell us what they are doing with the fees instead of just jacking up the electric rates and taking it from the power company.

Most plants work two shifts, a few only one (all used to run 3) but the main one where this bill comes from runs 24/7.

Your home bill lists all these as well. For a $90 bill for end of July/early August the these costs were $7.60. For you bill of $400, that is probably about $30 in fees.

I call these fees hidden not because you can't see them but because no one ever checks their bills that closely. I sure didn't before this job.

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#9
Who employs 500 people in this valley?
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#10
(09-22-2011, 01:16 PM)Snowlover Wrote: Just curious.....how many of you are aware of the hidden (not really hidden but not noticed either) fees on your Pacific Power bill. It burns me up this time every month when I go to pay my companies power bill for all the northwest region. Pacific Power is the worst.

I pay a $200,000 monthly Pacific Power bill for a large manufacturing plant in the valley. Approximately $1,400 has nothing to do with our power bill. Yes, I typed $1,400. Here they are:

Public Purpose charge
Energy Conservation charge
Low Income Assistance charge
J C Boyle Dan Removal Surcharge
Copco Iron Gate Dams Removal Surcharge

Have you ever looked at your personal power bill. For me it is between $10 and $15 per month.

I think it is outrageous that we had to pay to put the dams up and now we have to pay to have them torn down. Disgusting.

J C Boyle Dan Removal Surcharge
Copco Iron Gate Dams Removal Surcharge

You can thank the evironmentalist and Indian tribes for these two. California has it worse. You are paying so the salmon can go back up river but the US government won't do anything about the large trawlers just sitting out on the ocean getting ready to scoop up the salmon heading back up the river. The other issue is they won't put any restrictions on gill netting either for fear of offending the tribes. The environmental clean-up for removal of these dams will be unbelieveable because of the sediment behind them.

Low Income Assistance charge
You paying someone elses electrical bill because they are too lazy to get a job.

Energy Conservation charge
When someone gets an energy credit, you pay for it, dummy!

Public Purpose charge
Tax baby, just a tax!
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#11
Well I certainly don't feel in a position to defend any of this and Chuck White is close to the truth here.
We are very, very lucky because our Kilowatt cost are extremely low. So low I would suggest that the things that are mandated require more revenue than is collected. BTW environmentalist do not make law, they can only ask that the law be followed when it is not or ask for an interpretation of the existing law.

One must ask how did we get such cheap power? Could we do that today in this political climate?
Why is the per kilowatt rate so low? Regulations.
What would you be paying if the republicans got their way in Oregon as they tried to do.
PG&E in Kali is a case study.

My point really is that looking at the larger picture, fees included, power in the N.W is remarkably cheap.
But for how long? Nor I do not believe the free markets can or could produce a better rate. Is this an example of your gov't doing good things?
And that cheap rate was directed at factories as you describe. Aluminum producers came up here for this very reason. (more of public works for the private sector?)
let the war begin.

Btw if the owner of the factory you describe is getting wealthy he can thank the public for that power from Bonneville.
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#12
(09-24-2011, 05:47 PM)Willie Krash Wrote: Well I certainly don't feel in a position to defend any of this and Chuck White is close to the truth here.
We are very, very lucky because our Kilowatt cost are extremely low. So low I would suggest that the things that are mandated require more revenue than is collected. BTW environmentalist do not make law, they can only ask that the law be followed when it is not or ask for an interpretation of the existing law.

One must ask how did we get such cheap power? Could we do that today in this political climate?
Why is the per kilowatt rate so low? Regulations.
What would you be paying if the republicans got their way in Oregon as they tried to do.
PG&E in Kali is a case study.

My point really is that looking at the larger picture, fees included, power in the N.W is remarkably cheap.
But for how long? Nor I do not believe the free markets can or could produce a better rate. Is this an example of your gov't doing good things?
And that cheap rate was directed at factories as you describe. Aluminum producers came up here for this very reason. (more of public works for the private sector?)
let the war begin.

Btw if the owner of the factory you describe is getting wealthy he can thank the public for that power from Bonneville.

The owner is not getting wealthy although not poor either. The market is cyclical and the ecomonic downturn has closed many other plants throughout the US. In 2008 and 2009 I think they made less than 1/2 million and since then has broken even or lost 1/2 million mostly because we are stripped down to bare bones. They will continue to hold on as long as possible.

The cost of the power is not the issue for me. It is all recouped in the price of the product. It is more an issue of my personal bill and all these charges to tear down dams. IMO dams are a green way to generate power yet instead of coming up with reasonable solutions to help the salmon survive, we just tear the whole thing down.
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#13
I'll take hydro over nukes or coal any day. My broader point is that the power is very, very cheap and was done by gov't for the benefit (in a large part) of business and growth. When we want our America back this is part of it but would we go for it today? The TVA?
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#14
Dams are a handy way to make a big salmon chowder. Cheney holds the record.
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#15
(09-26-2011, 08:48 AM)illcommandante Wrote: Dams are a handy way to make a big salmon chowder. Cheney holds the record.

You would think, the Salmon would have evolved by now, to get around the dams.
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