Guns on campus? Heck yes.
#41
No guns, How about dynamite on campus?
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#42
Some say the only reason hydrogen isn't being used in our cars more is, once people realized that everyone had their own bomb making apparatus at hand, revolution would be instantainious. I have to wonder the same thing myself.
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#43
(09-30-2011, 12:51 PM)PonderThis Wrote: Show me some facts, TV. I'm tired of looking things up for you. If you want to spout this total crap, show some figures. I gave you mine. Yes, there are more gun suicides than gun murders. I showed the facts for that.

Compare our violence to any country without guns. Then come back and tell me. Until then, you're just blathering bullshit.

What facts have I said that you need proof of? It's not bullshit to consider all of the variables.
IF you compare violence in some country where guns are banned to the USA the OF COURSE there is more here.
But I find it hard to imagine that you can't see the points I'm making. You are the one who keeps throwing out the same old stat about guns in the home and your likely hood of being killed by one.

I have simply shown that this stat does not mean as much as you would like it to and you can't seem to handle that simple truth.



If you SERIOUSLY want to consider how "safe" you are in this country and you don't look at all the facts then you are an idiot.
AGAIN, what facts do you need proof of?

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#44
I want to see any fact that shows we're safer here with our high gun ownership rate compared with any other country that prohibits or severely restricts civilian ownership of guns.

I'm not even saying guns are bad, or I'm against gun ownership. I just want you to show me one speck of evidence that we're statistically better off as a country with our high level of gun ownership versus any other modern country with gun restrictions. That's all. Got any?

I think one person on another thread pointed out Rhwanda. I'm speculating you'll have to go to similar extremes to find anything even close to this.
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#45
Quote:'PonderThis' pid='144372' dateline='1317414154']
I want to see any fact that shows we're safer here with our high gun ownership rate compared with any other country that prohibits or severely restricts civilian ownership of guns.


Quote:I'm not even saying guns are bad, or I'm against gun ownership. I just want you to show me one speck of evidence that we're statistically better off as a country with our high level of gun ownership versus any other modern country with gun restrictions. That's all. Got any?



I just got through saying that OF COURSE there are more gun deaths here than in countries with no guns. I have NEVER said otherwise.
I simply pointed out the many things that need to be considered especially when you compare a country like ours to other countries.

I think you are all over the place and playing bait and switch.

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#46
(09-30-2011, 12:59 PM)PonderThis Wrote: Some say the only reason hydrogen isn't being used in our cars more is, once people realized that everyone had their own bomb making apparatus at hand, revolution would be instantainious. I have to wonder the same thing myself.

Right so all these people who want to blow things up and start a revolution don't know what propane is? acetylene? Gasoline? methane?
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#47
(09-30-2011, 01:39 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(09-30-2011, 12:59 PM)PonderThis Wrote: Some say the only reason hydrogen isn't being used in our cars more is, once people realized that everyone had their own bomb making apparatus at hand, revolution would be instantainious. I have to wonder the same thing myself.

Right so all these people who want to blow things up and start a revolution don't know what propane is? acetylene? Gasoline? methane?

Thanks for the suggestions. Smiling
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#48
(09-30-2011, 01:36 PM)tvguy Wrote: I just got through saying that OF COURSE there are more gun deaths here than in countries with no guns. I have NEVER said otherwise.

Good. That's an excellent starting point. Even you admit we are less safe as a nation, statistically speaking, because of our high gun ownership rate, and every incremental step towards there being fewer guns in the hands of the citizenry results in incremental improvements in public safety. We can go someplace with that.
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#49
(09-30-2011, 01:42 PM)PonderThis Wrote:
(09-30-2011, 01:36 PM)tvguy Wrote: I just got through saying that OF COURSE there are more gun deaths here than in countries with no guns. I have NEVER said otherwise.

Good. That's an excellent starting point. Even you admit we are less safe as a nation, statistically speaking, because of our high gun ownership rate, and every incremental step towards there being fewer guns in the hands of the citizenry results in incremental improvements in public safety. We can go someplace with that.

Sorry but I'm not so quick to tie it all together in such a nice package as you are.You are trying to make a complex problem a simple one. Just ban guns and we will be safer.
My points that I have been trying to make is that your stats about what is mostly people committing suicide. And Stats about murders by gun which for the most part are big city and gang related and not relative to other countries that we are compared to.

To draw a conclusion that we would all be SIGNIFICANTLY safer just Like Australia or other countries are safer with gun bans is foolish. To make that conclusion you have to have a country comparable to this country.
There is not one that I know of.


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#50
We're so totally unique as a people that statistics just don't apply to us like they do to all the rest of the world. Smiling

I think I've read our violence rate is something like 20 times more than comparable non gun owning countries. But I'm waiting to hear your evidence before I bother going to refute it. I already know you can't, which is why you're waffling instead.
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#51
[quote][quote='PonderThis' pid='144409' dateline='1317417226']
We're so totally unique as a people that statistics just don't apply to us like they do to all the rest of the world. Smiling[/quote]

Brilliant!! you finally got it!!!

Find me another country with a population that is 13 percent black that commits HALF of that countries violent crimes.
Find me another country with as many people living in crime ridden drug infested inner cities.

Let me know when you do.




[quote]I think I've read our violence rate is something like 20 times more than comparable non gun owning countries. But I'm waiting to hear your evidence before I bother going to refute it. I already know you can't, which is why you're waffling instead.

[/quote]


What evidence do you need? are you a stuck record or what? What the hell am I waffling about?


Tell me all about this non gun owning country that we have 20 times more gun violence.
And before you do, tell me that statistic is not based on the fact that half of all our gun deaths are suicide.
Then tell me again how I'm 20 times less safe because some old dude wants to blow himself away?








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#52
"Gun-related homicide rates in the United States are twenty to thirty-five times higher than they are in countries that are economically and politically similar to it." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violenc...ted_States

sources: ^ a b c d Committee on Law and Justice (2004). "Chapter 3". Firearms and Violence: A Critical Review. National Academy of Science. ISBN 0309091241. http://www.nap.edu/books/0309091241/html/53.html.

# ^ Krug, E.G, K.E. Powell, L.L. Dahlberg (1998). "Firearm-related deaths in the United States and 35 other high- and upper-middle income countries". International Journal of Epidemiology 7 (2): 214–221. doi:10.1093/ije/27.2.214. PMID 9602401.

# ^ "The Seventh United Nations Survey on Crime Trends and the Operations of Criminal Justice Systems (1998 - 2000)". United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime. Archived from the original on 2007-11-12. http://web.archive.org/web/2007111203204...venth.html. Retrieved 2006-11-08.
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#53
(09-30-2011, 04:12 PM)PonderThis Wrote: "Gun-related homicide rates in the United States are twenty to thirty-five times higher than they are in countries that are economically and politically similar to it." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violenc...ted_States

sources: ^ a b c d Committee on Law and Justice (2004). "Chapter 3". Firearms and Violence: A Critical Review. National Academy of Science. ISBN 0309091241. http://www.nap.edu/books/0309091241/html/53.html.

# ^ Krug, E.G, K.E. Powell, L.L. Dahlberg (1998). "Firearm-related deaths in the United States and 35 other high- and upper-middle income countries". International Journal of Epidemiology 7 (2): 214–221. doi:10.1093/ije/27.2.214. PMID 9602401.

# ^ "The Seventh United Nations Survey on Crime Trends and the Operations of Criminal Justice Systems (1998 - 2000)". United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime. Archived from the original on 2007-11-12. http://web.archive.org/web/2007111203204...venth.html. Retrieved 2006-11-08.

What the hell does that prove? I asked you to find a country that was comparable to ours. I don't question and never did question that some counties with gun bans have far less gun deaths.
Posting a bunch of links to prove a point I agree with?

from your first source... in the United States. Gun-related violence is most common in poor urban areas and in conjunction with gang violence, often involving juveniles or young adults

OK fine so what country are you comparing the USA to that has as many poor urban areas or gangs as we do?




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#54
Did you look at the links?

From the first one: http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_i...9960055001
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#55
(09-30-2011, 04:40 PM)PonderThis Wrote: Did you look at the links?

From the first one: http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_i...9960055001

Are you serious? WTF am I supposed to see that's news?
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#56
You asked what countries our gun violence was being compared with, where the gun homicides were 20 - 35 times fewer than in the U.S. I gave you a link to the chart. It has all 30+ countries listed, and the amount of gun violence in each. Are you so lazy you can't even be bothered to look at that?

That's why I tell you, you can't be bothered with the facts even when they're presented right beneath your stupid nose, that's why.
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#57
(09-30-2011, 04:59 PM)PonderThis Wrote: You asked what countries our gun violence was being compared with, where the gun homicides were 20 - 35 times fewer than in the U.S. I gave you a link to the chart. It has all 30+ countries listed, and the amount of gun violence in each. Are you so lazy you can't even be bothered to look at that?

That's why I tell you, you can't be bothered with the facts even when they're presented right beneath your stupid nose, that's why.

NO I asked you to tell about this country not give me some list that I have seen 100 times. I want you to tell me about a country that is comparable to ours. I think it's VERY clear what I meant. Now you act as if I didn't believe it?
I'm pretty sure way back there I already said OF COURSE it's true. The OBVIOUS point I can't seem to get through to you is that you can't compare any country on the planet that has banned guns to us.
I think you are either being dishonest or you are just too dense to understand what I'm saying.
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#58
I give up. You're impossibly hopeless. Enjoy your redneck life.
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#59
(09-30-2011, 05:25 PM)PonderThis Wrote: I give up. You're impossibly hopeless. Enjoy your redneck life.

Nice, Avoid every single question or point I made and throw out a strawman argument and now you just call names.

I wonder if anyone else ,except your Mother (Crone) could see the preceding posts and not see your glaring evasiveness.

And since YOU want to go there......Enjoy your dope induced fairytale non reality based hippie life where you are superior to everyone else.
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#60
I want to hear from virtually anyone else besides you that has looked at the above links and facts. OK, you or Larry either one. I know you have the comprehension of a 3 year old, and I want to hear from somebody with adult comprehension skills instead.
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