'"We have lost a brother.

[illcommandante]

We will grieve this loss, he will be sorely missed," said Weber County Sheriff Terry Thompson."' They lose a brother, and we get the bill. Some fat breeder is probably suffering a windfall here. What's this one gonna cost us? More, than he did as a functional "NARC"? On the weight of a GED acquired under suspicious circumstances. The company fink has found cradle to grave security.

[BeerMe]

WTF are you talking about?

[BeerMe]

OK, illcommandante is referring to the shootings in Utah.

(CNN) -- Utah law enforcement officers mourned one of their own Thursday after a shooting left one officer dead and five others wounded.

The Wednesday night incident took place when they were attempting to serve a search warrant.

The six officers and the suspect were rushed to hospitals, Ogden Assistant Police Chief Marcy Korgenski said.

Officer Jared Francom died from his wounds, Ogden police said early Thursday.

"Agent Francom has served the citizens of Ogden city with honor for seven years," authorities said in a statement.

Francom is survived by his wife and two young children, the statement said.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/05/justice/ut...index.html

this part doesn't make sense to me:

Stewart has a "limited criminal history," Tarwater said. He did not have specifics but said he believed Stewart's record was mostly misdemeanors.

Asked about reports that as many as 12 officers were sent to the home, strike force commander Lt. Darin Parke told reporters that number is not unusual. There was "not really a great deal that set this investigation apart ... other than the outcome," he said.

why not just wait for him outside, undercover like? If he wasn't a violent offender why put the officer's lives at risk with forcible entry? hmmmm

[tvguy]

OK, illcommandante is referring to the shootings in Utah.

(CNN) -- Utah law enforcement officers mourned one of their own Thursday after a shooting left one officer dead and five others wounded.

The Wednesday night incident took place when they were attempting to serve a search warrant.

The six officers and the suspect were rushed to hospitals, Ogden Assistant Police Chief Marcy Korgenski said.

Officer Jared Francom died from his wounds, Ogden police said early Thursday.

"Agent Francom has served the citizens of Ogden city with honor for seven years," authorities said in a statement.

Francom is survived by his wife and two young children, the statement said.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/05/justice/ut...index.html

this part doesn't make sense to me:

Stewart has a "limited criminal history," Tarwater said. He did not have specifics but said he believed Stewart's record was mostly misdemeanors.

Asked about reports that as many as 12 officers were sent to the home, strike force commander Lt. Darin Parke told reporters that number is not unusual. There was "not really a great deal that set this investigation apart ... other than the outcome," he said.

why not just wait for him outside, undercover like? If he wasn't a violent offender why put the officer's lives at risk with forcible entry? hmmmm

Maybe Because it was a raid with a search warrant with the intent to recover narcotics before someone flushed or the destroyed the evidence.

[tvguy]

WTF are you talking about?

In his admittedly sick mind every cop on the planet is crooked and has a forged GED and probably killed all his family members.

[BeerMe]

OK, illcommandante is referring to the shootings in Utah.

(CNN) -- Utah law enforcement officers mourned one of their own Thursday after a shooting left one officer dead and five others wounded.

The Wednesday night incident took place when they were attempting to serve a search warrant.

The six officers and the suspect were rushed to hospitals, Ogden Assistant Police Chief Marcy Korgenski said.

Officer Jared Francom died from his wounds, Ogden police said early Thursday.

"Agent Francom has served the citizens of Ogden city with honor for seven years," authorities said in a statement.

Francom is survived by his wife and two young children, the statement said.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/05/justice/ut...index.html

this part doesn't make sense to me:

Stewart has a "limited criminal history," Tarwater said. He did not have specifics but said he believed Stewart's record was mostly misdemeanors.

Asked about reports that as many as 12 officers were sent to the home, strike force commander Lt. Darin Parke told reporters that number is not unusual. There was "not really a great deal that set this investigation apart ... other than the outcome," he said.

why not just wait for him outside, undercover like? If he wasn't a violent offender why put the officer's lives at risk with forcible entry? hmmmm

Maybe Because it was a raid with a search warrant with the intent to recover narcotics before someone flushed or the destroyed the evidence.

I would rather have narcotics flushed down a toilet than have two kids grow up without their dad.

[tvguy]

OK, illcommandante is referring to the shootings in Utah.

(CNN) -- Utah law enforcement officers mourned one of their own Thursday after a shooting left one officer dead and five others wounded.

The Wednesday night incident took place when they were attempting to serve a search warrant.

The six officers and the suspect were rushed to hospitals, Ogden Assistant Police Chief Marcy Korgenski said.

Officer Jared Francom died from his wounds, Ogden police said early Thursday.

"Agent Francom has served the citizens of Ogden city with honor for seven years," authorities said in a statement.

Francom is survived by his wife and two young children, the statement said.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/05/justice/ut...index.html

this part doesn't make sense to me:

Stewart has a "limited criminal history," Tarwater said. He did not have specifics but said he believed Stewart's record was mostly misdemeanors.

Asked about reports that as many as 12 officers were sent to the home, strike force commander Lt. Darin Parke told reporters that number is not unusual. There was "not really a great deal that set this investigation apart ... other than the outcome," he said.

why not just wait for him outside, undercover like? If he wasn't a violent offender why put the officer's lives at risk with forcible entry? hmmmm

Maybe Because it was a raid with a search warrant with the intent to recover narcotics before someone flushed or the destroyed the evidence.

I would rather have narcotics flushed down a toilet than have two kids grow up without their dad.

Yeah same here but these cops only enforce the laws that we make. The cop was just doing his job.
I wonder if anyone has considered the restraint and professionalism that these particular cops must have used by not killing the guy who just shot them all up with an AK. Some how I doubt it.

[cletus1]

OK, illcommandante is referring to the shootings in Utah.

(CNN) -- Utah law enforcement officers mourned one of their own Thursday after a shooting left one officer dead and five others wounded.

The Wednesday night incident took place when they were attempting to serve a search warrant.

The six officers and the suspect were rushed to hospitals, Ogden Assistant Police Chief Marcy Korgenski said.

Officer Jared Francom died from his wounds, Ogden police said early Thursday.

"Agent Francom has served the citizens of Ogden city with honor for seven years," authorities said in a statement.

Francom is survived by his wife and two young children, the statement said.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/05/justice/ut...index.html

this part doesn't make sense to me:

Stewart has a "limited criminal history," Tarwater said. He did not have specifics but said he believed Stewart's record was mostly misdemeanors.

Asked about reports that as many as 12 officers were sent to the home, strike force commander Lt. Darin Parke told reporters that number is not unusual. There was "not really a great deal that set this investigation apart ... other than the outcome," he said.

why not just wait for him outside, undercover like? If he wasn't a violent offender why put the officer's lives at risk with forcible entry? hmmmm

Maybe Because it was a raid with a search warrant with the intent to recover narcotics before someone flushed or the destroyed the evidence.

I would rather have narcotics flushed down a toilet than have two kids grow up without their dad.

This has got to be one of the best posts concerning unnecessary casualties in the insane war on drugs. Here are some numbers for those that care:

Drug War Facts

The War on Drugs is a Failure.

Today, the US accounts for 5% of the worlds's poulation, but 25% of the world's prisoners. We owe that distinction to the war on drugs, which puts more people behind bars each year.

Face the facts, look at the numbers!

Conservative estimate of annual government spending on the war on Drugs: 51,000,000,000

Number of people arrested in 2009 in the US on non violent drug charges: 1,663,582

Number of people arrested for a marijuana law violation in 2009: 858,408

Number of people behind bars in 2009 in federal, state and local prisons and jails: 2,424,279 or 1 in every 99.1 adults, the highest incarceration rate in the world

Fraction of people incarcerated for a drug offence in state prisons that are black or Hispanic, although those groups sell and use drugs at similar rates to whites: 2/3 YOU HEAR THAT TVguy?

Number of states that allow medical marijuana: 16

Estimated annual revenue that California would raise if it taxed and regulated the use og marijuana: 1,4000,000,000. Colorado did it. Have any of you heard of an increase in crime or young people using more drugs because of it? Yeah, me neither.

Number of murders in Ciadad Juarez, Mexico, the epicenter of that country's drug war: 3,111, the highest murder rate of any city in the world

Number of students that have lost federal financial aid eligibility because of a drug conviction: 200,000+

Number of people in the US that died from drug overdose in 2006: 26,000+

edit: Information is from the Drug Policy Alliance. http://www.drugpolicy.org/

[tvguy]

Today, the US accounts for 5% of the worlds's poulation, but 25% of the world's prisoners. We owe that distinction to the war on drugs, which puts more people behind bars each year.

Here we go again I agree with most of what you posted but i don't know about this part. We owe that distinction to the war on drugs


We've had this debate before and we will again. You have not posted a link. Now of course I'll be called a racist as usual ( not by you Clete) but we also owe that distinction to the fact that we have a lot of crime committed by minorities.
In other words MOST of our crime comes from a minority of our population.
We Also have a very unique and very rich country where crimes are not as harshly dealt with as in other countries.
In fact many of our repeat criminals don't give a damn if they get caught or not.

For sure easing up or ending on this losing war on drugs would help but I just don't see that alone is the sole reason we have so many incarcerated.

[tvguy]

Fraction of people incarcerated for a drug offence in state prisons that are black or Hispanic, although those groups sell and use drugs at similar rates to whites: 2/3 YOU HEAR THAT TVguy?

Yeah I hear it. Of course to you that means that whitey targets blacks. And it has nothing to do with the violent crack heads in mostly black inner city Ghettos?

I say it's a little of one and a lot of the other.

Could it possibly be true that blacks simply commit more crime than whites Cletus? because that would explain the lopsided ratio right?

Why don't you forget about about drugs and tell me what percent of prisoners who committed violent crimes are black.
You WILL find out it is HALF. How do ya splain that Lucy? Are white cops and DA's targeting blacks for violent crimes and ignoring the whites like they allegedly do with drugs?

[cletus1]

Fraction of people incarcerated for a drug offence in state prisons that are black or Hispanic, although those groups sell and use drugs at similar rates to whites: 2/3 YOU HEAR THAT TVguy?

Yeah I hear it. Of course to you that means that whitey targets blacks. And it has nothing to do with the violent crack heads in mostly black inner city Ghettos?

I say it's a little of one and a lot of the other.

Could it possibly be true that blacks simply commit more crime than whites Cletus? because that would explain the lopsided ratio right?

Why don't you forget about about drugs and tell me what percent of prisoners who committed violent crimes are black.
You WILL find out it is HALF. How do ya splain that Lucy? Are white cops and DA's targeting blacks for violent crimes and ignoring the whites like they allegedly do with drugs?

I wont forget about drugs to focus on minorities because the OP is about drugs. I will acknowledge that blacks and Hispanics populate the prisons and the ghettos of this country and that poverty, lack of education and job skills all contribute to the higher rate of incarceration of these mostly inner city minorities. I don't want to have another black people are more criminally disposed than white people discussion with you. Twenty of those discussions is probably enough. The point I am making is that the war on drugs is a waste, every way you look at it. And the fact that minorities are incarcerated at a higher rate that whites even though those groups sell and use drugs at similar rates to whites speaks to the racially discriminatory component in drug law enforcement

[Clone]

Having lived near some projects for 10 years and being a dog walker, if you ever want to discuss what color the drivers of the cars who cruise in to buy crack and pot are? I can tell you.

Being married to a black man, if you need me to, I can thoroughly explain the police charges called: "Walking while black."

Having lived in a major metropolitan area and seeing how many black men are shot dead on the sidewalks by the cops and how few whites, I can honestly tell you tv guy has his head where the sun don't shine.

Oh, we can talk about the disproportionate number of black drivers are pulled over on the NJ Turnpike due to Racial Profiling which the troopers say they don't use but they just seem to pull over a lot of black people.

[tvguy]

Fraction of people incarcerated for a drug offence in state prisons that are black or Hispanic, although those groups sell and use drugs at similar rates to whites: 2/3 YOU HEAR THAT TVguy?

Yeah I hear it. Of course to you that means that whitey targets blacks. And it has nothing to do with the violent crack heads in mostly black inner city Ghettos?

I say it's a little of one and a lot of the other.

Could it possibly be true that blacks simply commit more crime than whites Cletus? because that would explain the lopsided ratio right?

Why don't you forget about about drugs and tell me what percent of prisoners who committed violent crimes are black.
You WILL find out it is HALF. How do ya splain that Lucy? Are white cops and DA's targeting blacks for violent crimes and ignoring the whites like they allegedly do with drugs?

I wont forget about drugs to focus on minorities because the OP is about drugs. I will acknowledge that blacks and Hispanics populate the prisons and the ghettos of this country and that poverty, lack of education and job skills all contribute to the higher rate of incarceration of these mostly inner city minorities. I don't want to have another black people are more criminally disposed than white people discussion with you. Twenty of those discussions is probably enough. The point I am making is that the war on drugs is a waste, every way you look at it. And the fact that minorities are incarcerated at a higher rate that white even though those groups sell and use drugs at similar rates to whites speaks to the racially discriminatory component in drug law enforcement

wait a tic big guy YOU were the one who posted this..

The US accounts for 5% of the worlds's poulation, but 25% of the world's prisoners. We owe that distinction to the war on drugs,


You posted this statement about why we have 25% of the worlds prisoners. But I'm not allowed to dispute that?:wacko:

I will acknowledge that blacks and Hispanics populate the prisons and the ghettos of this country and that poverty, lack of education and job skills all contribute to the higher rate of incarceration of these mostly inner city minorities.

And I totally agree with the reasons. And that actually makes my point that drugs are NOT the only reason we owe the distinction of having 25% of the world prisoners

I don't want to have another black people are more criminally disposed than white people discussion with you. Twenty of those discussions is probably enough.

I have never said that Cletus, NEVER. You shouldn't paraphrase me and actually change what I have said.
I never said " black people are more disposed to do anything. Yhat's not the same thing as when I say on average more blacks commit crimes.They do and it's because of the reasons you listed NOT BECAUSE black people are more criminally disposed
YOU are making it sound racial. Not me.

Damn 20 times and you still don't get what I'm saying???

[cletus1]

Fraction of people incarcerated for a drug offence in state prisons that are black or Hispanic, although those groups sell and use drugs at similar rates to whites: 2/3 YOU HEAR THAT TVguy?

Yeah I hear it. Of course to you that means that whitey targets blacks. And it has nothing to do with the violent crack heads in mostly black inner city Ghettos?

I say it's a little of one and a lot of the other.

Could it possibly be true that blacks simply commit more crime than whites Cletus? because that would explain the lopsided ratio right?

Why don't you forget about about drugs and tell me what percent of prisoners who committed violent crimes are black.
You WILL find out it is HALF. How do ya splain that Lucy? Are white cops and DA's targeting blacks for violent crimes and ignoring the whites like they allegedly do with drugs?

I wont forget about drugs to focus on minorities because the OP is about drugs. I will acknowledge that blacks and Hispanics populate the prisons and the ghettos of this country and that poverty, lack of education and job skills all contribute to the higher rate of incarceration of these mostly inner city minorities. I don't want to have another black people are more criminally disposed than white people discussion with you. Twenty of those discussions is probably enough. The point I am making is that the war on drugs is a waste, every way you look at it. And the fact that minorities are incarcerated at a higher rate that white even though those groups sell and use drugs at similar rates to whites speaks to the racially discriminatory component in drug law enforcement

wait a tic big guy YOU were the one who posted this..

The US accounts for 5% of the worlds's poulation, but 25% of the world's prisoners. We owe that distinction to the war on drugs,


You posted this statement about why we have 25% of the worlds prisoners. But I'm not allowed to dispute that?:wacko:

Sure you are allowed to dispute those numbers and or to offer a reason why you think they may be right or wrong. The point is that the US incarcerates more of its citizens that any other country in the world. That is a FACT.

The reason that we are number one is that we send people to jail for chicken shit drug offences and we send mid level dealers to jail to serve ridiculously long sentences.

I remember the reasons that you have put forward as to why the US is the world's number one incarcerator of its citizens. You blame it on the high level of crime committed by minorities when that is not the reason at all. The numbers don't work. The fact that blacks make up a large percentage of the prison population (estimates at 45%) does not explain why the totals are so high. It simply shows we incarcerate blacks and Hispanics at a higher rate than whites. Your argument that other countries don't have the same minorities that commit crimes fails as a valid argument. It is basically saying that if we did not have blacks and Mexicans committing so many crimes that we would not be the lockup champions of the world. Not True.

The war on drugs is the reason, but yes blacks and Hispanics make up half of the drug offenders in jail. So is it drug laws that made us the world biggest imprison-er or the fact that more minorities get locked up for drugs?

[illcommandante]

They are a pack of Narcs. A pack of worthless shits who have found a made up purpose in life to keep the off the street corners, their alcoholic brothers are begging on. They make their way off the misery of others. And they fight for laws to keep themselve well paid, and richly retired. Fuck 'em. Shoot 'em at will. You have God's permission.