Oregon will Raise the Minimum Wage Janurary 1st
#1
Oregon will raise the minimum wage to $8.80 per hour on Janurary 1st. I know every little bit helps. So I am glad to see that many Oregonians will be able to make a little more money starting this coming year. I don't know if it will mean people will be able to buy a little more since prices seem to be going up too. Anyway, it is still a good thing IMO. Now lets hear how businesses will suffer blah, blah, blah.

Oops, did I just violate the cease fire agreement? Confused Laughing

Also, I was going to post this in the news section, but since almost everything is controversial on this forum, I decided to put it here in the Off Topic section. BTW, I like this new section.
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#2
(12-25-2011, 12:25 PM)cletus1 Wrote: Oregon will raise the minimum wage to $8.80 per hour on Janurary 1st. I know every little bit helps. So I am glad to see that many Oregonians will be able to make a little more money starting this coming year. I don't know if it will mean people will be able to buy a little more since prices seem to be going up too. Anyway, it is still a good thing IMO. Now lets hear how businesses will suffer blah, blah, blah.

Oops, did I just violate the cease fire agreement? Confused Laughing

Also, I was going to post this in the news section, but since almost everything is controversial on this forum, I decided to put it here in the Off Topic section. BTW, I like this new section.

UH......is that a nickel raise? what was the minimum wage?

Some businesses will raise the price of a plate of hamburger with pie, and the old retired people from California will get out their penny cutter when they leave the tip. Walmart will raise their prices to cover it and people will spend their disposable income in China.

However, any business that can, contracts out their work so that they don't have employees. Right now there is a push on to make your contract workers employees and sign up with the Federal Government...contract workers are nothing more than other self-employed business people who take home all their money in a 1099 and decide once a year what they can pay in taxes. My last employer was putting $50,000 in trust with the IRS every quarter, when he finally closed down, he told me 'never have employees'. In about 4 months, if we keep growing our business, we can send him and his wife some of our contract work...should have followed his own advice.
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#3
I never signed any cease fire.
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#4
(12-25-2011, 12:44 PM)DUNNO Wrote:
(12-25-2011, 12:25 PM)cletus1 Wrote: Oregon will raise the minimum wage to $8.80 per hour on Janurary 1st. I know every little bit helps. So I am glad to see that many Oregonians will be able to make a little more money starting this coming year. I don't know if it will mean people will be able to buy a little more since prices seem to be going up too. Anyway, it is still a good thing IMO. Now lets hear how businesses will suffer blah, blah, blah.

Oops, did I just violate the cease fire agreement? Confused Laughing

Also, I was going to post this in the news section, but since almost everything is controversial on this forum, I decided to put it here in the Off Topic section. BTW, I like this new section.

UH......is that a nickel raise? what was the minimum wage?

Some businesses will raise the price of a plate of hamburger with pie, and the old retired people from California will get out their penny cutter when they leave the tip. Walmart will raise their prices to cover it and people will spend their disposable income in China.

However, any business that can, contracts out their work so that they don't have employees. Right now there is a push on to make your contract workers employees and sign up with the Federal Government...contract workers are nothing more than other self-employed business people who take home all their money in a 1099 and decide once a year what they can pay in taxes. My last employer was putting $50,000 in trust with the IRS every quarter, when he finally closed down, he told me 'never have employees'. In about 4 months, if we keep growing our business, we can send him and his wife some of our contract work...should have followed his own advice.

The minimum wage is $8.50 per hour so the increase is a 30 cent raise. I do not know how much of a help it will be, but it sure cant hurt.
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#5
(12-25-2011, 01:46 PM)cletus1 Wrote:
(12-25-2011, 12:44 PM)DUNNO Wrote:
(12-25-2011, 12:25 PM)cletus1 Wrote: Oregon will raise the minimum wage to $8.80 per hour on Janurary 1st. I know every little bit helps. So I am glad to see that many Oregonians will be able to make a little more money starting this coming year. I don't know if it will mean people will be able to buy a little more since prices seem to be going up too. Anyway, it is still a good thing IMO. Now lets hear how businesses will suffer blah, blah, blah.

Oops, did I just violate the cease fire agreement? Confused Laughing

Also, I was going to post this in the news section, but since almost everything is controversial on this forum, I decided to put it here in the Off Topic section. BTW, I like this new section.

UH......is that a nickel raise? what was the minimum wage?

Some businesses will raise the price of a plate of hamburger with pie, and the old retired people from California will get out their penny cutter when they leave the tip. Walmart will raise their prices to cover it and people will spend their disposable income in China.

However, any business that can, contracts out their work so that they don't have employees. Right now there is a push on to make your contract workers employees and sign up with the Federal Government...contract workers are nothing more than other self-employed business people who take home all their money in a 1099 and decide once a year what they can pay in taxes. My last employer was putting $50,000 in trust with the IRS every quarter, when he finally closed down, he told me 'never have employees'. In about 4 months, if we keep growing our business, we can send him and his wife some of our contract work...should have followed his own advice.

The minimum wage is $8.50 per hour so the increase is a 30 cent raise. I do not know how much of a help it will be, but it sure cant hurt.
Support local business..all I can say. The cost of living is eating people alive right now. They might be working, but their dollars can't buy what they were used to them buying.
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#6
Inflation 101
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#7
(12-25-2011, 01:46 PM)cletus1 Wrote: The minimum wage is $8.50 per hour so the increase is a 30 cent raise. I do not know how much of a help it will be, but it sure cant hurt.

If it can't hurt, why not make it $20?
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#8
(12-25-2011, 07:16 PM)Larry Wrote:
(12-25-2011, 01:46 PM)cletus1 Wrote: The minimum wage is $8.50 per hour so the increase is a 30 cent raise. I do not know how much of a help it will be, but it sure cant hurt.

If it can't hurt, why not make it $20?

1st, a note to H/C above. An even casual look at recent trends will prove how faulty your comment is.

Larry, good idea. Let's make it twenty. Except we all know that's ludicrous and you are just using irony to prove a point. The problem is, you have not proven a point. Wages, in a perfect world would be market driven. It's not a perfect world and those who hire workers with low skills would pay a little as possible if we did not have government regulation.
We all know it's a competitive world, but if a business can't pay this minimum wage it only proves the market will not tolerate a business with such low margins. The supply/demand feature of the system "should" then allow more profitable enterprises that could in fact pay "decent" wages, to prevail in the market.

Folks who work for low wages have little (if any) bargaining power. Capital does represent power. There are fools who start business with lack of adequate capital, then cry they can't pay a decent wage. A closer look indicates the problem is not a minimum wage too high, but a business model (or simple greed) unable to compete in capital markets.

So H/C, Capitalism 101.

Larry, the investment class will do fine without your sympathy or help. And those investors not prepared to compete are doomed to fail even while paying lousy wages.

Time we stop defending the investors. They face problems that are much more dire that the threat of a minimum wage thought to be high. Let them solve their problems, and wages might return to "livable" standards. That means that in these trying times they are going to have to risk a bit more and settle for just a bit less profit. We don't want to force them to dig into the principle (God forbid) but they should be courageous enough to invest the gain on that principle.

So what we all want are venture capitalists who can fund a company with a adequate cash flow to make it possible to prosper, given good administration.
That's the company I want to work for. They will be prepared to pay a "market driven wage", and I will give them my skills, my best days work, my loyalty, and good will. I hope they make billions. But I realize I don't share in that: I only want the continued good return on my skills and labor.

It's time we allow our capitalist system to work past the greed of the few and encourage investment to the broader society. Called the "social contract" by folks who study this kind of stuff. (Not me...I only read what others study).

Let's all do what we can to make it work, hope for the best, and prove our attention to citizenship by protecting the society as a whole, not just those blessed by circumstance.

Of course the increase in the minimum wage is fair. Barely.

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#9
(12-25-2011, 09:06 PM)Wonky Wrote: Larry, good idea. Let's make it twenty. Except we all know that's ludicrous and you are just using irony to prove a point. The problem is, you have not proven a point. Wages, in a perfect world would be market driven. It's not a perfect world and those who hire workers with low skills would pay a little as possible if we did not have government regulation.

It is this very attitude that helped put us in this financial mess. Yes wages should be market driven.. An employer will hire the qualified worker for the least amount of money that the worker will take.. That's what built this nation.. As the worker builds skills he may become more valuable, and one measurement of that value could be higher wages or benefits.

Quote:We all know it's a competitive world, but if a business can't pay this minimum wage it only proves the market will not tolerate a business with such low margins. The supply/demand feature of the system "should" then allow more profitable enterprises that could in fact pay "decent" wages, to prevail in the market.


Nothing to do with what the market will tolerate.. Everything to do with the govt. regulating the companies viability. One way of becoming more profitable, is to control spending, i.e. wages.

Quote:Folks who work for low wages have little (if any) bargaining power. Capital does represent power. There are fools who start business with lack of adequate capital, then cry they can't pay a decent wage. A closer look indicates the problem is not a minimum wage too high, but a business model (or simple greed) unable to compete in capital markets.


Then Larry's $20 an hour is back on the table.
The business model of any Asian country, includes exceedingly low wages, and they have become so successful that we can't compete with them. No, I don't advocate that here, but we can no longer live with a union mentality. We are already at a point, (unemployment ins. running out) where unemployed people are willing to work for less.. And that is the future, for at least the short term.

Quote:Time we stop defending the investors. They face problems that are much more dire that the threat of a minimum wage thought to be high. Let them solve their problems, and wages might return to "livable" standards. That means that in these trying times they are going to have to risk a bit more and settle for just a bit less profit. We don't want to force them to dig into the principle (God forbid) but they should be courageous enough to invest the gain on that principle.


Every wealthy person I know, is investing more in enterprises outside this country's borders. They are less and less comfortable functioning under the rules and regulations in place and looming in this country, and are protecting themselves from this burgeoning (war on wealth) mood.

Quote:So what we all want are venture capitalists who can fund a company with a adequate cash flow to make it possible to prosper, given good administration.


That's been the American dream for 2 centuries.

Quote:That's the company I want to work for. They will be prepared to pay a "market driven wage", and I will give them my skills, my best days work, my loyalty, and good will. I hope they make billions. But I realize I don't share in that: I only want the continued good return on my skills and labor.


Sure but what if for the first year they can't pay minimum wages? Under your system, they never will be able to start up.

Quote:It's time we allow our capitalist system to work past the greed of the few and encourage investment to the broader society. Called the "social contract" by folks who study this kind of stuff. (Not me...I only read what others study).

Yeah, kinda spooks you to say it huh.. socialism 101

Quote:Let's all do what we can to make it work, hope for the best, and prove our attention to citizenship by protecting the society as a whole, not just those blessed by circumstance.
Of course the increase in the minimum wage is fair. Barely.

Yes, socialism is in your blood.. It's hard to think outside that box.

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#10
Price of gas to get to work exceeded the increase in wages.
If the cost of your hamburger goes up, don't blame the worker.
Blame the cost of two wars on the value of our money.
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#11
(12-25-2011, 09:06 PM)Wonky Wrote: Of course the increase in the minimum wage is fair. Barely.

Then tell me what $ amount IS fair. You say the current one is "barely". You say my $20 is flippant. So pick a number. What is fair, to you, as a minimum wage?
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#12
(12-26-2011, 11:07 AM)Larry Wrote:
(12-25-2011, 09:06 PM)Wonky Wrote: Of course the increase in the minimum wage is fair. Barely.

Then tell me what $ amount IS fair. You say the current one is "barely". You say my $20 is flippant. So pick a number. What is fair, to you, as a minimum wage?

If the minimum wage had kept up with inflation, it would now be about $25.00 an hour.

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#13
Who will work for $5 an hour? $5, 5, 5, how about $4. Do I hear $4? $4, 4, 4 ...
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#14

Quote: )Wonky Wrote: Larry, good idea. Let's make it twenty. Except we all know that's ludicrous and you are just using irony to prove a point. The problem is, you have not proven a point. Wages, in a perfect world would be market driven. It's not a perfect world and those who hire workers with low skills would pay a little as possible if we did not have government regulation.

Quote:hillclimber It is this very attitude that helped put us in this financial mess.

I worked for $1.65 an hour in 1967. That was the minimum wage. We had minimum wage laws and increases before that and of course after that all the way until now.
And suddenly Hillclimber decides it helped put us in a financial mess?:wacko:

BAFREAKINGLONEY!
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#15
(12-26-2011, 12:14 AM)hillclimber Wrote:
(12-25-2011, 09:06 PM)Wonky Wrote: Larry, good idea. Let's make it twenty. Except we all know that's ludicrous and you are just using irony to prove a point. The problem is, you have not proven a point. Wages, in a perfect world would be market driven. It's not a perfect world and those who hire workers with low skills would pay a little as possible if we did not have government regulation.

It is this very attitude that helped put us in this financial mess. Yes wages should be market driven.. An employer will hire the qualified worker for the least amount of money that the worker will take.. That's what built this nation.. As the worker builds skills he may become more valuable, and one measurement of that value could be higher wages or benefits.

Quote:We all know it's a competitive world, but if a business can't pay this minimum wage it only proves the market will not tolerate a business with such low margins. The supply/demand feature of the system "should" then allow more profitable enterprises that could in fact pay "decent" wages, to prevail in the market.


Nothing to do with what the market will tolerate.. Everything to do with the govt. regulating the companies viability. One way of becoming more profitable, is to control spending, i.e. wages.

Quote:Folks who work for low wages have little (if any) bargaining power. Capital does represent power. There are fools who start business with lack of adequate capital, then cry they can't pay a decent wage. A closer look indicates the problem is not a minimum wage too high, but a business model (or simple greed) unable to compete in capital markets.


Then Larry's $20 an hour is back on the table.
The business model of any Asian country, includes exceedingly low wages, and they have become so successful that we can't compete with them. No, I don't advocate that here, but we can no longer live with a union mentality. We are already at a point, (unemployment ins. running out) where unemployed people are willing to work for less.. And that is the future, for at least the short term.

Quote:Time we stop defending the investors. They face problems that are much more dire that the threat of a minimum wage thought to be high. Let them solve their problems, and wages might return to "livable" standards. That means that in these trying times they are going to have to risk a bit more and settle for just a bit less profit. We don't want to force them to dig into the principle (God forbid) but they should be courageous enough to invest the gain on that principle.


Every wealthy person I know, is investing more in enterprises outside this country's borders. They are less and less comfortable functioning under the rules and regulations in place and looming in this country, and are protecting themselves from this burgeoning (war on wealth) mood.

Quote:So what we all want are venture capitalists who can fund a company with a adequate cash flow to make it possible to prosper, given good administration.


That's been the American dream for 2 centuries.

Quote:That's the company I want to work for. They will be prepared to pay a "market driven wage", and I will give them my skills, my best days work, my loyalty, and good will. I hope they make billions. But I realize I don't share in that: I only want the continued good return on my skills and labor.


Sure but what if for the first year they can't pay minimum wages? Under your system, they never will be able to start up.

Quote:It's time we allow our capitalist system to work past the greed of the few and encourage investment to the broader society. Called the "social contract" by folks who study this kind of stuff. (Not me...I only read what others study).

Yeah, kinda spooks you to say it huh.. socialism 101

Quote:Let's all do what we can to make it work, hope for the best, and prove our attention to citizenship by protecting the society as a whole, not just those blessed by circumstance.
Of course the increase in the minimum wage is fair. Barely.

Yes, socialism is in your blood.. It's hard to think outside that box.

I think that's about going to do it for me.
I like argument. It brings us to a point of general agreement if those involved are sincere.
"Socialism in my blood"?
Hard to think outside the box?

It's my feeling you seldom argue or discuss Hillclimber, you regurgitate your long held opinions over and over hoping to make them stick to the wall.
There is a definition about doing things a thousand times and getting faulty results. I don't fault your political stance, but I do tire of your repeating time after time, the slogans of the leaders rather than your own reasons for your ideals.

Still, I wish you a Happy New Year, hoping you can find the words to finally correct my injured mind and set me straight. (It will take more than slogans)
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#16
(12-26-2011, 12:03 PM)tvguy Wrote: And suddenly Hillclimber decides it helped put us in a financial mess?:wacko:

BAFREAKINGLONEY!
BAFREAKINGLONEY! Perhaps you mean Bah-freaking-loony

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#17
(12-26-2011, 07:03 PM)cletus1 Wrote:
(12-26-2011, 12:03 PM)tvguy Wrote: And suddenly Hillclimber decides it helped put us in a financial mess?:wacko:

BAFREAKINGLONEY!
BAFREAKINGLONEY! Perhaps you mean Bah-freaking-loony

No actually I meant BAFREAKINGLONEY! .. as in it's fucking baloneyLaughing
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#18
I can see $8.50 for kids under 18 flipping burgers and living with their parents...otherwise, I think $10 per hour should be bare minimum. People have to pay rent, utilities and feed themselves; without working 80 or 90 hours a week to do so.
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#19
(12-26-2011, 11:19 AM)Leonard Wrote:
(12-26-2011, 11:07 AM)Larry Wrote:
(12-25-2011, 09:06 PM)Wonky Wrote: Of course the increase in the minimum wage is fair. Barely.

Then tell me what $ amount IS fair. You say the current one is "barely". You say my $20 is flippant. So pick a number. What is fair, to you, as a minimum wage?

If the minimum wage had kept up with inflation, it would now be about $25.00 an hour.

And where would inflation be if McDonalds paid $25 an hour?
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#20
(12-26-2011, 12:03 PM)tvguy Wrote:
Quote: )Wonky Wrote: Larry, good idea. Let's make it twenty. Except we all know that's ludicrous and you are just using irony to prove a point. The problem is, you have not proven a point. Wages, in a perfect world would be market driven. It's not a perfect world and those who hire workers with low skills would pay a little as possible if we did not have government regulation.

Quote:hillclimber It is this very attitude that helped put us in this financial mess.

I worked for $1.65 an hour in 1967. That was the minimum wage. We had minimum wage laws and increases before that and of course after that all the way until now.
And suddenly Hillclimber decides it helped put us in a financial mess?:wacko:

BAFREAKINGLONEY!
Governmental interference in the labor market certainly does have a harmful influence, and arbitrarily fixing wages contributes to unsound conditions.
That's when the local mills were paying about $2.25 an hour, and a Sheet Metal apprentice made $4.19 an hour, and a plumber earned $8.50 hour..
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