DHS won't explain its order of 450 million hollow point bullets
#1
After 9/11, the United States government created the Department of Homeland Security to prevent future acts of terrorism and deal with other domestic issues. Now in order to keep doing such, the agency is asking for 450 million hollow point bullets.
The DHS has signed off on an “indefinite delivery” from defense contractors ATK that will include, for some reason, nearly 500 million high-power ammunition for .40 caliber firearms. The department has yet to discuss why they are ordering such a massive bevy of bullets for an agency that has limited need domestically for doing harm, but they say they expect to continue receiving shipments from the manufacturer for the next five years, during which they plan to blow through enough ammunition to execute more people than there are in the entire United States. Laughing

http://rt.com/usa/news/dhs-million-point...nment-179/
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#2
I was discussing this with someone else and their comment was that DHS does a lot of target practicing. Shooting hollow points for target practice doesn't make any sense at all.

There are a couple of theories about it. One that they have excess money left in their budget and want to spend it before the year ends so that they don't get shorted on money next year. The other is that they are deliberately buying up the market supply. Another theorizes that they are stocking up for possible civil unrest.

I don't know what they are doing but it doesn't make a lot of sense and they should be able to provide a reasonable explanation.

I don't have a .40 so I am not worried about any shortages. I just make sure that I have plenty of what I need. BOMC

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#3
(04-04-2012, 02:03 PM)imaham Wrote: I was discussing this with someone else and their comment was that DHS does a lot of target practicing. Shooting hollow points for target practice doesn't make any sense at all.

There are a couple of theories about it. One that they have excess money left in their budget and want to spend it before the year ends so that they don't get shorted on money next year. The other is that they are deliberately buying up the market supply. Another theorizes that they are stocking up for possible civil unrest.

I don't know what they are doing but it doesn't make a lot of sense and they should be able to provide a reasonable explanation.

I don't have a .40 so I am not worried about any shortages. I just make sure that I have plenty of what I need. BOMC

ATK has closed down 1 manufacturing plant and is scheduled to lay off hundreds more employees. I think this is the reason. I bet if we looked into what senators are invested in ATK, then we could make a more educated guess. I bet Kerry is heavily invested in ATK.

Besides, what the hell good is that much pistol ammo going to do them when people have .50 bmgs and Springfield socom 2s?
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#4
Quote:Imaham.. I was discussing this with someone else and their comment was that DHS does a lot of target practicing. Shooting hollow points for target practice doesn't make any sense at all.

Why not?
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#5
(04-04-2012, 02:03 PM)imaham Wrote: I was discussing this with someone else and their comment was that DHS does a lot of target practicing. Shooting hollow points for target practice doesn't make any sense at all.

There are a couple of theories about it. One that they have excess money left in their budget and want to spend it before the year ends so that they don't get shorted on money next year. The other is that they are deliberately buying up the market supply. Another theorizes that they are stocking up for possible civil unrest.

I don't know what they are doing but it doesn't make a lot of sense and they should be able to provide a reasonable explanation.

I don't have a .40 so I am not worried about any shortages. I just make sure that I have plenty of what I need. BOMC
There is a discussion on PSalms going on in my Spiritual thoughts thread. One of the main themes in Psalms is they who lay traps and dig hols for others to fall into end up ensnared themselves. Considering how much tech has provided as far as weaponry and protection in one respect there is some truth to being less of a warrior than a traditional warrior who is close enough to their enemy to see the look in their eyes as they die. Then there is the whole thing about Gideon and his battles. I reckon any sort of military /DHS component used on US citizens in order to take the next step into Totalitarian Rule is doomed to fail. AS hard as the Gub and those who hold science up as religion try to scare us into believing they can use machines and stuff and win the battle over the Human Soul , even they are dependent upon YHVH for their breath and the ability to even lift a finger. This is high drama and everybody is going to get exactly what they deserve . There will be no doubt and no defense for the wicked. Just look at Football and how on any given day things can go one way or another. Those in high places with all the tech toys are going to have the rug pulled out from under them. I wonder who one might find in a 7-11 freezer on display when the gub collapses ?[Image: wizardstirringpot.gif].
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#6
(04-04-2012, 04:01 PM)tvguy Wrote:
Quote:Imaham.. I was discussing this with someone else and their comment was that DHS does a lot of target practicing. Shooting hollow points for target practice doesn't make any sense at all.

Why not?

Look, just trust the agency.
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#7
They are buying the bullets to keep the supply short. They want to prevent us (US citizens) ,from getting them.
I started making wooden bullets instead.
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#8
(04-04-2012, 04:01 PM)tvguy Wrote:
Quote:Imaham.. I was discussing this with someone else and their comment was that DHS does a lot of target practicing. Shooting hollow points for target practice doesn't make any sense at all.

Why not?
Hollow bullets are made for one thing and one thing only.

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#9
Less lead in the bullets, the cheapskates.

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#10
(04-04-2012, 09:07 PM)chuck white Wrote: Less lead in the bullets, the cheapskates.

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Copper as well.

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#11
(04-04-2012, 04:01 PM)tvguy Wrote:
Quote:Imaham.. I was discussing this with someone else and their comment was that DHS does a lot of target practicing. Shooting hollow points for target practice doesn't make any sense at all.

Why not?

Because they are much more expensive than conventional rounds that will punch a hole in paper just as well.

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#12
This is a Larry question
I suspect that a hollow point is safer bullet at a range, they must stop the bullet from exiting the building.
Shot into sandbags or whatever they put in the back of the target, I believe hollow points would stop while the solid bullets would go through.


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#13
Oh for God's sakes Chuck . And BTW I want more buttons.
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#14
Hollow points are generally more destructive to tissue. They "star out" and "mushroom" in diameter much more easily than conventional hardball ammo, thereby creating a larger area of damage and tearing up more of the soft tissue target. A most effective method of making sure your target goes down and stays that way.
But hollowpoints are usually much more expensive due to increased engineering efforts. It is not simply drilling a hole in the front of a hardball round; it is more involved. To use them for "target practice" is not cost effective and very wasteful.(But this is a govt agency, so no one is accountable and they dont care.)
I have about 500 rounds for my .45, 250 for my .40, 150 for my .357 and 1500 for my .22. Most are hardball, but I do have at least 2 magazines full of the hollowpoints for each firearm for dire needs use.
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#15
(04-04-2012, 09:24 PM)imaham Wrote:
(04-04-2012, 04:01 PM)tvguy Wrote:
Quote:Imaham.. I was discussing this with someone else and their comment was that DHS does a lot of target practicing. Shooting hollow points for target practice doesn't make any sense at all.

Why not?

Because they are much more expensive than conventional rounds that will punch a hole in paper just as well.

I didn't realize they were always more expensive. I never really thought about it. The cheap ammo I buy for my assault rifle are hollow point rounds. 7.62X39, AK47 ammo. It's gotta be one of the most inexpensive bullets and most common rounds in the world.
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#16
(04-04-2012, 09:47 PM)Smithcat Wrote: Hollow points are generally more destructive to tissue. They "star out" and "mushroom" in diameter much more easily than conventional hardball ammo, thereby creating a larger area of damage and tearing up more of the soft tissue target. A most effective method of making sure your target goes down and stays that way.
But hollowpoints are usually much more expensive due to increased engineering efforts. It is not simply drilling a hole in the front of a hardball round; it is more involved. To use them for "target practice" is not cost effective and very wasteful.(But this is a govt agency, so no one is accountable and they dont care.)
I have about 500 rounds for my .45, 250 for my .40, 150 for my .357 and 1500 for my .22. Most are hardball, but I do have at least 2 magazines full of the hollowpoints for each firearm for dire needs use.

Whats you point Smithy? Why the hell way in on an issue that has its roots in hand gun violence with some technical goop? Who the fuck cares about the hollow points that you have. We care about your need to have them.
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#17
(04-04-2012, 09:47 PM)Smithcat Wrote: Hollow points are generally more destructive to tissue. They "star out" and "mushroom" in diameter much more easily than conventional hardball ammo, thereby creating a larger area of damage and tearing up more of the soft tissue target. A most effective method of making sure your target goes down and stays that way.
But hollowpoints are usually much more expensive due to increased engineering efforts. It is not simply drilling a hole in the front of a hardball round; it is more involved. To use them for "target practice" is not cost effective and very wasteful.(But this is a govt agency, so no one is accountable and they dont care.)
I have about 500 rounds for my .45, 250 for my .40, 150 for my .357 and 1500 for my .22. Most are hardball, but I do have at least 2 magazines full of the hollowpoints for each firearm for dire needs use.

Thanks for a very adequate and concise explanation. I most certainly understand DHS using HP rounds for conventional carry but as you said, using them for target practice is ridicules. Chuck is also correct that conventional ball rounds are more prone to penetrate but common sense would tell one that at a range, particularly one used by government agencies, I seriously doubt that they would be using a facility that would permit a round to go through a wall.

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#18
(04-04-2012, 09:47 PM)Smithcat Wrote: Hollow points are generally more destructive to tissue. They "star out" and "mushroom" in diameter much more easily than conventional hardball ammo, thereby creating a larger area of damage and tearing up more of the soft tissue target. A most effective method of making sure your target goes down and stays that way.
But hollowpoints are usually much more expensive due to increased engineering efforts. It is not simply drilling a hole in the front of a hardball round; it is more involved. To use them for "target practice" is not cost effective and very wasteful.(But this is a govt agency, so no one is accountable and they dont care.)
I have about 500 rounds for my .45, 250 for my .40, 150 for my .357 and 1500 for my .22. Most are hardball, but I do have at least 2 magazines full of the hollowpoints for each firearm for dire needs use.

Well MAYBE they are buying hollow points because no one is accountable and they don't care. Or maybe on the scale that they are ordering it's possible that they aren't as expensive as you think?
Like I said the absolute cheapest rounds I've ever bought for any rifle other than a 22 are hollow points.
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#19
(04-04-2012, 09:47 PM)Smithcat Wrote: ......
I have about 500 rounds for my .45, 250 for my .40, 150 for my .357 and 1500 for my .22. Most are hardball, but I do have at least 2 magazines full of the hollowpoints for each firearm for dire needs use.

You and Ponder stocking up on guns.
I got a look at Ponder's assault rifle.
[Image: 092911_rg_LEGOGOWLancer_01.jpg]

You can check the specs here

Ponder's Gun an Ammo Store



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#20
(04-04-2012, 09:49 PM)tvguy Wrote:
(04-04-2012, 09:24 PM)imaham Wrote:
(04-04-2012, 04:01 PM)tvguy Wrote:
Quote:Imaham.. I was discussing this with someone else and their comment was that DHS does a lot of target practicing. Shooting hollow points for target practice doesn't make any sense at all.

Why not?

Because they are much more expensive than conventional rounds that will punch a hole in paper just as well.

I didn't realize they were always more expensive. I never really thought about it. The cheap ammo I buy for my assault rifle are hollow point rounds. 7.62X39, AK47 ammo. It's gotta be one of the most inexpensive bullets and most common rounds in the world.

That isn't typically the case with handgun ammo, especially with .40 caliber. You can see pricing here (http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ItemListi...?catid=647) and notice that the JHP rounds are in quantities of 25 while the conventional is typically in quantities of 50. I believe that this particular manufacturer makes Federal rounds and the typical law enforcement round from Federal is the Hydra-Shok. If that is what they are buying it is some expensive ammo.
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