Murder of Innocents

[Clone]

Yeah, right. Fu*k up this guy's body and his mind, then turn him over to the Afghanistanis. Right.


http://news.yahoo.com/lawyer-afghanistan...17201.html

SEATTLE (AP) — The U.S. soldier accused of slaughtering 16 Afghan villagers last weekend had been reluctant to leave on his fourth deployment and surprised to be deployed to Afghanistan, where soldiers at his base were shaken by the serious injury of a comrade a day before the shooting rampage, his lawyer said Thursday.

"We have been informed that at this small base that he was at, somebody was gravely injured the day before the alleged incident — gravely injured, and that affected all of the soldiers," said the lawyer, John Henry Browne.

Browne offered no other details of the incident, and it isn't clear whether it prompted the horrific middle-of-the-night attack. The soldier had been injured twice during his three previous deployments to Iraq, and he was loath to go to Afghanistan to begin with, Browne said.

Browne declined to release his client's name, citing concerns for the soldier's family, which is under protection on Joint Base Lewis-McChord, near Tacoma. But he said the soldier has two young children, ages 3 and 4.

The soldier, a 38-year-old father of two who is originally from the Midwest, deployed last December with the 3rd Stryker Brigade, and on Feb. 1 was attached to a "village stability operation." Browne described him as highly decorated and said he had once been nominated for a Bronze Star, which he did not receive.

But he did say that the soldier and his family thought he was done fighting. During tours in Iraq, the soldier suffered a concussive head injury in a car accident caused by a roadside bomb, Browne said, and he suffered a battle-related injury that resulted in surgery to remove part of his foot.

He was screened by health officials after the head injury before he redeployed, Browne said. He did not know if his client had been suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder, but said it could be an issue at trial if experts believe it's relevant.

He and the rest of his brigade had initially been told they wouldn't have to go to Afghanistan, Browne said.

Browne and his co-counsel, Emma Scanlan, said they had met with the soldier's wife and other family members, and Browne said he spoke briefly by phone with the soldier, whom he described as stunned and distant.

His family was shocked: "They were totally shocked," he said. "He's never said anything antagonistic about Muslims. He's in general very mild-mannered."

Browne said he knew little of the facts of the shooting, but disputed reports that a combination of alcohol, stress and domestic issues caused him to snap. He said the family said they were unaware of any drinking problem, and described the couple's marriage as "fabulous."

The soldier is suspected of going on a shooting rampage in villages near his base in southern Afghanistan early Sunday, killing nine children and seven other civilians and then burning some of their bodies. The shooting, which followed a controversial Quran-burning incident involving U.S. soldiers, has outraged Afghan officials.

The suspect was flown out of Afghanistan on Wednesday evening to what officials describe as a pretrial confinement facility in Kuwait. Officials have anonymously described him as a father of two who has been in the military for 11 years. He has served three tours in Iraq and began his first deployment to Afghanistan in December.

[chuck white]

Don't we have an agreement with the Afganistan government, that Nato forces would be tried for any crimes back in their country of orgin?

[PonderThis]

Yes, we do. However, didn't we install that puppet government anyway? How valid is any agreement with them, in the minds of the Afghani people, anyway?

[Scrapper]

I'm really torn on this one. My first thought was that he should be tried there. If it was one of their people... and he had done the same thing here... Americans would be demanding he be tried here. On the other hand, he is obviously sick... and I'm sure they will make an example of him. There will be nothing 'fair' about a trial there. Yet, what justice will the dead and their families see? The whole situation is horrible.

[Wonky]

Wow!
This is enough to make Kafka, Catch 22, and Lenny Bruce blink.

We are not even sure who our enemy is. Imagine for instance, a rogue rifleman in the 2nd World War who does something like this. And then is turned over to the Nazi's for trial. No, you can't.

Our enemy is hiding with the enemy? Oh no: Our enemy is distinctly different but just looks the same. Our enemy is from no nation, but recruited from militants of some kind of sect. Or many sects.

Life is hard for our troops: When a guy goes mad, he doesn't even know who the hell to kill.

Maybe we should pull back, regroup, and let the enemy come to us. At least we would know who to kill. We could even call it defense.

[chuck white]

Yes, we do. However, didn't we install that puppet government anyway? How valid is any agreement with them, in the minds of the Afghani people, anyway?

I don't know if "We" installed a puppet government in Afghanistan, but it was probably the same people who installed a puppet government here in the states.

[PonderThis]

Yes, we do. However, didn't we install that puppet government anyway? How valid is any agreement with them, in the minds of the Afghani people, anyway?

I don't know if "We" installed a puppet government in Afghanistan, but it was probably the same people who installed a puppet government here in the states.

Excellent point.

[PonderThis]

Maybe we should pull back, regroup, and let the enemy come to us. At least we would know who to kill. We could even call it defense.

And what a novel idea that is.

[Simon Peter]

Maybe we should pull back, regroup, and let the enemy come to us. At least we would know who to kill. We could even call it defense.

When this enemy comes to us it is on a suicide mission and there is no one left to kill. Then we begin again.................

[PonderThis]

Perhaps we should also quit doing things as a nation that piss others off so much they're willing to kill themselves attacking us then. That's the other part of this nobody's looking at.

[rainylady]

The guy lost his marbles. Insanity defense. Just cause he was standing by a soldier with his leg just blown off doesn't make what he did of any less value. They see that kind of stuff all the time over there. They are supposed to be trained to handle it.

[Tiamat]

I'm really torn on this one. My first thought was that he should be tried there. If it was one of their people... and he had done the same thing here... Americans would be demanding he be tried here. On the other hand, he is obviously sick... and I'm sure they will make an example of him. There will be nothing 'fair' about a trial there. Yet, what justice will the dead and their families see? The whole situation is horrible.

I don't agree. I dont' think the US would demand he be tried there. I think they would demand to try him under US law.

[Scrapper]

I'm really torn on this one. My first thought was that he should be tried there. If it was one of their people... and he had done the same thing here... Americans would be demanding he be tried here. On the other hand, he is obviously sick... and I'm sure they will make an example of him. There will be nothing 'fair' about a trial there. Yet, what justice will the dead and their families see? The whole situation is horrible.

I don't agree. I dont' think the US would demand he be tried there. I think they would demand to try him under US law.

I'm confused, Tia. Perhaps I wasn't clear. I think we are on the same page???
I think if one of THEIR people did the same thing HERE... Americans would demand he be tried in the USA.
Therefore, I am torn about one of OUR guys doing this in THEIR Country... should he be tried THERE or HERE?
I believe THEY will feel there is no justice for the dead and their families if tried HERE. Yet, if tried THERE... a very sick man will just be used as an example.

[cletus1]

Yeah, right. Fu*k up this guy's body and his mind, then turn him over to the Afghanistanis. Right.


http://news.yahoo.com/lawyer-afghanistan...17201.html

SEATTLE (AP) — The U.S. soldier accused of slaughtering 16 Afghan villagers last weekend had been reluctant to leave on his fourth deployment and surprised to be deployed to Afghanistan, where soldiers at his base were shaken by the serious injury of a comrade a day before the shooting rampage, his lawyer said Thursday.

"We have been informed that at this small base that he was at, somebody was gravely injured the day before the alleged incident — gravely injured, and that affected all of the soldiers," said the lawyer, John Henry Browne.

Browne offered no other details of the incident, and it isn't clear whether it prompted the horrific middle-of-the-night attack. The soldier had been injured twice during his three previous deployments to Iraq, and he was loath to go to Afghanistan to begin with, Browne said.

Browne declined to release his client's name, citing concerns for the soldier's family, which is under protection on Joint Base Lewis-McChord, near Tacoma. But he said the soldier has two young children, ages 3 and 4.

The soldier, a 38-year-old father of two who is originally from the Midwest, deployed last December with the 3rd Stryker Brigade, and on Feb. 1 was attached to a "village stability operation." Browne described him as highly decorated and said he had once been nominated for a Bronze Star, which he did not receive.

But he did say that the soldier and his family thought he was done fighting. During tours in Iraq, the soldier suffered a concussive head injury in a car accident caused by a roadside bomb, Browne said, and he suffered a battle-related injury that resulted in surgery to remove part of his foot.

He was screened by health officials after the head injury before he redeployed, Browne said. He did not know if his client had been suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder, but said it could be an issue at trial if experts believe it's relevant.

He and the rest of his brigade had initially been told they wouldn't have to go to Afghanistan, Browne said.

Browne and his co-counsel, Emma Scanlan, said they had met with the soldier's wife and other family members, and Browne said he spoke briefly by phone with the soldier, whom he described as stunned and distant.

His family was shocked: "They were totally shocked," he said. "He's never said anything antagonistic about Muslims. He's in general very mild-mannered."

Browne said he knew little of the facts of the shooting, but disputed reports that a combination of alcohol, stress and domestic issues caused him to snap. He said the family said they were unaware of any drinking problem, and described the couple's marriage as "fabulous."

The soldier is suspected of going on a shooting rampage in villages near his base in southern Afghanistan early Sunday, killing nine children and seven other civilians and then burning some of their bodies. The shooting, which followed a controversial Quran-burning incident involving U.S. soldiers, has outraged Afghan officials.

The suspect was flown out of Afghanistan on Wednesday evening to what officials describe as a pretrial confinement facility in Kuwait. Officials have anonymously described him as a father of two who has been in the military for 11 years. He has served three tours in Iraq and began his first deployment to Afghanistan in December.

Then extenuating circumstances will be raised at the trial. Lets face it, he murdered civilians, including women and children not Taliban. He flipped out, so what. But now the excuses for this hideous crime will pour in. Why, because he is a soldier. Well I have news for you he is a murdering criminal too.

Perhaps your son being in Afghanistan taints your outlook. Everyone knows the solider will not be turned over to the government in Afghanistan. But the whole incident will put American hypocrisy on stage for the world to see. And I agree with Larry, your previous post does come across bigoted as hell and inserting the word Taliban does not change that one bit. I Know you are no bigot, and I'm sorry to say this, but your previous post looks callused as hell. Its something I would expect to read from people that think Afghan lives are less valuable then America solider lives.

[Clone]

Then extenuating circumstances will be raised at the trial. Lets face it, he murdered civilians, including women and children not Taliban. He flipped out, so what. But now the excuses for this hideous crime will pour in. Why, because he is a soldier. Well I have news for you he is a murdering criminal too.

Perhaps your son being in Afghanistan taints your outlook. Everyone knows the solider will not be turned over to the government in Afghanistan. But the whole incident will put American hypocrisy on stage for the world to see. And I agree with Larry, your previous post does come across bigoted as hell and inserting the word Taliban does not change that one bit. I Know you are no bigot, and I'm sorry to say this, but your previous post looks callused as hell. Its something I would expect to read from people that think Afghan lives are less valuable then America solider lives.

Why would you be sorry to say that? Sounds like 'with all due respect'.

I just re-read the whole thread and I can see your point.
It was a miserable attempt to communicate my angst.
I hate this 'war' and I hate what the military does to it's troops.
Your criticisim is noted and taken, your accusations regarding my intent are unfair, however.

[Larry]

This is a failure of the Military. His Unit, his Commanders, all of them. After the head injury, and going through domestic problems, he should have NEVER BEEN THERE. The funny thing is, if he would have been HERE, and wiped out his ex wifes family, we wouldn't even question his guilt or punishment.

[PonderThis]

It's a moral failure of the United States government to fight wars outside our own borders, and this is merely a symptom of that.

[illcommandante]

Do the recruiter who forged his papers, or the judge who signed his waiver, bear any responsibility, here?

[chuck white]

We're there to get Osama.
We shouldn't leave till we do

[Valuesize]

We're there to get Osama.
We shouldn't leave till we do

Pretty sure we got him already, not sure he is swimming with the fish though....