Posts: 12,489
Threads: 371
Joined: Mar 2010
02-24-2012, 08:13 PM
(This post was last modified: 02-24-2012, 08:14 PM by Wonky. Edited 1 time in total.)
Ponder posted a topic:
"I'm sorry that the dog died".
Please note: I'm not picking on ponder...it was a quote I think. And I wouldn't criticize him anyway: My own grammar skills are awful at best. Spelling worse.
I'm wondering about the "that" in the sentence. Would it not be equally effective to say "I'm sorry the dog died"?
And if this is true, what is the problem here? Is "that" redundant? Or is there a problem.
Is it akin to asking, "where are you at"?
And finally, is there a grammatical rule or definition for this.
This stuff fascinates me but I never had the discipline to to hunker down and study. Always thought if I wrote the GREAT AMERICAN NOVEL and editor would clean it up for me.
Guess what? Never wrote the Great American Novel. Never came close. (Not for lack of trying). My only talent (tiny) is telling a decent campfire story.
Posts: 27,872
Threads: 1,668
Joined: Sep 2009
It was a quote from the guy in court, and I thought it made a good title. I don't think it was the title that went with the article necessarily, I often pick something out that I think might make a catchier or more interesting title - I often think I could do a better job than the newspapers of writing headlines, too.
Posts: 12,489
Threads: 371
Joined: Mar 2010
(02-24-2012, 08:17 PM)PonderThis Wrote: It was a quote from the guy in court, and I thought it made a good title. I don't think it was the title that went with the article necessarily, I often pick something out that I think might make a catchier or more interesting title - I often think I could do a better job than the newspapers of writing headlines, too.
Well I couldn't. As confessed, I'm woefully ignorant about grammar. I am ashamed that at my advanced age I did not buckle down and do some study.
But my question to Clone was a bit different. Not about writing headlines but about grammar. Clone seems to be our go-to-girl for this stuff.
HEY CLONE, CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW?
Posts: 18,298
Threads: 867
Joined: Mar 2011
Maybe he wanted something/someone to die but not the dog.
so "I'm sorry that the dog died and not the guy who owned the dog" would be his complete thought.
Posts: 9,049
Threads: 1,479
Joined: Dec 2011
Wonky, prepositions are sorely misused....'that' being used almost as much as 'to'.
"I'm sorry the dog died" is correct.
I don't remember the exact rule, sorry!
Posts: 12,489
Threads: 371
Joined: Mar 2010
(02-24-2012, 08:24 PM)chuck white Wrote: Maybe he wanted something/someone to die but not the dog.
so "I'm sorry that the dog died and not the guy who owned the dog" would be his complete thought.
Could be. But wouldn't "I'm so sorry the dog died, not the guy who owned the dog" be as clear?
Posts: 27,872
Threads: 1,668
Joined: Sep 2009
Neither one of these sounded (or looked) like the sharpest tools in the box, if you know what I mean.
Posts: 18,298
Threads: 867
Joined: Mar 2011
(02-24-2012, 08:29 PM)Wonky Wrote: (02-24-2012, 08:24 PM)chuck white Wrote: Maybe he wanted something/someone to die but not the dog.
so "I'm sorry that the dog died and not the guy who owned the dog" would be his complete thought.
Could be. But wouldn't "I'm so sorry the dog died, not the guy who owned the dog" be as clear?
Yes, but the guy who owned the dog, didn't die.
So
"I'm sorry that, the dog died"
would be the proper response.
Posts: 14,423
Threads: 1,395
Joined: Mar 2009
So much lost in the pursuit of a singular definition .
Posts: 12,489
Threads: 371
Joined: Mar 2010
(02-24-2012, 08:29 PM)Clone Wrote: Wonky, prepositions are sorely misused....'that' being used almost as much as 'to'.
"I'm sorry the dog died" is correct.
I don't remember the exact rule, sorry!
Thanks Clone. I'm taking your word for it. (But Chuck makes a compelling argument...I just never know if he is pulling my leg or not).
About "the rules". I swear some are lost to antiquity. I often wonder if we simply parrot the people we know to have been schooled. Works for me...if I'm aware enough to know about it. And our verbal language can be important in how others perceive us.
Posts: 9,049
Threads: 1,479
Joined: Dec 2011
'I'm sorry the dog died."
"I'm sorry winter is almost over."
"I'm sorry you feel I didn't go the extra mile."
'I'm sorry; that is not saying very much."
"I'm sorry...that sure looked like fried ice cream!"
Posts: 12,489
Threads: 371
Joined: Mar 2010
(02-24-2012, 08:49 PM)Clone Wrote: 'I'm sorry the dog died."
"I'm sorry winter is almost over."
"I'm sorry you feel I didn't go the extra mile."
'I'm sorry; that is not saying very much."
"I'm sorry...that sure looked like fried ice cream!"
Thanks. I'm understanding the usage even If I don't understand why.
Posts: 912
Threads: 10
Joined: May 2011
that/T?Hat/
Pronoun: Used to identify a specific person or thing observed by the speaker: "that's his wife over there".
Adjective: Used to identify a specific person or thing observed or heard by the speaker: "look at that man".
Adverb: To such a degree; so: "I would not go that far".
Conjunction: Introducing a subordinate clause expressing a statement or hypothesis: "she said that she was satisfied".
Synonyms:
pronoun; it - which - who - what - this - that one
adjective; such
adverb; so - thus - as
conjunction; so - if - in order that - lest - so that - in order to
(Me likey Internet, me learn lots )
Posts: 9,049
Threads: 1,479
Joined: Dec 2011
Oh good! I've been usurped!
Posts: 912
Threads: 10
Joined: May 2011
(02-24-2012, 10:10 PM)Clone Wrote: Oh good! I've been usurped!
Yeah, but it took Google to do it.
Posts: 41,856
Threads: 560
Joined: Mar 2009
(02-24-2012, 08:29 PM)Clone Wrote: Wonky, prepositions are sorely misused....'that' being used almost as much as 'to'.
"I'm sorry the dog died" is correct.
I don't remember the exact rule, sorry!
Rules
Bummer the pooch is pushin posies
itsa Drag dat da doggie is sportin a toe tag
It's a bitch that the bitch is sleeping with the fishes
Too bad Fido is sleepin in the dirt bed
sorry but Rovers days be over
Posts: 18,298
Threads: 867
Joined: Mar 2011
(02-24-2012, 08:44 PM)Wonky Wrote: (But Chuck makes a compelling argument...I just never know if he is pulling my leg or not).
Thank you, I'm flattered.
Posts: 12,489
Threads: 371
Joined: Mar 2010
(02-24-2012, 10:49 PM)chuck white Wrote: (02-24-2012, 08:44 PM)Wonky Wrote: (But Chuck makes a compelling argument...I just never know if he is pulling my leg or not).
Thank you, I'm flattered.
Thank you? Thank you? Like hell! You promised coffee and donuts if I would post that.
Posts: 18,298
Threads: 867
Joined: Mar 2011
(03-03-2012, 08:57 AM)Wonky Wrote: (02-24-2012, 10:49 PM)chuck white Wrote: (02-24-2012, 08:44 PM)Wonky Wrote: (But Chuck makes a compelling argument...I just never know if he is pulling my leg or not).
Thank you, I'm flattered.
Thank you? Thank you? Like hell! You promised coffee and donuts if I would post that.
The cash I e-mailed you wasn't good enough.
Posts: 15,666
Threads: 422
Joined: Feb 2009
(03-03-2012, 08:57 AM)Wonky Wrote: (02-24-2012, 10:49 PM)chuck white Wrote: (02-24-2012, 08:44 PM)Wonky Wrote: (But Chuck makes a compelling argument...I just never know if he is pulling my leg or not).
Thank you, I'm flattered.
Thank you? Thank you? Like hell! You promised coffee and donuts if I would post that. donut funnies are no longer allowed under the new site rules because of a certain whining crybaby. Just thought you'd like to know.
|