Oregon's Governor Kitzhaber will allow no more executions

[tealeaf]

I am in no way trying to make this discussion about, specifically, abortion. My question was not whether our gov supports abortion or not either.

Can y'all read?
I said it was a hypothetical.

If the gov can decide, on his own, to act against the will of the people, in this instance, why not in this other area?
My question has nothing to do at all, with a womans right to choose. It was in regards to the governors acting AGAINST THE LEGAL WILL OF THE PEOPLE OF THIS STATE. Going against current laws, because he feels like it.
And what would you do about it ( how would you react?), if the hypothetical situation was about the abortion laws?. Maybe thats a better way to say it. Lets say it's not our current gov. but the next one, whomever that might be.

[PonderThis]

The Supreme Court affirmed a womans right to abortion in Roe vs. Wade. This entire issue of abortion is out of Kitzhabers hands, so your hypothetical example you like so much doesn't fly.

However, capital punishment is a states rights issue. Maybe you'll come up with something else that's a states right issue for a comparison and it would make a better hypothetical example.

[tealeaf]

I give up.
I understand you not being able to understand this question.
It's all good.
I think I know how most of y'all might respond.
Have a great Sunday, peeps.

[PonderThis]

It's quite arrogant telling us our reading comprehension lacks but yours somehow excels by comparison, actually. It's your understanding that appears lacking to me in that you feel abortion somehow has anything to do with capital punishment of murderers. I'm waiting for you to start quoting out of a 3000 year old book next so I can poke holes all through that piece of tripe.

[tealeaf]

you're funny. I never said that.


AND...the Bible has absolutely nothing at all to do with what I have been talking about.
Why would you think so?

[PonderThis]

It was preemptive.

[tvguy]

I skimmed through this thread trying to skip the abortion talk. As far as capital punishment there is something good about it that I think gets overlooked.
I watched a TV show called 48 hours about a man who murdered 4 people.

Before the trial he refused to admit guilt. The prosecutors offered a plea deal to second degree murder IF he would disclose the location of the bodies.
He took the deal and consequently showed where he buried the bodies. 3 out of four anyway. He could not find one.
At any rate the relief of these victims families to get their loved ones bodies was immeasurable.
This killer was sentenced to either 40 or 70 years, I forget. Either way he will die in prison.
With out a death penalty why would this guy have took a plea? With out a death penalty these families would never have a grave to visit.

I understand that it is said that it costs more to execute a prisoner compared to life in prison because of the time and money spent on appeals. I wonder if cases like this are factored in where a long and expensive trial is avoided?

What about criminals who have the choice of murdering a witness? If they have already committed crimes that will equal a life behind bars what is to stop them from killing anyone unless the state has the death penalty?

[PonderThis]

Why didn't they just waterboard him instead?

[tvguy]

Why didn't they just waterboard him instead?

You just lectured Tealeaf for bringing abortion in to this thread and 2 seconds later you bring up torture.?

troll

[PonderThis]

They could have waterboarded him to get the truth out of him versus threatening him with execution.

And, for the poster that still has the most number of posts of anybody, with the biggest history of scoffing at others, for you to call me a troll in big letters shows me what a controlling prick you really are.

[illcommandante]

Bradley Manning has given us all the truth. And, The Pubs are suggesting we fry him. While Obama would be happy just to stick him in solitary forever.

[Willie Krash]

I think the governor should be given some latitude here. He did not say he would pardon or commute his death sentence.
Putting some one to death is on his shoulders, he is just saying he will not do it during his term. A death sentence is not an absolute as some are pardoned, some are commuted to life in prison without parole. All against the will of the people.
T.L if you were governor and you knew someone was sentenced to death and even with a trial you felt the evidence was shaky, would you agree that as I demand his death as it is the will of the people; what would you say? Hang 'em? Can a governor give a stay of execution? Time being the variable.
Hope this helps.
“Criminals do not die by the hands of the law. They die by the hands of other men.”
? George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

[chuck white]

Where would Christianity be today, if Kitzhaber was Pontius Pilatus?

[tealeaf]

if the evidence is shakey, then yes, everythng should be reviewed. That is not the case here, as far as my understanding goes. That is also one of the reasons that they have attorneys.

IMO, if a potential governor knows he will not carry out legal actions, that the people have approved, because HE feels that they are wrong, he has no reason to be running for office in the first place.
OR, he should make his position plain before, or while, running, so the PEOPLE can decide if they truly want someone that will not carry out our laws.

Yes a gov can give a stay. No stay was requested here.

And no one here, still, has answered the question that was asked. IMO.
And that's all right. I really do understand.

I hope y'all have a great Tuesday.

[BeerMe]

"It was a huge blow to everybody," said Kathy Pratt, who lost her mother, Mary Archer, 30 years ago.

Archer was murdered by Gary Haugen, then the ex-boyfriend of Pratt's sister.

"He blamed my mother for the breakup," said Pratt.

Pratt says Haugen broke into her mother's home and violently attacked her.

"My mother was beaten and bludgeoned by him, then raped and sodomized," said Pratt. "She was eventually beaten to death by hammer after several utensils from around the home had been used."

The murder sent Haugen to prison, where he was serving a life sentence with the possibility of parole, when he was then convicted and sentenced to death for killing fellow inmate, David Polin.

Haugen killed two people. Haugen has waived his appeals. He did not appeal for the Gov to stop the execution.

The voters of Oregon VOTED to start capital punishment again.

Kitzhaber knows better than us piss ant voters. He doesn't like capital punishment, so he isn't gonna let it happen regardless of the will of the people or the facts of the case. There is no disputing either murder that Haugen has committed. There is no chance an innocent man is being put to death. Kitzhaber is a self righteous asshole.

[tvguy]

They could have waterboarded him to get the truth out of him versus threatening him with execution.

And, for the poster that still has the most number of posts of anybody, with the biggest history of scoffing at others, for you to call me a troll in big letters shows me what a controlling prick you really are.

Scoff Still trying to play the,, I post too much card?? Is that all you got.You blab with the women cuz U R 1 2 and post more than me every day so what's a total post count really mean?

You made an ignorant comment about water boarding after I spent time typing my true feelings and made valid points on the issue. Your comment was "scoffing" ...hypocrite

[Willie Krash]

Sorry TL, I didn't think you were speakin of a case specific. I kind of thought you were asking a general question. It sure seemed that way. if you are talking about this case and this case only perhaps the governor should acquiesce to the man's wishes or grant a stay.
It's too bad but we do know that people (plural) have died that were innocent. We also know kids have been executed.
Oregon is a peculiar state. He is allowed to go against the will of the people..! Interestingly if you look up Oregon ethics commission and look at Oregon law there is no ethic's violation I'm aware of that exist if money isn't involved, the exception may be violation of the law and even at that it is a difficult proposition. Even ORS 244 Gov't standards and practice law are financially related. If anyone knows more I'd like to know as well.

Now I'm no lawyer but the overall point is that the legislature feels* that if you don't like what elected persons do it is your obligation to recall them. They have free will.

*IMHO

[Simon Peter]

Judge rules inmate Gary Haugen, seeking execution, has right to reject governor's reprieve

Death row inmate Gary Haugen won a legal battle Friday against Gov. John Kitzhaber when a judge ruled he could reject the governor's reprieve of his execution and move forward in his efforts to die by lethal injection.

The opinion by Senior Judge Timothy P. Alexander is expected to initiate new adversarial proceedings between the prisoner who volunteered to die and the governor who had a change of heart about capital punishment.

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northw...augen.html

[orygunluvr]

This is an issue I am sure will ignite the leftists in unison to stand up for this guy and his freedom of choice. Right?

[PonderThis]

I'm OK if the guy wants to die. I don't get the excitement out of death you guys do though.